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Eldemade, stop replying. I'm about to end this man's career
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MGnF Explanation Page Revision
- Thread starter MaxLevel_King
- Start date
- Status
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,917
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Then I take that as concession for you not proving Balzarondo Statement as literal.
He didn't said it's because Seven Elenesia it doens't work. He said in this world which is deeper than yours. Stop saying whatever comes to your mind.
What's your purpose of this thread then. Each World has Hierarchy which still gives layers of haxes nonetheless whatever you claim.
That's your Burden of proof
Keywords from LN states Each World Exists in Hierarchy. Show me scan from narratively Stating only Hierarchy existing between layer 1 and 20 that's your headcanon. Which was never stated.
Thats your burden. Eve Zenio and Magic Bullet World both are deep world and Besbed was working fine in Eve Zenio. Also you claimed that other magic from deep world works in Magic bullet world prove it Eve Zenio or holy sword world orders working in Magic bullet world.
Transcending space-time and dimensions it can Bypass durability of the characters it doens't change what I claimed. It can directly move inside character body just like how It pierced Jenel wolf. Also Eges was using Deep Zelis don't ask me what TF that is. Its already in Cosmology blog. I can't spoon feed everything.
Your post don't have scan for layer 1 character Destroying something in layer 2.
Sure call staffs.
Burden is on you to Prove this
You are so sure Layer 2 ship don't have durability of Layer 1 World. Then you need to prove it by sending scans. Otherwise it's your Burden of Proof. Balzarondo statement clearly mentioned only about in this deep world nothing else. And Narratively Keywords from LN states EACH World exists in an Hierarchy. Nice good luck accepting your CRT with no scans or whatever.
EldemadeDityjon
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I thought I would have to get into a debate again.... As far as I can see it is not necessary, disagree, the OP practically does not know what he is talking about, not only did I discuss this with him previously but the points are against the OP, more so because it seems he does not even know how to interpret what the scans say and assumes things that go against the scans twisting the facts as seen in the discussion above, simply ignoring the scans I sent in the verse thread where it clearly states that magical power and order flow from the shallows layers to the deepers layers and that the deeper it flows the more powerful the weight of order and magical power, hence the reference to the difference between layers, which according to the OP only refers to the world they are in and not to any deep world but ignoring that it says Deeper than your world not Deep world, which indicates that the deeper the world then the stronger it is and that is supported by what I already said about the magical power that flows between the layers.
Here's my post explaining it.
Anyway, I'll make a simple explanation
Of the 99+ layers the different characters categorized the layers as, shallows, mediums and deeps this is just in name only to have the basics that are then explained in relation to the statments of both the novel and the keywords.
In the novel the emphasis is on power and order flowing from the shallow layers to the deeper ones, there is no middle ground in power in reality as they are only classified in name.
As previously stated, there is a hierarchy in the silver sea, and it says that the more fire dew a world has, it will determine its position, whether it will be shallow, deeper or even deeper than it already was and it clearly says that the more there is, the stronger the world and the power of the order and the deeper it will sink, we know that if a world sinks, it will become deeper, the same happens if it sinks it will become even deeper although it will sink into a new layer it will be considered as a baseline in that layer.
Let's refer again to the keyword that explains the hierarchy.
And lastly, here mainly in the highlighted parts they show that the inhabitants of a shallow world can face the inhabitants of a deep world using fire dew as a catalyst, which results in gaining a large amount of magical power equal to that of the deep world but has a limit based on the amount of magical power its user can use.
I think with this it should be more than clear that the difference applies and relates to all the layers due to its composition of LAYERS and what I already explained. I am confident that this will not turn into 5 pages or more and I am sorry that my knowledge of the verse is not at all comparable to Null's, He would have already put a rein on the whole thing.
This is basic mathematics, 1 is less than 2, 2 is greater than 1 but less than 3, 3 is greater than 2 but less than 4 and so on, and clearly they are 99 layers, so it is the same.
Here's my post explaining it.
