Metroid V: To Infinity and Beyond

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, she actively did convert the energy yes, that's exactly what her Energy Transfer Module built into the Light Suit does. And she takes all of the energy; you cannot assume a chain reaction happened unless the obstacles in place necessary for one to happen.

 

[JJSliderman]

But how could she have converted all the mass to energy if she was still standing in a dimension, that clearly had mass, after absorbing the planetary energy.

Moreover, the transfer module is only designed to collect and redistribute energy, not do conversion.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

She also actively destroys the dimension with her own attack and absorbs it as she escapes.

Actually, it can do both. What it was used for was to fuse Light Aether and Dark Aether back into Aether as it was split to exist across two parallel dimensions due to the Leviathan that crashed into it and split the mass and energy. She was fixing up everything about it caused by the Leviathan.

 

[JJSliderman]

She didn’t destroy the dimension, she just absorbed the energy that was sustaining the dimension, causing it to collapse. The Energy Transfer module was only made to absorb the planetary energy, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to say anything else.

Does absorbing the planetary energy automatically mean you convert the planet’s mass to energy? That doesn’t make sense, considering the portion of Dark Aether you take the energy from still exists after taking the energy. Seriously, where is Samus doing any mass-energy conversion? I need details.

Unless it’s referring to Dark Aether being created from the energy that split off from Regular Aether at the end of the game, in which case wouldn’t the energy Samus absorbed just be half of Aether’s GBE in Joule value?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Planetary Energy refers to the entire mass energy period; she absorbed it to the point where Dark Aether was just strait up absorbed in its entirety and nothing left of it existed; otherwise the dimension would have never collapsed in the first place. It is also possible to interpret it as a Universal feat given that Dark Aether is also stabilizing what is referred to as a "Parallel dimension". Of course it's difficult to describe what it is parallel to; the universe or just Aether specifically and we assume the latter for lowballs sake. But either way, it literally mentions the mass to pure energy in the Energy Module's description.

It literally happens the exact same time she leaves Dark Aether, it's so hard to miss.

The half half split refers to it's energy, mass, atoms, molecules or even sub-atomic particles. Even if you don't want to assume just Mass-Energy conversion, she also absorbed the energy required to atomize it or better yet the energy required to cause a Sub-Atomic destruction in addition to Mass-Energy AND the GBE. So the Mass-Energy conversion is a lowball either way. Technically adding all of that together is the most accurate calculation.

Also, @SomebodyData is the one who knows the most details about what happens, but he seems to be inactive atm.

 

[JJSliderman]

“The Energy Transfer Module has a power core fueled by light energy. The presence of this energy protects the user from Ing possession.
Once you have siphoned all power from an Energy Controller on Dark Aether, you must return it to an Energy Controller on Aether.”

Nothing about mass energy conversion. Samus taking the energy and causing the planet to collapse does not mean she converted the planet’s mass to energy, it just means that without the planetary energy to sustain itself, Dark Aether was falling apart and being destroyed. It can be a stabilization feat rather than ME conversion.

Samus isn’t atomizing the planet or doing anything to it directly, she just takes the energy it needs to survive away from it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It may have been the original Japanese texts that specifically mention Mass-Energy Conversion. Also she can Mass-Energy convert her entire body to transfer herself around various parts in Prime 2 as early as the Dark Suit. Also, all versions of Samus mass-energy convert all her enemies and absorb them quite regularly or at least absorbs all life energy.

Also, she's absorbing all of the energy, period. If it was just the GBE, then it wouldn't be enough energy to stabilize Aether since it wouldn't restore the mass + atoms to the original form, so it would have to be the Mass-Energy, Atomic Fusion Energy, Sub-Atomic Fusion energy ect all added together.

 

[JJSliderman]

How is Samus getting pickups dropped from enemies a form of mass energy conversion? Is that also stated?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

In both Samus Returns, and Metroid Dread, instead of simply dropping items or energy restoration icons, they just reduce to energy and she absorbs said energy referred to as "Life Energy". Then again, I only said that was hypothetical at best and that it's more likely she just absorbs Metroid's version of Reiki/Ki that everyone in the universe has.

