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Maxwell vs Shadow (GRACE)

Dashio_Tessai said:
That should mean he kills Shadow then, I think.
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Oh no they don't die you remove the "stone" adjective and they are back alive. I guess it just...stops them from doing anything...transmutation isn't fully death.
Dashio_Tessai said:
That's another win con, then.
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Yeah I think happy also makes them stop fighting but not sure...I believe maxwell can also just
Transmutate again! with Magic: Creates a ball of magic that transmutes characters into bunnies and frogs, and objects into bouquets.

Transmutate again! with these Fairy Godmother Wand or the Necronomicon: has an effect which is transmutation.

Powernull with this! Normal: Negates powers and abilities

Sleep manip with this! Sleepy: cause Sleep Manipulation.
 
Hmmm how does he see that Shadow has fate hax? I assume through Information Analysis but how could Shadow having fate hax be summed up in just one adjective? Does he have to manually check for Shadow powers or...? And is it even in character for him?
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Hmmm how does he see that Shadow has fate hax? I assume through Information Analysis but how could Shadow having fate hax be summed up in just one adjective?
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"Normal" also yes maxwell can just look at someone and see all of their adjectives and obvioulsy information about them
Dashio_Tessai said:
Does he have to manually check for Shadow powers or...? And is it even in character for him?
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He doesn't really have a character its player based. But pretty sure maxwell just uses things that end the fight quickly "Gone" "Dead" "Friendly" "Normal" "Stoned" other stuff
 
ShionAH said:
"Normal" also yes maxwell can just look at someone and see all of their adjectives and obvioulsy information about them

He doesn't really have a character its player based. But pretty sure maxwell just uses things that end the fight quickly "Gone" "Dead" "Friendly" "Normal" "Stoned" other stuff
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Sooo we are back to square one then. Maxwell has many ways to deal with Shadow's fate hax. He also has some no-no moves that would result in his defeat. The fight outcome is dependant on what adjective Maxwell starts with, which due to him being a player-driven character can be any adjective out there. I have a feeling the good adjectives outnumber the bad adjectives that he can start with though. If we are to say that the victory is determined by one singular fight scenario, this should be an incon as what Maxwell adjective starts with is all up to one's interpretation and we don't know truly what he would start with exactly. If we are to go by say, a best of 10, Maxwell would definitely score more won rounds than Shadow, so Maxwell should be the overall winner.
 
ShionAH said:
His fate hax will be stopped with the hax. Shadow will stop wanting to defeat maxwell
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This implies that the fate hax isn't passive and hasn't already taken effect by the moment of the battle starting due to SBA
So this becomes an incon at best for maxwell
 
deonment said:
This implies that the fate hax isn't passive and hasn't already taken effect by the moment of the battle starting due to SBA
So this becomes an incon at best for maxwell
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Fate hax isn't a instant win. Sonic who has arguably the best fate hax on wiki lost to Rimuru. If Max uses his hax shadow will lose his fate hax since he will no longer want to win or it will be nulled
 
ShionAH said:
Fate hax isn't a instant win. Sonic who has arguably the best fate hax on wiki lost to Rimuru.
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Because Sonic's fate hax is wholly defensive and only stops permanent methods of incap and death, but Shadow's fate hax is different, it is both offensive and defensive and stops the things which would stop his goal of beating/killing maxwell
 
deonment said:
Because Sonic's fate hax is wholly defensive and only stops permanent methods of incap and death, but Shadow's fate hax is different, it is both offensive and defensive and stops the things which would stop his goal of beating/killing maxwell
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It cannot stop maxwells hax unless he has shown capacity to stop conceptual based hax. Thats NLF
 
ShionAH said:
It cannot stop maxwells hax unless he has shown capacity to stop conceptual scaled hax. Thats NLF
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It doesn't have to stop the hax, it just has to stop maxwell, which is what it will do, it will cause maxwell to suffer PIS or CIS making him not choose the hax that lets him win but instead will make him incon with shadow at best
 
deonment said:
Because Sonic's fate hax is wholly defensive and only stops permanent methods of incap and death, but Shadow's fate hax is different, it is both offensive and defensive and stops the things which would stop his goal of beating/killing maxwell
Click to expand...
Some characters in his verse even traveled back in time hundreds of times and made significant changes in the past which would've stopped Shadow's plans from advancing further, but every time they returned to the present they were hit with the reality that nothing significant changed and that changing things in the past doesn't change the present in any significant way. Fate spans across all of space and time and so it is predetermined to be accomplished once it is put in motion.
 
deonment said:
It doesn't have to stop the hax, it just has to stop maxwell, which is what it will do, it will cause maxwell to suffer PIS or CIS making him not choose the hax that lets him win but instead will make him incon with shadow at best
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Maxwell just has to write a word and its not that hard you MAY argue shadows fate hax will make maxwell choose the bad hax but that just makes it a incon at best. Its either incon most of the time or maxwell winning if fate hax doesnt effect the opponents mind. Has it shown to do that?
 
