Multiple Upgrades to JoJo Part 5 Characters

[Chariot190]

Aerosmith's best feat that I can think of is hitting Nero mid attack, Nero having MFTL attack speed, there's a few issues with that but it's still his best feat.


Lifting Strength doesnt equate to AP. Otherwise every DBZ character would have universal lifting strength, opposed to just a bunch of Class M feats. AP is far more complex than just lifting something, as it involves kinetic energy in the case of the Sex Pistols.

Sex Pistols aren't physically strong in the lifting sense, but it doesnt matter, when actually attacking they're strong as ****. They can kick a bullet hard enough to make it faster and stronger than it would be normally. Why? Probably due to their speed, kinetic energy is directly related to speed. End of the day Sex Pistols are 8-C via physical strength, they can harm 8-C's and even split bullets in half if they want to so it's very clear the force is coming from their raw strength (Not withstanding they can manually richochet the bullets while having them keep them KE, ergo they themselves must be putting forth enough force to not only overpower the bullet's KE but to have it regain said KE in the process). Also the not hurting Trish's body doesnt mean anything because Spice Girl made the bullet soft, when Sex Pistol tried to kill Mista, the bullet squashed against his head. And the enraged Sex Pistol continued slamming the bullet against his head even though it was made soft and harmless because said Pistol was in a berserk state. Really doesnt count toward anything other than Spice Girl being fast enough to soften the bullet before it could hit Mista.

Also third law, if the Sex Pistols can kick and punch with that much force, their bodies can in turn take that much force otherwise their arms and legs would break each time they atacked. And mind you, The Sex Pistols have gone and punched each other in the face before, with malicious intent at that.

 

[Chariot190]

But idk, Fugo reacted to Soft Machine for what it's worth, it happened off screen and he still got attacked, but he still reacted none the less. Issue is Soft Machine aint super fast, it's fast but Bruno thinks of it as slow so reacting to Soft Machine wouldnt grant MFTL speed.

 

[Antvasima]

You should send me a message when you have reached a conclusion here. I will unsubscribe to this thread now.

 

[Chariot190]

Will do.

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

I mean, Risotto only got to say "Take this, Metallica" and then he got attacked

So I doubt that's enough to warrant MFTL


Supersonic+ is still something good though

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

But idk, Fugo reacted to Soft Machine for what it's worth, it happened off screen and he still got attacked, but he still reacted none the less. Issue is Soft Machine aint super fast, it's fast but Bruno thinks of it as slow so reacting to Soft Machine wouldnt grant MFTL speed.

Soft Machine always attacked with sneak attacks (Similar to Clash attacking Bruno and co)

I only really attacked Moody Blues for a speed feat, but that's about it

 

[Chariot190]

yes, he said that, and was then in the process of attacking, before he could finish the attack, despite the attack having already began. He got pumped full of holes. Despite Aerosmith seemingly being nowhere to be seen prior to him saying that, yet the bullets hit him before he could finish off Diavolo, Nero having MFTL attack speed. Thus, theres a possiblity that Aerosmith has MFTL attack speed, given it could interrupt a MFTL attack.

Actually looking at it, Nero summoned Metallica outside of his body, so the whole unknown if he can or cant do that on his profile should be taken off as well.

Edit: Even if we assume Nero didnt start his attack yet (He did, but hypothetically, saying he didnt), that would be an even better feat as Aerosmith managed to pump hi full of lead before he could even get his attack off despite being in the process of going for the final blow.

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

Yeah but it's more of circunstacial feat here

He was just about to attack, and Narancia just happened to shot at that moment

I just believe a it's a really thin feat to try to scale Aerosmith too

 

[Chariot190]

>Soft Machine always attacked with sneak attacks (Similar to Clash attacking Bruno and co).

Yes, a sneak attack, but in Fugo's case it was more of a surprise attack than a sneak attack, Fugo went to open the door, Soft Machine attack him, before he could be taken out Fugo managed to punch a hole in the steel and break an iron bar. He still got caught but he did react and managed to counter, even if it was off panel (Technically it wasnt off panel, it was just hidden frim view by the door).

