Mechikabura massive Downgrade

[Antoniofer]

I just support removing [Nigh-]Omnipresence, I'm indifferent to whatever dimensionality he is (that up to this date I do not really get).

 

[Everything12]

Antoniofer is listed twice, in before option number one and two.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

I agree with Kep just to be perfectly clear.

And if we do remove Omnipresence, his Higher-D existence is still perfectly and undeniably valid.

 

[Kepekley23]

If nothing else, keeping his Higher-D existence coupled with a note that his speed increases as he absorbs more timelines is the minimum I can agree with.

 

[Everything12]

I guess I'm also fine with Omnipresence removal and him keeping his Higher Dimensional Existence from the Time Black Hole at least.

 

[Ionliosite]

As I said before, I stand by Kep's side.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I also stand with Kep and I think Nigh Omnipresence is a better solution than full out Omni.

 

[Lavtop]

If nothing else, keeping his Higher-D existence coupled with a note that his speed increases as he absorbs more timelines is the minimum I can agree with.

I can Agree with this, if that means close this thread. the omnipresence/nigh-omnipresence is straight no for me, As for the other staff members, higher dimensional existence is debatable, and I can agree with that.

If you agree definitely with what you said, then I think it's concluded since all the staff member agreed with the removal of the omnipresence/nigh-omnipresence.

So the speed will be something like: MFTL+, higher as long as he Continue absorbing time (?)

 

[Dragopentling]

I'm fine with this decision as well.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I agree with Kep. Given he has not finished absorbing the whole multiverse, but would in short order, I agree Nigh-Omni, and "would eventually become Omni" is probably the best for a conservative rating. But completly removing both nigh-Omnipresent and Omnipresent is a no since he clearly exists across a ton of timelines that are inside of him and still exist as timelines, so he should minimum get nigh Omni. And higher dimesnional existance is pretty obvious, as he is literally a living multiverse.

 

[Eficiente]

So, maybe we should make this a staff-only thread? I find possible that there might be more people disagreeing with this that isn't motivated to say anything as of now, and this is obviously something serious.

Just some proposal.

 

[Lavtop]

I called a lot of staff members and they all agreed with the Downgrade. So the result would be obvious.

Kep seemed to accept the compromise of removing the omnipresence/nigh omnipresence and leave the higher dimensional existence with a speed rating like this one: MFTL+, higher as long as he Continue absorbing time

If he confirms, I agree too. Since is reasonable.

Other wise feel free to make a staff-only thread.

 

[Dragomer]

I called a lot of staff members and they all agreed with the Downgrade. So the result would be obvious.
Kep seemed to accept the compromise of removing the omnipresence/nigh omnipresence and leave the higher dimensional existence with a speed rating like this one: MFTL+, higher as long as he Continue absorbing time

If he confirms, I agree too. Since is reasonable.

Other wise feel free to make a staff-only thread.

They didn't all agree, Kep changed the mind of multiple staff members too.

 

[Lavtop]

They did all agree. I suggest you to read the thread. All the staff members are in the option they choose check the thread.

Eficiente said he agree with all the removal; Antoniofer said he disagree with the omnipresence and he is neutral with the higher existence; Matthew agree with all the removal; Cal agree With all the removal; Ogbunali said he agree with Efience; Gyro said he disagree with the omnipresence and agree with higher existence;

Elizhaa said she is neutral for now, I asked her to vote and she answered that

Kep was the only one, and now he said what I said in my last message

 

[SSJRyu1]

Staff only thread shouldn't be necissary, its not like the thread is way off topic, and there is important input from non staff members to. Lets face it, the ones who are knoledgable about Heroes the most honestly arent even staff members in most cases.

Not to mention if staff aren't motivated to speak unless nobody else can speak in the thread but staff members, then that is a bad way to go about doing things anyway since your essentially just trying to ignore the input from a large portion of the wiki who aren't staff.

Several staff already agreed that Nigh-Omni and "would become Omni" seems the most reasonable, several people for the downgrade also have said they would be fine with that, and most people against the downgrade seem to agree that would also be a reasonable analysis.

Nigh Omni is reasonable given the context, but not giving him either would be downplay honestly since he is clearly not just a 3D being, he has a multiverse as part of himself and is literally a living multiverse where those timelines had to be sealed off from the rest of the multiverse to be stopped.

Also Kep said that he personally would have him as Omnipresent or Nigh Omnipresent, he only said that he needs to keep higher D status minimum, not that he agrees with removing Omni or nigh Omni.

 

[Lavtop]

No one of the staff agreed with nigh-Omnipresence can you please at least read the thread? Or I have to quote every single vote of them saying they disagree with the omnipresence/nigh omnipresence?

