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Maxwell vs Shadow (GRACE)

Robo432343

Robo432343

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Shadow (Shadow Fight)

Shadow is the eponymous protagonist of Shadow Fight 2 and a major character of Shadow Fight 3. He was a powerful and arrogant warrior who foolishly opened the Gates of Shadows in his pursuit of a worthy battle, thus unleashing the Shadow Energy into the world, its emission being so great that it...
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VS

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Maxwell (Scribblenauts)

Maxwell was born into a family of 44, with 41 brothers, one sister, and their parents. Being the son of Edgar and Julie, each of the 42 siblings were given magical gifts from their parent's previous travels. Maxwell's was a magical notebook, and Lily's was a globe that brought her anywhere in...
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Shadow is Low 2-C and Maxwell is frikin 2-A

SBA
Speed =

Max:
Shadow:
goku solos both: 7+
 
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What does shadow start with? What can he do against maxwell just...punching the ground and nuking the place?
 
Shadow's fate hax works by him just wanting to achieve something, and that wish will eventually get fufilled no matter what. Say, if he wants to deafeat Maxwell (which is something that he should want to do by default if we are to go by SBA), then he simply will alter the fate of the world so that this wish gets fufilled. All he has to do is start fighting Maxwell (or do anything else that would result in defeating Maxwell), and sooner or later he will defeat him. It is unknown how long it takes for this wish to get fufilled, but other users from the SF verse of this same ability have had cases where they achieved their goals (which mind you were on paper supposed to be very hard to achieve) so easily that they didn't even know how they did it. Although this fate hax is instant the moment Shadow gets killed. So if he still wanted to defeat Maxwell the moment Maxwell killed him fate would instantly grant Shadow's wish, so Maxwell would also get defeated.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Shadow's fate hax works by him just wanting to achieve something, and that wish will eventually get fufilled no matter what. Say, if he wants to deafeat Maxwell (which is something that he should want to do by default if we are to go by SBA), then he simply will alter the fate of the world so that this wish gets fufilled. All he has to do is start fighting Maxwell (or do anything else that would result in defeating Maxwell), and sooner or later he will defeat him. It is unknown how long it takes for this wish to get fufilled, but other users from the SF verse of this same ability have had cases where they achieved their goals (which mind you were on paper supposed to be very hard to achieve) so easily that they didn't even know how they did it. Although this fate hax is instant the moment Shadow gets killed. So if he still wanted to defeat Maxwell the moment Maxwell killed him fate would instantly grant Shadow's wish, so Maxwell would also get defeated.
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Would it still work if maxwell effects shadows concept as a whole? Max also has emphathic manipulation to make shadow change his own fate
 
ShionAH said:
Would it still work if maxwell effects shadows concept as a whole? Max also has emphathic manipulation to make shadow change his own fate
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Yes there's the obvious loop hole to the fate hax that if somebody manages to change Shadow's thoughts and wishes it completely negates his ability to kill the enemy via fate manip. Characters in his verse even tricked him with illusions for many years into not wanting to destroy the world, so for a long time the world remained alive up until he broke out of the illusion and wished to destroy the world, killing it as a result. He's pretty good on resistances to Mind, Empathic hax and other similar abilities though, so I don't think Maxwell's empathic manipulation would work on him.

How does his concept manipulation even work? Like what adjectives could he even put on Shadow to negate / sedate his fate hax before killing him? Maxwell I assume wouldn't know of Shadow's fate hax so he wouldn't try to find a way around it by putting adjectives on Shadow that would negate his fate hax / change his state of mind.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
How does his concept manipulation even work? Like what adjectives could he even put on Shadow to negate / sedate his fate hax before killing him? Maxwell I assume wouldn't know of Shadow's fate hax so he wouldn't try to find a way around it by putting adjectives on Shadow that would negate his fate hax / change his state of mind.
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He can make him “Friendly” “Dumb” “Crazy” and pretty sure you need concept manipulation resistance to resist maxwells hax. Since he doesnt actually have haxes all of them come from his concept manipulation. Maxwell IC will try stuff that makes him win instantly and mind hax/emphathic hax are pretty high on the list
 
ShionAH said:
He can make him “Friendly” “Dumb” “Crazy” and pretty sure you need concept manipulation resistance to resist maxwells hax. Since he doesnt actually have haxes all of them come from his concept manipulation. Maxwell IC will try stuff that makes him win instantly and mind hax/emphathic hax are pretty high on the list
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Hmmm well this would give Maxwell a win con then. Shadow doesn't have concept-based resistances, and if this is his Main Plane key neither would Shadow Mind. But then again, if there's the chance / scenario that Maxwell doesn't start with mind/emapthic hax and with something else that doesn't change Shadow's state of mind but instantly kills him then fate hax should do the trick.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Hmmm well this would give Maxwell a win con then. Shadow doesn't have concept-based resistances, and if this is his Main Plane key neither would Shadow Mind. But then again, if there's the chance / scenario that Maxwell doesn't start with mind/emapthic hax and with something else that doesn't change Shadow's state of mind but instantly kills him then fate hax should do the trick.
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Would fate hax instantly kill maxwell? How will it work if max just writes “gone” and EEs shadows ass?
 
