Multi limb battle (Crimson Typhoon vs Hydra)

[Peppersalt43]

3 Arms : 0
3 Heads : 7
0 limbs : 0

Low 7-B versions used
Cryo hydra version used
Speed equalized
Fight takes place in the Sea of Crete's shoreline, 100 meters apart

 

[Tllmbrg]

Yah so regular Hydra at the highest only goes 8-A, when I revised the page I likely forgot to edit the tier properly

You can switch to either Cryo, Pridmorial or Pyro Hydras

 

[Peppersalt43]

Yah so regular Hydra at the highest only goes 8-A, when I revised the page I likely forgot to edit the tier properly

You can switch to either Cryo, Pridmorial or Pyro Hydras

Switched to cryo version

 

[Tllmbrg]

Cryohydra has all the optional abilities built in so you can’t remove those

 

[Peppersalt43]

Cryohydra has all the optional abilities built in so you can’t remove those

Fixed it

 

[Peppersalt43]

So uh, are you gonna comment something on this match?

 

[Tllmbrg]

No

 

[Imaginym]

Alright....
Crimson Typhoon:
Attack Potency: At least Small City level (Vastly superior to Kaiju such as Trespasser, and should be superior to Kaiju such as Knifehead. Briefly fought against Otachi)

& having checked a few profiles, it looks like what most of these mechs & kaiju use as their scaling point is this from Trespasser's profile:
Attack Potency: Large Town level+ (Created a magnitude 7.1 earthquake from its movement along the ocean floor)

Earthquake Calculations

An earthquake (also known as a quake, tremor or temblor) is the perceptible shaking of the surface of the Earth. Earthquakes can be violent enough to toss people around and destroy whole cities. Such earthquakes being caused by characters are a method useable to determine Attack Potency. For the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Magnitude 7

1.995262e+15

476.879063098 Kilotons

Large Town level

Not sure how much a 7.1 exactly should be. Is it just 7 with 10% more? Or do Earthquake Power Levels work differently than that?

Anyway, Crimson Typhoon is "vastly superior" to whatever a Magnitude 7.1 is. (Also, isn't that Environmental Destruction? Can Kaiju like Trespasser use that as AP?)

What about our Cryohydra here?

Varies from Small Building level+ (The weakest Pyrohydras are a CR 6[3] which makes them comparable to casters capable of using Conjure Barrage) to Small City level+ (At their peak with 12 heads they're a CR 13[6] monster in 3.5e which makes them comparable to legendary dragons) | Varies from Small Building level+ to Small City level+ (Cryohydras are on par with Pyrohydras)

Since it's the Low 7-B versions we care about, let's look into that Small City level+ rating.

Thankfully, the Legendary Dragons part links a Calculation. Unfortunately, there's 2 calcs, & I don't know which one the Hydra is being scaled to. I do know the 2nd one's High-End is being used, but that still means it's unclear if the Cryohydra is scaling as comparable to:

White Dragon's Winter Wonderland: 4.86 Megatons of TNT, Small City level+

Blue Dragon's Bustling Barrage (High-End): 2.57 Megatons of TNT, Small City level


Meanwhile, I still don't know how much exactly, a Magnitude 7.1 Earthquake is, but I do seem to know that 7.1 makes for 1.995262e+15 joules, or 476.879063098 Kilotons of TNT, or 0.476879063 Megatons of TNT.
2,570,000 (Tons of TNT) / 476,879.063 (Tons of TNT)

So yeah. The Cryohydra is comparable to either 2.57 or 4.86 Megatons of TNT.... & the Crimson Typhoon scales as Massively Superior to 0.476879063 Megatons.
Meaning the Cryohydra scales as comparable to a value roughly 5.389 times higher than the value that the Crimson Typhoon scales as "vastly superior" to.

Though, really, the gap is probably smaller, because the Crimson Typhoon got into Small City Level by being above a Large Town Level. If it's baseline, then the Hydra is at least 2.57 times stronger, if not 4.86 times stronger, seeing as Small City Level's baseline is 1 Megaton.


So where exactly does Crimson Typhoon being "vastly superior" to however much an exactly Magnitude 7.1 Earthquake is, put Crimson Typhoon at?


What about other stats?
Crimson Typhoon has the edge in Range & Lifting Strength, with its (unjustified) Class M Lifting Strength & "Several Dozens of meters" range, compared to the Cryohydra's "Melee range, several meters via Breath Attack."
(Come to think of it, what is Melee Range for the Cryohydra? The scan for its Natural Weaponry lists its Bite attack, which has a stated range of 10 feet.)
Also, the Cryohydra's Range via Breath Attack Range could be more detailed. A scan linked for the Breath Attack in its Powers & Abilities sectionmentions that it's "10 feet high, 10 feet wide, & 20 feet long."

CT also has Large Size Type 1, but unlike the statedly 20 feet long Cryohydra, CT's profile doesn't say where in Large Size it is. So it's at least 13-14 meters tall, but less than 100. What a nebulous size, lol.
Notably, said scan also mentions the hydra being only 4,000 lbs. Feels surprising to me; That's lighter than say, most rhinocerouses, & many people's cars, too!

Anyway, in Stamina....
Stamina: Limited only by its pilots
Stamina: High (Should be comprable to who can keep fighting after their limbs got chopped off and it is also able to hold its breath for one hour[2])

Also, the Hydra has Iron Will? What exactly does that do?

The Hydra also has Martial Arts (Via Weapon Focus[3]; Explained here[4]), but neither scan seems to explain exactly what Weapon its Focus is. Breath attack? Bite? Something else?
It also has Stealth Mastery (Shown here[5]) thanks to a +14 Stealth Rating.
Normally, I'd think a 20 feet long, 4,000 lb (6.09600 meters, 1814.36948 kilograms) beast wouldn't be that stealthy.), but the Crimson Typhoon is AT A BARE MINIMUM, 13 to 14 meters, & up to 100 meters tall; It's, again, at a bare minimum, more than twice as tall as the hydra is long, if not several times that, lol!

In an extreme cases, the size difference would make the hydra like a chipmunk biting at a human's (Metaphorically, the human is the Crimson Typhoon.) ankle.... Except the chipmunk's bites hurt the human more than 2 & a half, if not nearly 5 times as hard as the human's punches hurt the chipmunk. Lol.

So yeah.

WHAT SIZE IS THE CRIMSON TYPHOON? Because either it's a little more than twice the size of the Hydra, or nearly 16 times the size of the hydra, & considering the Hydra's mere "several meters via Breath Attack", every bit of range helps.
After all, sufficient cold may be able to freeze or lock up the mech's joints, or affect the pilots, assuming the Crimson Typhoon doesn't have insulation against its pilots; The mech they pilot apparently only has its Stamina limited by its pilots. (Dunno what that means about its power supply. What if the power core gets too cold or something?)
The Hydra can't climb, nor fly nor jump good, right? Could it damage the Crimson Typhoon's limbs enough to knock it over, or make it stumble or lose its balance?

