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Mr Pigeon’s Eiffel Tower feat. 151 KT IIRC.
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Miraculous Ladybug General Discussion 2
- Thread starter Gilad_Hyperstar
- Start date
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Ah.
Isn't there an issue where Invulnerability can't beat sufficiently stats?
Or is that just No Limits Fallacy that means invulnerability can't necessarily stand up to high enough statistical differences?
Because AFAIK, All For One, scales to High 6-A, higher with Ultimate Quirk Combination | High 6-A, higher with Rewind Drug, far higher with Omni-Factor Unleash
Because of... AFAIK, a 42.37 Petatons feat by Idzuku Midoriya?
IDK how much AFO scales above it by, but....
42.37 Petatons / 151.025 Kilotons of TNT = 280 billion 550 million.
& the Ox Miraculous's Invulnerability is noted, even on our profile for it, to not work on physical attacks, even those from Miraculous Holders.
IDK if that would mean it would or wouldn't work against Quirks which are largely biological or physics based rather than magical, especially ones like air cannons, springlike limbs, kinetic energy boosters, etc.
Anyway, point is, I'm unsure the Ox Miraculous's Invulnerability could actually accomplish anything against AP literally hundreds of billions times higher than Hawkmoth's own scaling point.
Then again, Kwamis probably scale a lot higher than their users do otherwise, no?
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As far as I’m aware, ”Real” Invulnerabilty caps at High 3-A unless stated otherwise because at that point forwards you exceed Infinite output.
As long as it’s not a superpower…
It’s weird to think about it on those terms since it seems a pedantic aspect. But super strength that’s not a power will be able to affect it… which, again, sounds weird, but it’s how it works.
AFO can probably swat Monarch by this standard… unless he uses a super strength quirk. Don’t ask.
In the Miraculous universe Magic isn’t the only source of superpowers (Which why the NY’s heroes exists. There’s people without magic that just have superpowers like Majestia). The Ox Miraculous on itself was not created for fights with other Miraculouses with magical powers (that’s the result of the Butterfly and Peacock Miraculous getting lost), it was created eons ago to protect humankind from wherever danger might appear.
If Quirks qualify as ”not a super-power“ then that’s fine. But on Miraculous’ side it doesn’t seams that the point is for the Ox to be inmune to magic specifically. It’s the manifestation of the concept of Determination.
Monarch doesn’t gets a set durability from Resistance because it’s just invulnerability, but if you want to slap it a value, then consider the fact that Plagg’s Cataclysm, who canonically can’t control his power, bounced off on Monarch after he went for the kill.
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Fair. Thanks for the info. & yeah, I forgot about a lot of those nuances that you mentioned. So it'd come down to if AFO can hit Monarch.
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As far as i know Quirks are super abilities of those who have, also i'm trying to fix profiles as adding scans, references, Statistic values as you can see from new ones i'm making
I don't think AFO have something to deal with time travel or Monarch's other haxes like self-power bestowal, ınvulnurability, illusion, elemental control and many more i have applied the most of abilities has as monarch
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Monarch will fumble that one himself by choosing to be invisible or the power to fly (even though he has the recipes for the power-up potions…).
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I blame the plot ngl, it depends on the situation, he chooses invisibility to catch holders unguard such as planning a suprrise attack to Cat noir and Ladybug and to Scarabella and Kitty Noir, choosed power to fly for spreading the dream dust to entire world
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The matter of Speed comes to mind again, though. (Second Chance requires a gesture, Burrow requires going into a hole.)
Invulnerability won't work against mere physical force.
