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Minamoto no Raikou vs Raiden Shogun(CONCLUDED)

ThatDarnFish

ThatDarnFish

575
210
Purple Lightning Mom(Raikou) : 7

vs

Purple Lightning Mom(Raiden) : 4


Incon (They makeout):

Which mom is more purple and lightning and mom? And I guess who wins in a fight, too, if you're into that.
Speed Equalized, 6-C to High 6-C keys used (May change based on how fair it is).
I feel like Raikou is the most used Servant in vs stuff after Gilgamesh... If this doesn't work out, I'll change Raikou out for someone else.
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i knew this is going to happen
following

I see that the spatial resistance of Rank D servant only works with space being frozen. so durability negation from Raiden Spatial manip should work here
 
I still don't reach the chapter of Inazuma so this actually hurt me but well.

Raiden to what scale? The 5.7GT or the 34.4GT? Since Raikou base stats scale above the 26.6GT of servants with a Rank A Strength, and with the passive buff of Mystery Killer she is considered strong by others servants with Rank A, on top of that there is the big buff of Mana Burst Rank A, so if Raiden scale to 34.4GT then they should be at least more or less equal, and with Mana Burst Raikou would have the advantage. The buffs of Raikou also increase her strength so I think she also have the advantage in that side. In High 6-C is Raiden instead who have the AP advantage since the Low 6-B part of Ox-King is restricted, but to compensate Raikou have the numbers and her resistances to lightning should reduce the damage so she should be able to fight despite the difference.

Skill wise I think we already know the level of Raikou, and while the profile mention that Raiden it's great, I think she don't really reach the level of Raikou, so Raikou should have the advantage, though probably by not that much.

LS Raikou destroy.

About powers, aside from the space resistance of Magic Resistance Rank D she fought against Musashi who can bend space so Raikou should resist. Because of the divinity of Raikou she greatly resist electric damage on top of her MR, by the same reason Raiden shouldn't be able to null her lightning. The immortality type 6 should be problematic, but if is reached that point then Raikou would use conceptual attacks.

By SBA they begin at 4 km apart right? Then how probable it's that Raiden abuse the distance instead of go to cqc? Because that's the main way in how I see her winning.
 
Despite the above post and that I still don't know Raiden, I really like her design and the fact that she use lightning, so she is one of the characters that I really want and my main objetive in the gacha.
 
4KM apart Raiden would probably start using lightning and storm clouds.

Raiden should be 34 GT
The problem with Raiden Shogun is she won't hesitate using Musou right away if raikou comes in range that even if he resists durability negation the massive AP gap would 1 shot
and she'll definitely use it more if she sees Raikou not being affected by lightning from cloud generation
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
4KM apart Raiden would probably start using lightning and storm clouds.

Raiden should be 34 GT
The problem with Raiden Shogun is she won't hesitate using Musou right away if raikou comes in range that even if he resists durability negation the massive AP gap would 1 shot
and she'll definitely use it more if she sees Raikou not being affected by lightning from cloud generation
Click to expand...
The first probably isn't dangerous with the resistance of Raiko, it would be more troublesome than anything do to the numbers.

If Raikou feel the power of the attack or if her combat instincts tell her the danger of it she would use the clones and defend with them as she have made before (against Suzuka), so she should survive it. Raiden can spam it? Because if that's the case then Raikou is ******.
 
it's basically a technique so yeah
likely spammable

can't raikou go off with some range after witnessing it once using bow and mana burst attacks instead of going in range against her
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
it's basically a technique so yeah
likely spammable

can't raikou go off with some range after witnessing it once using bow and mana burst attacks instead of going in range against her
Click to expand...
There are techniques that aren't spammable so I would like more confirmation if this is one of them. She don't use it various times in the fight against the traveler? As I said I still don't reach Inazuma (because the bullshit lightnings in the ocean and that even when they don't kill me and continue to advance the game teleported me) so I don't know how she fight.

The profile only say that she can reach several hundreds meters with bow and Mana Burst, so while I would really like if she have a range of kilometers, I honestly don't remember anything like that from her so she can't touch Raiden, maybe if she can close the distance to something like less than a kilometer she could attack from distance?