Anyway, I'll make a simple explanation
| “ | "If there's a shallow-layer auditorium, does that mean there's a deep-layer one?" "There is a middle-layer auditorium and a deep-layer auditorium. The first to tenth layers is the Shallow Worlds, the eleventh to twentieth layers is the Middle Worlds, and beyond the twentieth layer is the Deep Worlds." Didn't Balzarondo's subordinates refer to the Militia World as the first layer World? "How do you classify them?" When I asked, Ottlulu softly jumped on the spot and landed at the podium. She sent her magic power to the blackboard that had been set up there. "The World's depth is the strength of the World's Order. It refers to the great influence the Small Worlds have on the Silver Sea. Magic power flows from the Shallow Layer to the Deep Layer, and the Order exerts its power from Shallow to Deep." The spherical blackboard must have been a magical tool as it was transparent and what appeared inside were silver bubbles. It seemingly imitated five Shallow Layer Worlds and one Deep Layer World. "Let's say, for example, that the Shallow Layer Worlds have a magic power of 10 and the weight of their Order is 10. The same goes for the Deep Layer World." 'Shallow Layer World: Magic Power: 10. Weight: 10' 'Deep Layer World: Magic Power: 10. Weight: 10' was added. "According to the Order of the Silver Sea, magic power flows to the deep layer and the Order exerts its power to the depths. The magic power of the Shallow Layer World shifts by one, same for its Order." One magic power and weight are subtracted. It was rewritten as 'Shallow Layer World: Magic Power 9. Weight 9'. "The magic power and Order are given to the Deep Layer World, turning it into power." From each of the five Shallow Layer Worlds, one magic power and weight are transferred for a total of five magic power and weight, which are added to the ones the Deep Layer World originally had. There, the Deep Layer World becomes 'Magic Power 15, Weight 15'. "It's actually not that simple, but this is the basic principle of the Silver Sea's Order. A small world that possesses numerous magic power and a strong functioning Order is heavy and sinks into the depths. Thus, it is considered deep." |
Of the 99+ layers the different characters categorized the layers as, shallows, mediums and deeps this is just in name only to have the basics that are then explained in relation to the statments of both the novel and the keywords.
In the novel the emphasis is on power and order flowing from the shallow layers to the deeper ones, there is no middle ground in power in reality as they are only classified in name.
| “ | "Because it's inefficient to measure all of the small world's order and the amount of magic power it possesses, we'll use the amount of fire dew it possesses to determine the hierarchy. The more fire dew a small world has, the deeper it is located." Location is not a matter of place, but of the strength of order in that world. "Are you saying that the deep world is taking the fire dew away from the shallow world?" "That understanding is fine, but the fire dew belongs to no one. It is an order in the Silver Sea. The fire dew is something that travels across the sea and through various bubbles." [...] "Magic power flows from shallow to deep, and fire dew flows from shallow to deep." [...] "The fire dew that is released from the bubble world is what every Sovereign desires in order to bring the lesser worlds to the deeper levels. Fire Dew is a force. The more of it there is, the stronger it is, the deeper the world becomes." |
As previously stated, there is a hierarchy in the silver sea, and it says that the more fire dew a world has, it will determine its position, whether it will be shallow, deeper or even deeper than it already was and it clearly says that the more there is, the stronger the world and the power of the order and the deeper it will sink, we know that if a world sinks, it will become deeper, the same happens if it sinks it will become even deeper although it will sink into a new layer it will be considered as a baseline in that layer.
Let's refer again to the keyword that explains the hierarchy.
From deeper the world, more powerful its order and its inhabitants, taking into account the explanation of the fire dew that each world can sink further into the sea and that increases its power as the weight of order and magical power in general and also that the order and magical power flow layer by layer from the shallow to the deep, it can be clearly seen the hierarchy established by layer and that the statment about the difference supports my claim.
This same world can continue to gain fire dew and thus continue to increase its power since there is no limit to the amount of fire dew a world can absorb.
| “ | Fire Dew Something that flows through the Fundamental Laws Cyclic Garden, the domains of the Four Fundamental Laws Gods, equivalent to the term "Source" in the world of mortals. It is born, deepens, meets its demise, changes and cycles back to birth again, gradually decreasing its total amount in the process. | „ |
| ~ LN Volume 10 (I); Keyword |
| “ | Fire Dew A visualization of the laws that affect the "Source" of the earth, which flows in the depths of the "Azure Sky of the Gods". It is the very power itself that the world contains, and the strength of the world's order is approximately equivalent to the total amount of fire dew that it contains. |
And lastly, here mainly in the highlighted parts they show that the inhabitants of a shallow world can face the inhabitants of a deep world using fire dew as a catalyst, which results in gaining a large amount of magical power equal to that of the deep world but has a limit based on the amount of magical power its user can use.
