Minor Umineko Hax CRT ; Conceptualboogaloo (?)

[Accelerate420]

Hi. This is about to get a little funky and my knowledge on what is deemed 'conceptual' and what isn't is low, but let's give this thing a shot.

There are several abilities I'd like to list that I think should be added ;

Conceptual Resistance (Minor?)

Absorption and resistance to said hax

The first one isn't very mandatory as it's more of a question than a CRT, but for the secondary one I'm not sure it's on the Witches profiles or at least not stressed properly on it the importance of it.

In Episode 8 for Absorption, Bernkastel vores Lambdadelta. The interesting thing about this besides that it's weird is what Bernkastel actually says.

Bernkastel's intent was to absorb Lambdadelta into herself, thereby combining both their existences into one being. Lambda further confirms that after she breaks out of Bernkastel (which is something worth noting further in in its own way)

Lambdadelta imposes the idea that if she had accepted it and become completely absorbed into Bernkastel, her existence would become one with Bernkastels being, therefore bypassing even her regenerations. Obviously she didn't want that because she wanted to remain with her own identity to continue obsessing over her so for those reasons she broke out.

Now what's interesting about this detail is the fact that she was able to resist this as well and break out of it. Either by case of a strong enough will or not, it shows that Witches (At the very least, Voyagers) are capable of quite literally absorbing others existence into themselves to become one, and strong enough witches are capable of even resisting said thing.

Which is why I would propose an hax addition based on this feat if it doesn't already exist. The thing is, I'm unsure of what to put it under. Is it existence erasure via absorption? Conceptual? Or do these just fall under the term Absorption in general? If that were the case, we could just add a note beside it.

Now the conceptual resistance is something even I am a little skeptical on regarding how the wiki treats it, but hear me out.

Witches and Meta-Beings are capable of withstanding the Blue Truth and even the Red in some cases. The fact that they aren't conceptually denied out right, especially given the Blue slowly denies them and a Witch can be riddled with a whole bunch of them and yet still fight back shows they at least are capable of putting up a resistance to these types of hax without getting outright erased. Also the act of being able to resist being absorbed which is essentially their own concept becoming one with another can imply at the very least a minor resistance to it. Though I'm aware this addition will be more controversial and I'm more so looking for thoughts on it as I'm not sure if it'll pass.

So this minor CRT is basically to confirm a possible level of Conceptual Resistance, and add some form of Existence Erasure/Absorption to Witches.

If the latter is accepted, quick notes will be added to it to differentiate it from the Magic Absorption ;

Absorption : Witches are capable of absorbing an individuals concept and existence into themselves until they become one.

Absorption Resistance : Witches are capable of resisting their core concept and existence from being absorbed

So, what is the consensus?

Conceptual Resistance :

Yay : 7

Nay : 2

Absorption :

Yay : 8

Nay : 0

Absorption resistance :

Yay : 8

Nay : 0

Feel free to give your thoughts, disagreements or agreements.

 

[Ace]

Could be just Fusionism and Resistance to it.

 

[Jinsye]

I don't think we consider voring someone to just be fusionism.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I don't think we consider voring someone to just be fusionism.

Rimuru and Buu are rated as Absorption due it.

 

[Ace]

Okay. But in rimuru case he literal absorbed them, no, no, two become one, unlike this OP.

 

[Accelerate420]

A character's ability to fuse anything together to create a new form. The user can fuse together objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc., turning them into single unit.

Interesting, but I think this also falls under absorption.

Absorption is the ability to absorb something - whether it is energy or other living beings - and use it for one's self. This ability has many potential applications and forms;

We could just combine both for the profile, but if I had to choose I would go for absorption. I suppose the end result is the same either way given the prey becomes one with the predator and assimilates into their existence, unable to return.

 

[Accelerate420]

Okay

So are you voting yes for the absorption part of the CRT?

 

[Ace]

So are you voting yes for the absorption part of the CRT?

Yeah count me on that. Except the conceptual thingy

 

[Shyouu]

I agree with everything except the conceptual absorption/resistance, despite the feats presented, I don't really see how it's conceptual. However pretty sure that they already have resistance to conceptual stuff

 

[Accelerate420]

I agree with everything except the conceptual absorption/resistance, despite the feats presented, I don't really see how it's conceptual. However pretty sure that they already have resistance to conceptual stuff

I revised my post and just set it to absorption, so shall I tally you for the Absorption or the resistance? Just making sure

 

[Shyouu]

I revised my post and just set it to absorption, so shall I tally you for the Absorption or the resistance? Just making sure

Both

 

[Delta333]

agree with absorption and resistance to it,not sure about conceptual thing

 

[Jinsye]

It's "conceptual" because everything in the meta-world is conceptual. They're pretty much just two abstract concepts voring each other.

 

[Accelerate420]

That's what I think too, but I think considering it 'conceptual absorption' is a little redundant because of that same thing. We could just put a note clarifying its conceptual potency. Do you have any votes to place Edward?

