MLP Speed Upgrade (Infinite/Immeasurable)

[Lightbuster30]

Recently, the Dream Realm was added to the cosmology of the verse, and then scaled to. While currently, the scaling is only for AP-related stats, I believe there is a feat that can also be used to scale to speed as well. In the follow-up thread to the cosmology thread, I suggested that in addition to Luna creating shared dreams across an entire town, we also use Celestia sending out a wave of magic that washed through all of Equestria's dreams, warping them back to normal.

By itself, since all dreams contain an infinite hallway of doors, the wave would be traversing infinite distance. However, since dreams are a blend of the past, present, and future I think an argument for immeasurable magic speed exists, via passing through a construct containing the past, present, and future at once.

I suggest either one of three options if accepted:
Infinite, likely/possibly Immeasurable
Infinite by itself
Immeasurable by itself

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

As much as I'd like to say just Infinite or Immeasurable by themselves,
Infinite, likely/possibly Immeasurable is what I'd personally go for.
The "safest" is just doing Infinite though

 

[StrymULTRA]

Is there evidence that scales to the physical speed? Like UES or something similar?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

That would be infinite via the wave. If they are not shown to be able to move at the same speed as such then it would be attack speed or projectile speed.

Dreams containing a blend of past present and future will not grant immeasurable if the way to access those dreams are present such as portals or doors.
It wouldn't grant anything to the attacker as it is the nature of the hallway.

since it did say it was a wave then it being simply ranged is out of the option.
So infinite speed of said attack i can agree.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, affecting past, present and future is just range of that ability, Immeasurable is if the wave physically travels through the eras as well.

So infinite is the thing I can see here.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Dreams containing a blend of past present and future will not grant immeasurable if the way to access those dreams are present such as portals or doors.
It wouldn't grant anything to the attacker as it is the nature of the hallway.

That's fair as far as the future goes, but wouldn't the wave passing through the past aspects of the dream still count for non-linear projectile speed? The hallway exists only for the future. No such doorways or gateways are present for accessing the parts of the dream containing the past.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's fair as far as the future goes, but wouldn't the wave passing through the past aspects of the dream still count for non-linear projectile speed? The hallway exists only for the future. No such doorways or gateways are present for accessing the parts of the dream containing the past.

Issue is that it shows traveling only through the physical space and not also their time. Yes, time was affected but it's not shown traveling through it.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Issue is that it shows traveling only through the physical space and not also their time. Yes, time was affected but it's not shown traveling through it.

I feel like if the wave has to physically travel through the dream to affect it, and time was being affected, it would've traveled through time in the processes. It seems like it's implied.

If the wave has enough range to affect the past without traveling through it, then it would've affected vast sections of the dream at the same time, instead of only affecting things it makes direct contact with. We can see the bottom half of the dream are still a nightmare, while the top half is reverted to normal.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I feel like if the wave has to physically travel through the dream to affect it, and time was being affected, it would've traveled through time in the processes. It seems like it's implied.

If the wave has enough range to affect the past without traveling through it, then it would've affected vast sections of the dream at the same time, instead of only affecting things it makes direct contact with. We can see the bottom half of the dream are still a nightmare, while the top half is reverted to normal.

Issue is that is your average Tier 2 attack.

Attacks from lots of Tier 2 characters are shown to spread only in the present, but yet they affect all the time.

AoE is different from speed, that's the funny thing.

 

[Lightbuster30]

.

I think I have more to say on this, or maybe I don't, but until I do, I'd like to discuss another contender for immeasurable speed, seeing as I already tried with this thread, I figured I'd ask now instead of later. What about inter-Universal travel?

Yeah, I've read the page, but if parallel Universes have their own individual timeline, wouldn't forcing your way out of one Universe and into another involve leaving your Universe's timeline in the process?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think I have more to say on this, or maybe I don't, but until I do, I'd like to discuss another contender for immeasurable speed, seeing as I already tried with this thread, I figured I'd ask now instead of later. What about inter-Universal travel?

Yeah, I've read the page, but if parallel Universes have their own individual timeline, wouldn't forcing your way out of one Universe and into another involve leaving your Universe's timeline in the process?

Inter Universe travel is not Immeasurable, as they're not necessarily traveling through the time axis, but simply outside of it.

You never see inter dimensional travel being treated as beyond time or stuff, in fiction people take time also to travel through universes.

So yeah, I don't think that fits too.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Inter Universe travel is not Immeasurable, as they're not necessarily traveling through the time axis, but simply outside of it.

When you put it like that, traveling outside the time axis via speed sorta sounds superior. Standard immeasurable is only enough to travel through it, whereas inter Universal travel would be so fast the axis can't contain you.

 

[StrymULTRA]

When you put it like that, traveling outside the time axis via speed actually sounds superior. Standard immeasurable is only enough to travel through it, whereas inter Universal travel would be so fast the axis can't contain you.

I worded it weirdly.

I meant that it's not really necessary Immeasurable speed to travel through universes, as the distance between them is not confirmed to be even infinite, it's just unknown.

They're different space times, yes, but the distance between them is not necessarily that big to require above MFTL+ speed unless explicitly stated.

 

[Lightbuster30]

They're different space times, yes, but the distance between them is not necessarily that big to require above MFTL+ speed unless explicitly stated.

I'm not really talking about their distance, I know it can't be quantified. My argument is based on previous conversations that led me to believe IU travel meant leaving that Universes flow of time and into anothers.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm not really talking about their distance, I know it can't be quantified. My argument is based on previous conversations that led me to believe IU travel meant leaving that Universes flow of time and into anothers.

Issue it's that nothing says they're traveling through time. They're not travelling across the time axis, they're only traveling to the space of a different universe, with time clearly passing.