I also put on the thread the votes of every one, no one is ignoring nothing.

 

[Dragomer]

They did all agree. I suggest you to read the thread.
All the staff members are in the option they choose check the thread.

Eficiente said he agree with all the removal; Antoniofer said he disagree with the omnipresence and he is neutral with the higher existence; Matthew agree with all the removal; Cal agree With all the removal; Ogbunali said he agree with Efience; Gyro said he disagree with the omnipresence and agree with higher existence;

Elizhaa said she is neutral for now, I asked her to vote and she answered that

Kep was the only one, and now he said what I said in my last message

No, they didn't all agree, trying to pretend that just so you can push for your downgrade when everyone else agreed on night omnipresence is ridiculous, Multiple staff members outright said Kep changed their mind, how about YOU read the thread ?

Both normal users and the staff clearly ended up agreeing on making it 'Night Omnipresent, would become omnipresent', even Kep's minimum to reach an agreement boil down to that anyway, you're the only one who just said 'it's a straight no to me' and then tried to act like anyone agreed with that.

And i want to point out that AGAIN, every single point brough against Mechikabura apply to almost every single omnipresent and nigh-omnipresent characters we have so if Mechikabura get neither, all those characters should be downgraded too.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

I also agree with third option

 

[Lavtop]

Then tell me the name of the staff members that agreed with the omnipresence beside kep, because probably I'm blind. I literally wrote to you every staff members name with their motivations, at the moment you are literally ignoring what they wrote. And keep saying "they disagree!!" When they all wrote the opposite.

@Eficiente

Since people are even trying To ignore the fact you staff disagree with the omnipresence,

Make a staff-only thread so, the question will be resolved quickly, and I don't have to bear this thread anymore.

I also will never make a Dragonball thread in my life anymore.

 

[Elizhaa]

Ok, from I read, I completely disagreed with Omnipresence. I think arguments from both sides look to be strong regarding Higher-Dimensional Existence so I am neutral on it.

 

[Lavtop]

Thanks Elizhaa, I will add your name too.

 

[Omegas03]

Yeah, tbh the bias is a bit strong on this one.

I have yet to see Zenkai and Kep's points refuted.

 

[Dragomer]

So basicaly 'make the thread so only those who agree with my side have a say' ? that's some sad attempt at getting the last word.

 

[Akreious]

Pretty much as others said above, has the relevant arguments actually been disputed yet? IIRC the only response was basically just reiterating the original problem and not even addressing the argument set fourth.

"X is the problem" "Y is our arguments" "Yeah but X is a problem"

Is essentially what happened. Y wasn't addressed.

 

[Lavtop]

The vote list is updated, and is correct, you can easily check it by the last messages of everyone, since According to someone, there are some mysterious staff memebers that agreed but I can't see them.

beside jokes, I have to go, I think sufficient people and staff member voted the thread and can be judged.

Kepekley23 I agree with your proposal, I think you can agree too with that rating: MFTL+, higher as long as he Continues absorbing time since you proposed that.

And removing obviously the omnipresence and leave on the profile higher dimensional existence.

Then there will be a full consensus from the staff members. Since you are actually the only one defending this position together with regulars member that supported mechikabura.

Otherwise do staff-only thread or whatever, or close this one, I don't even care anymore.

 

[Dragomer]

It's funny you're jumping on Kep's proposal because you seem to have missed that it wouldn't just keep adding speed on top of MFTL, it would make him go nigh-omnipresent and then omnipresent anyway.

 

[Dragopentling]

Adding MFTL is a bit too extra, tbh. Putting Nigh Omnipresent and then Omnipresent seems just fine at this point.

 

[Everything12]

Question is how far would the Nigh-Omnipresence cover? Though if the Nigh-Omnipresence is meant to extend out of his Pocket Dimension then I still disagree.

 

[KLOL506]

I don't think it extends out of his pocket dimension based on what I've read so far.

 

[Antvasima]

Can some staff member summarise the arguments here please?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm fine with higher dimensional existence, and eventually omnipresent I can...settle with, but I'm not fine with nigh-omnipresent at any time. He's still never shown to manifest himself inside his dimension, and it would be like again, giving Kirby omnipresent with his stomach dimension, or say Lavos will eventually be omnipresent because he'll eat all of time, and therefore the time that he eats becomes part of him, making him one with everything. Either he's physical (albeit higher dimensional) because he's not omnipresent as he's physically fought with no avatars, or he eventually absorbs everything, and apparently that by default makes him omnipresent despite the fact that any fight he'd have would be outside the pocket dimension containing 1e99 universes as he still can't manifest himself inside it.