Oh & curiously, the Crimson Typhoon has Energy Projection, but the profile doesn't detail it, nor does the Range section specify if that's for the Energy Projection, or for Melee as a result of its size or what.
Its Standard Equipment section isn't very informative either:

• 28-Go/Cockpit
• 34R0111/STERNO Piston
• OSIH Achilles Shock Absorber
• 11X///Triples Control Device
• IB22 Plasma caster

Is the Plasma Caster what does the Energy Projection?? How does it work? Descriptions for any of these, please?

The size difference, is kind of a problem for the Crimson Typhoon, too: Even if it's the bare minimum of 13 meters vs 20 feet long (& sadly, I'm not sure how tall that means the hydra is. If it's 20 feet tall, that's only 6.09600 meters.), that's less than CT's height. Awkward to try & hit something. Do its pilots use kicks in character? Can it do so without losing balance?
Not to mention having to keep track of it.
& the summary states that the CT has a "signature attack": The "Thundercloud" formation, where they activate all three of Crimson's rotating claws, & when they used it against Otachi, they sliced Otachi's head and chest. (Otachi survived, though. IDK the details, & either way, this sounds awkward to use on something that is maybe half your height, if not smaller.)

At least they'll be able to fling it off if it can cling to their ankle, considering it's (unjustified) Class M vs the Cryohydra's Class 25 (Its own Class 25 is unjustified, but I presume it shares the "(Specimens can push anywhere from 11 to 16 metric tons)" justification the regular Hydra has.) Lifting Strength.
Meaning even in the most favorable LS circumstances for the Cryohydra (Baseline Class M (1,000 tonnes) vs Pushing 16 Metric tons.), the Crimson Typhoon outlifts by 62.5 times, if not more!
Lol, what a gap.


Still, the Cryohydra has the edge, I think, in spite of being outlifted, outranged. It's 2.57 times stronger, & while sea water needs lower temperatures than freshwater (28.4 Fahrenheit compared to 32.4 Fahrenheit.), that's still freezable, plus, moisture in the sea air is nice, too, since that freeze easier, too; Helpful for locking up limbs. Even if it's just the ankles, preventing the CT from say, pivoting or turning around is useful, even if it might break out quickly due to Class M Lifting Strength.
Do the AP or LS values & how they compare for breaking out of the ice matter here?
Anyway, having Martial Arts/Weapon Focus, & Stealth Mastery help, too, especially since it's small, & there's probably water to hide in (It can hold its breath for an hour, after all.), & with the size advantage, the closest part for the CT to attack is.... The heads. Which the Hydra can Regenerate with an extra head appearing each time a removed head returns.
Unless the CT can do something akin to Fire Damage, their "signature move" of slicing at the head & chest will probably go badly, even if being at least 2.57 times weaker than the Hydra doesn't hinder them, or the Hydra doesn't try & freeze the blades, lol.

How intelligent are the CT's pilots? At least we know the Hydra is Animalistic in Intelligence, yet.... Given the helpful ocean shore environment, its Stealth, relatively small size, & AP/Durability advantage, it may be able to overcome the CT outlifting & outranging it.


Still, there's a lot of unanswered questions with this match. The matters of Stamina & (Surprisingly) Intelligence are dubious, we don't know if the CT insulates against cold, or if the Plasma or Energy Projection works as Fire Damage or why the CT has Energy Projection, or what their Equipment does or how tall EXACTLY either is, or what Weapon the Hydra "Focused" to get Martial Arts via Weapon Mastery, what exactly Iron Will does, or even when the CT's pilots use their Signature Attack? Ex: When they're desperate or at the start of the fight? Not to mention the CT pilots other behavioural choices. Or even how well the CT can stay balanced.


I can't decide if I think this match is confusing or clear cut, but for the moment, in spite of all my analysis (Or perhaps because of it, lol.), I'm leaning towards the former: Confusing, lol.


Pardon all the words, please! I hope this helps, or is at least appreciated!

 

[Peppersalt43]

WHAT SIZE IS THE CRIMSON TYPHOON? Because either it's a little more than twice the size of the Hydra, or nearly 16 times the size of the hydra, & considering the Hydra's mere "several meters via Breath Attack", every bit of range helps.
After all, sufficient cold may be able to freeze or lock up the mech's joints, or affect the pilots, assuming the Crimson Typhoon doesn't have insulation against its pilots; The mech they pilot apparently only has its Stamina limited by its pilots. (Dunno what that means about its power supply. What if the power core gets too cold or something?)
The Hydra can't climb, nor fly nor jump good, right? Could it damage the Crimson Typhoon's limbs enough to knock it over, or make it stumble or lose its balance?

Look at the 1:20 mark. All Pacific Rim characters should be comparable to Tresspasser who is around the size of the Golden Gate Bridge

Oh & curiously, the Crimson Typhoon has Energy Projection, but the profile doesn't detail it, nor does the Range section specify if that's for the Energy Projection, or for Melee as a result of its size or what.
Its Standard Equipment section isn't very informative either:

• 28-Go/Cockpit
• 34R0111/STERNO Piston
• OSIH Achilles Shock Absorber
• 11X///Triples Control Device
• IB22 Plasma caster

Is the Plasma Caster what does the Energy Projection?? How does it work? Descriptions for any of these, please?

At the 1:31 mark. All Jaegers have a form of plasma cannon similar to the one Gypsy Danger is using. However Crimson Typhoon died before getting a chance to use it (It has 3 arms. It would have been awesome)

The size difference, is kind of a problem for the Crimson Typhoon, too: Even if it's the bare minimum of 13 meters vs 20 feet long (& sadly, I'm not sure how tall that means the hydra is. If it's 20 feet tall, that's only 6.09600 meters.), that's less than CT's height. Awkward to try & hit something. Do its pilots use kicks in character? Can it do so without losing balance?
Not to mention having to keep track of it.
& the summary states that the CT has a "signature attack": The "Thundercloud" formation, where they activate all three of Crimson's rotating claws, & when they used it against Otachi, they sliced Otachi's head and chest. (Otachi survived, though. IDK the details, & either way, this sounds awkward to use on something that is maybe half your height, if not smaller.)

At least they'll be able to fling it off if it can cling to their ankle, considering it's (unjustified) Class M vs the Cryohydra's Class 25 (Its own Class 25 is unjustified, but I presume it shares the "(Specimens can push anywhere from 11 to 16 metric tons)" justification the regular Hydra has.) Lifting Strength.
Meaning even in the most favorable LS circumstances for the Cryohydra (Baseline Class M (1,000 tonnes) vs Pushing 16 Metric tons.), the Crimson Typhoon outlifts by 62.5 times, if not more!
Lol, what a gap.

