Minor Grimm and Other Stuff

[WeeklyBattles]

Kinda does. The more content a franchise has, the more need to differentiate its canon as theres generally a higher trend of inconsistencies. Its why things like Marvel and DC have their own profile making rules, cause you'll see street levelers hurting Thanos.

Neat, RWBY isnt anywhere near as inconsistent as those

Delusional. RWBY x JL is never confirmed canon, so therefore we dont treat it canon. As a crossover in general this is what the wiki generally does unless theres clear confirmation otherwise. Thats it.

It was confirmed as canon, yes. Kerry literally said so.

See above Weekly. This is an awful dodge when nothing i'm stating here refers to my 'liking', and more so the fact Dante's counterpart in SMT was actually in the main source canon, rather than JL versions of characters in RWBY being made under a different writer outside of the main show, and no confirmation on canon.

The JL in the comic is in the main source canon for RWBY, as the comic is canon

Im more concerned by the fact you arent providing evidence of any of this?

I have provided evidence, you just dont like it so youre ignoring it.

Just because the JL x RWBY movie takes place in V8 and 9 is no reason why the characters would forget the literal identically named and semblanced characters they had previously met from the comic.

Again, nothing implies that Team RWBY doesnt remember them, and the Justice League has never met them before, because the people in the comic were not the justice league. It really just feels like youre ignoring me at this point.

Bro really tryna say these characters are different when the premise is that the JL literally transported into Remnant, adopted faunus/semblance traits to act as their superpowers that are completely identical to how they are in the comics. And yet no one brings that up and theyre all introduced differently.

Thats the premise of the movie, not the comic. The Justice League were not transported into Remnant in the comic, because theyre not the justice league, theyre just people from Remnant.

I mean they do? them introducing Ren, Jaune and Nora,

Introducing the justice league to people theyve never met, yes. Why is this difficult for you to comprehend?

Blake questioning WW is a princess?

Yes? Diana in the comic wasnt a princess, she was an automaton.

They literally look identical to these people. Weiss out here not recollecting the two Bruce Wayne bat faunus characters they met.

Neat, the Justice League has still never met them, and nothing implies Team RWBY doesnt remember them, youre literally just making shit up at this point.

They didnt. You've yet to actually prove they stated the JL x RWBY crossover is canon, and are purposefully lying by using a statement unrelated to that comic. Even if it wasnt inconsistent with the plot (They're shipping ******* Yang with Superman), that doesnt mean its canon if the main-source hasn't implied or mentioned the events.

Miles didn't co-write it, he approved it, his name isnt in the list of the writers. And again, RT have to approve ALL official RWBY series', canon or non-canon.

Giving an idea of where the characters are in the timeline =/= the sequence being canon.

I have, several times. Just because you refuse to acknowledge it does not mean i have not proven it.

 

[Da3ggman]

Agree with everything except removal of heat manip; I'm neutral on that front. However, I agree with Weekly that someone should probably jut ask whether or not RWBY x JL specifically is canon.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Agree with everything except removal of heat manip; I'm neutral on that front. However, I agree with Weekly that someone should probably jut ask whether or not RWBY x JL specifically is canon.

Inb4 the movie just directly references the events of the comic

 

[Da3ggman]

Inb4 the movie just directly references the events of the comic

But is that movie canon to the timeline? If it is, then I'd be in full disagreement with the removal; but just to be safe, I definitely think we should get the writers final input on whether or not this whole batch of RWBY x JL is canon.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But is that movie canon to the timeline? If it is, then I'd be in full disagreement with the removal; but just to be safe, I definitely think we should get the writers final input on whether or not this whole batch of RWBY x JL is canon.

The movie is canon yes, they outright confirmed it to be canon in an interview and gave it a solid spot in the timeline between volumes 8 and 9

 

[Da3ggman]

The movie is canon yes, they outright confirmed it to be canon in an interview and gave it a solid spot in the timeline between volumes 8 and 9

Okay, thanks for letting me know. I don't mean to be such a skeptic, but does the feat with Heat manipulation happen in the movie? Could you also link said interview? Just trying to cover all bases.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay, thanks for letting me know. I don't mean to be such a skeptic, but does the feat with Heat manipulation happen in the movie?