 

[Guardian_Doge]

I agree with all points for this. Putting a note seems to be the simplest option.
Also from my interpretation, it's quite cut clear that it's conceptual absorption, given they need to create the concept of "Forms" to interact with the world and by negating their regeneration would also mean attacking their conceptual existence in some way.

As for the conceptual resistance, It's not the first time that characters have been shown to tank (part 1) conceptual attacks (part 2) so that's my reasoning for why I'm fine with something akin to minor conceptual resistance too.

 

[Accelerate420]

I'll add your votes to it. I'll also edit a note into the description to stress its potency.

How does this sound ;

Absorption : Witches are capable of absorbing an individuals concept and existence into themselves until they become one.

Absorption Resistance : Witches are capable of resisting their core concept and existence from being absorbed

This will go as a little note for the abilities.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Those notes sound good, uncomplicated and gets to the point.

 

[ZERO7772]

Don't have much to add, the OP is making sense and I agree with the additions.

 

[Ovy7]

Yeah, it seems fine

 

[Accelerate420]

Yeah, it seems fine

Nice, shall I tally you for the conceptual resistance too?

 

[Zencha9]

I agree with Resistance to vore on a conceptual level Because they're pure concepts

 

[Accelerate420]

I agree with Resistance to vore on a conceptual level Because they're pure concepts

Added, what about the conceptual resistance? Any thoughts on that?

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

I agree with Absorption and Absorption resistance. The conceptual resistance makes sense given they are all just walking conceptual forms who can resist the actions of each other so them being able to resist being combined with another concept at least gives it some evidence.

 

[Ace]

Except the conceptual thingy

Changing it. i agree on it too.

 

[Zencha9]

Added, what about the conceptual resistance? Any thoughts on that?

Yeah i share the same opinion as @Yomi_Schwarz

 

[Accelerate420]

Thank you! It seems like we can pretty much get these added to the profiles at this point in a bit. One last thing to bring up is who will be getting what and how to brand the Conceptual Resistance if it gets added.

For Absorption, I was thinking either of two things :

Voyagers and Above only ; Piece, Lambdadelta, Featherine, Bernkastel

Or :

All Witches meaning Voyagers and above, Battler, Beatrice and Virgillia, Erika Furudo, Ange, Maria

I think Territory Witches are considered to be mechanically different to Voyagers though and currently only Voyager Witches have shown to be able to do these abilities though I'm unsure how vsbattle treats Territory Witches.

The conceptual resistance will apply to ;

All characters who appear in the Witches Domain

If it's necessary to add a note, we can possibly use this :

Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation : Meta-World beings are defined by their thoughts and conceptualized form and are able to resist conceptual attacks on their identity to a degree

Any thoughts to this? I'm unsure if the wiki accepts 'Minor Resistance' attributes so I'll keep it as just simply Resistance for now until I get clarification.

 

[Elizhaa]

Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation : Meta-World beings are defined by their thoughts and conceptualized form and are able to resist conceptual attacks on their identity to a degree

• I guess yes, in a way. On the physical attack points, normally without contexts, a concept/abstract existence type 1 resisting being attack physically is physical durability without more contexts if the concept can be destroyed like stated here. However, since Meta beings have shown to be able to kill each other like the theory goats', the resistance would be conceptual.

All Witches meaning Voyagers and above, Battler, Beatrice and Virgillia, Erika Furudo, Ange, Maria

• Using the CRT logic for the absorption, only Bern, Creator level, and up would have the ability; the wiki doesn't really allow ability scaling unless there is a clear context or evidence that the abilities would apply generally to those with similar physiology or power systems.
• There is this statement below that could suggest they could gobble up fragments from the sea of Fragment:
  • The Voyager witches travel across the countless glittering futures of possibility, …and gobble them up, trying to escape their illness called boredom for as long as they can.
    The tiny, tiny Fragment created by the human known as Beatrice…had now been gobbled up by the two witches…and had lost its glitter. [EP 5]
• I think Territory Witches are considered to be mechanically different to Voyagers though and currently, only Voyager Witches have shown to be able to do these abilities though I'm unsure how vsbattle treats Territory Witches.
  • They are not that different. The big difference more or less related to the layer of their territory.
  • Going on the fragments points and giving that Meta beings can manipulate them, it is highly likely that Witches can absorb or put it within their body since Rika's mother, a human, did have a fragment dwell within her in an alternate world.

Absorption Resistance: Witches are capable of resisting their core concept and existence from being absorbed

• It's probably so for normal though it should be noted that they can still die to absorption like the theory's goats.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Accelerate420 and others, what you think about what I said especially on the absorption aspect?

 

[Guardian_Doge]

• I guess yes, in a way. On the physical attack points, normally without contexts, a concept/abstract existence type 1 resisting being attack physically is physical durability without more contexts if the concept can be destroyed like stated here. However, since Meta beings have shown to be able to kill each other like the theory goats', the resistance would be conceptual.

This is a good simplification of the point, seems fine.

• Using the CRT logic for the absorption, only Bern, Creator level, and up would have the ability; the wiki doesn't really allow ability scaling unless there is a clear context or evidence that the abilities would apply generally to those with similar physiology or power systems.