Jaegers are fitted with tracking mechanisms similar to other marine vehicles so sonar, night vision, and regular cameras are probably part of their feed

Kicking should be fully possible. After all, they are designed to be controlled by the movement of the pilots' bodies, not just specific commands.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, let's continue the discussion

 

[Imaginym]

Look at the 1:20 mark. All Pacific Rim characters should be comparable to Tresspasser who is around the size of the Golden Gate Bridge

"At its center, the height of the Golden Gate Bridge from the water to the underside of the bridge deck averages 220 feet (or 67 meters) at high tide, increasing to 225 feet (or 68.5 meters) at low tide. The bridge towers stand 746 feet (or 227 meters) above the water and 500 feet (152 meters) above the road deck."

"The depth of water under the Golden Gate Bridge is approximately 377 feet (or 115 meters) at its deepest point. The US Geological Survey, with other research partners, have mapped central San Francisco Bay and its entrance under the Golden Gate Bridge using multibeam echosounders."

File:Golden-Gate-Bridge.svg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Crimson Typhoon does stand level with Trespasser.... Well, annoyingly, we'd have to take into account WHERE in the water they're standing, since the water depth varies.
If the Trespasser were standing on the surface of the water during high tide, it could be around 68.5 meters. But it's not standing ON the water, but IN the water.
I'm not sure what the average depth is, but at its deepest is 115 meters.
So, close to 183.5 meters tall, if it were level with the bridge while standing in the deepest water of the bridge?

There's also this:
"The south tower foundation depth below mean low water is 110 ft (34 m)."
I'm not entirely sure what it means, but the bridge's area does have some of the bay's deepest water. If it means near the South Tower, the Water below the average low depth of the water is 34 meters, & then there's 67+ meters from water to bridge surface, Trespasser would still barely pass 100 meters.

However, the Bay has a radical range of depths, including among its averages, medians.
"This distribution indicates that the average depth of the bay is shifted up due to a relative small amount of very deep spots. The median would be a much better measure here, which is is 2.40 meter for low tide 4.43 meter during high tide."

According to this: https://www.usgs.gov/centers/pacifi...e-center/science/san-francisco-bay-bathymetry
....The Central Bay's average depth is 13.4 meters, & its Median Depth is 10.9 meters?

So Trespasser could be barely 70 meters, or 80 meters, or close to 180 meters, depending on where in the bay it's standing, & depending on which measurements?
Anyone have any idea what's best to use?

(Also, this would probably require a minor revision, since some measurements would result in them getting Large Size Type 2.


Of course, even if the Crimson Typhoon were only like, a Low End of 69.4 meters, if the Hydra is as tall as it is long (20 feet, AKA 6.09600 meters.), then the Hydra is still like, 10 times smaller.

At the 1:31 mark. All Jaegers have a form of plasma cannon similar to the one Gypsy Danger is using. However Crimson Typhoon died before getting a chance to use it (It has 3 arms. It would have been awesome)

Seems like it has a bit of a charge-up time. Still, better to have that than nothing.
Although, considering the ridiculous size difference & the fact that the Hydra would likely be a LITERAL ankle-biter to the Crimson Typhoon, it might be difficult to aim, since it's tiny & pointing at his feet, & might be moving while attacking.

Jaegers are fitted with tracking mechanisms similar to other marine vehicles so sonar, night vision, and regular cameras are probably part of their feed

Should be helpful if the hydra gets submerged, just have to hope it doesn't dodge. Speed Equalized & all, plus, that charge-up time. (& the Hydra having the AP/Durability advantage.)

Kicking should be fully possible. After all, they are designed to be controlled by the movement of the pilots' bodies, not just specific commands.

On one hand, the idea of a Hydra being like a tiny, ankle-biting lizard that the Crimson Typhoon sends flying with a punt is hilarious to me.

On the other hand, the Hydra is AT LEAST 2.57 times stronger/more durable than the Crimson Typhoon, & would probably no sell this titan trying to punt it away & just get pissed off, lol.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Ah, alright then. So you vote Hydra?

 

[Imaginym]

Ah, alright then. So you vote Hydra?

Well, it in large part depends on the Crimson Typhoon's behaviour.

The Hydra's advantages:
1. Being somewhere between 2.57 & 5 times stronger than the Crimson's Scaling Point.
2. Likely being a really tiny target (Somewhat offset by the CT's, "tracking mechanisms similar to other marine vehicles so sonar, night vision, and regular cameras are probably part of their feed ") somewhere on the order of 6 meters long & unclear but likely similar height, versus the CT likely being several tens of meters tall, depending on water depth stuff.
3. Being a really tiny target where some of the biggest targets are its heads, which, if any are destroyed, it will regenerate 2 for each lost 1 round (about 6 seconds later). & it uses said heads to attack, so giving it more heads to attack with.... Not to mention, the CT's signature move involves spinning blades likely to decapitate.
4. Ice breath potentially freezing mechanical parts.
5. The CT might realize how much of a threat it is at first.
6. The water may give it cover, & it can hold its breath for plenty of time. Also, IDK if the CT's energy attack will hit as hard against a submerged target; Would water dampen the energy attack?
7. The CT will probably go for close combat (AFAIK), which is where the hydra has the edge.

The Crimson Typhoon's advantages:
1. Starting 100 meters apart when the Cryohydra's "Melee range, several meters via Breath Attack."
2. Starting 100 meters apart when the CT has "Several Dozens of meters" range, & the CT has an energy projectile attack. (Although, small, more durable target, & charge-up time hurts this.)
3. Being tens of meters tall when the hydra is only about 6.09600 meters long; The hydra is considerably stronger, but will probably have difficulty reaching any part of the CT except the ankles. However, with time, the hydra's many heads may be able to leverage their AP advantage to tear the CT apart from the ground up; Tear apart the feet so it can't walk properly until it eventually falls.
4. Being a big mech with the actual living pilots high up; I'd presume most parts of the CT can function for a while even if it starts getting torn open & its circuits shredded, exposed, etc. (Although, having your circuits & stuff exposed in an area full of sea water, not to mention against an ice user is not a good position to be in; Big risk of parts being frozen, & potential electrocution or short-circuit.)
5. Being a big mech when the Cryohydra has only unjustified Class 25 Lifting Strength (I presume it shares the "(Specimens can push anywhere from 11 to 16 metric tons)" justification the regular Hydra has.). I doubt the CT weighs less than 16 metric tonnes, meaning if it got on top of the hydra, the hydra would almost certainly be pinned by the mech's sheer size & mass.
However, they'd have to stay there AND all of the hydra's heads would have to be unable to attack -Lest it tear open a whole under the part pinning it so it can move & resume attacking- or if the hydra's BREATH attack can break the metal, that'd be a problem for pinning, too. Plus, there's the risk that pinning the hydra under that mass MIGHT not kill it, & since it's going down on the top first, this might kill some heads, causing new ones to spawn; If the heads spawning don't break the metal, there's still the risk they might spawn with open space for their long necks to move so their heads can bite or headbutt a hole in the metal.
6. It MIGHT not come up with the size difference (Other than trying to step on or shake off the hydra.), but the CT's (unjustified) Class M Lifting Strength means even in the most favorable LS circumstances for the Cryohydra (Baseline Class M (1,000 tonnes) vs Pushing 16 Metric tons.), the Crimson Typhoon outlifts by 62.5 times, if not more!