I think with this it should be more than clear that the difference applies and relates to all the layers due to its composition of LAYERS and what I already explained. I am confident that this will not turn into 5 pages or more and I am sorry that my knowledge of the verse is not at all comparable to Null's, He would have already put a rein on the whole thing.
This is basic mathematics, 1 is less than 2, 2 is greater than 1 but less than 3, 3 is greater than 2 but less than 4 and so on, and clearly they are 99 layers, so it is the same.
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MaxLevel_King
He/Him- 356
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I can't believe that you've just said all of that. Because you're arguing against something I didn't disagree with to begin with. I've already admitted multiple times that the deeper a World the stronger it is. A deeper World will have stronger magic and Order than a shallower World. That's a fact. What I was arguing was that a Shallow World (Layers 1-10) destroying magic not being able to destroy a ship from a Deep World (Layers 21-99+) doesn't apply to the gap between a Layer 1 World and a Layer 2 World.
Don't bother writing long replies if you're going to argue against something I never even disagreed with.
MaxLevel_King
He/Him- 356
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I'm looking forward to it. Be prepared to have your entire argument debunked.
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I have to make things clear man, then you will go against what I said and I will have to explain everything again, nah for that I just explain everything you can use to try to support your argument in any way. Besides what you are supposed to be arguing clearly I have the counter in my post, but sure, just wait for the staff.
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Wow, dereck has pretty much handled most of this so all that's left for me to do is offer support to his argument.
Unfortunately for you, it's not even an assumption. It's directly stated in the story.
This statement is made by fellow students in the shallow world (Layers 1-10) auditorium. Not just this, the deep world they refer to here is the "Castle Building World, Balandias".
Why would fellow shallow layer inhabitants refer to balandias as a deep world? Simple, it's because they're from shallow layers above it or balandias is slightly deeper than it in the same layer.
Even more shocking is that balandias is a world that's merely in layer 2 of the silver sea not even layer 5-10 but layer 2.
Further evidence against this refutation.
Refutation 1 Debunked
♂. Never before have i seen an OP that posts scans that debunks their own arguments.
Like I've told you multiple times, you need to go read the story from the beginning. Simple assumptions can be made from the evidence given already.
Unfortunately for you, it's not even an assumption. It's directly stated in the story.
Would you look at that, your first refutation is already countered here.
This statement is made by fellow students in the shallow world (Layers 1-10) auditorium. Not just this, the deep world they refer to here is the "Castle Building World, Balandias".
Why would fellow shallow layer inhabitants refer to balandias as a deep world? Simple, it's because they're from shallow layers above it or balandias is slightly deeper than it in the same layer.
Even more shocking is that balandias is a world that's merely in layer 2 of the silver sea not even layer 5-10 but layer 2.
As you can see from the quote above. Cartinas the Head of State of Balandias confirms himself that even factoring in world destroying magic, the only way for the Militia World to stand a chance against them is to gain magic from the same layer as balandias or magic even deeper than that. He also says himself that his world is in layer 2.
Further evidence against this refutation.
Here the main characters themselves (Militia World Inhabitants) who are in Layer 1 refer to balandias in Layer 2 as a "Deep World" or "Deeper World".
Refutation 1 Debunked
Wow, oh my god just wow
♂. Never before have i seen an OP that posts scans that debunks their own arguments.
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Dear god imagine a 6th crt on after this.
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Sorry Dereck, I am tired of this just like you
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I still agree with Dereck here.
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Well, i forgot to complete the debunk before sending so here's the rest of it.
♂. Never before have i seen an OP that posts scans that debunks their own arguments
The scan itself says the magic power and order released by the shallow worlds are directly added to the deep worlds. It honestly can't get any more blatant than this.
Further evidence;
Therefore, all deep worlds gain fire dew from the countless worlds above them.
A world sinks because of its weight. The weight increases depending on the amount of fire dew it has accumulated. Its weight determines its position/depth in the silver sea and its depth is what determines the strength of its order because "Order exerts more power/influence at the depths".