 

[JJSliderman]

Well, I’d have to see the scan showing the Energy Transfer Module features mass energy conversion, the atomic and sub-atomic fusion stuff I can buy to some extent (but they seem closer to Dwarf Star).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

SomebodyData will perhaps explain, but many others have actually brought up the "Atoms being split" among other things and scans come from different entries in the Luminoths Lore data files. That's literally the entire plot of Prime 2 is that the mass, atoms, sub-atomic particles, and energy were all split in half to exist across to parallel dimensions and is the reason why all residents have spatial intangibility because only half their mass and atoms exist in the real dimension with the other-half existing in the parallel dimension.

 

[JJSliderman]

I noticed my mistake with the atom stuff, yeah. I’m still just unsure on the mass energy conversion element.

Still, finding the value of the energy when accounting for atomic and sub-atomic energy does seem worth doing, I tried a very rough calc, and it got large star based on information from search engines for just the energy from protons and neutrons.

Although I couldn’t actually find where it said Aether’s damage happened on a sub-atomic scale, just atomic.

 

[JJSliderman]

Actually the mass energy conversion thing might make sense under the assumption that the Light of Aether sustains the existence of literally every individual atom, although having a direct confirmation would be nice.

Considering the gap between beginning and end of Prime 2 Dark Samus I could easily see her getting Multi-Solar System and even beyond at her final battle, applying the same multiplication to her at the end of Prime 3 along with the extra multiplication brought by absorbing more Phazon than she did in 2.

 

[Theglassman12]

direct confirmation

You mean the entire story of MP2 and what happens to Dark Aether? Because that’s as direct of a confirmation you’re going to get.

 

[JJSliderman]

I know what happens, with Dark Aether disappearing as soon as the energy is taken. But that doesn’t necessarily mean Samus converted the mass to energy in that specific instance.

 

[Theglassman12]

Since when was it not converted to energy when the Luminoth did literally just that with their technology that can convert the planet's energy into their own generators? If you're going to say they didn't convert it to energy you better have some scans beyond saying "it doesn't mean this"

 

[JJSliderman]

I don’t get what you’re saying, nothing about the Luminoth states they literally took their planet’s mass and converted it to energy. Nothing about the energy transfer module, as far as I’ve seen, says that either. Show a scan that outright says the Luminoth converted their planet’s mass to energy.

 

[Theglassman12]

You do realize the energy itself is what sustains the entire planet to begin with right? and the planet collapses into nothingness without it as shown with dark aether right? If the mass is completely gone by the time the energy is not there then occams razor points to the devices turning the entire planet into literal energy at that point. None of your arguments have any basis whatsoever as it goes against the entire point of MP2 and the ending.

 

[JJSliderman]

I know the energy sustains the planet, what I’m saying is there isn’t a moment in the game where, after Samus takes the Light of Aether from the controllers, the section of Dark Aether is immediately converted to energy alongside it and Samus is in an area with no mass. We don’t see Samus convert Dark Aether’s mass to energy directly, it all happens as a consequence of Samus absorbing an already existing energy source connected to the planet, and the destruction of all Dark Aether’s mass took 8 minutes after Samus absorbed the last energy controller, at which point Samus was fighting Dark Samus and not actively mass converting.

The planet was also destroyed immediately after Samus escaped Dark Aether, so the mass energy conversion could only have happened before Samus jumped through the portal the last time, which didn’t visually occur.

 

[Theglassman12]

Do you have anything new to bring to the table or are you just going to recycle the same argument of “we didn’t see it” or “we don’t know this” without any further evidence? Because at this point you’re grasping at straws here when we have so much statements from the luminoth and everything that happens in MP2’s ending going against your whataboutisms.

 

[JJSliderman]

Literally just show an instance of Samus directly taking the mass of Dark Aether and turning it to energy that she did.

Because all that happens in the ending is she absorbed the energy sustaining Dark Aether, causing it to destroy itself.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Gotta agree with JJ. There's nothing in the game that states that she's absorbing the planet's mass, unless that's said in the Japanese version.

 

[Theglassman12]

Why do you guys constantly ignore the Luminoth already doing that as if that doesn’t already addressed the energy conversion part? I seriously want to know why are you guys ignoring the entire origins of how the energy of the planets came to be.

