Minor Mario Downgrades

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

yea

Acid Generation

It's a ******* lemon.

Piss has a pH of 4.6 but you don't see me claiming Goku gets soloed by some guy who can pee his pants just because "acid hax lol"

Resistance to Black Holes

The feat is valid, but we do have to take into account outliers and portrayal. Mario is far, FAR more consistently threatened by black holes in Galaxy 1/2, to the point where him being endangered by one is a plot point. Not only that, but this is the most recent portrayal of his "resistance" to black holes, since Galaxy 1/2 both came out well after Mario Party 6 (where the feat takes place).

Overall, consistency, narrative, and recency all corroborate that Mario gets his shit wrecked by black holes in spite of what Mario Party says.

 

[Dragonite007]

So, The lemon will be what? Lemon manipulation

 

[Remus1998]

So, The lemon will be what? Lemon manipulation

Organic Manipulation I think

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It's nothing lol

Squirting a lemon isn't an ability. I can open my fridge and do that right now.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

So, The lemon will be what? Lemon manipulation

It probably shouldn't be anything, really. Its just a giant lemon he can summon. At best it's "summoning" but he already has summoning on his profile. Its kind of just a pointless/misleading ability that bloats the profile, it doesn't need to be there.

yea

Acid Generation

It's a ******* lemon.

Piss has a pH of 4.6 but you don't see me claiming Goku gets soloed by some guy who can pee his pants just because "acid hax lol"

Resistance to Black Holes

The feat is valid, but we do have to take into account outliers and portrayal. Mario is far, FAR more consistently threatened by black holes in Galaxy 1/2, to the point where him being endangered by one is a plot point. Not only that, but this is the most recent portrayal of his "resistance" to black holes, since Galaxy 1/2 both came out well after Mario Party 6 (where the feat takes place).

Overall, consistency, narrative, and recency all corroborate that Mario gets his shit wrecked by black holes in spite of what Mario Party says.

I agree with both of these removals. If Mario had more consistent feats of being unaffected by black holes I'd be fine with it staying, but since he's consistently ****** and killed by them whenever he gets into the radius of one in SMG1 & 2, its not a consistent enough resistance to give. Him needing to be saved from one that likely would have killed him in SMG1's ending especially is a damn death kneel for it I'd say.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It probably shouldn't be anything, really. Its just a giant lemon he can summon. At best it's "summoning" but he already has summoning on his profile. Its kind of just a pointless/misleading ability that bloats the profile, it doesn't need to be there.

Aren't the items in Sticker Star literally just. yknow. items? That Mario carries like normal? He's not really pulling them out of thin air, considering they take up space in his inventory. Mario carries a lemon with him, good for him ig, but it's not an ability.

 

[AStrangeverse]

this is just.. wow

 

[AStrangeverse]

might as well remove every single resistance he has on his profile if you want to go by "consistency, narrative, and recency"

Mario in general isn't a very consistent character, considering his varied levels of power in certain games

so that argument just rubs me the wrong way

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

might as well remove every single resistance he has on his profile if you want to go by "consistency, narrative, and recency"

Mario in general isn't a very consistent character, considering his varied levels of power in certain games

In any other verse this would have been gutted on the spot so, yeah, if something is pretty inconsistent and blatantly contradicted numerous times by more recent sources, it should be prioritized.

 

[AStrangeverse]

In any other verse this would have been gutted on the spot so, yeah, if something is pretty inconsistent and blatantly contradicted numerous times by more recent sources, it should be prioritized.

ain't much I can say to refute that since he has consistently been damaged by black holes in comparison to Bowser

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

might as well remove every single resistance he has on his profile if you want to go by "consistency, narrative, and recency"

Mario in general isn't a very consistent character, considering his varied levels of power in certain games

so that argument just rubs me the wrong way

We have literally no issue with other characters who vary, as it is a matter of taking their most consistent showings into account. Comic heralds are rated the way they are not because there aren't higher feats, but because those ratings are what is consistently shown. Mario should be no exception here; If it means anything, if the black hole thing were one feat of dying and many feats of resistance instead of the other way around, I would advocate for the resistance staying.

