Minor Cthulhu Mythos Revisions

[KingPin0422]

I'm very bad with introductions, so I'll get right to the point: I have a few changes to propose regarding the listed tiers of the highest three entities of the Cthulhu Mythos.

Shub-Niggurath
Currently, Shub-Niggurath is rated as "At least 1-A" for transcending the hierarchy of the Ultimate Gods. I, however, feel like the "At least" is unnecessary.

You see, "At least 1-A" would imply that Shub-Niggurath is close to Yog-Sothoth in power, when Shub is evidently far too limited in comparison. Just because Shub is above the Ultimate God pantheon does not mean that she can be compared to someone like Yog-Sothoth, who is truly limitless and sees all of existence as fragmentary, with even the Ultimate Gods being literally less than fodder to him.

Sure, you could argue that "At least 1-A" just means that Shub is essentially the strongest 1-A character in her verse that isn't High 1-A or 0, but the "At least" modifier is meant to indicate that the given tier is a low-end, and I doubt that Shub can be argued as being even close to High 1-A.

Yog-Sothoth
Yog's avatar, 'Umr at-Tawil, is tiered as "1-A, possibly higher". I'm not sure if this is the same case as Shub-Niggurath or if it just means that 'Umr could be a higher degree of 1-A than what he is shown to be, but either way, it's unnecessary.

It is made quite clear that 'Umr at-Tawil guards the Ultimate Gate, so by extension he would be inferior to the Ultimate Gods because they are what lie beyond it. He has a well-defined level of power. Thus, I see no reason to have the "Possibly higher" part.

As for Yog himself, I don't understand why "Transcends all concepts" is part of his ability sheet. Especially when Hypnos of all people is said to be beyond all concepts.

Azathoth
One thing that I think most people here don't know about Azathoth is that the "Azathoth" that resides at the center of existence is not the real Azathoth. It's more like Azathoth's "body", so to speak.

The main thing about Azathoth is that the entirety of the verse is simply his imagination, including the likes of Yog-Sothoth. Him "waking up" is more like him deciding that all of these thoughts should return to him and stop having an alternate existence.

This "placeholder" Azathoth that the Ultimate Gods encircle is pretty much just a statue to the actual Azathoth. That being said, it is reliably High 1-A by reason of being totally indestructible and having an effect on everything.

And another thing: there is no "likely" about True Azathoth's omniscience. Yog-Sothoth, who is fully omniscient, is still just a figment of Azathoth's imagination.

Conclusion

• Shub-Niggurath and 'Umr at-Tawil should become just plain 1-A.
• Azathoth should receive a High 1-A key for his "body".
• Pointless stuff like "Transcends all concepts" in Yog-Sothoth's ability sheet and Azathoth not being patently fully omniscient should be removed.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Shub:

I agree she is way too vague for "At least 1-A" (which is a tier I'm not even fully comfortable with, on a lot of things). We don't know a ton about her other than the fact she exists, is an Outer God, and is the progenitor of multiple beings. She never even fully appears "in person". She should be 1-A.

Yog-Sothoth:

I agree that 'Umr at-Tawil should be flat 1-A, as well. By the very nature of what it is, it can't be full on Outer God/Archetype level.

I don't think Hypnos transcends all concepts, or something like that. The dude ******' dies. Yeah, he dies to 1-As, but he still "dies". He was supposed to have reached realities that transcend certain human concepts, but I don't think he himself qualifies for something as absolute as "transcends all concepts", which in itself is pretty damn vague.

Azathoth:

I don't think a key for the "fake Azathoth" is necessary. It doesn't really do anything. He sleeps surrounded by a bunch of other gods and Nyarlathotep punches it in the face, at one point. That's about it. Similarly to this, we do not need keys for every possible perception of Yog-Sothoth. Even if real, they're all fractional, and we don't know enough about them to give them anything really meaningful.

 

[Akreious]

I have a question.

Assuming Azathoth actually does stay asleep by the horrid songs the other Gods play, wouldn't that classify Azathoth as High 1-A since that's actually a weakness?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It would, if it was actually "asleep" or if there was literally any level of cause and effect, at that point. Through the Gates of the Silver Key makes it clear that anything these beings can be viewed as doing or actions they appear to be taken are only perspective, which is a something that only affects "limited" beings. At the truest level of existence these entities operate on, all things are a changeless totality, always, forever.