Basically, the hydra's advantages is it has a big AP/Durability advantages & a lot of heads to attack rapidly with that advantage, & being relatively small & comfortable in a cold, watery environment helps, especially if it ends up tearing apart the ankles of the CT so it can't walk or its circuits get exposed to the seawater.

The CT's advantages are that the hydra can't lift it -But it might be able to destroy it from underneath, or regen a head to destroy it- & the 100 meter starting distance (Which the hydra's attacks don't even come close to reaching.) while having an energy attack, AND outranging AND having tracking technology means in theory, they could win if they decide to constantly flee while spamming range, assuming they can maintain that.

The problem with this is, AFAIK, the CT's IC strategy is going into melee, & AFAIK, even their projectile was only used up close, & their signature move, which aims for the chest & head, if they did use it on such a small target, would probably just cause it to regenerate even more heads than it had before, & whether they did that or not, the hydra's many heads with their superior AP would tear apart their mech in close combat; If they don't realize this before the CT's feet are too torn up to walk -Or worse, get torn up & the seawater fries their circuits.- they may end up with a mech that's suddenly much less mobile against an opponent who's small range is suddenly not a big problem anymore.


So yeah, I'm not entirely sure.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well, it in large part depends on the Crimson Typhoon's behaviour.

The problem with this is, AFAIK, the CT's IC strategy is going into melee, & AFAIK, even their projectile was only used up close, & their signature move, which aims for the chest & head, if they did use it on such a small target, would probably just cause it to regenerate even more heads than it had before, & whether they did that or not, the hydra's many heads with their superior AP would tear apart their mech in close combat; If they don't realize this before the CT's feet are too torn up to walk -Or worse, get torn up & the seawater fries their circuits.- they may end up with a mech that's suddenly much less mobile against an opponent who's small range is suddenly not a big problem anymore.

You're actually kinda right with that last parts. Most of the fights in Pacific Rim were melee and ranged combat was almost non-existent. In fact I'm pretty sure the only true ranged attack I've seen is Striker Eureka's missile barrage

But anyways one way CT can utilize its higher LS is actually to grab the hydra and obliterate it in its palm. Remember, it's supposed to move like a giant human. It can probably also bend down and grab things. And speed is equalized so The Hydra won't be dodging so easily

 

[Imaginym]

You're actually kinda right with that last parts. Most of the fights in Pacific Rim were melee and ranged combat was almost non-existent. In fact I'm pretty sure the only true ranged attack I've seen is Striker Eureka's missile barrage

But anyways one way CT can utilize its higher LS is actually to grab the hydra and obliterate it in its palm. Remember, it's supposed to move like a giant human. It can probably also bend down and grab things. And speed is equalized so The Hydra won't be dodging so easily

True, but they still have to constantly be tracking it. Also, grabbing may not work too well; What if the hydra just uses its many heads to bite the mechs's fingers or palm off? Or the crushing causes some of its heads to regen in it?

 

[Peppersalt43]

True, but they still have to constantly be tracking it. Also, grabbing may not work too well; What if the hydra just uses its many heads to bite the mechs's fingers or palm off? Or the crushing causes some of its heads to regen in it?

If what I read is right, to regenerate from being completely blown up, you need High Mid regen. Hydra only has Mid

 

[Imaginym]

If what I read is right, to regenerate from being completely blown up, you need High Mid regen. Hydra only has Mid

I meant in the event that crushing the Hydra would involve crushing the heads; If they were crushed before the main body (& they are much thinner than the main body.) their might be a window before more Regenerate into existence before the crushing finishes.

Anyway, would the CT go for bending down & grabbing. (Assuming they could; Their mech's "feet" might be very damaged/frozen soon into the match.)

 

[Peppersalt43]

I meant in the event that crushing the Hydra would involve crushing the heads; If they were crushed before the main body (& they are much thinner than the main body.) their might be a window before more Regenerate into existence before the crushing finishes.

That would just mean that in the event of it happening, it wouldn't be a guaranteed win

Anyway, would the CT go for bending down & grabbing. (Assuming they could; Their mech's "feet" might be very damaged/frozen soon into the match.)

If a person stubs their toe or steps on a bear trap, their first reaction is to bend down and touch their feet, right? It's probably still possible to touch your leg if it's damaged and probably in-character

 

[Imaginym]

That would just mean that in the event of it happening, it wouldn't be a guaranteed win

If a person stubs their toe or steps on a bear trap, their first reaction is to bend down and touch their feet, right? It's probably still possible to touch your leg if it's damaged and probably in-character

Or kick at it. Or shoot at it. Plus, it's unclear how much it'll be damaged, especially since the Hydra has 3 heads to attack with.
& a giant mech is less suited for bending over like a human, lest it fall over & spend time & such lifting its huge mass back up. (I assume it's waterproofed normally.)

 

[Peppersalt43]

Or kick at it. Or shoot at it. Plus, it's unclear how much it'll be damaged, especially since the Hydra has 3 heads to attack with.
& a giant mech is less suited for bending over like a human, lest it fall over & spend time & such lifting its huge mass back up. (I assume it's waterproofed normally.)

If the way to beat a Jaeger is as simple as attacking its legs and knocking it down, the precursors wouldn't need to create Kaiju as advanced as Otachi and Leatherback.

The Jaeger's have some form of body control where they can twist their joints to readjust their position such as in the video below though I presume they need input a command to do so


At the 1 minute mark

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well that was fun

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

If the way to beat a Jaeger is as simple as attacking its legs and knocking it down, the precursors wouldn't need to create Kaiju as advanced as Otachi and Leatherback.

I mean, IDK if the Kaiju have tried that. Have they tried destroying the legs?
& either way, multiple much stronger attacks is useful if the hydra gets grabbed & needs to like, tear off the CT's fingers.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I mean, IDK if the Kaiju have tried that. Have they tried destroying the legs?
& either way, multiple much stronger attacks is useful if the hydra gets grabbed & needs to like, tear off the CT's fingers.

I would presume so. Because during the movie, the Kaiju have already learned to go for where the pilots are, essentially trying to go for an insta-kill. Plus unlike the Kaiju, the hydra is much smaller

Alright so @Apex_PredatorX has answered your question here. All Pacific Rim Characters are 80 to 90 meters tall

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well that was fun

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

I would presume so. Because during the movie, the Kaiju have already learned to go for where the pilots are, essentially trying to go for an insta-kill. Plus unlike the Kaiju, the hydra is much smaller

Alright so @Apex_PredatorX has answered your question here. All Pacific Rim Characters are 80 to 90 meters tall

I have looked into stuff about the Hydra off-site, on a Discord Server.