No problem ^-^

The heat manipulation feat comes from the comic, where Ruby uses the friction from her speed semblance to boil a large amount of seawater alongside Barry Allen

Could you also link said interview? Just trying to cover all bases.

Only problem is i dont know what the timestamp for them confirming it is lmao

 

[Jinx666]

Ight back after a while, but yeah

The Wiki itself, and debating in general NEVER immediately assumes a crossover over any capacity is canon. This is due to there being 2 potential main writers instead of 1, if there isn't already an actual confirmation on its canonicity. You had only thought it was canon due to a statement unrelated to RWBY x JL beforehand, and it just seems you're clinging to this notion for RWBY's benefit in general.

You made the claim that it is canon, which goes against the actual default rule for crossovers being non-canon unless stated otherwise. You claim it HAS been stated otherwise, however you're failing to prove this claim. I'm making no claim in the slightest, going by the general fact that since its not confirmed canon, it cant be considered canon, which is more you need to prove THIS wrong rather than me having to find some non-existent source that says its 'non-canon' as of right now.
Other people on this thread have been asking you to prove its canon. This is just how it works with crossovers.

Literally, Kerry never claimed it was canon, the example you're lying to everyone about is not regarding the RWBY x JL crossover, and you're refusing to post an actual source.

I would like a timestamp for this claim that the movie is canon yes. I aint watching all that

 

[Jinx666]

Like Crossovers just are defaultly treated as non-canon given their fan-service and colliding main source, unless something is said to prove otherwise.

You dont gotta prove a Crossover is non-canon over proving it IS canon, because it just generally is non-canon.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Jinx, every post you make just further solidifies that you are not listening to a single argument that anyone is making other than your own.

No one is assuming by default that the film is canon, we all are painfully aware of the wiki's rules regarding crossovers and canon. We are treating it as canon specifically because the writers said that it IS canon. You can make all the false accusations and slander you want but at the end of the day this is the fact of the matter, whether you like it or not.

And again, the fact that you are demanding constant reposts of scans when you have outright refused to post a single scan to support your own arguments across the entire month of revisions that just happened in regards to RWBY is hilarious irony. Practice what you preach Jinx.

 

[Jinx666]

Jinx, every post you make just further solidifies that you are not listening to a single argument that anyone is making other than your own.

No one is assuming by default that the film is canon, we all are painfully aware of the wiki's rules regarding crossovers and canon. We are treating it as canon specifically because the writers said that it IS canon. You can make all the false accusations and slander you want but at the end of the day this is the fact of the matter, whether you like it or not.

The Writers DIDNT SAY THIS THOUGH

You are lying and using a clip irrelevant to the RWBY x JL crossover, when that clip clearly just refers to the RWBY DC comic. The movie released further confirms that this comic didnt happen in canon since they literally never recall these exact characters they had met with the exact same/similar name, semblances and powers.
Its not the fact, its you desperately wanting to try and scale RWBY to DC

And again, the fact that you are demanding constant reposts of scans when you have outright refused to post a single scan to support your own arguments across the entire month of revisions that just happened in regards to RWBY is hilarious irony. Practice what you preach Jinx.

Please post evidence of this made-up claim.

You literally admit HERE that you understand the wiki's rules for canon though, so what exactly do you need me to scan? We've already established you know the rules, yet are trying to skip over them for your favourite verse.

Scans genuinely arent necessary when you havent asked for them, and you know EXACTLY which moments im talking about. Stop trying to dodge posting evidence.

 

[Jinx666]

Literal Lies. Its been proven multiple times that the statement we found on reddit did NOT refer to the JL crossover, and preceeded it years prior.

You now only claim its canon because we 'know where RWBY was in the timeline', which is not evidence for canon whatsoever?

Genuinely, how are you allowed to get away with this?

How do you actively admit you know the Crossover rules of this wiki, then whine at me for scans just because im asking you to post this (non-existent) evidence you are purposefully using wrongly to try and deceive people. How do I 'Scan' the Crossover page on this wiki (I have) if you're 'painfully' aware, and post things you didnt know (Like a Geist attacking physically, which i did after you were literally berating the whole RWBY wiki being wrong in comparison to you).

