Massive TLOZ Verse Upgrades

[TriforcePower1]

If we close the thread, then no one could come here to comment, even if they have something constructive to say. Similarly, someone that may oppose it would find it easier to just ignore the thread and letting it die rather than arguing the points.

I agree that we should wait to apply the revisions, but we shouldn't close the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

I disagree with this due to Warren's points.

Can you respond to the points of Warren's claims we debunked?

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Specifically this counter

Address only this point:Majora's influence is his power in the quote

-The Moon,Majora used his powers's to bring the moon down to Termina that causes dread and doom this is Majora's omnipresence throughout Termina/his influence

-The Heavens(Giant's Realm) was altered and changed by Majora which caused dread another affect of Majora's influence which he caused using his powers

-Time and Space,for the millionth time which you have not adressed at all why would we assume that time and space is inaccurate when everything else is.Time and Space being affected is being affected by Majora's powers because the quote says so.All it takes is a little bit of reading comprehension,saying a quote is vague and flowery because it doesn't make sense to you is not a valid argument.As right now your argument has no base and is falling apart

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

I'm just saying that the only one writing a counter was Warren and we addressed his reasonings.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Considering I didn't see any actual debunking, not really no.

That conversation only turned into a circular reasoning issue that never ended but his points weren't really addressed so far as to claim he was "debunked", so I still think there's relevance there.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Did you read my counter above? Triforce and JJmil were arguing against Warren's points can you also provide a reason as to why they aren't debunking any thing.

 

[Antvasima]

Azathoth usually takes care of LoZ revisions, but he has been missing for a while.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Because at this point it seems like a conflict of opinions rather than a decisive conclusive opinion to either side, meaning there's no factual best interpretation with the available information.

But I felt the same with Ganon's "laugh", I feel the same with Skull Kid's "influence" even before reading any of Warren's points, and I still hold the same idea after seeing the counters.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

To clarify

Warren suggests that the quote is metaphorical and flowery and is refering to Majora's presence not his power,which is simply not true.

"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse and it's all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence of his cursed guise has on the moon,The Heavens and Time and space"

Warren is suggesting that the quote is refering to Majora's presence throughout Termina which is highly contradictory to the quote.When the quote refers to mischief it's refering to the mischief that Skull kid preforms with his powers.The quote then continues to tell us about the "influence" Skull Kid preforms is making is making everyone miserable which he does so with his powers.Majora's presence without his powers would just be a mask(albeit a freaky one) but still a mask.If we look at the end of the quote which explains what mischief Majora is causing with his powers refers to the Moon(Majora used his powers to bring the moon down to Termina)The Heavens(The Giants Realm that Majora affected with his powers ask Triforce for more clarification on thatsubject)and considering that the last two things Majora preformed are accurate what's not to say his powers affected and influenced time and space which would be a 4-A feat due to the many stars in the sky explained by the OP.Majora's presence is causing everyone in Termina dread but he causes that dread with his powers which is what the quote is refering to the moon,Heavens,Time and Space.Majora's control over these things and his distorted warping if these things are what's causing the dread and terror in Termina and it's up to Link to stop Majora's influence and warping of the Moon,Giant's Realm and Time and Space. '

There's no misinterpretation of the quote when breaking down what the quote is refering to and what he has done to the Moon,Heavens(Giant's Realm)and now likely Time and Space due to everything pointing to Majora using his powers to alter them.Like Triforce said this is over complicating things when this is just basic reading comprehensio

 

[Jjmil3827]

This makes the most sense tbh. Warren's reasonings are greatly based on assumptions and this debunks them. Support for these reasons.

 

[Neon_Battle_Bind]

Support due to Oblivion's reasonings

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Yes Oblivion, once more, I very clearly read all I could about warren's points and your own, along with what Triforce said. My opinion remains the same.

 

[Neon_Battle_Bind]

Yes Oblivion, once more, I very clearly read all I could about warren's points and your own, along with what Triforce said. My opinion remains the same.