Also, Main Plane Shadow is an awkward fusion with Shadow Mind, where Shadow is possessed by Shadow Mind, but Shadow Mind starts to imitate Shadow's personality and character, only in a more evil way. Shadow Mind's body is also all the Shadow Energy in the world. In the story it never gets the opportunity to fully gather the scattered Shadow Energy from the world in one focal point. But I assume by SBA these characters get transported from their worlds to an outer arena, so Shadow Mind should be carried over with all the scattered Shadow Energy from its world, but this time with its Shadow Energy gathered in one point, which gives it some passive haxes such as Law Manipulation which can induce Death Hax and others. Again, this is only if Shadow Mind were to be transported with all the Shadow Energy from the world as well (because it is stated to be its body, as Shadow Mind is Shadow Energy's mind).
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Also, Main Plane Shadow is an awkward fusion with Shadow Mind, where Shadow is possessed by Shadow Mind, but Shadow Mind starts to imitate Shadow's personality and character, only in a more evil way. Shadow Mind's body is also all the Shadow Energy in the world. In the story it never gets the opportunity to fully gather the scattered Shadow Energy from the world in one focal point. But I assume by SBA these characters get transported from their worlds to an outer arena, so Shadow Mind should be carried over with all the scattered Shadow Energy from its world, but this time with its Shadow Energy gathered in one point, which gives it some passive haxes such as Law Manipulation which can induce Death Hax and others. Again, this is only if Shadow Mind were to be transported with all the Shadow Energy from the world as well (because it is stated to be its body, as Shadow Mind is Shadow Energy's mind).
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Hmm Idk man wouldnt that be a 2v1? Anyways so Maxwells wincons are: Mind hax or Emphathic hax, maybe EE? BFR too I belirve (but not IC so who cares)
 
ShionAH said:
Would fate hax instantly kill maxwell? How will it work if max just writes “gone” and EEs shadows ass?
Click to expand...
Yes fate makes it so that his final wish / goal is instantly fufilled. Even if Shadow dies or gets erased (meaning he technically wouldn't even be able to think anymore) right after his death his wish is granted and becomes a reality. I can't exactly say how Maxwell would be defeated, since fate manipulation is up to interpretation how it would be carried out. For example in the main story Shadow wanted to destroy the world. He gets killed in combat by Descendant but right after that Moira becomes enraged by his death, takes control of Shadow Mind and throws it into the Acceletor, activating it and thus causing it to obliterate the world. Shadow Mind survives the death of the world and decides it will turn back time for it and Descendant to face Shadow again but differently this time so as to not enrage Moira and cause her to throw it into the Accelerator. To this Stranger tells Shadow Mind that no matter how many times it would try to defeat Shadow in a different way it would still ultimately result in the death of the world right after Shadow's death. This also explains why Bolo never dared to travel to the past and kill Shadow in his sleep or something, because in doing that sure Shadow would be dead, but Bolo would return to a present where Shadow's wish would already be fufilled, and so he would arrive somewhere in an empty space.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Yes fate makes it so that his final wish / goal is instantly fufilled. Even if Shadow dies or gets erased (meaning he technically wouldn't even be able to think anymore) right after his death his wish is granted and becomes a reality. I can't exactly say how Maxwell would be defeated, since fate manipulation is up to interpretation how it would be carried out. For example in the main story Shadow wanted to destroy the world. He gets killed in combat by Descendant but right after that Moira becomes enraged by his death, takes control of Shadow Mind and throws it into the Acceletor, activating it and thus causing it to obliterate the world. Shadow Mind survives the death of the world and decides it will turn back time for it and Descendant to face Shadow again but differently this time so as to not enrage Moira and cause her to throw it into the Accelerator. To this Stranger tells Shadow Mind that no matter how many times it would try to defeat Shadow in a different way it would still ultimately result in the death of the world right after Shadow's death. This also explains why Bolo never dared to travel to the past and kill Shadow in his sleep or something, because in doing that sure Shadow would be dead, but Bolo would return to a present where Shadow's wish would already be fufilled, and so he would arrive somewhere in an empty space.
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Wouldnt it be NLF to assume his fate hax can kill a 2-A character?
 
