MUI Goku stamina.Important!

[Dzhindzholia]

In VS matches people tend to forget about Goku's poor stamina.

In the end of episode 127 a narrator stated that 3 minutes remains before the end of TOP, and in the end of 128 he stated that 2 minutes remain.Goku went MUI at the end of 129 and lasted before the end of 130.We can assume that his stamina is only 1 minute or less,that should be noted in his weakness section.

And please dont right something like "But Goku was heavily injured and exhausted" because that is the rule to enter MUI and you have 0 evidences that he can last more.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Quick Bump.

 

[SuperDragonTard]

Eh, I think you're doing a disservice to Goku by dismissing his injuries. You say there's zero evidence, but you have the burden of proof to show us that a healthy Goku would have the same problems. Assumptions don't help.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Read carefully what i wrote.The birden of proof is on you,since Goku never turned UI immediately while he has a lot of stamina.

 

[Frantzy12]

Is that really a weakness? he seems to have excellent stamina going through all that for 40 minutes lol.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Yes it is a weakness when your most powerful form lasts less than a minute.I want that to be noted cause people always ignore his stamina and think he can fight in MUI form as much as he can.

 

[ByAsura]

It's noted by Whis that this is due to the toll of MUI, doesn't exactly prove that it only lasted one min due to that, but it Supporting evidence.

 

[SuperDragonTard]

I think you have failed to prove your point. You can't ignore aspects of a show just because you want to. Goku had a ki-disorder after the first time he used SSB Kaio-ken x10, yet he can now go SSB Kaio-ken x20 without suffering any negative effects. We don't know how long a healthy Goku would last in Ultra Instinct, because we haven't seen it. We also don't know whether Ultra Instinct can be attained without prior injury. You can't make assumptions when you don't have the supporting evidence.

By adding a qualifier, you actually should gain perspective. For instance, Goku was heavily injured throughout the tournament, surviving the explosion of a Spirit Bomb, an attack by Kefla that was stated to have the same power as the Spirit Bomb, a Pretty Black Hole with the love of a universe's living population, et cetera.

If you can prove that Goku's stamina in Ultra Instinct would be as poor if he had a different set of injuries, then go ahead. But I don't think there's enough evidence to support such claims. These were specific circumstances. At best, you could infer that a heavily-injured and stamina-depleted Goku would lose Ultra Instinct after an undefined period of time.

 

[ByAsura]

So he mitigated the Kaioken x10 weakness, even using Kaioken x20, that doesn't really matter, UI is far more powerful than the spirit bomb, which is in turn far more powerful than Kaioken x20. Goku was not that damaged while in MUI.

Goku contiuned to increase his energy by resting, and got back his energy from Vegeta, so that doesn't even matter. Hell, the fact that he can go MUI invalidates that, since he was so drained he couldn't even go Super Saiyan upon his first use of UI, and was constantly increasing his energy to go Blue and x20, or even UI.

Except there is, Whis says that the toll of MUI is great, this means it's mostly the form rather than injuries. Goku was still using powers vastly above what he had ever used, so his stamina probably didn't drop that much while fighting Jiren.

 

[SuperDragonTard]

It's clear that Goku was heavily injured. It was shown and stated multiple times. The entire tournament was about 48 minutes, so saying that Goku rested is kind of hilarious. We're talking about resting for a series of seconds. Goku was also gaining stamina while fighting Caulifla and Kale, so his stamina is pretty good. Being given energy is not the same as being healed, which is obvious. Goku used Super Saiyan at the end of the tournament when he had literally been on the ground unable to move seconds beforehand.

The toll of Ultra Instinct is specifically referenced to occur when Goku loses his stamina. It happened right after Goku fought Kefla. Even Jiren was amazed that Goku could keep fighting with hardly any stamina. I think the show made it easy to discern what happened.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

I dont understand what you are talking about,Goku needs to pass his limits to enter MUI of course he will be damaged etc.

In other words he has to be injured.

I want some knowladgable staff member to look at this,i dont want that thread to go on circles.

 

[Theglassman12]

You do know that getting injured is what saiyans do to get stronger right? That's where zenkai came into place.

 

[SuperDragonTard]

Yes, but you assumed that Goku couldn't last longer if he was not injured. That burden of proof is still on you.

 

[Golden_Void]

I agree with SDT

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Why do i have to right the obvious things several times?

Goku can't enter UI on his own,he has to go past his limits,it is obvious that he will be tierd as hell.

Am I wrong?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

The burden of proof is on you cause we never saw Goku using MUI more than 1 minute,you don't have feats or statements that suppoort your opinion.

 

[Theglassman12]

Again, stop with the assumptions. Bring proof that he cannot do it when he's at 100% condition. This is the same thing as me saying Goku cannot go super saiyan unless he's seriously injured.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Bruh,you are the one who should give me proofs that he can,I have an anime as my proof,and you have what?

 

[Golden_Void]

At his speed and power though he can easily beat an opponent around his power level handily before time runs out in the form. Less than a minute to him is a while. It's not really a weakness either, unless everyone on the wiki with low stamina would be getting revised.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

I just want to add that weakness to him since people think MUI is limitless,it is for people to decide who is the winner of a match.