It would be up to you to post evidence FOR the comic's canonicity (which is even harder when you claim the RWBY x JL movie is canon and completely does not incorporate RWBY x JL comic whatsoever, in a movie that literally makes Team RWBY flashback up to V7). instead of using statements not made about it, so we can go past what the wiki (and the entire debating community) uses as default.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Jinx imma be real with you, we can keep going on with this forever but the fact of the matter is that you are:

• Continuing to demand evidence, despite it having been provided numerous times in this thread alone, as well as multiple other times in other threads.
• Actively ignoring the evidence that has been posted and then turning around and accusing me of lying and claiming that the evidence that has been provided does not exist.
• Trying to spin me making counterarguments and posting evidence that supports my claims as some grand crime that im somehow 'getting away with'.
• Refusing to provide evidence to support any of your arguments, not only in this thread but in the past three threads about RWBY.
• And actively ignoring the context both behind and between the RWBY x JL comic and the film while simultaneously lying by claiming that anything in the film somehow discredits the comic when you know for a fact that it does not.

All you are doing is being a self-contradictory one-person echo chamber, trying to prove yourself right to yourself using nothing but your own word and no evidence while ignoring and belittling anyone and anything that proves you wrong. There is no evidence that i could post that would convince you because you have convinced yourself that you are the only one who is right here (looking at the previous CRT where you unironically argued that all evidence that proved you wrong should be disregarded as story inconsistencies due to your opinion of RWBY's writing quality). So you can go on insulting people and ignoring evidence but this argument is ultimately pointless, and no one here agrees with you.

 

[Deagonx]

We should address the crossover canonicity here

 

[Deagonx]

I don't believe it qualifies as being canon to the show, because the evidence used to support that is an interview statement from before the crossover, and refers to the older RWBY comics published by DC.

Moreover, my understanding is that the new movie is definitely canon to the show, which means the comic cannot be, as it contradicts the events of the comic.

 

[Damage3245]

I will comment on this on the 28th or 29th.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't believe it qualifies as being canon to the show, because the evidence used to support that is an interview statement from before the crossover, and refers to the older RWBY comics published by DC.

Moreover, my understanding is that the new movie is definitely canon to the show, which means the comic cannot be, as it contradicts the events of the comic.

This makes sense to me.

 

[Antvasima]

I will comment on this on the 28th or 29th.

Thank you for helping out.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I will let Weekly perhaps elaborate. But if there is more recent issues about the movie being contradictory to the comics, I could see the comics being retconned perhaps unless the cast isn't quite the same as the cast from the comics or if one or the other chronologically takes place before the other. Such as the movie taking place before the comic.

But I'll maybe let other supporters try to clarify and/or explain before weighing in on a verdict.

 

[Antvasima]

Generally I much prefer if the main canon (the cartoons) confirms the secondary canon (the comic books) in some way.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It does yeah, not gonna derail after this but to sum it up, RWBY is in the same boat as stuff like Disney Star Wars and League of Legends, where they have a core series and then a bunch of canon extra-media side stories (other shows, comics, books, games, etc.) that are all canon to that core series. The writers for RWBY are very clear on what is and is non-canon to the series

This should have been posted here, but this sounds about right.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

At work atm, will respond in full in a few hours

 

[Deagonx]

I'm open to changing my mind, but I'd need to see compelling evidence. The reddit post linked above is not sufficient to make that conclusion given that it wasn't referring to the JL crossover.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Generally I much prefer if the main canon (the cartoons) confirms the secondary canon (the comic books) in some way.

It does actually, the comic gave the canon explanation for how Remnant found out that Dust cannot function outside of the planet's atmosphere as Atlas tried to send people to space and it failed, where the comic revealed that the astronaut for this mission was RWBY's version of Cyborg

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not home yet but I'm on break so I've got a few minutes, figured I'd respond to this as it seems to still be a point of confusion for some reason.

I don't believe it qualifies as being canon to the show, because the evidence used to support that is an interview statement from before the crossover, and refers to the older RWBY comics published by DC.

Moreover, my understanding is that the new movie is definitely canon to the show, which means the comic cannot be, as it contradicts the events of the comic.