Maybe there's something to suggest it backscales, it did manage to get Giorno before Bruno could rescue him. Which suggests that while he's slower than Bruno, he's stillfast enough to where he could be an issue if given the chance.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah but it's more of circunstacial feat here
He was just about to attack, and Narancia just happened to shot at that moment

I just believe a it's a really thin feat to try to scale Aerosmith too

Yes, hence the possibly. Also I'd argue, in fact I'd insist that Nero was mid attack. He was likely mid attack when he said that line as well. Matter of fthe fact is Aerosmith either tagged Nero while he was about to attack or while he was attcking, which one doesnt eally matter because Aerosmiths bullets would have to be fast enough to hit him before he began the attack or before the attack finished, and we know the bullets werent anywhere near Nero prior to him getting hit. So if Nero is MFTL, Aerosmith has a high chance of being one as well. It's an obtuse feat, but it's still a feat, if Aerosmith was like a million times slower, Nro would have done the attack and finished it.

 

[IvoryAS]

Bruno getting upgraded by Secco: Yeah, I ca get behind that.

There's also examples of other Part 5 protagonists having similar levels of durability:

- Giorno takes a direct rush of punches from Sticky fingers

I can't see the manga pannel, but is that the one where he gets zipped into peices? If so, I'm not too sure about that one, but if enough of you guys are behind it, it should work

- Mista survives having his own bullets reflected back at him

Still not sure about this one

- Abbachio has been confirmed to be the physically toughest member of the gang

Honestly, as long as it's Araki that said this, I can't see anything thus far that proves otherwise

- Part 5's durabilities are the outlier here if anything.

I agree with this as well

This by extension upgrades a few stands in Part 5. Namely Clash, Aerosmith and Little Feet:

- Clash is able to harm Bruno, Mista and Abbachio and is shown harming/subduing Giorno throughout the fight (it's implied he would've finished Giorno off if Narancia didn't keep chasing after them). This would put Clash at Building level AP.

I'm honestly not sure about this one. I wouldn't say it's a hard no, but it's a bit of a strange case (I mean for the speed, the A.P more or less checks out more smoothly)

- Aerosmith's bullets are able to harm Giorno, putting it at Building level AP. It's also shown harming Clash several times throughout the fight and Clash's durability would likely scale to its AP, due to withstanding its own physical attacks. Aerosmith's speed would also scale to Clash, making it MFTL.

NGL, I've never really liked wall level Aerosmith. That's probably just me though. This seems to check out, provided my previous assumption was correct. Still not sure on the speed though.

- It goes without saying Narancia's human durability would scale to the squad due to the explosion example and the multiples times where Clash harms him and he survives, also making it Building level.

This makes sense.

- Little Feet's AP would scale to Narancia's durability, due to harming them physically , making it Building level. Their speed would also scale, making it MFTL.

This seems a little strange because (please don't be mad) Little Feet does have an D in power, I also had the same thing to say about Clash(Crush?).

I looked it up and from what I understand none of this would change anything for Fugo or Trish's stats.

Pretty sure Trish scales to Narancia physically, so there's that. (and Fugo might too, but I don't remember)

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

Metallica is MFTL

Nero isn't. Even when having the advantage of being invisible, he still couldn't dodge King Crimson throwing scizzors back at him

So Aerosmith just had to kill him before he could activate Metallica (And as I said, he barely started it, not mid attack)


It's like a gun: the bullet it's supersonic, but me puling the trigger I'm just regular human, you just have to faster than me

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

"It attack Giorno before Bruno could save him"

Then Bruno blizted him from dozens of meters when Soft Machine was just centimers away from stabbing Abbacchio

 

[Chariot190]

>Mista survives having his own bullets reflected back at him

He's talking about when the energy from Mista's bullet got bounced back at him from Beach Boy I think.

>This seems a little strange because (please don't be mad) Little Feet does have an D in power, I also had the same thing to say about Clash(Crush?).