What about “Paralyzed” adjective? What about “Stone” adjective? What about “Scared” adjective?
 
ShionAH said:
Hmm Idk man wouldnt that be a 2v1? Anyways so Maxwells wincons are: Mind hax or Emphathic hax, maybe EE? BFR too I belirve (but not IC so who cares)
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Yes it would be a 2v1, but Shadow's profile is pretty wack (my fault) right now and forgets to state it at least somewhere.
 
ShionAH said:
Wouldnt it be NLF to assume his fate hax can kill a 2-A character?
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Hmmm do we compare a Character to a feat in this case? Cause' sure I don't see Shadow's fate hax allowing him to instantly nuke / rewrite 2-A worth of universes, but should this prevent him from fate haxing the instant death of a character who can destroy / rewrite on a 2-A level?
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Hmmm do we compare a Character to a feat in this case? Cause' sure I don't see Shadow's fate hax allowing him to instantly nuke / rewrite 2-A worth of universes, but should this prevent him from fate haxing the instant death of a character who can destroy / rewrite on a 2-A level?
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I have no idea tbh. It should work for all the other haxes but not sure about fate hax mostly because I dont see shadow causing anything that can kill maxwell.
 
ShionAH said:
What about “Paralyzed” adjective? What about “Stone” adjective? What about “Scared” adjective?
Click to expand...
What exact meaning of "paralyzed" are we talking about? Since it could mean "cause (a person or part of the body) to become partly or wholly incapable of movement" or "make (someone) unable to think or act normally, especially through panic or fear", in which case the first meaning would still allow Shadow to want to defeat Maxwell, but the second one would probably deter Shadow from still wanting to defeat Maxwell. Or does Maxwell apply both of these meanings simultaneously with this adjective?

Stone as in literally turning Shadow into a stone? Wouldn't that count as death? Stones are not alive and they most likely do not have minds. Or does Maxwell turn Shadow into a talking or conscious rock? He would still be alive then as he would be able to think. I don't know if he would still want to defeat Maxwell as a rock though.

Scared should be pretty good. It makes Shadow afraid of Maxwell. But it depends how scared would Shadow become of Maxwell (or everything else really). A random soldier may be scared of war, but he fights to win his next battle anyways. I think "terrified" is a better word for truly deterring Shadow from wanting to fight Maxwell (but still, maybe he would still want to get rid of Maxwell?).
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
What exact meaning of "paralyzed" are we talking about? Since it could mean "cause (a person or part of the body) to become partly or wholly incapable of movement" or "make (someone) unable to think or act normally, especially through panic or fear", in which case the first meaning would still allow Shadow to want to defeat Maxwell, but the second one would probably deter Shadow from still wanting to defeat Maxwell. Or does Maxwell apply both of these meanings simultaneously with this adjective?
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I think its unknown I assume it just makes someone immobile and just making them stay there not moving in game the characters just stay there but I believe they still have thoughts.
Dashio_Tessai said:
Stone as in literally turning Shadow into a stone? Wouldn't that count as death? Stones are not alive and they most likely do not have minds. Or does Maxwell turn Shadow into a talking or conscious rock? He would still be alive then as he would be able to think. I don't know if he would still want to defeat Maxwell as a rock though.
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I mean Idk it just makes them stoned immobile etc. Like medusa if that makes sense I think this also stops making them think but I am a bit rusty not sure...I might download game to see myself lol
Dashio_Tessai said:
Scared should be pretty good. It makes Shadow afraid of Maxwell. But it depends how scared would Shadow become of Maxwell (or everything else really). A random soldier may be scared of war, but he fights to win his next battle anyways. I think "terrified" is a better word for truly deterring Shadow from wanting to fight Maxwell (but still, maybe he would still want to get rid of Maxwell?).
Click to expand...
Scared makes them scream in fear and run from maxwell so it is pretty powerful. I think wouldn't shadow now want to escape maxwell? Maybe fate hax will make it so maxwell wont be able to follow him ignoring the fact that IC max will just let shadow run
 
ShionAH said:
I have no idea tbh. It should work for all the other haxes but not sure about fate hax mostly because I dont see shadow causing anything that can kill maxwell.
Click to expand...
Hmmm it's true, yeah. Though I always imagined it as Maxwell just suddenly dropping dead for no apparent reason other than "fate deemed he is to die now", something like a Death / Life hax based on fate.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Hmmm it's true, yeah. Though I always imagined it as Maxwell just suddenly dropping dead for no apparent reason other than "fate deemed he is to die now", something like a Death / Life hax based on fate.
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I think that makes it a solid wincon but I believe maxwell takes this in the bag. He just has so many ways to incap what do you think?
 