 

[JJSliderman]

It just says the energy came from solar, geothermal, and bio sources, it doesn’t say the mass of the planet was literally converted to energy. Show proof of that, because so far the only confirmed thing is that the energy sustains the planet on an atomic level.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Why do you guys constantly ignore the Luminoth already doing that as if that doesn’t already addressed the energy conversion part? I seriously want to know why are you guys ignoring the entire origins of how the energy of the planets came to be.

I mean, it just says that it contains the various energies. There's no confirmation in the game that they straight-up converted it.

 

[Theglassman12]

@JJSliderman Where do you think bio sources come from in a planet? That's still part of the pass of the planet as wildlife and so many other things originate from the planet itself and evolve over time. It's almost like you refuse to acknowledge the games already gave you the answer and you want everything to be spoonfed to you.

@BrackishBrineBroth so how do you think they used the giant generators that has these energies to begin with if it's just solar/thermal/bio energy? You do realize for them to be remotely tied to the planet itself they'd need some conversion to begin with. So again, the game explains this enough with the visuals and context as opposed to the amount of stuff you two want to be spoonfed.

 

[JJSliderman]

Drawing energy from plants is still not the same as outright converting the plants into an energy based form.

And I think it is kind of necessary to be sure about this, because what we have so far is more just pointing to the Light of Aether sustaining the planet, rather than it being converted from the planet’s whole mass (considering the planet is not entirely an energy construct while the Light of Aether exists)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I really don't get the giant knit picks that have been happening, we already have so much Luminoth lore that mentions the splits of Light Aether and Dark Aether; they have half as much mass and atoms to the point where it's unstable unless they exist across the two parallel dimensions. It mentions half matter half atoms, half energy, ect. And the entire plot is Samus literally reversing everything period and restoring back to it just being a regular planet and thus causing the Dark Aether half and the parallel dimension to cease existence outright.

Also, think outside the box. If all Samus extracted was the GBE as opposed to full on Mass-Energy conversion, here would be the issues. I am still going to pretend Aether's mass and GBE are same as Earth's even if that's most likely a lowball.

1. Dark Aether would still exist; it would just be a bunch of floating space rubble, but all the mass would still exist if Samus didn't mass energy convert it all
2. The body of space would still exist as I doubt Low 5-B would be enough to destroy the space-time dimension
3. Aether would still be unstable which would mean she never finished her mission due to Light Aether still having half its mass, atomic fusion energy, Mass-Energy, ect still in Dark Aether's dimension
4. Having the remaining GBE back but not the mass would mean it Aether would have to take some weird irregular shape given a planet with half the mass, half the atoms, but same GBE would be shaped improperly compared to Earth. Same thing for any other planet suppose to have twice as much mass and other things but still the same GBE

But none of these above are the case as it clearly states Samus fully restores Aether to its former glory, meaning.

1. All the mass in Dark Aether would have to be gone outright and transferred back to Light Aether and thus Mass-Energy alongside it.
   • Also, Samus literally needs to mass-energy convert it or store objects as pure energy in order to carry it unless you want to upgrade her lifting strength to Class Z
2. The body of space no longer exists because Dark Aether no longer exists period. Samus literally destroys it.
3. Aether is not fully stabilized thanks to her and is now a full properly stable planet, all mass/matter atoms, energy/mass-energy was extracted from Dark Aether and returned to Light Aether becoming Aether again.
4. It is neatly shaped and smooth to further emphasize that all it's mass and all its atoms are back, not just its GBE. Mass-Energy conversion is literally the only method that works for this scenario at this point.

Also, she converts it basically the same instant she leaves it, otherwise she wouldn't have the energy in her to fix Aether and restore the mass/matter and atoms required to restore it outright. Also, Glassman has proven that Luminoths are consistently capable of demonstrating mass-energy conversion feats with Light Suit being a much more powerful thing capable of it. So Mass-Energy conversion is very within her power and that's what she did to restore Aether and give it each and every bit of its mass/matter/atoms/energy back.