Stand stats are wonky as shit, the D in power could mean it's shrinking ability isnt destructive at all. Because mind you, Stand Stats arent straight forward Best example being Whitesnake, it has a D in Speed, you'd assume it's talking about the Stand itself but no, it's confirmed that the speed is talking about how fast it can melt a body with the acid ability. Stand Stats should only be used when explicit (Like C-Moon having 3km in range) or we know exactly what it's talking about.

>Nero isn't. Even when having the advantage of being invisible, he still couldn't dodge King Crimson throwing scizzors back at him

Neros is likely MFTL. Nero wasnt even looking at Doppio when he threw it, him getting tagged doesnt matter if he wasnt even attempting to dodge it. And no, it isnt the same as Aerosmith tagging him, Aerosmith tagging him is a feat because he tagged him before he or his Stand (which was summoned) could kill Diavolo. Aerosmith attack speed>Nero's attack speed.

>It's like a gun: the bullet it's supersonic, but me puling the trigger I'm just regular human, you just have to faster than me

Bad analogy when the person pulling the trigger is likely just as fast as the bullet.

>Then Bruno blizted him from dozens of meters when Soft Machine was just centimers away from stabbing Abbacchio

It wasnt even 5 meters, I could calc it if you want, it'd probably end p being like 4 meters, while Bruno was prepped and ready. Also you conviently ignored the fact I already mentioned as much. Not making a case when that case has already been brought up. Nobody is saying Soft Machine is as fast as Bruno, just that it's fast enough to be an issue if given the chance, which is exactly what I said.

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

Looking at the bottom of the barrel there kiddo

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

I just feel is too much of a stretch of a scaling


Then again, you my post #32 that uses scaling base on being on the same team, so I'm no the best to judge

 

[TheRealestAgentP]

"Bad analogy when the person pulling the trigger is likely just as fast as the bullet"

The key word here is "likely". You're defending the argument with the same argument. Risotto has 0 feats that made him MFTL. And even then he would only need MFTL reactions if something to keep check of it (Although it's very obvious by the nature of the stand that he hardly needs to react to it, supported also by Risotto's stealthy method of attacking), but still, even then from both manga and anime you can see he was just about to start the attack, Narancia's timing if something was a coincidence, he just happend to shoot at the right time (or... wrong, given that saved the boss lol)

As for Soft Machine, I insist that even if Bruno was prepared, still, he is obviously way faster than it, and we can use calc stacking to at least assume how many times slower SM is compared to SF, so we only have a "Unknown" rating, so this is a useless feat

 

[Chariot190]

Looking at the bottom of the barrel there kiddo

And that somehow invalidates it how? It happened, whether you like it or not doesn't matter. If a feat exists, it exists. Your argument is that you simply don't like it or find it sufficient, not that the feat is wrong. You act like a feat not being super jacked off and posted all over makes it bad or doesnt count, it being bottom of the barrel, so to speak, doesn't make the feat wrong or unusable.

Aerosmith attacked faster than Nero, or Aerosmith attacked Nero mid attack, which one doesnt matter because either way it'd result in Aerosmioth being > Nero. Nero is likely MFTL and his Stand most certainly is MFTL, given Nero was in the process of landing the killing blow yet failed because he was shot before he could land it, yet Aerosmith one panel prior was nowhere to be seen, suggests, if not outright confirms that Aerosmith is > Nero.

Hell you're trying to suggest that looking for feats is a bad thing, the more I think about it the more that I don't think it's a stretch, in fact it's super straight forward, Aerosmith attacked faster than Nero, this is easy to comprehend and absolutely must be the case because anything else would result in Nero having killed Diavolo before Aerosmith could have shot him, because mind you, Aerosmith's attack had yet to occur prior to Nero beginning the killing blow. At the absolute minimum, Aerosmith is > Nero no matter how we try and intepret the feat. whatever Nero is listed as automatically gets scaled to it.

>The key word here is "likely". You're defending the argument with the same argument

How new are you? If a character is listed as likely or even possibly and a different character somehow scales to them, then they get listed as likely or possibly as well. I'm saying if Nero is likely MFTL then so is Aerosmith. Whatever Nero is listed as Aerosmith is as well,

>Risotto has 0 feats that made him MFTL.

How about reacting to King Crimson's arms? Given he's perceived it's attacks before.