Hydra :: d20srd.org

Movement, Position, and Distance :: d20srd.org

Apparently a typical Hydra is a Huge-sized creature, meaning it is 16 to 32 feet in height.
At the largest, this is 9.7536 meters.

Meaning, in the most favorable situations (32 ft vs 80 meters.) the hydra is about 8.2 times smaller than the CT; Kind of like a 21 cm or so creature would be compared to a 170 cm human.

Anyway, curious about Apex's lack of detailing on why that size range.

I would presume so. Because during the movie, the Kaiju have already learned to go for where the pilots are, essentially trying to go for an insta-kill. Plus unlike the Kaiju, the hydra is much smaller

What? The Kaiju went for where the pilots are so they attacked the legs...?? The pilots are in the legs?


But yeah, this comes down to if the hydra's many heads can tear apart the CT's feet or fingers fast enough (Seeing as each head has a big advantage.) so that the CT can't crush the hydra in time.
Or maybe freeze the fingers in place to prevent it clenching them?

 

[Peppersalt43]

What? The Kaiju went for where the pilots are so they attacked the legs...?? The pilots are in the legs?

Sorry what I meant to say was they went for an insta-kill attack that requires a lot more precision instead of an easy leg sweep meaning they've probably already tried that before and failed

Or maybe freeze the fingers in place to prevent it clenching them?

Well, they can but can't CT just smash them onto the ground? Or at least pin them there before hitting them with the energy cannon?

 

[Imaginym]

Sorry what I meant to say was they went for an insta-kill attack that requires a lot more precision instead of an easy leg sweep meaning they've probably already tried that before and failed

& why did that fail?

Well, they can but can't CT just smash them onto the ground? Or at least pin them there before hitting them with the energy cannon?

Speed is Equalized, can't the Hydra just run from it trying to stomp them?

 

[Peppersalt43]

& why did that fail?

I assume it's the body control I mentioned previously

Speed is Equalized, can't the Hydra just run from it trying to stomp them?

Your explanation was about how the hydra can avoid getting held by CT by freezing its fingers. So no, this isn't about stomping, it's about what CT will do upon grabbing its opponent

 

[LordNidhoggr]

Hey, so just wanted to chime in.

Officially, CrimsonTypgon is 250 feet/76.2 meters tall and weighs 1722 tons. It has the Thundercloud Formation and a plasma gun directly comparable to Gipsy Danger's, meaning it should scale to Small City Level or higher (Gipsy Danger's killed Leatherback, who was far stronger and more durable than Trespasser or Knifehead)

Honestly, even given the Hydra's surprising strength, I'm having a hard time thinking it could destroy Crimson Typhoon. CT could win via head removal with Thundercloud followed by plasma blasts to keep the heads from growing back. Or, more likely, CT wins via BFR by kicking or yeeting the Hydra, possibly into orbit, or at least high enough to cause terminal falling damage. The Hydra could theoretically dismantle parts of CT, I just don't see that happening with the size, range, and speed advantages CT has.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Honestly, even given the Hydra's surprising strength, I'm having a hard time thinking it could destroy Crimson Typhoon. CT could win via head removal with Thundercloud followed by plasma blasts to keep the heads from growing back

Ironically being smaller works on the hydra's advantage, being able to duck from any straightforward attack done towards it so the thundercloud formation is mostly useless here (Also regen).

The plasma blast is more of a finisher for when CT finally restrains its opponent and with the LS advantage, it's fully possible. However the hydra can simply break free by freezing the fingers or feet that are holding it down

The kicking into orbit part can work though seeing as to how it's smaller and can freeze itself onto the mech, they can probably avoid getting punted too far away at the cost of a head or something

 

[Imaginym]

Hey, so just wanted to chime in.

Officially, CrimsonTypgon is 250 feet/76.2 meters tall and weighs 1722 tons. It has the Thundercloud Formation and a plasma gun directly comparable to Gipsy Danger's, meaning it should scale to Small City Level or higher (Gipsy Danger's killed Leatherback, who was far stronger and more durable than Trespasser or Knifehead)

I appreciate this info, but source?

Honestly, even given the Hydra's surprising strength, I'm having a hard time thinking it could destroy Crimson Typhoon.

The goal would probably be more tear apart the feet so it falls over/can't stomp on the hydra, &/or bite off the robot's hands/fingers.

CT could win via head removal with Thundercloud followed by plasma blasts to keep the heads from growing back.

I'm not sure that'd work, given the plasma plasts have a charge-up time. Plus, any living Hydra heads have higher AP, so they might be able to block plasma with ice breath.

Or, more likely, CT wins via BFR by kicking or yeeting the Hydra, possibly into orbit,

Do they do it in-character?

or at least high enough to cause terminal falling damage.

Isn't the Hydra is too high tiered to be notably damaged by fall damage?

The Hydra could theoretically dismantle parts of CT, I just don't see that happening with the size, range, and speed advantages CT has.

Speed is equalized, & the hydra has multiple heads to tear apart multiple parts at once.

 

[LordNidhoggr]

Ironically being smaller works on the hydra's advantage, being able to duck from any straightforward attack done towards it so the thundercloud formation is mostly useless here (Also regen).

The plasma blast is more of a finisher for when CT finally restrains its opponent and with the LS advantage, it's fully possible. However the hydra can simply break free by freezing the fingers or feet that are holding it down

The kicking into orbit part can work though seeing as to how it's smaller and can freeze itself onto the mech, they can probably avoid getting punted too far away at the cost of a head or something

Would the hydra be able to duck or dodge super effectively given how big CT's area of attack is? Thundercloud is not sticking an arm out with a spinning blade at the end, it's a frenzied, spinning, slashing combo. But I really don't see the Hydra beating the BFR potential. Freezing or attaching itself via biting onto a part of CT might work if the Jaeger just went to pick up the Hydra, but it's more likely that CT would punch or kick the Hydra given its small size, and the brief contact and high energy involved would make latching on sufficiently very difficult.

I will admit the Hydra has a better chance than I first thought, but CT's range, size, and weapon advantages still seem a bit much to me atm. Holding off my vote for now, though.

 

[LordNidhoggr]

I appreciate this info, but source?

The goal would probably be more tear apart the feet so it falls over/can't stomp on the hydra, &/or bite off the robot's hands/fingers.

I'm not sure that'd work, given the plasma plasts have a charge-up time. Plus, any living Hydra heads have higher AP, so they might be able to block plasma with ice breath.

Do they do it in-character?

Isn't the Hydra is too high tiered to be notably damaged by fall damage?