ShionAH said:
Maxwell just has to write a word and its not that hard you MAY argue shadows fate hax will make maxwell choose the bad hax but that just makes it a incon at best. Its either incon most of the time or maxwell winning if fate hax doesnt effect the opponents mind. Has it shown to do that?
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Yes it has been shown to affect people's mind
 
ShionAH said:
Maxwell just has to write a word and its not that hard you MAY argue shadows fate hax will make maxwell choose the bad hax but that just makes it a incon at best. Its either incon most of the time or maxwell winning if fate hax doesnt effect the opponents mind. Has it shown to do that?
Click to expand...
Yeah it has. In the Itu's Plane story arc Shadow wishes to destroy the world. Two characters named Nanami and Kitsune-1 are having an argument at the Accelerator tower about the world being miserable and whether it deserves to die or not. Shadow Mind is the key to the destruction of the world (since it can activate the Accelerator and thus nuke the planet), and is listening closely at the argument these two characters are having. Nanami brings up an argument in favor of the world dying, to which Kitsune-1 cannot come up with any counter-argument that would support the world deserving to live. Shadow Mind is convinced by Nanami's words seeing as she technically won the argument, and immediately agrees with her and decides to destroy the world on the spot, so it activates the Accelerator and nukes the planet. Shadow somewhat survives the destruction of the world since his spirit gets captured and imprisoned somewhere in a different dimension, and he is visited by May and told by her that she doesn't want to see the world getting destroyed just for her to be brought back to life, and that all she wants is for him to not hate his child and wish for the world to keep on living. Shadow does just that, he stops wanting to destroy the world and instead wants it to live. Descendant also somehow survives the destruction of the world and manages to go back in time to when Nanami and Kitsune-1 were having the argument. Because Shadow now wanted the world to live, Kitsune-1 suddenly came up with a counter-argument this time and she won the argument over Nanami, convincing Shadow Mind that the world deserves to live. And so the world ends up not getting destroyed anymore.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Yeah it has. In the Itu's Plane story arc Shadow wishes to destroy the world. Two characters named Nanami and Kitsune-1 are having an argument at the Accelerator tower about the world being miserable and whether it deserves to die or not. Shadow Mind is the key to the destruction of the world (since it can activate the Accelerator and thus nuke the planet), and is listening closely at the argument these two characters are having. Nanami brings up an argument in favor of the world dying, to which Kitsune-1 cannot come up with any counter-argument that would support the world deserving to live. Shadow Mind is convinced by Nanami's words seeing as she technically won the argument, and immediately agrees with her and decides to destroy the world on the spot, so it activates the Accelerator and nukes the planet. Shadow somewhat survives the destruction of the world since his spirit gets captured and imprisoned somewhere in a different dimension, and he is visited by May and told by her that she doesn't want to see the world getting destroyed just for her to be brought back to life, and that all she wants is for him to not hate his child and wish for the world to keep on living. Shadow does just that, he stops wanting to destroy the world and instead wants it to live. Descendant also somehow survives the destruction of the world and manages to go back in time to when Nanami and Kitsune-1 were having the argument. Because Shadow now wanted the world to live, Kitsune-1 suddenly came up with a counter-argument this time and she won the argument over Nanami, convincing Shadow Mind that the world deserves to live. And so the world ends up not getting destroyed anymore.
Click to expand...
And in the Main Plane (Chapters I - VII) story arc Shadow needed the prototype of the Accelerator in order to be able to build it. This prototype was owned by the Heralds faction, and they knew what he was planning to do with the prototype and so they refused to give it to him. Shadow ended up waging a brutal war and massacring the Heralds to get his hands on the prototype by force. In hopes of stopping the bloodshed, a Herald named Itu personally handed over the prototype to Shadow. Shadow didn't keep his word and still continued his war, and thus killed nearly all the Heralds. Itu regretted that he handed over the prototype for basically nothing, and so he asks Descendant to go back in time and prevent him from handing over the prototype to Shadow, to rid him of his guilt but also for the chance that if he never handed over the prototype, the Heralds would've prevented Shadow from getting to it. Descendant went back in time, stopped Itu, and returned to a present in which Shadow still got the prototype, and finds out that after a stranger (themselves) defeated Itu, another Herald called Kibo snatched the prototype and handed it over to Shadow instead. So Descendant goes back in time again, to defeat Kibo this time. Descendant stops Kibo, and returns to a present in which after Kibo was defeated a different Herald called Iolanda took the prototype and handed it over to Shadow instead. And once again after going back in time to defeat Iolanda, they return to a present in which a different Herald named Bolo handed over the prototype to Shadow instead after snatching it from Iolanda after she was defeated by a stranger (Descendant).
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
And in the Main Plane (Chapters I - VII) story arc Shadow needed the prototype of the Accelerator in order to be able to build it. This prototype was owned by the Heralds faction, and they knew what he was planning to do with the prototype and so they refused to give it to him. Shadow ended up waging a brutal war and massacring the Heralds to get his hands on the prototype by force. In hopes of stopping the bloodshed, a Herald named Itu personally handed over the prototype to Shadow. Shadow didn't keep his word and still continued his war, and thus killed nearly all the Heralds. Itu regretted that he handed over the prototype for basically nothing, and so he asks Descendant to go back in time and prevent him from handing over the prototype to Shadow, to rid him of his guilt but also for the chance that if he never handed over the prototype, the Heralds would've prevented Shadow from getting to it. Descendant went back in time, stopped Itu, and returned to a present in which Shadow still got the prototype, and finds out that after a stranger (themselves) defeated Itu, another Herald called Kibo snatched the prototype and handed it over to Shadow instead. So Descendant goes back in time again, to defeat Kibo this time. Descendant stops Kibo, and returns to a present in which after Kibo was defeated a different Herald called Iolanda took the prototype and handed it over to Shadow instead. And once again after going back in time to defeat Iolanda, they return to a present in which a different Herald named Bolo handed over the prototype to Shadow instead after snatching it from Iolanda after she was defeated by a stranger (Descendant).
Click to expand...
To see this in action personally, these three missions are what I'm referring to. (Just check the Gallery section for the dialogues)
 