> but still, even then from both manga and anime you can see he was just about to start the attack

In the anime Nero is very explicitly mid attack, in fact his Stand literally swarms around him (Which is actually in the manga as well, it's just not as blatant), there is no possible way you can confuse this. Not only that but Nero perceives and reacts to King Crimson launching objects. When he throws the scapels at Bruno, Nero straight up says that he knew Doppio would do that in reference to how he just threw a bunch of scapels, Nero says this while the scapels are on panel still mid-flight.

Also what? Just about to? It wouldnt matter if he was about to start or he was in the middle of attacking (it was the latter, the entire point here is that he already began attacking but never got to land the blow), either one would still mean Aerosmith > Nero. or worse case scenario, on par or comparable.

> Narancia's timing if something was a coincidence, he just happend to shoot at the right time

You cant just time an attack to hit a MFTL attacker if you fire after they begin the attack or go in for the attack, because reminder, again. Not how it works, the attack would have to have the speed to actually hit him before he himself finished attacking. dosnt help that there was zero bullets to be seen prior to Nero going in for the kill. Suggesting they were fired afterward.

> he is obviously way faster than it

Yes, he's faster than it, again, you're arguing for something literally nobody argued otherwise.

>and we can use calc stacking to at least assume how many times slower SM is compared to SF, so we only have a "Unknown" rating, so this is a useless feat

You clearly dont know what calc stacking is, because this isnt it, calc stacking would be calcing a character's speed, then calcing how fast a character dodging a punch from them from 1 cm away would be, that would be calc stacking. This though? This is backscaling, which is something we do all the time, if a character is 1 petaton for example, and casually beats the shit out of a different character, we'd list that character as in the teraton range because he's clearly not on par with 1 petaton, but he's still strong enough to backscale from it and end up as a fraction of it. How much would he backscale? That's what would be needed to discuss, but he's definitely not anything like 300x slower otherwise Bruno would have summoned SF and ripped its arm off, in every instance it attacked the gang, including the instance it attacked Bruno or Abbacchio. (Given it dragged Abbachio into the ship before Bruno could grab him, because Bruno was actually trying to grab him), it w s also fast enough to drag Giorno down before he could summon GE to defend himself (Assuming that was an option as Bruno literally yells at him to do exactly that). It's absolutely asinine to assume Soft Machine isnt a fraction of SF's speed, it's slow in comparison yes, but not millions of time slower. Unknown would be if we have zero clue how fast it is or it had zero scaling, feats or intractions, that isnt the case though. It's fast enough to outpace Bruno himself, twice, when unprepared.

Saying things like Nero has 0 feats that would make him that speed is wrong, given he's reacted to King Crimson's arm throwing scapels. He also makes note of how Doppio missed a punch with King Crimson but the latter is a tough call, the former is undeniable though because we know he percdived it as it was happening. But regardless, him straight up reacting to and seeing Doppio throw scapels at Bruno is more than enough. And if Nero or his Stand scales to King Crimson, even if just a bit, Aerosmith would in turn scale. If Nero is listed as so much as a likely MFTL, then Aerosmith would in turn get likely MFTL, that's how shit works here. Nero only being likely MFTL doesnt invalidate the feat, it'd just mean anyone who scales from him would only be likely as well opposed to straight up MFTL . It doesnt matter if Nero is only a likely, because that shit would still scale to Aerosmith. Although given Nero reacting to King Crimson throwing shit I'd go ahead and say he's straight up just MFTL.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

honestly im not sure about that kingcrimson feat as it can be argued that two-armed crimson is a litte weaker than full body Kingcrimson but there is no evidence of that being the case,and soft machine is a bit of a weird one to talk about considering that giorno was trying to prove himself and moody blues was out of reach and it has been shown that pulliing a stand down will pull the user down.