The film doesnt contradict the events of the comic at all. The comic and the show are two completely different stories, set at two completely different periods in the timeline, with two completely different sets of characters.

The comic takes place between seasons 2 and 3 of rwby, features a team of huntsmen native to Remnant who are loosely based on the justice league in design and appearance (they dont even go by 'The Justice League' until the last page of the comic), and the storyline involves Team RWBY and the JL fighting off a RWBYized version of Starro from taking control of the world.

The film takes place during the timeskip sequence in volume 7, features Team RWBY, Team JNPR. and the actual Justice League from the DC universe pulled into a simulation of Remnant, with the Justice League turned into teenagers as a result, and the storyline involves fighting Killgore, who was working with someone from Remnant to trap the teams in said simulation.

The film doesnt contradict the comic at all, theyre two completely different stories, and the argument Jinx has been making that 'Team RWBY doesnt remember the justice league so the comic isnt canon' holds no water because Team RWBY has never met the actual Justice League before this film.

 

[Deagonx]

The comic takes place between seasons 2 and 3 of rwby, features a team of huntsmen native to Remnant who are loosely based on the justice league in design and appearance (they dont even go by 'The Justice League' until the last page of the comic), and the storyline involves Team RWBY and the JL fighting off a RWBYized version of Starro from taking control of the world.

The film takes place during the timeskip sequence in volume 7, features Team RWBY, Team JNPR. and the actual Justice League from the DC universe pulled into a simulation of Remnant, with the Justice League turned into teenagers as a result, and the storyline involves fighting Killgore, who was working with someone from Remnant to trap the teams in said simulation.

I'm aware, but are vastly underselling the connection. The Comic Justice League wasn't "loosely based on the JL." Loosely based on is how I would described The Guardians in Invincible, or The Seven in The Boys. The Justice League in the comics have the same names, same power set, and costumes ranging from identical to very similar, like Batman:

So, especially if this movie is meant to take place after the crossover comic, Jinx is right:

The film doesnt contradict the comic at all, and the argument Jinx has been making that 'Team RWBY doesnt remember the justice league so the comic isnt canon' holds no water because Team RWBY has never met the actual Justice League before this film.

The idea that they didn't recognize the movie justice league, or that there was no acknowledgement or recognition of these nearly identical set of heroes, with the same power sets, names, and costumes, is just completely unreasonable in my opinion.

I don't think we need to go in circles about it, if you're willing to argue such a point in the first place I don't think we will get any where in terms of convincing eachother, but at least for my part, this is a complete and unambiguous nonstarter in terms of continuity. I'll leave it to the other staff to see if they agree, but that is definitely my take on it.

With that aside, we should now get into the alleged evidence of canonicity of the crossover comic

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I see my edit didnt go through, thank you work wifi...

But I should also point out that Team RWBY explicitly had their memories wiped and altered at the start of the movie

 

[Deagonx]

Team RWBY explicitly had their memories wiped

I Googled a plot summary and this really doesn't appear to be the case at all?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I Googled a plot summary and this really doesn't appear to be the case at all?

I can grab scans if youd like, their memories were altered to the point that none of them even remembered that Beacon was destroyed and ozpin died until they were talking with an illusion of Ozpin that was glitching between Oz and Oscar

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Batman's design in the Animation appears to be slightly different than the comics; you see how the Bat Emblem isn't even touching the black sleeves in the comic but is in the animation? Also, "Loosely" can mean a lot of things and two can one can be extremely similar but still not perfect while others can be like they're just barely references to them. Having the same names, fighting styles, as well as superpowers isn't quite enough to make them identical to their original counterparts. I think what Weekly is trying to say is that the Movie version of the JL aren't even the same JL as the ones from the comics given the ones that appear in the comics have always lived in Remnant but the ones that appear in the movie where transported via some alternate dimension. This isn't the first time some alternate dimension version happens to look very similar to someone who exists in the main dimension. Think Spider-Man No Way home in which there were three Spider-Men. They're all loosely based on the comic book Spider-Man but in different ways. And they all came from different timelines within the same multiverse.