Speed is equalized, & the hydra has multiple heads to tear apart multiple parts at once.

Source: Official Book and the wiki for double-checking.

Speed equalizing seems to hurt the Hydra here, as it's listed at Hypersonic while CT is only Subsonic, so not sure how that would work.

The plasma does have a charge time, but it's a few seconds and could still fry heads/stumps if not the whole Hydra due to the size of the projectiles. No comment on whether short-range cryo breath could effectively block one or more projectiles.

There is literally no example of Pacific Rim Jaegers fighting monsters less than 50 meters tall, so "in-character" would just be fighting to win, which would mean using every tool at their disposal to defeat the enemy.

Maybe, but it's still BFR. And given the Hydra's small size, it's not out of the question for it to be yeeted into actual orbit. We have examples of kaiju that are superior to CT lifting Jaegers into low orbit, and the Hydra is tiny compared to that kind of weight.

 

[Imaginym]

Would the hydra be able to duck or dodge super effectively given how big CT's area of attack is?

Well, Speed is Equalized, & the Hydra has very long necks that it moves around regularly, so it could at least duck effectively, & it's a small target with equal travel speed.
& AFAIK, if we're accounting for optional abilities, the hydra should be skilled with its heads, at least, due to these: Martial Arts (Via Weapon Focus[3]; Explained here[4])

Thundercloud is not sticking an arm out with a spinning blade at the end, it's a frenzied, spinning, slashing combo.

Yes, but it's a slashing attack against something that grows new heads at 2 to 1 seconds later, & they might not realize it the first time it happens, after which the hydra may be more aggressive, & could have as many as twice the heads to attack the CT.

Also, checking the profile again, I'm not sure plasma to seal the necks might work:
Body Control (When their head is chopped of their neck seals itself[1])

But I really don't see the Hydra beating the BFR potential.

Do they do that IC, especially against small targets?

Freezing or attaching itself via biting onto a part of CT might work if the Jaeger just went to pick up the Hydra, but it's more likely that CT would punch or kick the Hydra given its small size, and the brief contact and high energy involved would make latching on sufficiently very difficult.

High energy despite that the hydra is the more durable of the two?

Source: Official Book and the wiki for double-checking.

Speed equalizing seems to hurt the Hydra here, as it's listed at Hypersonic while CT is only Subsonic, so not sure how that would work.

• The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.
  • Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

The plasma does have a charge time, but it's a few seconds and could still fry heads/stumps if not the whole Hydra due to the size of the projectiles. No comment on whether short-range cryo breath could effectively block one or more projectiles.

Short range, but multiple heads should be enough to block a blast aimed from above at their severed heads, especially since the Hydra has greater attacks.
Plus, as mentioned earlier, Hydras can & do seal their severed heads, preventing bleeding. Unsure if this would prevent Plasma negating Regeneration.

There is literally no example of Pacific Rim Jaegers fighting monsters less than 50 meters tall, so "in-character" would just be fighting to win, which would mean using every tool at their disposal to defeat the enemy.

What did they do against the smaller monsters?
& yes, fighting to win, but they still have in-character opening moves, right?

Maybe, but it's still BFR. And given the Hydra's small size, it's not out of the question for it to be yeeted into actual orbit. We have examples of kaiju that are superior to CT lifting Jaegers into low orbit, and the Hydra is tiny compared to that kind of weight.

I'm skeptical they would do it if they have no precedent of doing it before. (Plus it might be difficult to punt the hydra if one or both of the mech's feet are already torn up, or have been frozen to the ground.)

 

[LordNidhoggr]

Well, Speed is Equalized, & the Hydra has very long necks that it moves around regularly, so it could at least duck effectively, & it's a small target with equal travel speed.
& AFAIK, if we're accounting for optional abilities, the hydra should be skilled with its heads, at least, due to these: Martial Arts (Via Weapon Focus[3]; Explained here[4])


Yes, but it's a slashing attack against something that grows new heads at 2 to 1 seconds later, & they might not realize it the first time it happens, after which the hydra may be more aggressive, & could have as many as twice the heads to attack the CT.

Also, checking the profile again, I'm not sure plasma to seal the necks might work:
Body Control (When their head is chopped of their neck seals itself[1])

Do they do that IC, especially against small targets?

High energy despite that the hydra is the more durable of the two?

• The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.
  • Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

Short range, but multiple heads should be enough to block a blast aimed from above at their severed heads, especially since the Hydra has greater attacks.
Plus, as mentioned earlier, Hydras can & do seal their severed heads, preventing bleeding. Unsure if this would prevent Plasma negating Regeneration.

What did they do against the smaller monsters?
& yes, fighting to win, but they still have in-character opening moves, right?

I'm skeptical they would do it if they have no precedent of doing it before. (Plus it might be difficult to punt the hydra if one or both of the mech's feet are already torn up, or have been frozen to the ground.)

I'm not sure you realize how much bigger CT is. It's 12 times as tall as the Hydra is long and weighs more than 100 times as much. This is like a 6ft man fighting a 6in rodent. Granted a rodent with comparable strength, but the physics are not in the Hydra's favor. Any attack CT will fling the Hydra around like a ragdoll. A full-power strike would definitely yeet the Hydra out of the battlefield. Biting or freezing itself to a part of CT to avoid this would just cause it to lose parts that were attached (unless there's so much water around that the Hydra could create a small iceberg around itself).

The Hydra would have to cripple, not inconvenience but actually cripple, something 100 times its size before it got hit once. As for "in character," dude the smallest monster in PR is ten times as tall and more than ten times heavier. There is literally nothing to indicate the mech pilots response to something so much smaller. So you'd treat it like you would something a tiny fraction of your size that you have to defeat: step on it, kick it, grab something to hit it with.

 

[Imaginym]

I'm not sure you realize how much bigger CT is. It's 12 times as tall as the Hydra is long and weighs more than 100 times as much. This is like a 6ft man fighting a 6in rodent. Granted a rodent with comparable strength, but the physics are not in the Hydra's favor.

A rodent with several times the strength with multiple heads that all attack equally strongly; If each of those individual heads is as multiplicatively strong compared to CT is, that's dangerous.
& I'm quite aware of the size difference.
How tall is the CT again? 80 meters tall / 20 ft (The hydra is statedly 20 feet long.) = a little over 13 times.
& due to being listed as a Huge size creature, the hydra's height can be as much as 32 ft. Not even 10 meters, yes. Assuming the CT is 80 meters, that's the CT being about 8.2 times larger.
& yes, the CT's total weight as a whole is far heavier than what the hydra can lift.

Any attack CT will fling the Hydra around like a ragdoll. A full-power strike would definitely yeet the Hydra out of the battlefield.

True but the fall damage is negligible at the tiers of these characters & if I understand the travel speed & Stamina correctly, so long as the hydra lands on Earth -The CT's pilots may not initially realize they need to punt it to space- travelling back to the battlefield is not difficult.
& by the time they've tried the first punt, they're probably walking on broken or exposed feet, or frozen to the ground.