Immeasurable assumes they're traveling across the time stream, aka also through the eras of said universes.

 

[Phoenks]

Agree with infinite speed.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I remember the days when 4-B and MFTL+ were a big deal. Man

I agree with Infinite Speed, neutral on Immeasurable.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Bump.

I kinda want to say that if the past is a physical location, that sorta implies the wave would have to physically pass through all of it. It's true that most attacks in tier 2 have some "invisible range" that affects the past, but I'm pretty certain that in almost all cases, the past isn't a location you can travel to outside of time travel.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It doesn't really contradict my point buddy

 

[Lightbuster30]

If there's an invisible range like a sort of shockwave, then it would be traveling into the past to affect it, would it not? How would that even work when all points in time are blended into one unified reality? The past isn't mixed into the present in real life. The way dreams are described, they sound like a non-linear structure

If there were feats of them generating a magic attack, said attack generating a shockwave, then reacting before said shockwave can hit, would that count out of curiosity?

Mind you, I only suggest a shockwave because in a tier 2 attack, I feel like something has to be destroying the time aspect. So if it's not the main attack, then some invisible force emitted from the attack (Shockwave for instance) has to be doing the rest of the work. Something has to be outputting the invisible range.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah but that's separate from the wave you're arguing the speed.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Yeah but that's separate from the wave you're arguing the speed.

Wouldn't shockwaves generated from a magic attack scale to shockwaves from the wave I'm arguing? Just like how magic blasts would be scaled to speed of the direct wave?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wouldn't shockwaves generated from a magic attack scale to shockwaves from the wave I'm arguing? Just like how magic blasts would be scaled to speed of the direct wave?

Nah, because it's only a side effect. The "physical" wave is only the one that traveled through the physical universes.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Nah, because it's only a side effect. The "physical" wave is only the one that traveled through the physical universes.

Just another quick question; because this one leads into a bigger question: What are your thoughts on infinite speed thus far? We've been discussing immeasurable so far because of whether or not the wave had time traveling aftereffects, but not sure if I ever got any opinions on the infinite speed key.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just another quick question; because this one leads into a bigger question: What are your thoughts on infinite speed thus far? We've been discussing immeasurable so far because of whether or not the wave had time traveling aftereffects, but not sure if I ever got any opinions on the infinite speed key.

I already said that I agree with infinite if I remember correctly.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I already said that I agree with infinite if I remember correctly.

Right, so if the wave traveled through the future; a physical plane in the dream realm, what reason do we have to believe the wave didn't do the same to the past, which is also a physical plane in the dream realm?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Right, so if the wave traveled through the future; a physical plane in the dream realm, what reason do we have to believe the wave didn't do the same to the past, which is also a physical plane in the dream realm?

Wait, the wave physically traveled to the future? Because in the scans you linked in the OP I see only that traveling through the present of these realities.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Wait, the wave physically traveled to the future? Because in the scans you linked in the OP I see only that traveling through the present of these realities.

The logic is that she warped their dreamscapes. Since the infinite timelines are but one location in the dream, I concluded that the actual dream is > all points in time within it. As I mentioned earlier, I believe dreams are a non-linear structure of time since all points in time are physically existant.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Again, I never said that dreams aren't universes, but you don't need immeasurable speed to affect that, just range.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Again, I never said that dreams aren't universes, but you don't need immeasurable speed to affect that, just range.

Universes don't physically contain all points in time. 1 second into the past doesn't exist as another location in the present Universe.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Universes don't physically contain all points in time. 1 second into the past doesn't exist as another location in the present Universe.

They do, this is how characters are Low 2-C from destroying them.

And yes, time is assumed to flow the same in all the universes.

 

[Phoenks]

Affecting an entire timeline is range, not speed.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Do we really know if Celestia's magic travelled through the infinite hallways? Is it possible that Nightmare Moon just affected the parts of the dreams that ponies were experiencing?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Do we really know if Celestia's magic travelled through the infinite hallways? Is it possible that Nightmare Moon just affected the parts of the dreams that ponies were experiencing?

Has nothing to do with Nightmare Moon. The only thing relevant about her is using her for proof of Celestia's wave hitting the Nightmares in all Equestria.

More to the point: No, that's again not the point. The argument for infinite is the infinite hallway being one location inside the dream. Therefore the collective dream has infinite space. We know Celestia affected the entire dream because it is said she outright erased them + the warped memories Nightmare Moon created.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Has nothing to do with Nightmare Moon. The only thing relevant about her is using her for proof of Celestia's wave hitting the Nightmares in all Equestria.

More to the point: No, that's again not the point. The argument for infinite is the infinite hallway being one location inside the dream. Therefore the collective dream has infinite space. We know Celestia affected the entire dream because it is said she outright erased them + the warped memories Nightmare Moon created.

Where is it stated she outright erased the dreams?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Where is it stated she outright erased the dreams?

Here.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Here.

Alright, infinite speed is probably good then. Although...if Celestia erased dreams that connect to potential futures, does that mean she wiped out those universes?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Alright, infinite speed is probably good then. Although...if Celestia erased dreams that connect to potential futures, does that mean she wiped out those universes?

Yes.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yes.

Genocidal Celestia ftw

 

[Lightbuster30]

Question to pretty much everyone: But if Celestia sent out a magic wave that hit every dream, wouldn't that mean the Shockwave traveled through time physically by default?

So, hear me out. Affecting the entirety of the dream physically would be immeasurable right? So, if the magic wave spread and Affected other dreams, wouldn't that make said wave physically bigger than the dreams?

Like, imagine doing the same thing to a cluster of planets. Naturally the wave would be bigger than each planet in order to cover each one right?

If it's physically bigger than the dreams, wouldn't that technically make the wave tier 2 in sheer size?