Illusion may have some answers:
- Analytical Prediction (Was able to predict that Lady Nagant would betray him.[6] His vestige was able to predict the timing and angle of Deku's next attack despite the latter being too fast to perceive[7])
- Enhanced Senses (He "sees" through infrared light, and uses sounds and vibrations to inform him of physical movements, and can even sense people's emotions and the surrounding layout[12])
- Extrasensory Perception and Information Analysis (Can monitor up to 100 people and analyze their weaknesses[14])
- Lie Detection (Can sense when people are lying to him[17])
- Mind Manipulation (Possesses a Quirk that lets him take control of a person's mind and body by placing his hand on their head[18])
- Telekinesis (Can levitate objects without touching them[2])
"All For One is blind and is thus forced to rely on his Infrared Ray Quirk and his other senses to properly fight."
& he's constantly masked, so Gabriel may not realize he has normal vision, depending on when illusions are tried.
AFO has a lot of abilities himself. Since you mentioned Elemental Control, besides Air Manipulation, if we're accounting for Final War Key abilities, he has Fire, Electricity, Light & Darkness Manipulation. Explosion Manipulation, too.
Also:
- Forcefield Creation (Can create barriers to protect himself from physical attacks, and even layer multiple on top of each other[25])
Also also, 2 can play at the illusions game:
- Fear and Illusion Inducement (His mere presence caused hallucinations of death to Deku, Todoroki, Red Riot, Ingenium, and Creati[4])
- Immortality and Possession (Type 6 and Spiritual Possession. Can transfer his Quirk and spirit into another person to take over their body[9])
- Mind Manipulation (Possesses a Quirk that lets him take control of a person's mind and body by placing his hand on their head[18])
They don't have all the same powers, but they have a lot of overlap, as well as parallels.
Re-asking about this stuff about Speed:
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Burrow can be opened in anyway you can eve open in under your own legs also Monarch can ise shell-ter and burrow at the same time to not get hit
If the AP is coming from a super ability ınvulnurability will work still btw but if it is pure AP yeah
Also for this ox miraculous can be immune to this if they are Supernatural
Monarch has resistance to these two because of Miraculous physilogy extrasensory perception is lowk limited too but he can't analyze Monarch's abilities also rooster miraculous and some akumatized villains have extrasensory perception which means ox miraculous would be immune to
Idk how lie detection will help
Depends on the LS GAP and ox miraculous
So Ray quirk is a super ability that can be blocked by ox miraculous
True he creates illusion his illusions aren't manipulatin mind
I see
Yes
Ox miraculous
Well if he use time travel before he gets his powers then that would be useless
Yes Monarch have Hypersonic travel speed with FTL combat and reactions that can blitz AFO
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Yeah, but if you open it below you, you have to wait for gravity to descend you in. Precious time spent falling.
I'm not sure Ox Miraculous can block someone external from the user using Analytical Prediction or Enhanced Senses, or other merely sensory abilities, even ones as somewhat weird as seeing through Infrared Light, which may be pseudo-biological.
Neat!
You mentioned Illusions. If Monarch, or maybe an illusion speaks a lie to AFO, that ability may alert him he's being lied to by the words of the illusion that's making the sound or Monarch's own words. Unsure.
Lifting Strength: Class P (His strength on par with that of All Might,[16] who was capable of pushing against a hundred trillion tons of force[Statistics value 4][36] | Class P, higher with Rewind Drug
Statistics Value 4: 165,963,555,342,544 Metric Tons
Lifting Strength: Average Human | Class G (Should be at least comparable to Ladybug and Cat Noir, and easily restrained the latter in Season 3) | Class G (Should be superior to his base form) | Class G | Class G (Should be comparable to other akumatized villains), Class G (Briefly matched Bug Noir)
- Ladybug crumbles a bridge: 1,054,953,842.47 kg (Class G)
- Weredad creates a castle of vines: 8,796,899,239.25 kg (Class G)
- Stormy Weather creates a Volcano: 9,781,650,741.6 kg (Class G)
Lifting Strength: Average Human | Class G (Crumbled a bridge.[24] Casually restrained Animaestro after he shapeshifted into a skyscraper-sized monster.[25] Shouldn't be weaker than Gamer, who casually held a large steel pyramid.[26] Broke Cat Blanc's staff,[22] which could hold Weredad[27]), Class Y with Miraculous Ladybug[28] | Varies (Depending on which miraculous she is using), at least Class G, higher with unification
Vexingly, her LS links to the calc specifically of Gamer lifting a big pyramid.... But that whole calc section is crossed out & IDK why.