Alternatively, can you give me a better explanation as to how Mario resists black holes yet is so clearly threatened by them time and time again in Galaxy? Mario being an inconsistent character does not render him exempt from outliers.

 

[AStrangeverse]

We have literally no issue with other characters who vary, as it is a matter of taking their most consistent showings into account. Comic heralds are rated the way they are not because there aren't higher feats, but because those ratings are what is consistently shown. Mario should be no exception here; If it means anything, if the black hole thing were one feat of dying and many feats of resistance instead of the other way around, I would advocate for the resistance staying.

fair point

Alternatively, can you give me a better explanation as to how Mario resists black holes yet is so clearly threatened by them time and time again in Galaxy? Mario being an inconsistent character does not render him exempt from outliers.

no, I just said there wasn't much I can say to refute, but if I happen across one, I'll post it here

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

ain't much I can say to refute that since he has consistently been damaged by black holes in comparison to Bowser

To be fair, isn't it questionable at BEST if Bowser even survived the black hole in Galaxy 1, and he only survived the one in 2 from the Grand Star?

 

[AStrangeverse]

no, cuz unlike Mario, Bowser actually has consistently shown to survive black holes

 

[AStrangeverse]

I agree nonetheless

 

[XXKINGXX69]

yea

Acid Generation

It's a ******* lemon.

Piss has a pH of 4.6 but you don't see me claiming Goku gets soloed by some guy who can pee his pants just because "acid hax lol"




Overall, consistency, narrative, and recency all corroborate that Mario gets his shit wrecked by black holes in spite of what Mario Party says.

Its still acid manipulation since he's generating a large amount of lemon juice that is strong enough to blind enemies for an extended period of time. It wouldn't be enough for corrosion inducement, but its still acid since regular lemon juice merely stings, it can't blind

The feat is valid, but we do have to take into account outliers and portrayal. Mario is far, FAR more consistently threatened by black holes in Galaxy 1/2, to the point where him being endangered by one is a plot point.

That was a very powerful black hole that was about to consume the world

Not only that, but this is the most recent portrayal of his "resistance" to black holes, since Galaxy 1/2 both came out well after Mario Party 6 (where the feat takes place).

The one in galaxy 1/2 could also be a more powerful black hole. Furthermore, he was endangered by it, but its not explicitly confirmed he would die to it. Barely surviving a black hole is enough for black hole resistance. Mario and Bowser could continue fighting in a black hole, and Bowser only got sucked in after he was injured enough

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Its still acid manipulation since he's generating a large amount of lemon juice that is strong enough to blind enemies for an extended period of time. It wouldn't be enough for corrosion inducement, but its still acid since regular lemon juice merely stings, it can't blind




That was a very powerful black hole that was about to consume the world

squirt your eyes with lemon juice and see how easy a time you have keeping your eyes open

that Is literally what black holes do. Consume everything in the immediate area. There’s no evidence that black hole was going to destroy everything, or even that it was going to do anything more than a regular black hole. It is at the very best a supermassive black hole.

And Mario was unable to fight against it to any degree. He was about to be pulled in by it until the Lumas did their sacrifice

 

[XXKINGXX69]

squirt your eyes with lemon juice and see how easy a time you have keeping your eyes open

that Is literally what black holes do. Consume everything in the immediate area. There’s no evidence that black hole was going to destroy everything, or even that it was going to do anything more than a regular black hole. It is at the very best a supermassive black hole.