In other words, the strength of a worlds order is determined by which layer it's in not by the power they've gained.
This two phenomenons are described separate from each other as in the scan above which denotes a hierarchy between the layers.
Further evidence;
For reference sake, Chief Gods like Eques are so strong that if they don't suppress their power, they can destroy the world simply by existing, are weaker than normal inhabitants born in any world deeper than their own. Infact, the demon king train which is eques body could only defend against the attacks of the silver water ships from balandias, destroy one of those ships when it was receiving perpetually an infinite amount of magic power from Eleonore and Ennesuone but subsequently couldn't do so when they started defending against it.
Once again, this is CRT is a misunderstanding caused by the OP's lack of understanding of the series.
Not everything needs to be spoonfed to readers all at once. As you continue with the story even the assumptions/theories made have been proven to be the truth. As such, the explanation blog should remain the same.
Wow, oh my god just wow
♂. Never before have i seen an OP that posts scans that debunks their own argumentsAnyone with reading comprehension can easily understand this.
The scan itself says the magic power and order released by the shallow worlds are directly added to the deep worlds. It honestly can't get any more blatant than this.
Further evidence;
Besides common magic which exists in every bubble for average day to day life, all shallow magic can function properly in deeper worlds/layers, regardless of where, because the Order of those worlds are readily available there as the laws of those shallow worlds are integrated into the deeper ones but deep magic that relies specifically on deep Order can't be used in the shallow worlds because those worlds/layers don't have the necessary Order for them to function.
Therefore, all deep worlds gain fire dew from the countless worlds above them.
There is a transcendence between layers.
A world sinks because of its weight. The weight increases depending on the amount of fire dew it has accumulated. Its weight determines its position/depth in the silver sea and its depth is what determines the strength of its order because "Order exerts more power/influence at the depths".
In other words, the strength of a worlds order is determined by which layer it's in not by the power they've gained.
This two phenomenons are described separate from each other as in the scan above which denotes a hierarchy between the layers.
Refutation 2 Debunked
Thankfully, context has already been provided in the debunk of refutation 1. Inhabitants of Layer 1 referred to a world in layer 2 as not just a "Deeper" world but a "Deep" World which defeats the premise that this only applies to worlds in layer 21-99+.
Further evidence;
Now before i get hit with the usual "This comparison was made by a deep inhabitant from a deep layer" cliche argument...
The bolded portion of the scan was an observation made by anos in reference to the scan above this one. This means that balzarondo statement applies between each layer difference as this is a battle between the Militia world (Layer 0 likely 1) against the Balandias World (Layer 2). In other words, the inhabitant of any world deeper than another, is in fact stronger than the Chief God of the World above it.
For reference sake, Chief Gods like Eques are so strong that if they don't suppress their power, they can destroy the world simply by existing, are weaker than normal inhabitants born in any world deeper than their own. Infact, the demon king train which is eques body could only defend against the attacks of the silver water ships from balandias, destroy one of those ships when it was receiving perpetually an infinite amount of magic power from Eleonore and Ennesuone but subsequently couldn't do so when they started defending against it.
Refutation 3 Debunked
Once again, this is CRT is a misunderstanding caused by the OP's lack of understanding of the series.
Not everything needs to be spoonfed to readers all at once. As you continue with the story even the assumptions/theories made have been proven to be the truth. As such, the explanation blog should remain the same.
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@MaxLevel_King here's the first
and here's the secondWow, dereck has pretty much handled most of this so all that's left for me to do is offer support to his argument.
Like I've told you multiple times, you need to go read the story from the beginning. Simple assumptions can be made from the evidence given already.
Unfortunately for you, it's not even an assumption. It's directly stated in the story.
Would you look at that, your first refutation is already countered here.
This statement is made by fellow students in the shallow world (Layers 1-10) auditorium. Not just this, the deep world they refer to here is the "Castle Building World, Balandias".
Why would fellow shallow layer inhabitants refer to balandias as a deep world? Simple, it's because they're from shallow layers above it or balandias is slightly deeper than it in the same layer.
Even more shocking is that balandias is a world that's merely in layer 2 of the silver sea not even layer 5-10 but layer 2.