Edit: After see better Excaliburn have a range of 1~99 while Ox-King 1~100 so the lightning of the NP should scale to kilometers, but that part of the NP it's Low 6-B so it can't be used.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
There are techniques that aren't spammable so I would like more confirmation if this is one of them. She don't use it various times in the fight against the traveler? As I said I still don't reach Inazuma (because the bullshit lightnings in the ocean and that even when they don't kill me and continue to advance the game teleported me) so I don't know how she fight.

The profile only say that she can reach several hundreds meters with bow and Mana Burst, so while I would really like if she have a range of kilometers, I honestly don't remember anything like that from her so she can't touch Raiden, maybe if she can close the distance to something like less than a kilometer she could attack from distance?

Edit: After see better Excaliburn have a range of 1~99 while Ox-King 1~100 so the lightning of the NP should scale to kilometers, but that part of the NP it's Low 6-B so it can't be used.
Click to expand...
Yes, Raiden can spam it.
 
Honestly Raiden shouldn't have a normal 6-C key imo, since the 34GT yield was only the leftover power of her attack that actually hit the island, and isn't its full power, and I highly doubt her base power is that much lower than her power with MNH.

But at least based on the current profile, Base Raiden scales massively above 5.7GT to the point that listing it is almost kind of misleading. Raikou would have the advantage in AP, but it wouldn't be that big of a gap; being about 3-4x at most.

Musou no Hitotachi isn't really spammable, but it's not exactly used sparingly either. The Shogun isn't so wasteful with her energy that she'd throw it out again and again, so while I feel that she'd open with it, I doubt she'd use it again afterwards unless forced to.

Skill wise I'd argue Raiden is more skilled, but again, it's close enough that I doubt it'd make any difference.

About Raikou's divinity-based resistance, how does it interact with full deity in her verse? Considering verse equalization, I feel like this should be a non-factor considering Raiden's status as one of the leading 7 gods in world that once had thousands.

Not sure about that resistance to spatial manip though. Bending space and cutting through space are two hugely different levels of space manip, unless I'm forgetting something about Musashi.
 
Solacis said:
Honestly Raiden shouldn't have a normal 6-C key imo, since the 34GT yield was only the leftover power of her attack that actually hit the island, and isn't its full power, and I highly doubt her base power is that much lower than her power with MNH.

But at least based on the current profile, Base Raiden scales massively above 5.7GT to the point that listing it is almost kind of misleading. Raikou would have the advantage in AP, but it wouldn't be that big of a gap; being about 3-4x at most.

Musou no Hitotachi isn't really spammable, but it's not exactly used sparingly either. The Shogun isn't so wasteful with her energy that she'd throw it out again and again, so while I feel that she'd open with it, I doubt she'd use it again afterwards unless forced to.

Skill wise I'd argue Raiden is more skilled, but again, it's close enough that I doubt it'd make any difference.

About Raikou's divinity-based resistance, how does it interact with full deity in her verse? Considering verse equalization, I feel like this should be a non-factor considering Raiden's status as one of the leading 7 gods in world that once had thousands.

Not sure about that resistance to spatial manip though. Bending space and cutting through space are two hugely different levels of space manip, unless I'm forgetting something about Musashi.
Click to expand...
A 3-4x gap it's something considerable but well, as you said it would be at most so let's think it's a 2 or 2,5x gap. If later the AP of Raiden really become High 6-C then in that momment can be done a rematch.

I feel a bit confused because one say is spammablea and the other that isn't gonna do it, but well, if she isn't gonna abuse it then Raikou have a chance.

Let's say then that they are basically equal in skill and if one really have the advantage it's by little and thus there wouldn't be a impact in the match.

Her interaction with divinities is that do to actually have a high level of divinity as the daughter of Indra and one of his avatars she have authority (like is show in Heian-kyo and I think Imaginary Scramble) and above others divinities unless they are equals to Indra or above him (like how Suzuka said she would have lost if Raikou used her power), though Raikou don't really like to use her divinity unless necessary and thus restrict it most of the time (at least in her berserker self), but she can't restrict it completely since the power it's part of it and her lightning come from it, this is the reason of why she still have a Divinity Rank C, can pass special defenses like the one of Saver and can use the lightning. In short, it should just reduce considerable the damage she receive from lightning and Raiden shouldn't be able to null it, probably she can lessen the damage but not null it.