Why? you need to provide a reason as to why you disagree with him so you can actually debate the topic.Saying you agree with Warren isn't enough if you want your counter to be strong.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Not really? Warren already said pretty much anything I would wanna say, the same arguments were repeated again and again because I don't really think there's much to be said differently. This still seems like a matter of opinion and interpretation to me, just as the "Ganon's laughter representing his wish" issue. This just has actual fundamentation, but not enough.

You are entirely free to just invalidate my opinion if you really think his points were entirely debunked, but you are gonna be incredibly dishonest if you decide to tell me somehow that factually Skull Kid's influence over Space and Time makes sense because he caused the misery all around with his powers, and if he caused it by his powers the influence should be referring to what he affected with his powers. As Warren nicely put it:

"You are making an Associations Fallacy .

Just because Majora causes misery with his powers, doesn't mean the quote which is talking about the misery that Majora has caused throughout Termina is referring to his powers."

If you think the proof on your side is conclusive enough, go ahead, I just disagree entirely and still think this is entirely interpretative and very far away from being clear.

And even more so, all this could warrant if accepted to me is a "possibly". Characters like Orsola from To Aru have way more clear and direct statements like "has the power to control all of the seas and the greenery of the Earth", her powers are even connected to controlling just that, but she never actually shows it so it only merits "Likely far higher". Skull Kid is in no way ever shown affecting space and time, and in no way shown affecting the literal stars, 'the heavens', as even Triforce cleared out the heaven's should mean The Chamber of the Giants. So merely a quote that is not actually conclusive. Once again, not enough in my book.

 

[Antvasima]

Affecting time and space in itself is unquantifiable. We do not rate the scale of a character's power from his or her versatility.

I think that we should close this. Sorry.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@Ant Oblivion's proposal is that affecting space and time would refer to the entirety of it in Termina's, which should warrant at least a 4-A due to the many stars you can see in the sky.

At least I think that's what he's going for.

 

[Antvasima]

If this is not explicitly stated, it seems unreliable.

 

[TriforcePower1]

The upgrade is actually more centered about Majora "Creating" Termina by warping the world. That statement was more of something meant to support Majora creating said world.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So, transferring the creation of Termina to mean the Creation of it's entire Space-Time by correlation of that and his supposed affecting of "Space and Time"?

 

[Neon_Battle_Bind]

In the OP the quote that Majora can affect Time and Soace suppourts the fact that Majora created the Universe which would be at least a 4-A pocket realm again the quote is just in support for the fact that Majora created a Universe/Termina since Termina is cited as a parallel Universe.And affecting/warping time and space in a pocket realm with several stars is a feat just saying.

 

[Antvasima]

This either seems like an outlier or as something unreliable to scale from, but Azathoth would be much better suited for evaluating this.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I wouldn't say outlier, but I definitely don't agree with the context and information used to reach the conclusion.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

I did the scaling and everything and no outleir is presented.I just wanna talk it with Lancelot about why he disagrees.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I made my case why just above, plus agreeing with Warren's points.

I will likely not respond even if you reply back, because we'll just end up in another circular reasoning debate. I would personally prefer waiting for Azathot to have some free time, as I am sure he understands the franchise better than me.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

I need to change the OP,Im sorry everyone I have to address Majora creating Termina deeper.

Should I make a new thread with the new altercations and we can just close this so we can have a fresh start or should we just keep with this thread?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If you want you make Ant close it and reopen it after you've had time to reformulate the OP with any new relevant information/new arguments.

But I would recommend waiting for Azathoth to be less busy so he can have a look at it when it's ready.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, you should place a request on Azathoth's message wall. Nothing is going to happen unless he evaluates this, as we have had extensive preceeding discussions about this topic. Starting a new thread wouldn't be of any use, just waste our time.

Unfortunately, Azathoth has been missing for a while.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Yeah this can be closed and I found something that goes against the debunking of Majora creating Termina so I'll post this later on and clarify further I'll message Azzy this when he hopefully comes back.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Then close this please Ant, best to wait for Azzy to be available again.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright.