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Morgoth vs Alduin

He won't try to make a new shout, he starts with eating his opponent or their powers. Still, it doesn't seem like most shouts are conceptual, just a few.
 
Alduin FRA

Voidhax and better Conceptual Manip should be enough.
 
Alduin erases people from time, which is stronger than what the value did to morgoth which is erase him apparently, i don't remember them trying to erase them tho, they just cast him into the void.
 
Iisdude1 said:
Alduin erases people from time, which is stronger than what the value did to morgoth which is erase him apparently, i don't remember them trying to erase them tho, they just cast him into the void.
Click to expand...
Morgoth traveled and existed in the great void so void hax won't work.

I also remember him resisting EE from the valar
 
Being in a void is not the same resisting void manipulation.

Do you know where is is said the valar tried to erase him?
 
Existing inside a void doesn't grant you a resistance to void manipulation hax, and void manipulation is far more powerful than existence erasure.
 
The dragon ball characters are fog he omg in a void, but that does don't mean they resist a void actually trying to erase them.
 
The valar only tried to erase, while alduin can erase his opponent from history, this has been explained twice.
 
Morgoth exists before space-time is created, he cannot be killed or erased. At most he can be trapped by the power of the Valar combined and that is only when he was weaker.

Melkor at the top of his power easily dominates Alduin.
 
Existing before time and space doesn't prove that he resist void manipulation at Alduin's level. And saying he cannot be erased by erasure that exceed anything that he had tanked in LOTR is not an argument.
 
It means that he is indifferent to that. Melkor cannot be erased, no spirit in Tolkien Universe can. This is a prerogative of the metaphysical rules of each Universe. Alduin can erase people in his Universe. This does not mean that he can do this in another Universe.
 
What? So what if he is indifferent to it.? That still doesn't prove anything. Show me actual proof where he has resisted getting erased by void manipulation at Alduin's level that could erase someone from all possible pasts, present and future. A lot of character exists before space-time, but that doesn't mean that they somehow able to resist getting erased by erasure hax far higher than what they have shown to resist.
 
Not even Elvish spirits can be erased from time and plane, let alone Morgoth.

. Since no fea can be annihilated, reduced to zero or not-existing, ''Home Vol.10 Morgoth's Ring

Morgoth cannot be erased, annihilated or reduced to nonexistence.There is nothing that Alduin can do against him with respect to Void manipulation.

You can ignore this and create a fake Morgoth, not Tolkien's, and assume that Alduin can erase him. But that would be completely ridiculous.
 
Ishneray said:
Not even Elvish spirits can be erased from time and plane, let alone Morgoth.

. Since no fea can be annihilated, reduced to zero or not-existing, ''Home Vol.10 Morgoth's Ring

Morgoth cannot be erased, annihilated or reduced to nonexistence.There is nothing that Alduin can do against him with respect to Void manipulation.

You can ignore this and create a fake Morgoth, not Tolkien's, and assume that Alduin can erase him. But that would be completely ridiculous.
Click to expand...
That's an NLF. There are a couple of problems with your argument.

1. Just because the book mentions that he can't be erased, that doesn't mean he resist Alduin's void manipulation. That would be NLF. In hindsight, this would give Morgoth resistance to existence erasure, but you would still need to prove that he can resist erasure at Alduin's level that is capable of erasing someone from a Kalpa, with this Kalpa having many pasts, presents and futures.

2. No, it's not ridiculous. I'm arguing based on feats. If Morgoth has no feats of surviving void manipulation at Alduin's level, then he doesn't resist it. That's how this wiki works.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep, so I won't be able to respond for a while.
 
This is a prerogative in Tolkien Universe, it is not a question of level of power, if it is Alduin, or any other character, it is a metaphysical impossibility in Eä, a Un├ít, only Eru can do that.

To say 'Morgoth has no evidence of resistance against Alduin' is completely nonsense, to your logic there is no evidence to the contrary either, the two characters exist in different Universes with different rules.