I mean, it would be weird that MR D specifically just resist the froze of space and the bending of space but for some reason not resist the cute of space, more when Rank D don't have the ability to affect the surroundings and just the things that directly affect the user, but well, maybe other can think of a specific time in which someone specifically with MR D wasn't spatially cut or later I could think in one case like that.

With the difference in AP and LS I think Raikou should win in cqc, more if she uses the clones to have the numbers advantage. But crossing all the distance while Raiden attack is hard, if she Raiden spam to her MNH from distance then she win, if not (which I'm gonna believe she isn't gonna do based in Solacis) I think Raikou should win with difficulty, so for the moment my vote go to her.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
A 3-4x gap it's something considerable but well, as you said it would be at most so let's think it's a 2 or 2,5x gap. If later the AP of Raiden really become High 6-C then in that momment can be done a rematch.

I feel a bit confused because one say is spammablea and the other that isn't gonna do it, but well, if she isn't gonna abuse it then Raikou have a chance.

Let's say then that they are basically equal in skill and if one really have the advantage it's by little and thus there wouldn't be a impact in the match.

Her interaction with divinities is that do to actually have a high level of divinity as the daughter of Indra and one of his avatars she have authority (like is show in Heian-kyo and I think Imaginary Scramble) and above others divinities unless they are equals to Indra or above him (like how Suzuka said she would have lost if Raikou used her power), though Raikou don't really like to use her divinity unless necessary and thus restrict it most of the time (at least in her berserker self), but she can't restrict it completely since the power it's part of it and her lightning come from it, this is the reason of why she still have a Divinity Rank C, can pass special defenses like the one of Saver and can use the lightning. In short, it should just reduce considerable the damage she receive from lightning and Raiden shouldn't be able to null it, probably she can lessen the damage but not null it.

I mean, it would be weird that MR D specifically just resist the froze of space and the bending of space but for some reason not resist the cute of space, more when Rank D don't have the ability to affect the surroundings and just the things that directly affect the user, but well, maybe other can think of a specific time in which someone specifically with MR D wasn't spatially cut or later I could think in one case like that.

With the difference in AP and LS I think Raikou should win in cqc, more if she uses the clones to have the numbers advantage. But crossing all the distance while Raiden attack is hard, if she Raiden spam to her MNH from distance then she win, if not (which I'm gonna believe she isn't gonna do based in Solacis) I think Raikou should win with difficulty, so for the moment my vote go to her.
Click to expand...
"Gathering truths unnumbered and wishes uncounted, the Raiden Shogun unleashes the Musou no Hitotachi and deals AoE Electro DMG, using Musou Isshin in combat for a certain duration afterward." (https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Secret_Art:_Musou_Shinsetsu)

I guess Musou Shinsetsu isn't exactly the same as Musou no Hitotachi but Steelbreaker still allows for a certain degree of durability negation with Musou Isshin and it's definitely still a boost for her.
 
Spatial cuts and existence erasure is Altera's regular attack as noted on her profile, and some servant who fought with her was able to survive.
 
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some servant who might have different magical resistance than D
you need to be exact on whom she directly interacted.
you can't just slap all servants because some interacted. there is a reason why servants have different class for each of skills to define what they can and cannot resist
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
some servant who might have different magical resistance than D
you need to be exact on whom she directly interacted.
you can't just slap all servants because some interacted. there is a reason why servants have different class for each of skills to define what they can and cannot resist
Click to expand...
it's a tamamo that doesn't even have magic resistance, and not only that, all servants who fought with Altera were able to survive her attacks.
 
then show scans with servant with at least D rank magic resistance surviving her spatial cuts

also tamamo since tamamo not having magic resistance and surviving her spatial cut should be noted on servant page as further scans for resistance if it does
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
then show scans with servant with at least D rank magic resistance surviving her spatial cuts

also tamamo since tamamo not having magic resistance and surviving her spatial cut should be noted on servant page as further scans for resistance if it does
Click to expand...
Here, it's actually noted at the resistance to existence erasure on the servant physiology page, it's not noted at the resistance to spatial manipulation because people will definitely focus on improving others stuff.