This match would be better with a weaker shadow key without fate haz and a weaker maxwell key in close distanxe
 
And if we are to go by attack potency / scaling, his SF2 key would be the weakest as recent story updates describe him as only growing stronger with time. Still at least SF2 has some extra abilities via his old equipment.
 
Changing it to incon.
Dashio_Tessai said:
And if we are to go by attack potency / scaling, his SF2 key would be the weakest as recent story updates describe him as only growing stronger with time. Still at least SF2 has some extra abilities via his old equipment.
Click to expand...
are you voting incon?
 
8-C vs 2-A potencies btw. And stuff like Shadow's corruption and disease and whatever is bound to his Shadow Abilitites, which need to actually deal some meaningful damage to their target to apply such effects. If anything maybe Shadow Mind can slip a shadow beast inside of Maxwell and then turn him into that while Maxwell is focused on Shadow. Although to turn him into the beast would require Shadow Mind to first be able to Mind Control him. Maxwell has some sort of Resistance to Mind Manipulation, but how potent is it? Shadow Mind can mind control armies simultaneously and is implied to be able to control even more people than that.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
8-C vs 2-A potencies btw. And stuff like Shadow's corruption and disease and whatever is bound to his Shadow Abilitites, which need to actually deal some meaningful damage to their target to apply such effects. If anything maybe Shadow Mind can slip a shadow beast inside of Maxwell and then turn him into that while Maxwell is focused on Shadow. Although to turn him into the beast would require Shadow Mind to first be able to Mind Control him. Maxwell has some sort of Resistance to Mind Manipulation, but how potent is it? Shadow Mind can mind control armies simultaneously and is implied to be able to control even more people than that.
Click to expand...
Tin foil hat counters so it is either shadow uses mind hax before or it gets nulled with the tin foil hat, assuming maxwell doesnt kill or destroy the multiverse with a punch before
 
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