Misogi Kumagawa vs Dragon ball.

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I think y'all forget that Hakai is not instantaneous. All Fiction will still be able to negate it part way through the process

 

[Akreious]

The process of Hakai is really REALLY fast. Can you show me an instance where All Fiction instantaneously stops attacks like that? Also All-Fiction is getting erased along with Misogi, no amount of "oh but all Fiction still exists!" Is going to cut it.

 

[TheOneBelowAll123]

Why are you treating soul erasure like regular death? Resurrecting from erased soul is nowhere near comparable to regular resurrection, which is All Fiction's best feat.

All fiction can make it so an event never happened its not normal resurection its way beyond that.

Also all fiction activates on it own after kumagawas death withought him doing anything unless there is proof that all fiction is somehow linked to the soul and whould thus be eraced by hakai i dont see why kumagawa chouldnt just undo it.

 

[Mr._Common_Sense]

@Akreious

Like I stated before. If the God's manage to get off Hakai succussfully, Kumagawa loses. However, the presentation we have seen with Hakai is nowhere fast as All Fiction. Plus, Kumagawa has so many ways of getting ahead of Hakai either by erasing Ki in general from the entire universe, erase time for himself allow him it to become zero so that his movements become virtually instantaneous, granting him Pseudo-Teleportation, heavy increase on All Fiction speed too, ect ect other ways.

So, let's bring up Hakai's speed of what we have seen so far from the anime and manga.

Beerus vs Ghost Mashirito: Ghost Mashirito was still able to get off a sentence while being erased.



Belmod erasing a mortal. The mortal girl was still able to scream in time during erasure.




Sidra erasing the city. We still see due to the massive area the city takes time to be fully erased.



Beerus vs Zamasua. Zamasua was still able to scream during his erasing.



Goku vs Zamasua. Zamasua had enough time to kidnap Mai during his erasing.


So, far from sentence structure to screaming to kidnapping. Kumagawa has more than enough time to activate All Fiction.

 

[TheOneBelowAll123]

I personaly believe all fiction can undo hakai all fiction can make it so an event never happened and i just dont see hakai bypassing that.Plus all fiction has never shown that it needs a soul to activate.

 

[Akreious]

@TheOneBelowAll123

So you're gonna ignore that Hakai erases the All-Fiction along with Misogi huh...

@Mr Common Sense

While those indeed take time, I don't think it's out of the question for it to be faster. Most of those were ultra casual (Not in a scenario where the GoD in question is actually super serious. The only real one would probably be Zamasu and he didn't even really pose a threat) and Goku's Hakai has been noted to not be as powerful as the one done by GoDs. You can quote me on that, bring another Dragon Ball Knowledgable in here.

Also I DID say "Excuse my lack of knowledge" on the topic of All-Fiction. Please bring up some feats for that too? Because Misogi's profile on here is kind of useless in terms of info on All-Fiction.

 

[TheOneBelowAll123]

@TheOneBelowAll123
So you're gonna ignore that Hakai erases the All-Fiction along with Misogi huh...

All fiction activates on its own after kumagawas death eiven if kumagawa dies it can still activate withought him doing anything there dasent need to be anything left of kumagawa in order for all fiction to activate seeing as it makes it so his death never eiven happened so eiven if hakai destroys kumagawas soul all fiction whould still activate seeing as its not linked to his soul and that it can activate withought kumagawa himself being alive.There is nothing to sugest that all fiction whouldnt remain after hakai is used on kumagawa.

 

[Akreious]

Uhh no. I don't think All-Fiction has existence erasure resistance. Until it is proven that it does, it's going to get erased along with Misogi. Also, Hakai doesn't "Kill" someone in the traditional sense. People in the Dragon Ball Universe when they die go to the other world. Hakai doesn't even do that, you just stop existing.

 

[TheOneBelowAll123]

I also dont think all fiction has existance erasure resistanse however i believe that it can undo hakai due to it being an extremily weaker form of existance erasure than all fiction.Form what we have seen hakai just disintegrates the body and destroys the soul,while that is considered existance erasure its still a way weaker example of it than all fiction which erases the reality in which something existed.All fiction can definitely handle kumagawas body geting disintegrated and soul destruction is not going to effect all fiction seeing as its not linked to the soul and just brings kumagawa back on its own withought him needing to do anything.

Also there are still a lot of stuf we dont know about all fiction and hakai so making reasonable assumption only based on what we know is next to impossible.

 

[AnonymouXOtakuX]

there are multiple ways this plays out

1. GoDs and zeno erase and he doesn't come back = DB wins

2. he erases them = Kumagawa wins

3. he can come back from erasure = inconclusive

4. There is really no way to know the answer so = inconclusive

Explaning AF (All Fiction)

its causality manipulation (CA), not EE so i don't know how it would affect the battle

Basically, its down to the debate of Hakai vs AF

One can say that hakai wins because kumagawa hasn't shown being able to comback after being hit with something like that, assuming it would be NLF (i think)

Another could say that Since its causality Manip, he could "Undo" it by negating the effect and since saying that gettin hakai'd will make it so you can't comeback even with CA is a baseless statement.

i will note that:

its also baseless to say that AF can activate after being erased, since everything that is Kumagawa will be erased, including his powers and abilities.