I will add more explanation if I will make CRT.
 
Since Raiden Musuou no hitotachi is pretty much 1 shot
shouldn't we allow Minamoto NP as well?

unlike Raiden Minamoto doesn't really use it instantly and if ever she somehow dodges Raiden's first Musuou then at least she can use something similar to balance the field

because right now the moment Raiden uses musuou (which she does a lot since Raiden Automaton don't really hold back against enemies) and that's kinda making it lean more with Raiden right now even if she resist the durability negation

Edit : I read the op again

its a matter of who can dodge someone's one-shot ability
 
I vote Raikou for mommy by the way. Sorry, I mean mommy, I mean mommy, no sorry. Mommy, I mean mommy I--
What's the damage so far?
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
With the difference in AP and LS I think Raikou should win in cqc, more if she uses the clones to have the numbers advantage. But crossing all the distance while Raiden attack is hard, if Raiden spam to her MNH from distance then she win, if not (which I'm gonna believe she isn't gonna do based in Solacis) I think Raikou should win with difficulty, so for the moment my vote go to her.
Click to expand...
I already voted for Raikou.
 
Finally a debatable GI vs Fate match-up.

So from what I'm getting from this, they both one-shot (Raiden with MNH and Raikou with her NP), but it depends on who is one-shoting the other, Idon't know shit about Raikou besides her being hot tbh, but looking at her profile Iwould assume she is the more skilled of the two by a decent amount, but Raiden also has a massive experience edge, so it somewhat cancels it out.

But where I think Raiden starts to pull ahead is Range, skill can't do much when you're fighting someone who's sword slashes can slice through multiple islands casually, i don't really see a way Raikou can actually get into CBC to use her NP, and although Raiden can't spam the initial hit of MNH, from her boss fight it does look like she's able to keep up the form indefinitely, so she's able to one-shot Raikou at any point, even from range.

Although I am siding with Raiden, im not voting jusr yet because as I've said, i know shit about Raikou, but i can see her winning if she does have a way of getting into CBC without getting Musano GG'd, but I'll just wait for people more knowledgeable on her to agrue for her, but i do lean with Raiden winning.
 
Ronin119 said:
Finally a debatable GI vs Fate match-up.

So from what I'm getting from this, they both one-shot (Raiden with MNH and Raikou with her NP), but it depends on who is one-shoting the other, Idon't know shit about Raikou besides her being hot tbh, but looking at her profile Iwould assume she is the more skilled of the two by a decent amount, but Raiden also has a massive experience edge, so it somewhat cancels it out.

But where I think Raiden starts to pull ahead is Range, skill can't do much when you're fighting someone who's sword slashes can slice through multiple islands casually, i don't really see a way Raikou can actually get into CBC to use her NP, and although Raiden can't spam the initial hit of MNH, from her boss fight it does look like she's able to keep up the form indefinitely, so she's able to one-shot Raikou at any point, even from range.

Although I am siding with Raiden, im not voting jusr yet because as I've said, i know shit about Raikou, but i can see her winning if she does have a way of getting into CBC without getting Musano GG'd, but I'll just wait for people more knowledgeable on her to agrue for her, but i do lean with Raiden winning.
Click to expand...
Since from how the OP is worded I assume Raikou have restricted the main part of her NP (the Low 6-B thing) she can use it to become High 6-C and use the clones that also are High 6-C to defend against it (she have showed before use them as shields if needed) since the difference in AP would be just a x2 which is far from one-shot, the main problem would be if Raiden spam it a lot abusing the distance to overwhelm Raikou. Also since she isn't mainly focusing her energy to charge the final blow of it she probably can use it instead to make more clones if they are defeated, so there is also that possibility.

As I said before I personally think it's a close fight and thus can see both of them winning, it's just that for the reasons above I can see Raikou closing the distance so get into CBC and win in great part do to the difference in LS.
 
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