The calc, crossed out as it may be for reasons IDK, lists the pyramid's mass as 1,307,558,057.19 kg.
IDK if that accounts for lifting it or the drill spinning it.
Technically higher than crumbling a bridge by like, 30%, but lesser than Weredad.
So what are they scaling to?
Though, even if it was Stormy Weather's feat, that'd be against 165,963,555,342,544 Metric Tons, & 1 metric ton is 1,000 kg, so after converting to kg:
165,963,555,342,544,000 kg / 9,781,650,741.6 = 16,966,824.89763
So even with the highest LS calc listed on the ML page, AFO would scale almost 17 million times higher in Lifting Strength, not accounting for any scaling chains & multipliers I didn't consider in this post.
Feels a bit odd because quirks are often just a natural part of humanity in MHA. Stated in the intro, 80% of humans have quirks, & many are born with theirs or gets it at a young age.
Sometimes it's stuff like having a metal body or pyrokinesis or just having a tail or other stuff.
Blocking a biology feature is weird.
Even so, this wouldn't stop Infrared from seeing no heat or odd levels of heat in illusions (unless Gabriel can set that in the illusions or knows to do that.) would tip AFO off.
Plus, Infrared is his default vision; As mentioned, he is blind & cannot see otherwise, so he'd be using it & used to it, along with his other senses.
Assuming his hearing & vibration feeling to compensate for lack of site is just how he acclimatized to blindness, Miraculous Physiology likely wouldn't block it, meaning AFO would be hearing sounds & feeling vibrations from a place where he's getting nothing on his Infrared/garbling because something's blocking/scrambling it.
Similarly, he can sense emotions, so if he's hearing sounds & feeling vibrations & has reason to believe that target has substance (Mass or it successfully harmed him.), then a block or scrambling would be similarly telling.
He'd be relying a lot on this.Ox miraculous
Is it an In-character for him to lead with it?
Naturally.
Ah okay, so the Hypersonic is for Travel Speed.
In theory, exploitable, since Hawkmoth might suspect a Miraculous -Based on prior experience- or other power source to steal & try to approach, but he's outsped in travel speed.
By the way, thank you for this fun debate.
Part of why I'm discussing this is in part wondering if it'd be a good Death Battle.
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No.
Invulnerability is a power meant for abilities with an offensive use, not passive defensive ones. The ability to predict a move or seeing a user of Resistance doesn’t has any effect on the user itself for the power to be triggered.
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I think he means the LS of the Telekinesis, not AFO’s physical LS.
Anyways, answering to your question, it’s scratched because it got a recalc later but since there was no calculation of the mass because it used pulverization instead of KE, the mass wasn’t factored. As it’s stands right now the drill is bigger (still not close to Class P). But that’s basically the reason.
The calc only considered the lift, not the movement.
Stormy Weather’s Feat also got a recalc (The highest end it’s what got accepted)
Hope it explains it.
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My mistake. Not sure. I think I quoted his whole LS section, so maybe AFO's profile doesn't address his TK LS so maybe it's Unknown, assuming it's not equal to his physical one?
Ah. So was the mass recalced? Also, IIRC, I think there's ways to factor moving something being lifted/pushed into LS calculations.
Fair.
Ah.
BTW, are these new calculations on the calculations sections of the verse page, or is it only the profiles that might be lacking in that regard?
Quite helpful, thank you very much!
Also, I hope others have enjoyed, or at least not minded me indulging in this. It was a fun debate.
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I can’t answer that.
No. The amount of energy it took to destroy it was what was calc. You’re not wrong about movement and lifting, but that hasn’t been donde yet. Might look into it after.