As you can see from the quote above. Cartinas the Head of State of Balandias confirms himself that even factoring in world destroying magic, the only way for the Militia World to stand a chance against them is to gain magic from the same layer as balandias or magic even deeper than that. He also says himself that his world is in layer 2.
Further evidence against this refutation.
Here the main characters themselves (Militia World Inhabitants) who are in Layer 1 refer to balandias in Layer 2 as a "Deep World" or "Deeper World".
Refutation 1 Debunked
Wow, oh my god just wow
I'm waiting now come at me bro!Well, i forgot to complete the debunk before sending so here's the rest of it.
Wow, oh my god just wow
Anyone with reading comprehension can easily understand this.
The scan itself says the magic power and order released by the shallow worlds are directly added to the deep worlds. It honestly can't get any more blatant than this.
Further evidence;
Besides common magic which exists in every bubble for average day to day life, all shallow magic can function properly in deeper worlds/layers, regardless of where, because the Order of those worlds are readily available there as the laws of those shallow worlds are integrated into the deeper ones but deep magic that relies specifically on deep Order can't be used in the shallow worlds because those worlds/layers don't have the necessary Order for them to function.
Therefore, all deep worlds gain fire dew from the countless worlds above them.
There is a transcendence between layers.
A world sinks because of its weight. The weight increases depending on the amount of fire dew it has accumulated. Its weight determines its position/depth in the silver sea and its depth is what determines the strength of its order because "Order exerts more power/influence at the depths".
In other words, the strength of a worlds order is determined by which layer it's in not by the power they've gained.
This two phenomenons are described separate from each other as in the scan above which denotes a hierarchy between the layers.
Refutation 2 Debunked
Thankfully, context has already been provided in the debunk of refutation 1. Inhabitants of Layer 1 referred to a world in layer 2 as not just a "Deeper" world but a "Deep" World which defeats the premise that this only applies to worlds in layer 21-99+.
Further evidence;
Now before i get hit with the usual "This comparison was made by a deep inhabitant from a deep layer" cliche argument...
EldemadeDityjon
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This para alone solos this thread. Funny how just learning one deeper layers magic than Balandias is enough to neg Balandias which is clear cut statement for guaranteed win. Here nowhere stated as you guys may have chance with deeper layers magic instead here clearly mentioned you can defeat us with deeper layers magic. So shallow layer magic can't do jackshit to deeper layers magic even if the difference is just 1 layers.
MaxLevel_King
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Thanks. You've made this easy for me.
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Same here.
MaxLevel_King
He/Him- 356
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First;
1. "He is a man who, despite being in the deep world (Layers 21-99+), has adjusted the pecking order so low that he can only fight with lower-ranked (Shallow-layer auditorium) people." This quote clearly states that Fudo King Cartinas (Balandias Head of State) is from a Deep World and is intentionally fighting people below his level, ie Shallow Worlds.
2. Balandias isn't a World in Layer 2. 2nd Balandias is. Fudo King Cartinas is from a Deep World and rules over a Shallow World in Layer 2 (2nd Balandias).
3. He clearly said the highest-level of castle magic that will never fall even if the World is destroyed. You're equating the highest-level of castle magic to a random piece of matter. On top of that, the statement takes into consideration that the world could be destroyed, but that the castle is more durable than the World itself. This statement doesn't support your claim that Layer 1 World-destroying magic can't destroy a ship from a Layer 2 World.
4. Refer to point 1.
Proof;
| Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/502/ "Since you're the head of state, don't think that you're equal. I'm the Fudo King who sits in the depths and rules over the world on the second layer. You've just arrived in Pablohetara, but you're probably a resident of the shallow world. Is it a layer? Say it." Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/503/ "In the name of Pablohetara's God of Judgment, Ottolou, here we will decide the silver water battle between Demon King Academy and Kojo Academy. The date and time will be tomorrow, from the start of Pablohetara. The location will be the free sea area, the second Balandias world." "Second Balandias" means a small world owned by Cartinas. |
Second;
1. Yes, Fire Dew that is released by Shallow Worlds is directly added to Deep Worlds. What you're not understanding is that the Fire Dew that is released by Shallow Worlds is distributed between countless Deep Worlds. A single Deep World doesn't receive Fire Dew from all of the countless Worlds above it, because the rest of that Fire Dew has been taken by other Deep Worlds.