And Mario was unable to fight against it to any degree. He was about to be pulled in by it until the Lumas did their sacrifice

It won't blind people for that long, and besides, Mario is generating lemons significantly larger than regular lemons and squeezing a lot of it onto his enemies, I feel like that has to count as an ability. Its not simply an item because the Things can be destroyed and Mario can reuse them, implying he creates them

That black hole later on destroyed the universe, and again, him being endangered by it isn't confirmation he would die to it, I pointed out that it doesn't contradict that he can survive black holes. This is also common sense, if Mario can survive a black hole and if he were to die to another, that other black hole would be stronger. He couldn't fight back, but who's to say he would die to it? He can get sucked into it and survive, which is something that happens to the cast of Mario Party 6

 

[Potemkat]

In Mario Galaxy you get game over if you fall in a black hole.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

In Mario Galaxy you get game over if you fall in a black hole.

That's a black hole made by a power star so its not impossible for it to be stronger than a regular black hole, and he can withstand the pull of a big black hole in Galaxy 2 here

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

That's a black hole made by a power star so its not impossible for it to be stronger than a regular black hole, and he can withstand the pull of a big black hole in Galaxy 2 here

He’s not resisting anything here. He’s literally being pulled in and is only briefly pulled over by the gravitational pulls of meteors to land on. If anything that makes the gravitational pull of the black hole look especially weak.

 

[Potemkat]

That's a black hole made by a power star so its not impossible for it to be stronger than a regular black hole, and he can withstand the pull of a big black hole in Galaxy 2 here

It doesn't look like the black holes in the game. Are you sure it's one?

Wouldn't the spheres you launch at Bowser be what holds him back, since he's attached to their gravity?

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

It won't blind people for that long, and besides, Mario is generating lemons significantly larger than regular lemons and squeezing a lot of it onto his enemies, I feel like that has to count as an ability. Its not simply an item because the Things can be destroyed and Mario can reuse them, implying he creates them

That black hole later on destroyed the universe, and again, him being endangered by it isn't confirmation he would die to it, I pointed out that it doesn't contradict that he can survive black holes. This is also common sense, if Mario can survive a black hole and if he were to die to another, that other black hole would be stronger. He couldn't fight back, but who's to say he would die to it? He can get sucked into it and survive, which is something that happens to the cast of Mario Party 6

Can’t things only be re-used by rebuying the things at stores? Regardless this is still literally just a massive lemon, it just seems like a silly unnecessary addition to a profile.

That black hole didn’t destroy the universe, the apparent universal reset only occurred when hundreds of Luma’s combined with it and caused it to collapse on itself and explode. That’s not just the black hole’s power.

If Mario was capable of surviving the black holes on his own, the Lumas wouldn’t have needed to sacrifice themselves and Rosalina wouldn’t have protected him from the after effects of the explosion. There is literally no indication he would have survived, only clear implications he would not have

 

[XXKINGXX69]

He’s not resisting anything here. He’s literally being pulled in and is only briefly pulled over by the gravitational pulls of meteors to land on. If anything that makes the gravitational pull of the black hole look especially weak.

The black hole pulls in Bowser from that radius, once he was weakened enough. So the fact Mario didn't get pulled in means he's resisting it

It doesn't look like the black holes in the game. Are you sure it's one?

Wouldn't the spheres you launch at Bowser be what holds him back, since he's attached to their gravity?

Why?

Can’t things only be re-used by rebuying the things at stores? Regardless this is still literally just a massive lemon, it just seems like a silly unnecessary addition to a profile.

That black hole didn’t destroy the universe, the apparent universal reset only occurred when hundreds of Luma’s combined with it and caused it to collapse on itself and explode. That’s not just the black hole’s power.

He can reuse them indefinitely I think. I feel like causing that much lemon juice has to count for something

The black hole was the one destroying the universe, the lumas made it easier

If Mario was capable of surviving the black holes on his own, the Lumas wouldn’t have needed to sacrifice themselves and Rosalina wouldn’t have protected him from the after effects of the explosion. There is literally no indication he would have survived, only clear implications he would not have

Fair point, but I think that could mean this black hole is stronger since its made with a Grand Star's energy

 

[Omnificence]

Is it possible to give Mario Stellar lifting strength based on this?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Is it possible to give Mario Stellar lifting strength based on this?