Verse is overall outdated. It’s page wide issue.
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that would be false i mean "offensive" word minitourax was immune to Panelteam's BFR which causes no harm at all
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"Offensive" doesn't translate into harm, "offensive" just means that the powers affects you. Penalteam BFRing Minotaurox would've done something to him. It doesn't equates to Minotaurox becoming inmune to things that don't affect him directly in no real way whatsoever.
Like, are we really going to start pretending that Shadow Moth or Chrysalis cannot see Minotaurox when he uses Resistance because they see through their telepathic powers?
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sure but that takes less time like how can AFO stop monarch from doing that
well the verse have some abilities like those so that must be fine
oh alrr i see
i see he takes the LS but i wonder if being immune to telekinesis would help to Monarch by any chance or would it be fall under NLF to assume characters having telekinesis resistance would be immune to any telekinesis with having greater LS?
blocking i've meant wouldn't be affected by it thanks to Ox miraculous uh hearing and vibration feeling might work idk but if it is a super ability/quirk i'm not sure
yes he use that in combat very much lemme give you some scans
-Monarch using invulnurability against Bugnoir
-Monarch using invulnurability against Plagg and Tikki
-Monarch using invulnurability against Claw Noir and Shadybug
yes it's fun to debate but idk if that would be a good Death Battle as content
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alr got you but AFO will use his abilities on Monarch which would block it still
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The abilities that directly affect Monarch would be blocked. The ones that don't will not. I'm answering to some specifical abilities like Enhanced Senses and Analytical Prediction.
To put an example, an illusion that works by entering someone's mind will not byapass Resistance. An illusion that's basically an holographic projector will in the sense that there's nothing to actually counter.
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They will be blocked the enhanced senses and Analytical prediction will be used on Monarch, i mean not compeletly making those abilities it will just not affect him besides his enhanced senses are manifested by emphatic/mind manipulation as he can sense their emotions/thoughts we have ppl who have those in miraculous such as Hawkmoth wouldn't be able to sense Minitourax's feelings if he is using resistance.
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We're going back to "can Shadow Month/Chrysalis perceive Minotaurox?".
Having his emotions heard isn't something for Resistance to block, having them controlled would be a different thing. Also AFO's description just goes over how far he can perceive because he's blind.
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weren't you said him/her detecing other's emotions not Minitourax
it is actually common in finction such as Servantis not being able to sense kevin's thoughts/emotions because of him having resistance to that because of the brain controller that allows him to be resistant to Servantis mind/emotion reading
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Gravitational constant is acceleration of 9.8 meters per second per second. AFO has Relatistic+ & Higher Travel Speed.
The Travel Speed is much faster than the speed at which Hawkmoth would fall down, & Lifting Strength is literally millions of times higher. Ox Miraculous can't block mundane actions against the user.
Gabriel opens a Burrow below himself, AFO sprints to Gabriel, & either rams him or grabs him.
Yes, Gabriel can have counters, even if he isn't caught off guard by an approach while he's in freefall, but the point is falling down a Burrow is slow in a Versus Thread perspective.
Not sure what you mean by this.
It's a difference of millions of times, so I'm not sure if it isn't NLF. What's the basis of Monarch's resistance to Telekinesis? Its best showing?
Unsure what you mean here, either.
I suppose you mean that the Ox Miraculous would prevent the Infrared Rays from reaching him?
IDK how the Infrared Vision quirk quite works.
The Top 8 Animals That Can See Infrared
What are the animals that can see infrared? We've done the research! Jump in to read about the ultimate animals that can see infrared!
There are real animals like frogs & fish that can see in infrared naturally, because infrared is just a point on the light spectrum.
The simple explanation for why tech is normally used IRL to see infrared is it's a wavelength humans can't see, but anything above absolute zero generates thermal radiation & heat from the movement of its particles & whatnot, & that heat is what infrared vision technology sees.
That's my loose attempt at an explanation of the real science of it. If I got anything wrong, someone please correct me.