If I recall correctly, the endless witches (Ange, beatrice, and battler) could possibly have it due to this scan, the context is their power is endless so they can resist them "dying", however it's vague.
I don't know why Virgillia would have it so I'm okay with her not having it.
And Erika may have it due to becoming a voyager albeit lower than Bern and Lambda. However this likely isn't the final decision yet so I'll wait for Accelerator to reply.

Absorption Resistance: Witches are capable of resisting their core concept and existence from being absorbed

• It's probably so for normal though it should be noted that they can still die to absorption like the theory's goats.

This is fine as well, it's more like only having complete resistance if you have enough power so if something like "minor resistance to absorption" is allowed, it's alright.

Overall, these are pretty good points though I'm not entirely sure on the second point so I'll hold off on that for now.

 

[Accelerate420]

Hi, sorry I can't be more active on this CRT at the moment due to Medical concerns, but I agree with Elizhaa's points. They should naturally be able to get absorbed as well similar to how Theory goats can eat their existences if they let them, but like Lambadelta did she had to put effort into resisting Bern and was fully capable of it so it should constitute a level of resistance at least.

I'm okay with keeping the Voyagers and above only to receiving the Absorption aspects because of the wiki details and I can perhaps come back to it another day.

If @Elizhaa would be able to summarize real quickly what they think can be added and what can't, that'd help a lot considering I don't have the energy to do prolonged debates atm and I'll be like this at least for a month or two.

 

[Zencha9]

@Accelerate420 i hope you the best

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Bump to somewhat come to a conclusion.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Accelerate420 good luck with your medical issues.

More or less, aside from the dealing with Territory witches/lord for absorption which I am neutral on, what I was in my first reply are what I agree to.

 

[Accelerate420]

Okay, in that case, we can for now apply the absorption and resistance to voyagers and above. The Conceptual Resistance will apply to all characters with a Meta-World key. Are these changes sufficient?

And thank you very much, by next week I think I can fully dedicate myself more to getting these additions added but for now I need a bit more sick leave.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Bumpo from me.
Did we apply these changes yet?

 

[Accelerate420]

Not yet, I'm going to get internet installed this weekend and then I'll look into getting them implemented.

 

[Accelerate420]

So the profiles we'll need to unlock and edit are for the following :

Absorption and Resistance :

Featherine Augustus Aurora
Bernkastel
Lambdadelta
Piece (Umineko No Naku Koro Ni)
Santa Claus (Umineko no Naku Koro Ni)


For Conceptual Resistance :

The same as above.

Hanyuu Furude
Rika Furude
Beatrice (Umineko no Naku Koro ni)
Battler Ushiromiya
Erika Furudo
Eva-Beatrice
Ange Ushiromiya
Virgilia
Maria Ushiromiya
Dlanor A. Knox
Willard H. Wright
Diana
Wild Cats (Umineko)
Theory Goats
Ronove
Gaap
The Seven Stakes of Purgatory
Shannon (Umineko no Naku Koro Ni)
Kanon
The Chiester Sisters
Kinzo Ushiromiya
Rudolf Ushiromiya
Rosa Ushiromiya
Jessica Ushiromiya
Black Battler
Kyrie Ushiromiya
Terumasa Nanjo

I believe that's it, I'll add the notes discussed above to the conceptual resistance and the absorption as well. I've contacted an admin about unlocking the pages so all we need to do is wait.

 

[Antvasima]

So the profiles we'll need to unlock and edit are for the following :

Absorption and Resistance :

Featherine
Bernkastel
Lambdadelta
Piece
Santa Claus

For Conceptual Resistance :

The same as above.

Hanyuu
Rika Furude
Beatrice
Battler Ushiromiya
Erika Furudo
Eva-Beatrice
Ange Ushiromiya
Virgilia
Maria Ushiromiya
Dlanor A. Knox
Willard H. Wright
Diana
Wild Cats
Theory Goats
Ronove
Gaap
Seven Stakes of Purgatory
Shannon
Kanon
Chiester Sisters
Kinzo Ushiromiya
Rudolf Ushiromiya
Rosa best-mom Ushiromiya
Jessica Ushiromiya
Black Battler
Kyrie Ushiromiya
Terumasa Nanjo

I believe that's it, I'll add the notes discussed above to the conceptual resistance and the absorption as well. I've contacted an admin about unlocking the pages so all we need to do is wait.

Several of the entries in your list do not seem to use the EXACTLY WORDED page titles, which makes it impossible for my automated script to handle them.

Please try again. Links are not necessary.

 

[Accelerate420]

Several of the entries in your list do not seem to use the EXACTLY WORDED page titles, which makes it impossible for my automated script to handle them.

Please try again. Links are not necessary.

I didn't know that's how it worked, my bad. Is that better?

 

[Antvasima]

It is an improvement, but you should still write the FULL EXACTLY WORDED page titles, for example "Santa Claus (Umineko no Naku Koro Ni)" instead of just "Santa Claus", so please try again.