With telekinesis possibly, but that's for another thread

 

[RethPo]

It's a ******* lemon.

Piss has a pH of 4.6 but you don't see me claiming Goku gets soloed by some guy who can pee his pants just because "acid hax lol"

The lemon juice had a blinding effect, but i dont think anything suggested it had stronger acid properties than a lot of lemon juice so that should be fine to remove or add another explanation.

I agree with eggman gaining acid generation from this.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

bro what

First and foremost, the lemon blinding people isn't anything. I can do that by spitting in someone's eyes, not because I have some super special hax ability, but because people's eyes are a ******* weak point. Also, yes, thing items can be re-bought at a special shop or recollected from where you found them, they don't just spawn from the ether when Mario wills it into existence.

The black hole thing is also stupid, because they're both naturally occurring black holes found in the vacuum of space; The one at the end of SMG1 even forms from a supernova, can't get much more naturally generated than that. There's no reason to believe why one black hole is "layered" over the other in these circumstances, considering the context dictates they should be exactly the same.

Also not sure if the size of the black hole even matters when it comes to resistance; A black hole the size of a beach ball and one the size of a planet would both **** up the human body in the same ways but at different ranges, one would imagine.

I agree with eggman gaining acid generation from this.

heh

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bro what

First and foremost, the lemon blinding people isn't anything. I can do that by spitting in someone's eyes, not because I have some super special hax ability, but because people's eyes are a ******* weak point. Also, yes, thing items can be re-bought at a special shop or recollected from where you found them, they don't just spawn from the ether when Mario wills it into existence.

The black hole thing is also stupid, because they're both naturally occurring black holes found in the vacuum of space; The one at the end of SMG1 even forms from a supernova, can't get much more naturally generated than that. There's no reason to believe why one black hole is "layered" over the other in these circumstances, considering the context dictates they should be exactly the same.

Also not sure if the size of the black hole even matters when it comes to resistance; A black hole the size of a beach ball and one the size of a planet would both **** up the human body in the same ways but at different ranges, one would imagine.


heh

Lemon doesn't immediately blind you

The supernova was using the grand star's energy

 

[Ikelaggan]

bro what

First and foremost, the lemon blinding people isn't anything. I can do that by spitting in someone's eyes, not because I have some super special hax ability, but because people's eyes are a ******* weak point. Also, yes, thing items can be re-bought at a special shop or recollected from where you found them, they don't just spawn from the ether when Mario wills it into existence.

Even if it's just a item, which would still make into optional equipment regardless. Just because it's not doing flesh melting corrosion inducement levels of acid manip doesn't make it a 100% useless item.

Also not sure if the size of the black hole even matters when it comes to resistance; A black hole the size of a beach ball and one the size of a planet would both **** up the human body in the same ways but at different ranges, one would imagine.

I'm not sure you know how blackhole resistances work, if your resisting blackhole the size of beach ball then your only withstanding that level of G forces from those types of black holes and still have valid resistance to it, but it can still be out paced by larger black holes with much higher G forces.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Lemon doesn't immediately blind you

Yes it does?? I've gotten lemon juice in my eyes before, that shit hurts like hell and you can't see shit.

Even if it's just a item, which would still make into optional equipment regardless. Just because it's not doing flesh melting corrosion inducement levels of acid manip doesn't make it a 100% useless item.

We do not give abilities based on everyday household items; Stuff like tape and the fan are fine, because the scale on which they work is obviously played up to an unrealistic extent. But the lemon is literally just how lemons work irl, it's not hax, it's not an ability, so while he DOES have it as "optional equipment", it doesn't do anything notable enough

Like, regular human bodily fluids can be considered acidic and blind you if it gets into your eyes. The acid page does specifically mention it eating away at physical substances and dissolving people's bodies so like. I don't think a couple squirts of lemon juice comes even remotely close to qualifying.

