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Multiversal+ Bleach CRT

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Deceived3596 said:
You're hyper fixating on the statement not realizing the contextual foundation, when Yhwach references "it is simply because I was not there", he isn't saying that in the sense his ability didn't have enough range to effect Ichigo, he's saying that in the sense that he didn't have the ability to manipulate the future because he's only recently gain the ability to do so after absorbing the Soul King. Hence him not really being "there".
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Okay, but can't expect me to just accept such an interpretation just because you say it to me, no? I am not persuaded that this is the best way to interpret what he is saying. Even the other aspect of what he says "My power is no different from yours, you are able to influence the one instant your eyes can see, I am able to influence the entirety of fate that mine see" could easily work within the framework of his ability to affect the fate of events in front of him.

Deceived3596 said:
Yeah, we actually do, with his capabilities, Yhwach is stated capable of destroying all Bankai's in the future. This would include Bankai's from characters who aren't even near Yhwach like Azashiro who resides in Muken or even those who exist in different dimensions like Ukitake who resides in the Hell dimension after his death early on in the arc (I'll provide scans of those later when I create my post).
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I think the credibility is pretty suspect given that he was hit by multiple Bankai in the future after he said this, and while we could take it literally and extrapolate it to other things, do we have an indication that random people across the globe just had their Bankais destroyed from a distance?

Deceived3596 said:
I mean I'm going to prove that these structures actually exist, not that they exist within the realms of chance or ambiguity.
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Okay.
 
Deceived3596 said:
They do exist, them being contextually considered as "possibilities" when examined under Yhwach's vision isn't an innate counter to them actually existing.
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I will wait but just know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, the consequences of your claim means that their are infinite versions of the characters physically existing in another place, I have read bleach and unless I read a different one I do not think that is the case at all.
Shmooply said:
Dunno why is Pain bringing up his thread when it has nothing to do with the CRT, it's just requesting for some broken scans to be replaced.
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same thing that can be addressed here since it is literally about the same ability
 
Deagonx said:
I think the credibility is pretty suspect given that he was hit by multiple Bankai in the future after he said this, and while we could take it literally and extrapolate it to other things, do we have an indication that random people across the globe just had their Bankais destroyed from a distance?
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?? The only bankai that has ever hit him is Ichigo's after tsukishima created a new timeline to fix his bankai
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
?? The only bankai that has ever hit him is Ichigo's after tsukishima created a new timeline to fix his bankai
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My mistake, there was an illusory Bankai I forgot about. Regardless, that entire sequence casts a lot of doubt on how literally we should interpret those abilities, and without concrete evidence of him destroying a bankai a world away, assuming that the statement that he "destroyed all bankai in the future" shouldn't be interpreted as him somehow universally destroying all Bankai in existence if there isn't concrete evidence that this is the case.

There are very clear and concrete limitations on his abilities even in the best of circumstances. For instance, he can't just select a future where Ichigo spontaneously dies of a heart attack.
 
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Deagonx said:
Okay, but can't expect me to just accept such an interpretation just because you say it to me, no? I am not persuaded that this is the best way to interpret what he is saying. Even the other aspect of what he says "My power is no different from yours, you are able to influence the one instant your eyes can see, I am able to influence the entirety of fate that mine see" could easily work within the framework of his ability to affect the fate of events in front of him.
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I'm not asking you to accept the interpretation as is, that's why I'm saying I'll explain everything in-depth later, because I'm not providing that context currently.

Deagonx said:
I think the credibility is pretty suspect given that he was hit by multiple Bankai in the future after he said this, and while we could take it literally and extrapolate it to other things, do we have an indication that random people across the globe just had their Bankais destroyed from a distance?
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That was because Aizen was affecting his ability to see and manipulate the future with his Shikai, which was placed on him before he gained the ability to manipulate the future. He didn't actually do this feat but it's directly implied that he's capable of such feats because of his statement. Unless you believe Yhwach was lying or doesn't know the capabilities of his own ability.

We have indication that he can destroy all bankais in the future, this would include those that exist outside his physical sphere of influence. You would need to provide evidence to the contrary because the statement itself necessarily implies he's capable of affecting bankais outside of his physical sphere of influence.