2. Order of Shallow Worlds being too weak to allow for the use of deep magic doesn't prove that Deep Worlds transcend Shallow Worlds, but that Deep Worlds are superior to Shallow Worlds.
3. You're equating superiority with transcendence. Order exerts its power from shallow to deep. Therefore, a Layer 2 World will always be superior to a Layer 1 World. That doesn't mean that the Layer 2 World transcends the Layer 1 World.
Third;
1. Refer to the points made in response to your "debunk" of my 1st refutation.
2. Roncruz is in the body of the Tyrant Noah, one of the strongest people throughout the entire Silver Sea. Of course he could beat Eques.
3. That statement proves the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Anos stated that not every inhabitant of the deep world can easily defeat the main god of the shallow world. That doesn't mean "every inhabitant of the deep world can defeat the main god of the shallow world".
EldemadeDityjon
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3 staff Disagrees with the thread
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one more staff member needed?
i think the dude is going to make another CRT after this anyway
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It has been brought to my attention that there was this thread of discussion in which three staff members, including @Rendynoc0unter, expressed their disagreement.
Based on my understanding, it appears that my friends and members of the management team were awaiting my input on the matter, as I have been occupied with various responsibilities during the weekdays.
After careful consideration and review of the thread, I must express my concurrence with the sentiments expressed by @Dereck03 in his post.
Not all information should be immediately presented to readers in a simplistic and easily digestible manner. As the narrative progresses, it may become evident that certain assumptions or theories that were previously introduced are indeed accurate. Therefore, it is my belief that the explanation blog should remain idempotent in light of these developments. It is important to allow readers to come to their own conclusions and to not detract from the overall experience and engagement with the story by providing all information upfront.
Based on my understanding, it appears that my friends and members of the management team were awaiting my input on the matter, as I have been occupied with various responsibilities during the weekdays.
After careful consideration and review of the thread, I must express my concurrence with the sentiments expressed by @Dereck03 in his post.
Not all information should be immediately presented to readers in a simplistic and easily digestible manner. As the narrative progresses, it may become evident that certain assumptions or theories that were previously introduced are indeed accurate. Therefore, it is my belief that the explanation blog should remain idempotent in light of these developments. It is important to allow readers to come to their own conclusions and to not detract from the overall experience and engagement with the story by providing all information upfront.
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should i go get Ant or you guys do the job
MaxLevel_King
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Your post doesn't debunks anything I made and my point has been overall accepted by staff again and yours not.
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@Dereck03 already requested the closure.
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Don't worry i already pressed the Thread detonation button. (let's blow this CRT up)
MaxLevel_King
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Your point was essentially "It is the Order of the Silver Sea that magic and Order flow from Shallow to Deep, therefore Worlds transcend each other". My post debunked that, as none of the examples given showed transcendence between a difference of 1 layer. You can of course disagree, but you actually need to debunk the counter-points made in my post in order to prove them wrong. Just saying "your post doesn't debunk anything" isn't proof.
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It reminds me of 1945
Don't worry i already pressed the Thread detonation button. (let's blow this CRT up)
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Not being offensive, but you used this exact sentence in previous thread and this thread constantly. Kinda funny to request the opposed party not to do it, while you are doing it.
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It's over Max give up you lose (though i honestly believe you won't care regardless as your mind will never change as your too stuck on downgrading this verse)
Ah what's the matter did anos destroy your favorite character. Well i don't give a shit about you.
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Hey bro...stop doing drugs
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too late dog, he's already permanently contaminated/affected by it no amount of treatment can save him
MaxLevel_King
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You are the exact type of person that's been disagreeing with me. "Ah what's the matter did anos destroy your favorite character. Well i don't give a shit about you". What classy behavior.
I already made it clear in my post that I don't care who can or can't beat Anos.
MaxLevel_King
He/Him- 356
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I did. And I gave my reasoning for it. Right now I'm asking Dereck to give his.
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Wait, so you excuse your own action while the opposed party is not allowed to? This became derailing, so I wish not discussing with this, but thinking that you are excused to do it but request others not to do it is actually insane.
Drop the topic.
Drop the topic.
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