Biting or freezing itself to a part of CT to avoid this would just cause it to lose parts that were attached (unless there's so much water around that the Hydra could create a small iceberg around itself).

What of freezing the CT to the ground, though? Wouldn't the ice breath significantly damage the metal, if not make it dangerous to pull apart from the ground
& according to the OP, they are at the Shoreline of Crete, though

The Hydra would have to cripple, not inconvenience but actually cripple, something 100 times its size before it got hit once.

Does simply kicking a foe launch it, when they have much higher durability than you?

As for "in character," dude the smallest monster in PR is ten times as tall and more than ten times heavier. There is literally nothing to indicate the mech pilots response to something so much smaller. So you'd treat it like you would something a tiny fraction of your size that you have to defeat: step on it, kick it, grab something to hit it with.

In a speed equalized match, I'm skeptical a hydra couldn't simply move to avoid these.

 

[LordNidhoggr]

A rodent with several times the strength with multiple heads that all attack equally strongly; If each of those individual heads is as multiplicatively strong compared to CT is, that's dangerous.
& I'm quite aware of the size difference.
How tall is the CT again? 80 meters tall / 20 ft (The hydra is statedly 20 feet long.) = a little over 13 times.
& due to being listed as a Huge size creature, the hydra's height can be as much as 32 ft. Not even 10 meters, yes. Assuming the CT is 80 meters, that's the CT being about 8.2 times larger.
& yes, the CT's total weight as a whole is far heavier than what the hydra can lift.

True but the fall damage is negligible at the tiers of these characters & if I understand the travel speed & Stamina correctly, so long as the hydra lands on Earth -The CT's pilots may not initially realize they need to punt it to space- travelling back to the battlefield is not difficult.
& by the time they've tried the first punt, they're probably walking on broken or exposed feet, or frozen to the ground.

What of freezing the CT to the ground, though? Wouldn't the ice breath significantly damage the metal, if not make it dangerous to pull apart from the ground
& according to the OP, they are at the Shoreline of Crete, though

Does simply kicking a foe launch it, when they have much higher durability than you?

In a speed equalized match, I'm skeptical a hydra couldn't simply move to avoid these.

Yes, the hydra is very strong, but it's limited by range. Neither its heads nor breath weapon appear to have a range exceeding the length of the Hydra. The heads are small, very small compared to CT, and they'd be biting at fast moving limbs. Yes, like a mouse, they might be a little hard to hit, but one good hit would send it flying. If it came back from that, they'd just hit it harder or shoot it full of plasma, which liquified a kaiju with similar durability to the Hydra, and Cryo-hydras are weak to fire attacks which the plasma gun basically is (by which I mean it damages through heat). And keep in mind that CT is a Mark IV Jaeger, a generation more advanced than Gipsy Danger, so it's plasma gun would likely be even more powerful if anything.

As for whether or not a kick would launch something with durability: yes, it absolutely would. Durability would protect from damaging effects, like skin tearing and bones breaking, it does nothing to stop the laws of physics. The hydra would be hit by several times its own mass moving at very high speed; nothing is going to stop that thing from going flying for miles (look at how far Leatherback threw Gipsy Danger, who is much heavier than CT. Plus CT could grab the Hydra and spin its torso to increase throwing speed and throw it so hard that if the hydra was biting the metal, the metal would just shear as the hydra left the hand at insane velocity.

With the freezing CT...again, the size difference makes that hard. If the Hydra is capable of instantly freezing at least its own mass of water, and CT is standing in said water, then it might be able to freeze one of its feet. Granted, I don't know exactly how its cone of cold-style breath works, whether it freezes what's already there or creates ice from the breath itself, but the Hydra is only about as big as CT's foot, and the range of its breath is only "several meters."

The Hydra is tough, but there's such a disparity in size involving a being of similar strength and durability that I can't see the Hydra have any advantages beyond maybe being hard to hit.

 

[Imaginym]

Yes, the hydra is very strong, but it's limited by range. Neither its heads nor breath weapon appear to have a range exceeding the length of the Hydra.

Yes, but its necks are very long, it's going to be sticking them out, & I doubt the CT is going to be too far.
& stopping a plasma blast just short is still stopping it.

The heads are small, very small compared to CT, and they'd be biting at fast moving limbs.

& the CT needs to move its legs to attack the hydra. The hydra has multiple heads to reach in multiple angles, & it's not easy to kick or stomp if you're constantly trying to back away or side step.

Yes, like a mouse, they might be a little hard to hit, but one good hit would send it flying. If it came back from that, they'd just hit it harder or shoot it full of plasma,

Again, what stops it just moving to avoid the plasma fires, or countering with multiple higher AP breath attacks?

which liquified a kaiju with similar durability to the Hydra,

Similar durability?

and Cryo-hydras are weak to fire attacks which the plasma gun basically is (by which I mean it damages through heat). And keep in mind that CT is a Mark IV Jaeger, a generation more advanced than Gipsy Danger, so it's plasma gun would likely be even more powerful if anything.

Quoting myself from earlier:
"So yeah. The Cryohydra is comparable to either 2.57 or 4.86 Megatons of TNT.... & the Crimson Typhoon scales as Massively Superior to 0.476879063 Megatons.
Meaning the Cryohydra scales as comparable to a value roughly 5.389 times higher than the value that the Crimson Typhoon scales as "vastly superior" to.

Though, really, the gap is probably smaller, because the Crimson Typhoon got into Small City Level by being above a Large Town Level. If it's baseline, then the Hydra is at least 2.57 times stronger, if not 4.86 times stronger, seeing as Small City Level's baseline is 1 Megaton."

Blocking plasma gun fire with ice breath from multiple heads should be fasible, given the statistics gap.

As for whether or not a kick would launch something with durability: yes, it absolutely would. Durability would protect from damaging effects, like skin tearing and bones breaking, it does nothing to stop the laws of physics. The hydra would be hit by several times its own mass moving at very high speed; nothing is going to stop that thing from going flying for miles (look at how far Leatherback threw Gipsy Danger, who is much heavier than CT. Plus CT could grab the Hydra and spin its torso to increase throwing speed and throw it so hard that if the hydra was biting the metal, the metal would just shear as the hydra left the hand at insane velocity.

Noted.

With the freezing CT...again, the size difference makes that hard. If the Hydra is capable of instantly freezing at least its own mass of water, and CT is standing in said water, then it might be able to freeze one of its feet. Granted, I don't know exactly how its cone of cold-style breath works, whether it freezes what's already there or creates ice from the breath itself, but the Hydra is only about as big as CT's foot, and the range of its breath is only "several meters."