PrinceofPein said:
I will wait but just know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, the consequences of your claim means that their are infinite versions of the characters physically existing in another place, I have read bleach and unless I read a different one I do not think that is the case at all.
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That wouldn't be an inherent quality of having an infinite amount of separate timelines but I'll explain why in more depth later on.
 
Duedate8898 said:
What's being argued here now?
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Well bleach has infinite timelines, I guess
Deceived3596 said:
That wouldn't be an inherent quality of having an infinite amount of separate timelines but I'll explain why in more depth later on.
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That is literally what your scan says, but well let me wait for your explanation

Also the whole destroyed bankai in the future does not really matter as that is still not a 2-A level fate manipulation
 
Deceived3596 said:
That was because Aizen was affecting his ability to see and manipulate the future with his Shikai, which was placed on him before he gained the ability to manipulate the future. He didn't actually do this feat but it's directly implied that he's capable of such feats because of his statement. Unless you believe Yhwach was lying or doesn't know the capabilities of his own ability.
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Still don't know what you're talking about fully, but in this fight specifcally we're directly shown that Yhwach's vision is fallible. So there is room to argue that while he acts like he knows everything, his every word doesn't have to be taken with gospel and could use more evidence to consider what he says conclusive. Aizen and Uuryu are the best examples
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
that was not a bankai either...
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I'm not talking about Suigetsu.

Deceived3596 said:
He didn't actually do this feat but it's directly implied that he's capable of such feats because of his statement. Unless you believe Yhwach was lying or doesn't know the capabilities of his own ability.

We have indication that he can destroy all bankais in the future, this would include those that exist outside his physical sphere of influence. You would need to provide evidence to the contrary because the statement itself necessarily implies he's capable of affecting bankais outside of his physical sphere of influence.
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We don't just assume that every braggadocios claim from a villain is true at face value and demand it must be countered in order to avoid it being added in a profile as though it were literally true. If this is the sole indication of him being able to affect futures outside his immediate sphere of influence, and it's merely a statement with huge implications that weren't ever reflected in the story, I would say that isn't sufficient.

We know that Yhwach has made exaggerated claims about his ability. For instance, the claim that no ability he has seen or "knows" can affect him or hurt him.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Still don't know what you're talking about fully, but in this fight specifcally we're directly shown that Yhwach's vision is fallible. So there is room to argue that while he acts like he knows everything, his every word doesn't have to be taken with gospel and could use more evidence to consider what he says conclusive. Aizen and Uuryu are the best examples
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His vision is fallible in the sense it can be manipulated by outside sources, not that his capabilities of manipulation of those visions are fallible.

You're assuming a weakness that's never stated or implied to exist.

We have an extremely direct statement that Yhwach can destroy all bankais in the future, we should assume the interpretation which takes the least leaps in logical deduction, which would be assuming that Yhwach, can in fact, destroy all bankais in the future because he's stated capable of doing so without an ounce of contradiction towards it. It's that simple.
 
Deceived3596 said:
We have an extremely direct statement that Yhwach can destroy all bankais in the future, we should assume the interpretation which takes the least leaps in logical deduction, which would be assuming that Yhwach, can in fact, destroy all bankais in the future because he's stated capable of doing so without an ounce of contradiction towards it. It's that simple.
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Assuming things are true without good evidence isn't better just because it is a simple approach. And indeed, there are contradictions for it. Point blank, he cannot just decide what happens in the future without any tethering to his personal powers, abilities, or physical sphere of influence. He cannot simply decide upon a future where all his enemies spontaneously come down with a heart attack. He should be able to instantly defeat anyone, by deciding upon the future in which his first attack lands fatally, but he doesn't.

You're taking a bold claim from a villain to the most literal extent possible despite fairly concrete limitations, and that is not something I can cosign.
 
I'm taking a break from this thread, dealing with Deagonx and Duedate in the same thread just isn't good for my health. This thread was only supposed to be replacing a broken link, the thread should fulfill that purpose. If someone wishes to downgrade the range then create a separate thread, don't derail this one.
 