 

[Chariot190]

>it can be argued that two-armed crimson is a litte weaker than full body Kingcrimson

No it can't? It could only be argued if there's any reason to believe that's the case but there isnt. It's arms are still its arms, Absolutely nothing even hints at it being weaker, no statement, line, implication or even throwaway suggestion, and it wouldnt even make sense for it be either. It's the same Stand coming from the same person, just not fully manifested, it's no different than all the times Jotaro or someone only manifested their Stand's fist to hit a target. If anything it's stronger due to the close proximity it is to Doppio as it cant go out past him, and as we all know, Stands increase in strength the closer they are to their user, well the Power Types do anyway, which King Crimson is.

> giorno was trying to prove himself

Doesnt really matter if he still couldnt defend himself.

>and moody blues was out of reach and it has been shown that pulliing a stand down will pull the user down.

Bruno literally goes to grab Abbacchio's body, and right before he can grab hold of Abach, Soft Machine pulls the body down out of Bruno's reach. Link.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

1.i already said that there is no evidence to prove that two-arm crimson is weaker than kingcrimson.

2.it does because we see no indication of giorno even trying to defend himself.

3.yeah your right about that.

 

[Chariot190]

Then why bring it up? It's a false asumption that wasnt even a topic till you brought it up.

Which is my point. He didnt defend himself, even though Bruno is literally yelling at him to do so, suggesting that defending yourself is an option (Technically true given Fugo attemped to do so). Giorno had no reason not to defend himself, yes he was trying to prove himself to Abbacchio, but Giorno wouldnt just let an enemy incap him if he he could defend or counter.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

1.i don't know.

2.really? cause it seems like he did. he just told him "its in your hands" and walked towards SM.

 

[Chariot190]

Yes and? He still could've tried defebding himself, yet he didnt, yet we know you can do so whne being attacked by Soft Machine. Are you trying to suggest that Giorno, let something a million times slower than him inacp him and put himself in uneeded mortal danger just because he wanted to flex on Abbacchio? Yes it's true that Giorno wanted to prove himself so he put himself in danger so they could figure oyt what the stand is doing, but that's all he wanted to do, he wouldnt of just let himself be caught if he could have prevented it, especially as they knew how it was attacking due to it attempting to attack Giorno in the first place.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

>Are you trying to suggest that Giorno, let something a million times slower than him incap him and he put himself i uneeded mortal danger just because he wanted to flex on abbacchio?

>yes it is true that Giorno wanted to prove himself so he put himself in mortal danger so they could figure out what the stand is doing.

no offence but you are kinda contradicting yourself(well aside from the "flex" thing) and looking at the things giorno has dodged and reacted to thats excatly what he is doing.

 

[Chariot190]

Yes, and it grabbed him, and then he just did nothing? I dont think you realize how much faster youre proposing Giorno is here. To him, that grab would have felt like eternity. Giorno got grabbed ok, so now they know how it's attacking and the goal is completeted, so either 1. Giorno defends himself and breaks Soft Machine's arm off before it could complete the attack. 2. Soft Machine while slower, is still fast enogh to be an issue if given a chance and Giorno didnt have enough time to summon GE to prevent it from completeing its attack. 3. Giorno is braindead apparently and just let something a million times slower than him finish the attack even though he was more than fast enough to have summond GE to defend himself before Soft Machine could deliver the incap blow.

It's only one of those 3, I doubt it's the third because Bruno suggesting Giorno to defend kinda implies defending was a option. And number 1 didnt happen. so that leaves number 2. Soft Machine, while slower, isnt so much slower he's essentially an immobile statue that is frozen in place compared to them.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

Okay then

 

[Chariot190]

I'm just saying Soft Machine while slower, is not literally millions of times slower. Even if Giorno or Bruno was a hundred times faster, Soft Machine would still likely be FTL, albeit single digit. Of course he's obviously not huindreds of times slower, given one only needs to be like 7x faster for Bruno to have outsped him in their stand off. I'd say Likely FTL, possibly MFTL at most (Given At Most is an actual category we use, to denote a character's maximum cap) for Soft Machine should be fair. He's slower than Bruno but if Bruno isnt prepared, can still be a threat or beat him to he punch like when he grabbed Abbacchio.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

Hey before I go look on another page you got some tips on Px measurements,I was hoping on calculating jouske's(8) blood feat.

 

[Chariot190]

Message my wall if you want. Ill try and help you there.