ShionAH said:
Scared makes them scream in fear and run from maxwell so it is pretty powerful. I think wouldn't shadow now want to escape maxwell? Maybe fate hax will make it so maxwell wont be able to follow him ignoring the fact that IC max will just let shadow run
Click to expand...
True if Shadow's wish is suddenly to run away or escape from Maxwell then Maxwell will never be able to stop Shadow from escaping him. Which sounds comical now that I imagine it.
 
ShionAH said:
I think that makes it a solid wincon but I believe maxwell takes this in the bag. He just has so many ways to incap what do you think?
Click to expand...
I think Shadow has his win cons but in every scenario he is at Maxwell's fingertips / mercy. Shadow's win con exists or not based on Maxwell starting with either the good hax or the bad hax.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
Hmmm it's true, yeah. Though I always imagined it as Maxwell just suddenly dropping dead for no apparent reason other than "fate deemed he is to die now", something like a Death / Life hax based on fate.
Click to expand...
And this doesn't sound like NLF to me since there are good examples of characters out there who can resist this form / technique of Fate hax, in which case good for them having it.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
I think Shadow has his win cons but in every scenario he is at Maxwell's fingertips / mercy. Shadow's win con exists or not based on Maxwell starting with either the good hax or the bad hax.
Click to expand...
Yeap. So who do you vote? I myself vote maxwell since it seems like its either Maxwell uses a bad hax and loses or he incaps and wins
Dashio_Tessai said:
And this doesn't sound like NLF to me since there are good examples of characters out there who can resist this form / technique of Fate hax, in which case good for them having it.
Click to expand...
That isn't a NLF. I was more of talking about if fate hax had to cause something to happen for shadow to win. If it can insta death then yes it is a solid wincon, though can shadow come back from EE or death hax after Max picks the wrong adjective?
 
ShionAH said:
Yeap. So who do you vote? I myself vote maxwell since it seems like its either Maxwell uses a bad hax and loses or he incaps and wins

That isn't a NLF. I was more of talking about if fate hax had to cause something to happen for shadow to win. If it can insta death then yes it is a solid wincon, though can shadow come back from EE or death hax after Max picks the wrong adjective?
Click to expand...
Hmmm well at best for Shadow I see this as an inconclusive matchup and at worst a win for Maxwell. It is hard to judge. I may go for Maxwell, just because Shadow Mind's page is outdated and Shadow's page is, again, wack and needs more work on, so I don't want us to dive into that whole passive Death hax based on Law Manip just to have it be some wank further down the line. Also, Shadow cannot return from EE or Death hax.

And looking further into Historical Importance Index (fate hax) feats in Shadow Fight, there is one case in which one day a rogue soldier was planning an attempt on one of his former superiors' life. This soldier is stopped from achieving his goal by another character who intercepted him just in time and neutralized him through combat. Right after that fight thoguh the rogue soldier's target was poisoned by someone else. He was defeated, but his wish was granted either ways. In our case this does confirm that Maxwell wouldn't just suddenly die by fate, but there would be the need of some other element in the world to carry out this wish, which is hard to come up with when they may not even be anyone surrounding him and Shadow during their fight. Honestly at his tier I can only see Maxwell somehow dying by his own hand since nothing else in Shadow's kit allows him to harm Maxwell. I haven't checked on Shadow in some time too and so I'm rusty as in what he can do outside of fate hax to harm Maxwell.
 
What difference would an equal LS even do anyways. Shadow's win con is fate hax, and there's even the possibility that his fate hax is instant without the need of him dying since unlike every opponent in his verse which has built-in fate hax Maxwell lacks this mechanism. Again, Stranger who studied this fate hax mechanism his entire life even describes it simply in this example. "And if your importance index is high", Shadow's imaportance index is not just high, but the biggest in the world at specific points in the story. He would defeat Maxwell so effortlessly and quickly he would not even be able to remember how he did it.
 
Dashio_Tessai said:
What difference would an equal LS even do anyways. Shadow's win con is fate hax, and there's even the possibility that his fate hax is instant without the need of him dying since unlike every opponent in his verse which has built-in fate hax Maxwell lacks this mechanism. Again, Stranger who studied this fate hax mechanism his entire life even describes it simply in this example. "And if your importance index is high", Shadow's imaportance index is not just high, but the biggest in the world at specific points in the story. He would defeat Maxwell so effortlessly and quickly he would not even be able to remember how he did it.
Click to expand...
I was just saying how funny the LS difference is, Maxwell kills shadow its an incon but if Maxwell incaps before he can win. You said it yourself thats how shadow was once defeated with incapping
 
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