 

[JJSliderman]

I guess my issue is I’m still not seeing exactly where Samus is converting any mass of the planet herself, she sticks her arm cannon in the energy source, absorbs it, and then transplants it somewhere else. If anything the Light of Aether itself is mass-converting the planet as a chain reaction to it leaving Dark Aether, something it wasn’t doing under its own volition.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That's the other issue, Aether is not a sentient planet. It can't mass-energy convert itself on it's own volition. It would have to be someone that reversed the effect caused by Phazon, and that someone doing it is Samus. And it's that one shot in Light Aether that transfers all the mass back.

 

[JJSliderman]

Er; what shot.

I don’t think Samus made any shots in Light Aether after exiting the portal in the ending.

And I’m not saying the planet mass converted itself, more that because it no longer had the energy, Dark Aether self-destructed.

Then the returned planetary energy in Light Aether recreated the missing atoms and environmental set dressing when it was returned to the great temple.

 

[JJSliderman]

Although, ig thinking about it, creating new atoms from an energy source is basically an inverse-mass energy conversion.

So, my bad.

 

[TheAccursedHunter01]

Rewatched the Death Battle Cast about Carnage vs SA-X and something came to mind that wasn't really touched on or discussed at all. Would the Klyntar from Marvel be immune to the X? What would happen if these two parasites interacted. Considering how ridiculous Marvel comics are and that he Klyntar come from Knull a literal God entity, I basically expect that Klyntar are immune or at least won't die to X infection. Of course the Cast went on just assuming that Klyntar are immune, although if Carnage could get infected and killed by X then the debate would last 5 seconds.

Also, one point Ben brought up is the idea that Carnage can control people by inserting part of himself into someone, could Carnage do the same thing via the organic parts of the SA-X's Power Suit?

Not bringing this up to discuss the match up, but there's a few things about what Carnage can do that I find potentially interesting. Also if you haven't see the cast episode you can watch it here:

 

[JJSliderman]

Random question but:

If a character fully statstomped Dark Samus and had the knowledge that they needed to blow up Phaaze to get rid of her completely, and had massive range long distance attacks, and knew to not physically touch Phazon, would they win?

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Random question but:

If a character fully statstomped Dark Samus and had the knowledge that they needed to blow up Phaaze to get rid of her completely, and had massive range long distance attacks, and knew to not physically touch Phazon, would they win?

Seems very likely, yeah.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Random question but:

If a character fully statstomped Dark Samus and had the knowledge that they needed to blow up Phaaze to get rid of her completely, and had massive range long distance attacks, and knew to not physically touch Phazon, would they win?

Probably but remember that Peak Dark Samus has bullshit range as well and can open portals across dimensions and the universe so she can get to you if she wants to as long as you're not trying to snipe her from a separate multiverse.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Random question but:

If a character fully statstomped Dark Samus and had the knowledge that they needed to blow up Phaaze to get rid of her completely, and had massive range long distance attacks, and knew to not physically touch Phazon, would they win?

I tried arguing that before but I believe some other experts made some counterarguments. Also, considering Phaaze is a sentient planet made of Phazon, I think that also implied it has a bunch of hax abilities Phazon grants including but not limited to having the same regeneration capabilities as Dark Samus and the like.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I tried arguing that before but I believe some other experts made some counterarguments. Also, considering Phaaze is a sentient planet made of Phazon, I think that also implied it has a bunch of hax abilities Phazon grants including but not limited to having the same regeneration capabilities as Dark Samus and the like.

Yeah, plus all the stuff I said a moment ago.

 

[JJSliderman]

So is the only reason Phaaze stayed blown up in the end because Dark Samus also blew up?

That seems kinda weird considering DS could survive the same kind of attacks in the last game.

Actually I realized that it was the AU blowing up which, maybe doesn’t have the same type of regen, so that makes sense, although does hurt the argument of the planet having regen.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, it's more or less implied Samus Aran using the 100% PED Suit mastered the ability to use its own power against it; Phazon can also be used to null regeneration as well as grant regeneration oddly enough; there was a giant ass blog post of not only having a giant list of powers but also the ability to negate all of those powers. Basically, the only in universe thing that can destroy Phazon is itself.