The point is, to block infrared vision, you'd have to block a whole part of the light spectrum bouncing off you. Admittedly, a wavelength/colour humans can't see, but still. Light bouncing off things is how we're able to see it; If light doesn't reflect off of something to go into an eye, that eye doesn't see the reflecting object. It's why black holes are invisible in real life; They suck in the light rather than letting it reflect away.
So depending on whether the infrared vision quirk generates the infrared wavelengths to reflect off things, or if it's like how IRL organisms can do, maybe that'd affect if Ox Miraculous can block it? Quirks can often be genetics, & are largely tied to it in MHA, as many characters in it have quirks that grant animal traits, so it's possible it could be similar.
Good to know!
Yeah, on one hand, lots of abilities to work with, on the other hand, it'd come down to a few.
But then again, many DB have HUGE stat differences, & having only a few things be deciding factors is common, IMHO.
Ah well. To each their own.
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Seeing them.
That's not the point.
Let's go from the start. The Ox Miraculous is described in two ways. The first and most common, "Invulnerable" - Invulnerable to superpowers means it cannot be harmed by a superpower. Then we have the second abjective, "impervious", which means to not be affected by something, this means Resistance users cannot be affected by a superpower.
Stretching this definition into that passive abilities that would not work on Resistance users doesn't holds weight, because there's no effect taking place on a resistance user having his feelings perceived through supernatural means.
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wait you will make the match with unequal speed? how is not monarch blitzing AFO with his combat and reactions? like FTL combat and reactions vs Releastivistic+ speed and SOL his travel speed might be greater but that doesn't mean he can keep up with Monarch or land a hit on him i do remember AFO was a close combat fighter, as we seen in his fight with All-Might sure he can use those ranged attacks that he stole from someone that allows him to absorb any ability basically fusing his power absorption and that long ranged quirk but Monarch can dodge it easily or can use a power to avoid it he won't be able to react to MonarchGravitational constant is acceleration of 9.8 meters per second per second. AFO has Relatistic+ & Higher Travel Speed.
The Travel Speed is much faster than the speed at which Hawkmoth would fall down, & Lifting Strength is literally millions of times higher. Ox Miraculous can't block mundane actions against the user.
Gabriel opens a Burrow below himself, AFO sprints to Gabriel, & either rams him or grabs him.
Yes, Gabriel can have counters, even if he isn't caught off guard by an approach while he's in freefall, but the point is falling down a Burrow is slow in a Versus Thread perspective.
Not sure what you mean by this.
It's a difference of millions of times, so I'm not sure if it isn't NLF. What's the basis of Monarch's resistance to Telekinesis? Its best showing?
Unsure what you mean here, either.
I suppose you mean that the Ox Miraculous would prevent the Infrared Rays from reaching him?
IDK how the Infrared Vision quirk quite works.
The Top 8 Animals That Can See Infrared
What are the animals that can see infrared? We've done the research! Jump in to read about the ultimate animals that can see infrared!a-z-animals.com
There are real animals like frogs & fish that can see in infrared naturally, because infrared is just a point on the light spectrum.
The simple explanation for why tech is normally used IRL to see infrared is it's a wavelength humans can't see, but anything above absolute zero generates thermal radiation & heat from the movement of its particles & whatnot, & that heat is what infrared vision technology sees.
That's my loose attempt at an explanation of the real science of it. If I got anything wrong, someone please correct me.
The point is, to block infrared vision, you'd have to block a whole part of the light spectrum bouncing off you. Admittedly, a wavelength/colour humans can't see, but still. Light bouncing off things is how we're able to see it; If light doesn't reflect off of something to go into an eye, that eye doesn't see the reflecting object. It's why black holes are invisible in real life; They suck in the light rather than letting it reflect away.
So depending on whether the infrared vision quirk generates the infrared wavelengths to reflect off things, or if it's like how IRL organisms can do, maybe that'd affect if Ox Miraculous can block it? Quirks can often be genetics, & are largely tied to it in MHA, as many characters in it have quirks that grant animal traits, so it's possible it could be similar.