There are no problems with my argument because it is based on the consideration of what each of the characters can or cannot do;

' but you would still need to prove that he can resist erasure at Alduin's level

Since no fea can be annihilated, reduced to zero or not-existing, ''Home Vol.10 Morgoth's Ring

Maybe you need to prove that Alduin can.

that is capable of erasing someone from a Kalpa, with this Kalpa having many pasts, presents and futures.

To say that Alduin can erasing someone from a Kalpa means nothing. Melkor is not in a Kalpa Nor is he part of the its Universe..

No, it's not ridiculous. I'm arguing based on feats. .

Nope you also haven't proved that Alduin can erase Melkor. There is no feat to Alduin.

If Morgoth has no feats of surviving void manipulation at Alduin's level, then he doesn't resist it. That's how this wiki works

This is a fallacy of ignorance. Since Alduin has no feats of resisting fragrance of colorful flowers, then he doens't.

The Main argument is:

- You are saying that a Videogame character can erase Morgoth.

- Tolkien himself says that Morgoth cannot be erased.



That's enough proof for me.
 
If this was alduin from the game morgoth would one-shot

Also i went thro morgoths page and it does not say he resit either void or ER
 
if this same argument, i can say that Itachi wins against morgoth because its told in lore that just a uchiha can defeat him, see, this dont make sense, because they have a very different power level
 
or ganondorf, because he can only be defeated by the master sword, this is what Waria and other people are trying to say, because its in lore, dont mean, its all true or valid when in another verse
 
As far as i remember we use the manga for naruto not some out there lore and obvious NLF like the whole itachi thing

and for TES we use the lore because the games limit a lot of the verse to such unrealistic limitations like not being able to scrash a tree etc.
 
i am trying to compare itachi NLF to Morgoth cant be erased NLF to make myself clear, sorry my english is not so good
 
Ishneray said:
This is a prerogative in Tolkien Universe, it is not a question of level of power, if it is Alduin, or any other character, it is a metaphysical impossibility in Eä, a Un├ít, only Eru can do that.

To say 'Morgoth has no evidence of resistance against Alduin' is completely nonsense, to your logic there is no evidence to the contrary either, the two characters exist in different Universes with different rules.

There are no problems with my argument because it is based on the consideration of what each of the characters can or cannot do;

' but you would still need to prove that he can resist erasure at Alduin's level

Since no fea can be annihilated, reduced to zero or not-existing, ''Home Vol.10 Morgoth's Ring

Maybe you need to prove that Alduin can.

that is capable of erasing someone from a Kalpa, with this Kalpa having many pasts, presents and futures.

To say that Alduin can erasing someone from a Kalpa means nothing. Melkor is not in a Kalpa Nor is he part of the its Universe..

No, it's not ridiculous. I'm arguing based on feats. .

Nope you also haven't proved that Alduin can erase Melkor. There is no feat to Alduin.

If Morgoth has no feats of surviving void manipulation at Alduin's level, then he doesn't resist it. That's how this wiki works

This is a fallacy of ignorance. Since Alduin has no feats of resisting fragrance of colorful flowers, then he doens't.

The Main argument is:

- You are saying that a Videogame character can erase Morgoth.

- Tolkien himself says that Morgoth cannot be erased.



That's enough proof for me.
Click to expand...
Except that using that kind of logic would led to things like NLF. This wiki uses feats to measured it's characters. And they are not fighting in ea, they are fighting in New York. I reccomend you to read the Standard Battle Assumption page first.

Except that his ability to erase someone from time is in his profile. You are new here, so you don't know, but we are arguing based on what is in the profile and characters' feats.

No, your argument is based on an assumption that just because a character can't be erased on a level of erasure that LOTR universe have, that means that they can survive getting erased by something much greate, which is a No Limit Fallacy.

Except the whole entire game? The whole plot of Skyrim is you trying to stop Alduin from erasing a kalpa, which is a kalpa.

No, it's not a fallacy of ignorance. I'm dismissing it not based on what I believe, but based on the fact that there is insufficient proof that can support your argument.
 
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
How does Alduin resist the Thu'um
Click to expand...
when you learn a thu'um you engrave the concept on your soul so for example

Someone uses time stop or time manipulation on you, but then you learn the shout Stop time now if that person tries to use his hax again on you it wont work.
 
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