I'm not sure you know how blackhole resistances work, if your resisting blackhole the size of beach ball then your only withstanding that level of G forces from those types of black holes and still have valid resistance to it, but it can still be out paced by larger black holes with much higher G forces.

The black holes in regular levels in SMG are very visually similar in size to the one in MP6, so idk what the point even is here. He dies to the former more consistently than he resists the latter, this is something so obvious it shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[Ikelaggan]

The black holes in regular levels in SMG are very visually similar in size to the one in MP6, so idk what the point even is here. He dies to the former more consistently than he resists the latter, this is something so obvious it shouldn't even be a discussion.

Do you have any proof those blackholes are the same in terms of SHC radius, cause saying their just visibly similar in eyeball range size isn't really that supplementary enough to say it shouldn't be a discussion. So unless SMG Blackhole is proven equal or smaller then the discussion still a issue on potency in terms of resistance.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

fine

We can look at the exact frame before Mario fully disappears for both black holes. In MP6, he's a barely visible speck. In SMG, he's much larger in comparison to the black hole. So the ones in SMG are much smaller than the one in MP6.

I shouldn't even need to calc this, the difference should be pretty obvious.

 

[Deceived3596]

I swear someone of y'all mfs can't even google basic definitions for words.

"Blinded" doesn't innately denote making someone permanently blind, it just means "causing someone to be unable to see, permanently or temporarily", squeezing lemon juice in someone's eye would temporarily "blind" them, similar to how dirt or sand getting in your eye will temporarily "blind" you, that doesn't mean i get Earth Manipulation or Sand Manipulation just because i threw dirt/sand into your eye, this is the same exact case, you don't get Acid Manipulation just because you squirted lemon juice in someone's eye.

Also just because something contains a high ph level doesn't mean we treat it as Acid Manipulation on the wiki, the page itself implies it's only in relation towards acids which are capable of corroding or dissolving substances like flesh or metal, lemon juice doesn't do this, so it wouldn't even fall under what's considered as Acid Manipulation in the first place.

The fact that was accepted onto Mario's profile in the first place is a certified bruh moment.

 

[AStrangeverse]

there's zero point in arguing for the lemon item qualifying for acid, neither share the same properties

 

[XXKINGXX69]

fine

We can look at the exact frame before Mario fully disappears for both black holes. In MP6, he's a barely visible speck. In SMG, he's much larger in comparison to the black hole. So the ones in SMG are much smaller than the one in MP6.

I shouldn't even need to calc this, the difference should be pretty obvious.

It was made by a power star so it could be stronger

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It was made by a power star so it could be stronger

bro what

This is literally just from one of the basic levels in the game, the black hole wasn't created by anything, it's just there. Most black holes occur naturally, so unless you can prove EVERY black hole in SMG was created by a power star, this means nothing.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bro what

This is literally just from one of the basic levels in the game, the black hole wasn't created by anything, it's just there. Most black holes occur naturally, so unless you can prove EVERY black hole in SMG was created by a power star, this means nothing.

You know that all galaxies are made from power stars right? Here's proof that black holes in this game are made by power stars. He also still survives fighting the pull of a black hole in Galaxy 2

 

[Potemkat]

You know that all galaxies are made from power stars right? Here's proof that black holes in this game are made by power stars. He also still survives fighting the pull of a black hole in Galaxy 2

The thing you mention doesn't look like a black hole.. In Galaxy 2 they are black and red.
Also, he gets attracted to the yellow spheres, so he doesn't resist something.

 

[AStrangeverse]

The thing you mention doesn't look like a black hole.. In Galaxy 2 they are black and red.

the black hole shown is quite literally the same shown on every other planet in both Galaxy games

both share the same purpose and have the same properties