Good to know!
Yeah, on one hand, lots of abilities to work with, on the other hand, it'd come down to a few.
But then again, many DB have HUGE stat differences, & having only a few things be deciding factors is common, IMHO.
Ah well. To each their own.
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Yeah, considering it'd be Large Town Level vs Multi-Continent Level (Or whatever it might be after ML Revisions.), I'm skeptic I'd make a Versus Thread, but I still like exploring the matchup.
So I do appreciate your indulging me in this topic.
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Sure, Does AFO have resistance to magical Paralysis indicument that works similiar to time stop that stops one ppl in time only, Venom can immobilize him for hours and it's one of Monarch's notable attack technique
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No Resistance to that.
The only outs I can see are:
- Immortality and Possession (Type 6 and Spiritual Possession. Can transfer his Quirk and spirit into another person to take over their body[9])
- Forcefield Creation (Can create barriers to protect himself from physical attacks, and even layer multiple on top of each other[25])
- Limited Age Manipulation (With the Rewind Drug he can rapidly reverse his age.[26] However, he has no control over this process and his body will eventually be rewinded from nothing)
- Limited Existence Erasure (The Rewind Drug will eventually erase the user out of existence[26])
Eri's Rewind Powers, which form the basis of the Rewind Drug, were able to restore a Quirk lost as a result of a Quirk Removal drug that was made, IIRC.
Her powers can also erase someone by rewinding them too far. It's 1 of the more notably abstract Quirks in the series in its functionality, but it doesn't come up much.
So it makes me wonder if its automatic rewind could rewind him to before the paralysis took effect?
On the other hand, maybe the Paralysis would also pause the rewind process the drug induced in him.
Definitely not the greatest options, & I do recall how much Gabriel loved spamming Venom in Season 5. Understandably so. It's almost a OHKO on contact.
Also, I thought Venom was 5 minutes, not hours. (Though either amount is enough for Gabriel to just Time Travel GG.)
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he can't because it stops his all actions literally, Bee miraculous owns the concept of "action" that allows it's user to stop their opponent's actions literally which includes their thinking, ability activation etc.
he needs to hit him with that bullet/drug i remember that which he won't be able to do that bcs of the ridicilous speed gap
Venom isn't 5 mins yeah it depends on user's will, as we can see Vesperia's venom still continues even after her detransformation + Gabriel is a growned up holder that allows him to use his power repeadetly, he can make his venom stay for hours if he wants
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b
btw if neccecary you can restrict rabbit miraculous it's more like an optional equipment to Monarch because Monarch have 2 different forms that one includes rabbit and one excludes rabbit, he managed to posses rabbit miraculous for 2 episodes in the end of Strike Back and Evolution ep
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bruhhhh just take kim out of the show and give his miraculous to someone
CelestialVortex01
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The plot was stupid ash, tho the fights were goated nonetheless, they gotta feed us with more eps similar to that of Mr Agrestethe new ep just came out, it was lowk mid but i liked Dragonbug has made a comeback also she didn't use lightning dragon
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yeah fr and they will with Dark Castle, Bunnyx will give her own miraculous to Ladybug for a few hours
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could you continue to others too please? they look so good with that here is the list:
-Pigella (TBA)
-Polymouse (TBA)
-Rooster Bold (Almost done, needs gifs for notable attack techniques)
-Minitourax (Almost done, needs gifs for nta and more references)
-Caprikid (Almost Done, needs gifs for notable attack techniques)
-Miss Hound (TBA)
- Purple Tigress (Done)
-Shadybug (Done)
-Claw Noir (Still needs work, stats needs to be added, needs gifs for notable attack techniques)
-Betterfly (TBA)
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CelestialVortex01
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So we're getting Wreckless driver on October 8th , followed by the dark castle ON October 10th
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