I think the comic JL and Animated JL are the same differences more or less. One team was born in Remnant while the Animated version came from a different dimension. But they're both canon chapters within the RWBY timeline.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Batman's design in the Animation appears to be slightly different than the comics; you see how the Bat Emblem isn't even touching the black sleeves in the comic but is in the animation? Also, "Loosely" can mean a lot of things and two can one can be extremely similar but still not perfect while others can be like they're just barely references to them. Having the same names, fighting styles, as well as superpowers isn't quite enough to make them identical to their original counterparts. I think what Weekly is trying to say is that the Movie version of the JL aren't even the same JL as the ones from the comics given the ones that appear in the comics have always lived in Remnant but the ones that appear in the movie where transported via some alternate dimension. This isn't the first time some alternate dimension version happens to look very similar to someone who exists in the main dimension. Think Spider-Man No Way home in which there were three Spider-Men. They're all loosely based on the comic book Spider-Man but in different ways. And they all came from different timelines within the same multiverse.

I think the comic JL and Animated JL are the same differences more or less. One team was born in Remnant while the Animated version came from a different dimension. But they're both canon chapters within the RWBY timeline.

On top of this, batman in the comics just had bat ears, while in the movie he had giant bat wings

Also The cast didnt even meet him until 3/4th of the way through the film

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But yeah, I'm almost done with my shift, I will post scans and give more in depth explanations to the issues brought up when I get home

 

[Deagonx]

Batman's design in the Animation appears to be slightly different than the comics; you see how the Bat Emblem isn't even touching the black sleeves in the comic but is in the animation?

Sure, but the resemblance is extremely strong.

Having the same names, fighting styles, as well as superpowers isn't quite enough to make them identical to their original counterparts

Not identical, I know that, but enough that they should've recognized them. Especially as a group.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sure, but the resemblance is extremely strong.

Not identical, I know that, but enough that they should've recognized them. Especially as a group.

How would they recognize people they've never met? Also again, the only ones with close resemblances are batman (who the cast never meets until near the end of the movie, and even then he has a lot of differences from the comic design) and superman, everyone else is drastically different in design, on top of aquaman being replaced with vixen.

 

[Deagonx]

How would they recognize people they never met?

Because it's a group of seven people with extremely similar appearances, identical names, power sets, to people they know and fought alongside. They'd recognize them for the same reason I immediately recognize that the Seven is a group of Justice League copycats despite being much more different than RWBY comic JL and RWBY movie JL.

The idea that the resemblance wouldn't be remarked upon or brought up is totally insane to me.

This feels like the kind of argument that willfully foregoes common sense in order to achieve a certain objective. Like, you really want this comic to be canon, so even the ridiculous notion that people well acquainted with Bat-Ears Bruce would see an identical individual with bat wings instead of ears and say "oh damn who's this guy? Never seen him before. Sure it's a coincidence that he's also teaming up with people that also look just like the rest of the Justice League."

Come on. That's so far beyond what's reasonable that I can't believe I have to spell it out.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

1. Again, they had their memories erased

2. Again, they did not even meet batman until the end of the movie

3. RWBY barely ever directly acknowledges extended media, the first and only time it's donethat is in the recent season where we got a few seconds shot of a still frame from one of the novelst

 

[Deagonx]

1. Again, they had their memories erased

So you say, but I haven't seen any indication of that. Did they recognize each other?

2. Again, they did not even meet batman until the end of the movie

Cool. Did they recognize him as a near copycat of their former comrade? What about the rest of the league with similar appearances, costumes, names, and powers?

3. RWBY barely ever directly acknowledges extended media

That doesn't work in your favor.

Still waiting on the evidence of canonicity.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Having read the c*mics and watched the movie I'm gonna agree with @Deagonx here that they can't be simultaneously canonical, unless more evidence comes up. The cast meeting another version of a superhero team they met prior and not recognizing them at all in spite of their striking similarities doesn't make sense.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Having read the c*mics and watched the movie I'm gonna agree with @Deagonx here that they can't be simultaneously canonical, unless more evidence comes up. The cast meeting another version of a superhero team they met prior and not recognizing them at all in spite of their striking similarities doesn't make sense.

As someone who has also seen both, i wholeheartedly disagree, and will be explaniing in great detail why in a few minutes nowthat im home from work

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So for the sake of not postnig the same argument on both threads, is this one gonna be closed?