And no,he can't easily beat an opponent equal to him.My personal opinion.

Edit: For example,it is noted in his DBZ profile that SSJ3 lasts only a couple of minutes.

 

[Theglassman12]

I have an anime as my proof,and you have what?

So apparently you're the only one who can use the anime as proof?.......Seems legit.

For the last time, stamina has never been an issue for goku at all. He went from barely managing kaioken times 4 to busting out kaioken time 10 from the saiyan saga to Frieza saga. He also went from having a decent amount of time staying in super saiyan form to being able to stay in that form for 10 days straight without the slightest hint of stress. Goku also went from using kaioken times 10 with SSB with a great deal of struggle to using SSB kaioken times 20 with no repercussions. And also one more thing, UI doesn't give any negative setbacks to goku's stamina or ki like these forms would. Show us proof that UI is going to be a huge problem for Goku to use when other forms he had to use when he was in a MUCH better condition wasn't hindering goku at all despite the more negative setbacks.

 

[Golden_Void]

Nobody said anything about easily, but he can still fight and win. That's considering the fact he stood around having conversations, not figting for the entire duration of the form, watching Jiren transform, etc.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

It depends on the fight and opponent,of course there are opponents that he can win against.It is for people to decide in the vsmatch.

 

[Heatforce]

doesn't the fact that Goku told Vegeta at the end of episode 131 that he can no longer enter UI prove the OPs point?

 

[SuperDragonTard]

No, what Goku said at the end does not prove the point. If injuries and stamina had anything to do with it, then all Goku would have to do is allow himself to get hurt or run out of stamina to use Ultra Instinct again. Clearly, it's not so simplistic since Goku stated that he can't. Goku said that he went Ultra Instinct on accident during the tournament. The technique is a state of mind, not merely one of physicality.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

What Goku tells Vegeta proves othing here.Anime proves that Goku can't last more than 1 minute in MUI.

 

[ByAsura]

It's clear that Goku was heavily injured. It was shown and stated multiple times. The entire tournament was about 48 minutes, so saying that Goku rested is kind of hilarious. We're talking about resting for a series of seconds. Goku was also gaining stamina while fighting Caulifla and Kale, so his stamina is pretty good. Being given energy is not the same as being healed, which is obvious. Goku used Super Saiyan at the end of the tournament when he had literally been on the ground unable to move seconds beforehand.
The toll of Ultra Instinct is specifically referenced to occur when Goku loses his stamina. It happened right after Goku fought Kefla. Even Jiren was amazed that Goku could keep fighting with hardly any stamina. I think the show made it easy to discern what happened.

He did not just rest for seconds, and he still got his energy and stamina back while fighting. Did Goku appear to have a single injury after he got his energy back? No, watch the scene again. I know energy does not heal someone, but it clearly does help, Frieza was on the ground basically crying and half dead, then Goku gave him energy and he was much better. What is your point here? Mine is that Goku's energy was so low that he literally couldn't go into Super Saiyan, which he had mastered to become energy efficient.

Ultra Instinct occurs when Goku breaks his limits by fighting spirit bomb levels of power. Jiren was not amazed in 109, 110, 130, or 131 (in reference to UI or MUI). Jiren actually says the opposite, "You still have this much power left" is what he says when fighting MUI.

I am not saying Goku lost MUI with full stamina by the way, just that the stamina thing is the biggest part. Also, just one last thing, MUI didn't even last a minute, it deformed part way through that.

 

[Theglassman12]

@ByAsura No injury from Frieza at all?? So him getting bisected by his own attack is apparently not an injury at all right?

 

[ByAsura]

I did not say that at all. Please re read what I said.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

What even are this threads anymore..?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

1 minute to a MFTL+ character of Goku's level is years.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

1 minute to a MFTL+ character of Goku's level is years.

The Tournament of Power proved this much seeing as the whole arc was 48 minutes and you see all the shit that went down during that time. lol

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Dragon

Would have been way longer if the spectators didn't talk so much lol.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"This planet will explode in 5 minutes"lol.

Still should be noted in profile.Even if it is centuries.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Dragon
Would have been way longer if the spectators didn't talk so much lol.

Ahem...It's called helpful insight and commentary.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

"This planet will explode in 5 minutes"lol.

Still should be noted in profile.Even if it is centuries.

72 quadrillion c is 2.7x10^24 times faster than fast running speed. This means one of their minutes is 2.7x10^24 of our minutes. That means, to Goku, one minute is 5.2 QUINTILLION years. 377456765 Times longer than the current age of the universe.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

If anything, maybe just put in "not last long" and not a specific timeframe like a minute?

I agree a minute is pointless because of above but the former should be reasonably okay yes?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Yeah,that is cool but can we add it?Fiction doesn't follow that time logic,with speed equalized that 1 minute is going to be his biggest weakness.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Honestly what even is speed equal? "Ignore speed" just doesn't work. I'll need to make a thread about this later, since equalizing speed would change timeframes.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

It isn't pointless,a lot of profiles have such things,actually 1 minute is more than he lasted against Jiren.I just decided that 1 minute looks better. than something like "40 seconds" etc.