His vision is also fallible in the sense there are some things he just doesn't see. Like Uuryu shooting him with the still-silver arrow. Not to mention we're also shown how Yhwach destroys Bankai in the future, and it's normally through physically tearing them apart as we see with Ichigo and Renji (renji's shikai not his bankai). So the exact way he destroys all bankai in the future is up in the air, not to mention what Bankai he'd destroy is also up in the air.

Quantu said:
It's evolved into arguing about The Almighty and whether it qualifies for 2-A as per the new standards.
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We got a standard update? What're they now?
 
Deceived3596 said:
I'm taking a break from this thread, dealing with Deagonx and Duedate in the same thread just isn't good for my health
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Putting yourself in the position of making illogical claims or statements that you cannot prove is probably what's damaging your health. Other people pointing it out is not the problem.

Deceived3596 said:
This thread was only supposed to be replacing a broken link, the thread should fulfill that purpose. If someone wishes to downgrade the range then create a separate thread, don't derail this one.
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Threads can evolve to address adjacent issues, and this tackles the current range justification.

Duedate8898 said:
His vision is also fallible in the sense there are some things he just doesn't see. Like Uuryu shooting him with the still-silver arrow. Not to mention we're also shown how Yhwach destroys Bankai in the future, and it's normally through physically tearing them apart as we see with Ichigo and Renji (renji's shikai not his bankai). So the exact way he destroys all bankai in the future is up in the air, not to mention what Bankai he'd destroy is also up in the air.
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Very good point. He's never demonstrated the ability to destroy Bankai like, telephatically or something. So the claim that Deceived is making that he is able -- through Almighty -- to remotely destroy all Bankai in existence through the Almighty further contradicts the established mechanics.

With that said, what do you think we should do here? I think his range should probably be corrected to Universal+ in accordance with the realm-destruction.
 
Deagonx said:
Putting yourself in the position of making illogical claims or statements that you cannot prove is probably what's damaging your health. Other people pointing it out is not the problem.
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Was there really a need to say all that to the dude just saying he needs a break from the thread? Blud’s getting 3 people quoting the same messages of his.

Anyways….since nobody seems keen on pulling the trigger, I’ll make the revision thread so y’all can stop arguing in this one 🗿
 
Duedate8898 said:
We've treated this like a fact for a while now. Yhwach's big explanation for All-Mighty seems like its talking about a timeline that branches at infinite or whatever.
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Yes they are possible futures, then he can pick the possibility he wants and then makes it into a reality, not that there is an infinite timeline in bleach.
Anyway Deceived said he has proof of the said infinite timelines so I will wait for him to provide that
 
Reiner said:
... Shouldn't some create their own CRT with explaination or whatever on why they shouldn't rather than random contextless debates? I am not really a fan of CRTs getting out of their main purpose or track.
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Injustice moment.

Also if I am correct there are 3 CRTs active for this already they needs to be finished before any other CRTs gets created as for 3 CRTs active once for a single verse rule.

This thread should be closed.
 
Anyway, if someone have the scans then just replace the broken links or scans. I'll ask for it's closure or if someone already seeing it, close it anyway.
Deagonx said:
Threads can evolve to address adjacent issues, and this tackles the current range justification.
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No, It's a rule to create proper CRT addressing something with all the relevant scans and issues addressed in the OP.

What OP is asking has no relevance to whatever is being argued, am I supposed to read debates? No.
 
Reiner said:
Anyway, if someone have the scans then just replace the broken links or scans. I'll ask for it's closure or if someone already seeing it, close it anyway.

No, It's a rule to create proper CRT addressing something with all the relevant scans and issues addressed in the OP.

What OP is asking has no relevance to whatever is being argued, am I supposed to read debates? No.
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I got the scans, just trying to stop Imgur from being pissy rn
 
Reiner said:
Anyway, if someone have the scans then just replace the broken links or scans. I'll ask for it's closure or if someone already seeing it, close it anyway.

No, It's a rule to create proper CRT addressing something with all the relevant scans and issues addressed in the OP.

What OP is asking has no relevance to whatever is being argued, am I supposed to read debates? No.
Click to expand...
Maitreya said:
Ok I made the thread. Deceived, Duedate, and Deagon please take a moment to formally gather your positions to lay out so we can hopefully discuss this topic better.

Click to expand...
Since a new thread got made, closing
 
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