Hakai has shown to be slower than AF, so kumagawa could activate it before it completly erases him.

My opinion, its inconclusive

 

[TheOneBelowAll123]

Okay then if we cant come to a reasonable conclusion based on the information we have i am fine with the match being inconclusive

 

[Joseph619]

All Fiction is both Existence Erasure and Causality Manipulation. It has both applications, along with resurrection

 

[AnonymouXOtakuX]

@Joseph, no. it's not EE, it can be applied/Used as EE, its not both CA and EE, just CA. with it, he warps reality, removing both the cause and effect, basically turning something nonexistent.

 

[Akreious]

Although even with this, he definitely stops at Zen'O since his version is all at once and nigh Instant.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Although even with this, he definitely stops at Zen'O since his version is all at once and nigh Instant.

you forget that Kumagawa still speed blitzes

 

[Akreious]

"Huh, my friends are all disappearing and Goku mysteriously disappeared. That's no fun, there's no epic fight. This guy his killing everyone, Grand Priest? Get him out of here! Squish!" Would be how I imagine it'd go down. And even if you say "oh he has to actually fight Zen'O for him to do anything" then I can argue it's very in-character for Zen'O to erase immediately as Misogi killed literally every other strong fighter in the verse.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So to put an end to this, Kumagawa clears no problem. Here is why:

1. Hakkai? Bitch pls let me see them hakkai kumagawa when hakkai takes ages and it could need a target, over AF which is basically the power of nothingness. All Fiction isn't erased from any bullshit btw, All Fiction is a minus and all minuses ,as stated by KUMAGAWA himself and has a proof in fight, can't be erased/made so that they never happened. So there goes hakkai.

2. Zeno, are we even sure what he does is not just hakkai on a much bigger scale, and why did he even do the 2 thingies on his hand and do all that shit to erase zamasu if he can just erase stuff.

3. Book Maker bitches, it's litteraly a negation to EVERYTHING, power, intelligence, talent, and even wound transfer (gonna have to recheck on the wound transfer, not 100% sure), i mean : Step 1: time erasure to put book maker on everyone Step 2: gg everyone is now ur bitch "LITERALLY".

4. It Doesn't even matter whether AF is CA or EE, he can erase everything, no limitation, not restricted to actions, he can erase ppl, time, colors, stuff like "sight" (not eyeballs just pure sight), and "efforts"? Anyway u get my point, there doesn't need to be an action to be all fiction.

So i hope that convinces everyone. Kumagawa can't be beat even if zeno rly does simply erase, even if it's flat out erasing , as long as All Fiction exists (which it will cus it can't be erased) kumagawa will be there, our loser never dies.

 

[TheOneBelowAll123]

It Dasen't matter whether AF is CA or EE, he can erase everything, no limitation, not restricted to actions, he can erase ppl, time, colors, stuff like "sight" (not eyeballs just pure sight), and "efforts"? Anyway u get my point, there doesn't need to be an action to be all fiction..

Saying that all fiction can erase everything with no limitation is kind of a no limits fallacy plus kumagawa was unable to erase emukes minus so that prooves that there are some things he can not erase.

I am not saying that he whould loose just that all fiction has at least some limitations.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It Dasen't matter whether AF is CA or EE, he can erase everything, no limitation, not restricted to actions, he can erase ppl, time, colors, stuff like "sight" (not eyeballs just pure sight), and "efforts"? Anyway u get my point, there doesn't need to be an action to be all fiction..

Saying that all fiction can erase everything with no limitation is kind of a no limits fallacy plus kumagawa was unable to erase emukes minus so that prooves that there are some things he can not erase.
I am not saying that he whould loose just that all fiction has at least some limitations.

Not exactly, like i already said, "Minuses can't be erased" they are Immune To Erasure. It's not "all" no limits, it's normal stuff no limits, he can't erase Medaka, Ajumu, Minuses (which all have Erasure Immunity) and he couldn't erase Ihiko who was immune to any power including omnipotent powers (it is said even omnipotence can't beat him, cus nothing "reaches" him). But none of them count, cus they are specific stuff made to counter All Fiction. So when i say "erase everything no limits" it's a no brainier than Erasure Immunity is out of the question (unless he uses Book Maker lol)

 

[SchroKatze]

Fanboy alert.

Minuses CAN be erased with strong enough EE.

"Omnipotence can't reach Iihiko"... That's bullshit. Any true conceptual power can bypass that shit defense.

Medaka box has only universal feats at best.