 

[Dragomer]

Nothing ever said he can't manifest himself tho, Demigra just pulled them out from inside him, it's not like they were trying anything after being absorbed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't have to prove a negative. You'd have to prove that he can manifest himself or even alter his pocket dimension.

Besides, if Mechi wanted them dead, and he does, if he could screw with the pocket dimension, he'd kill them no problem, given he'd reasonably be god in there.

 

[Dragomer]

I don't have to prove a negative. You'd have to prove that he can manifest himself or even alter his pocket dimension.
Besides, if Mechi wanted them dead, and he does, if he could screw with the pocket dimension, he'd kill them no problem, given he'd reasonably be god in there.

There is a difference between stating that he can't and saying we didn't him doing it, cause once again, we accept a lot of stuff the characters have never actualy done on this wiki.

Mechikabura always said he considered them insignificant, what he wanted was to absorb everything, including the others demon gods and we know that he got stronger when he absorbed the demon gods so why would he kill them when he can use them as power ups like the demon gods ?

Also they were already in a realm he totaly controled and even created when they went to the demon realm, if they could resist it then, there is no reason it would suddenly work there.

 

[Antvasima]

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Two wrongs don't make a right, man. In the same way a lot of this is "If other verses get away with this, so can I", and trust me, I get it, I've seen other verses get the "we don't care, if it's wrong then it's wrong" treatment.

Honestly, Mechi's goal never made sense to me. He absorbs everything, making him the only thing in the multiverse. What does he have to gain? But I digress.

I don't remember the reasoning, but the whole "one with the Demon Realm" thing got debunked.

Also I wanted to apologize to you specifically (as well as Akr) for the rant a couple days ago. I wasn't myself.

 

[Dragopentling]

Come to think of it, Mechi flexing on them probably means there's no immediate need to visually show that he's clearly nigh-omnipresent or omnipresent. Why do so when they're literally can't do anything to you in even a physical form?

 

[Dragomer]

Two wrongs don't make a right, man. In the same way a lot of this is "If other verses get away with this, so can I", and trust me, I get it, I've seen other verses get the "we don't care, if it's wrong then it's wrong" treatment.
Honestly, Mechi's goal never made sense to me. He absorbs everything, making him the only thing in the multiverse. What does he have to gain? But I digress.

I don't remember the reasoning, but the whole "one with the Demon Realm" thing got debunked.

Also I wanted to apologize to you specifically (as well as Akr) for the rant a couple days ago. I wasn't myself.

Yeah, two wrongs don't make a right but that's why i try to push for decisions to be made for on wether we downgrade everyone who received that treatment or we apply that treatment for everyone like with the timeless void thing being changed for everyone instead of just applying it randomly.

His goal changed like 5 time to be honest, IIRC at first it was like Towa, getting revenge for Dabura, then it was free the demon realm, then it was revenge for not being chosen as the time Kaioshin and now he just want to eat everything for some reason.

Nah, i don't mean he was one with it, i mean it's a realm he created to begin with, with the help of the others demon gods like Demigra or alone, i don't remember which one.

No issue, i lose my calm too sometimes XD

 

[Dragopentling]

Two wrongs don't make a right, man. In the same way a lot of this is "If other verses get away with this, so can I", and trust me, I get it, I've seen other verses get the "we don't care, if it's wrong then it's wrong" treatment.

Honestly, Mechi's goal never made sense to me. He absorbs everything, making him the only thing in the multiverse. What does he have to gain? But I digress.

I don't remember the reasoning, but the whole "one with the Demon Realm" thing got debunked.

Also I wanted to apologize to you specifically (as well as Akr) for the rant a couple days ago. I wasn't myself.

Tbf, it's Dragon Ball we're talking about. It's kinda expected that debates involving such popular franchises are gonna get heated. I'm at fault, too, for having gotten caught up in it, admittingly.

Also, can you redirect me to the thread where the Demon Realm thing was discussed?

 

[Dominodalek]

His goal changed like 5 time to be honest, IIRC at first it was like Towa, getting revenge for Dabura, then it was free the demon realm, then it was revenge for not being chosen as the time Kaioshin and now he just want to eat everything for some reason.

His goal never really changed (avenging Dabura and freeing the Demon Realm were all Towa, and she accomplished them long before she freed Mechikabura), he just didn't start working towards it until his youth was restored.

Unless it was something the manga added, Mechikabura himself never talks about his past, so it's probably more likely that becoming Supreme Kai of Time was just his first attempt at gaining the Time Power Unleashed form so that he could achieve his endgoal.