Unsure, though, D&D does allowedly scale Heat & Freezing to physicals (Most are done via magic. Universal energy source or such, IIRC?) & the version of the Hydra being used here is Low 7-B.

For what it's worth, Cone of Cold freezes about 15.574 cubic meters of water. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mr._Bambu/D&D_Calc:_Freezing_Sphere & is used for scaling of Building Level D&D Characters.
Presumably, the Cryohydra might be able to freeze over at least the CT's feet.

The Hydra is tough, but there's such a disparity in size involving a being of similar strength and durability that I can't see the Hydra have any advantages beyond maybe being hard to hit.

I would say the multiple attacks, the higher durability against everything but the Plasma Cannons, & the self-sealing, 2-to-1 regenerating heads that are a liability to hit despite that they're the topmost part of the hydra & the CT is very high up help the Cryohydra here.

 

[LordNidhoggr]

Yes, but its necks are very long, it's going to be sticking them out, & I doubt the CT is going to be too far.
& stopping a plasma blast just short is still stopping it.

& the CT needs to move its legs to attack the hydra. The hydra has multiple heads to reach in multiple angles, & it's not easy to kick or stomp if you're constantly trying to back away or side step.

Again, what stops it just moving to avoid the plasma fires, or countering with multiple higher AP breath attacks?

Similar durability?

Quoting myself from earlier:
"So yeah. The Cryohydra is comparable to either 2.57 or 4.86 Megatons of TNT.... & the Crimson Typhoon scales as Massively Superior to 0.476879063 Megatons.
Meaning the Cryohydra scales as comparable to a value roughly 5.389 times higher than the value that the Crimson Typhoon scales as "vastly superior" to.

Though, really, the gap is probably smaller, because the Crimson Typhoon got into Small City Level by being above a Large Town Level. If it's baseline, then the Hydra is at least 2.57 times stronger, if not 4.86 times stronger, seeing as Small City Level's baseline is 1 Megaton."

Blocking plasma gun fire with ice breath from multiple heads should be fasible, given the statistics gap.

Noted.

Unsure, though, D&D does allowedly scale Heat & Freezing to physicals (Most are done via magic. Universal energy source or such, IIRC?) & the version of the Hydra being used here is Low 7-B.

For what it's worth, Cone of Cold freezes about 15.574 cubic meters of water. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mr._Bambu/D&D_Calc:_Freezing_Sphere & is used for scaling of Building Level D&D Characters.
Presumably, the Cryohydra might be able to freeze over at least the CT's feet.

I would say the multiple attacks, the higher durability against everything but the Plasma Cannons, & the self-sealing, 2-to-1 regenerating heads that are a liability to hit despite that they're the topmost part of the hydra & the CT is very high up help the Cryohydra here.

It seems to me that using the max stats for this Hydra doesn't feel right, considering that it has a range of power and this isn't the biggest, 32 ft version of the Hydra. So it probably scales to Small Town Level or lower, not SMTL+. Similarly, you keep bringing up the necks being long, but they're still a part of the 20 ft full length of the animal. Yes, they're long for the creature's size, but they don't add any extra range. They wouldn't give it much in the way of angles of attack, either; its movement would give it some attack angles, but the distances between heads are minuscule compared to the scale of CT's parts. Also, according to the cone of cold explanation page, it only freezes living things solid if the blast kills them, and the attack is rated building level. I understand it would be stronger coming from multiple Hydra heads at once, but I'm not sure it would be able to stop a plasma blast, let alone several, from hitting the Hydra.

At this point, I don't know that there's much more to say, at least on my part. We're just repeating the same arguments again and again. If anyone else wants to contribute new ideas, that's great, but I don't know what else to say besides my vote goes to Crimson Typhoon for the reasons I've given.

 

[Imaginym]

It seems to me that using the max stats for this Hydra doesn't feel right, considering that it has a range of power and this isn't the biggest, 32 ft version of the Hydra. So it probably scales to Small Town Level or lower, not SMTL+.

Attack Potency: Varies from at least Wall level, likely Small Building level (As a CR 4[3] the weakest Hydras are superior to animals like the Rothé) up to at least Large Building level (The strongest regular Hydras, those being a 12 headed one are a CR 11[6] monster in 3.5e they should be on par with casters who can use Freezing Sphere), likely City Block level (Some comparable casters have managed such levels of power via the Control Water spell), possibly Multi-City Block level (Comparable to casters of Disintegrate, which can destroy a large temple) | Varies from Small Building level+ (The weakest Pyrohydras are a CR 6[3] which makes them comparable to casters capable of using Conjure Barrage) to Small City level+ (At their peak with 12 heads they're a CR 13[6] monster in 3.5e which makes them comparable to legendary dragons) | Varies from Small Building level+ to Small City level+ (Cryohydras are on par with Pyrohydras) | Building level (As a level 18[5] monster in 4e they're on par with casters who can cast Cone of Cold) | At least Small City level+ (As a level 25[7] monster in 4e they are on par with legendary dragons)

Based on the AP section, 12 headed hydras are exponentially more powerful than hydras with fewer heads.

Small Town Level is Low 7-C. This is a Low 7-B match. Baseline Small Town Level is 5.8 times lowe than baseline 7-C, Town Level. Baseline Town Level is ~17.5x time lowe than Baseline High 7-C, which is 10x lower than Low 7-B, & again, this is a Low 7-B match.

Also, there ARE no Small Town Level ratings for the Hydra, & if it were, it would be over 175 times, if not several hundreds of times weaker than the hydra involved in this match.

Similarly, you keep bringing up the necks being long, but they're still a part of the 20 ft full length of the animal.

How do we know it isn't from shoulder to tail?
The scan does not say it is measured head to tail, & unlike, say, a giraffe, this is a measure of length, rather than height; With the hydra's heads being upright, it feels a little odd to include them in a body length measurement rather than height measurement.

Yes, they're long for the creature's size, but they don't add any extra range. They wouldn't give it much in the way of angles of attack, either; its movement would give it some attack angles, but the distances between heads are minuscule compared to the scale of CT's parts. Also, according to the cone of cold explanation page, it only freezes living things solid if the blast kills them, and the attack is rated building level. I understand it would be stronger coming from multiple Hydra heads at once, but I'm not sure it would be able to stop a plasma blast, let alone several, from hitting the Hydra.

What do you mean several? I've only seen the CT fire a few at a time, & considering the CT is overpowered by at least 2 & a half times, stopping multiple plasma blasts, especially if they come 1 at a time, seems quite doable.

At this point, I don't know that there's much more to say, at least on my part. We're just repeating the same arguments again and again. If anyone else wants to contribute new ideas, that's great, but I don't know what else to say besides my vote goes to Crimson Typhoon for the reasons I've given.

I do feel like we're at somewhat of an impasse.

I hope you can forgive me if I hold my vote on the Hydra for the time being, sorry.
I do very much appreciate your debating here & with me, though, truly & sincerely.