Massive Persona Almost-Verse-Wide Revisions

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

> using Philemon and Nyarlathotep's representations as if they were feats that somehow prove superiority. That's not how this works.

And another thing, Sera herself said this is true. So Philemon and Nyarl being the totality of the CU, and not the Sea of Souls (That's a different thing, which btw its core is the Xibalba thing), can be considered a feat.

Also Philemon can draw power from the Sea of Souls... If I remember correctly. He said something about "Even without the core of Xibalba or the Sea of Souls, your souls are enough to change reality itself". Not 1 to 1 but its similar to that.

BUT! I highly suggest we wait for Sera's blog. For now, the Low 2-C revisions on P3-P4 are first since that's the topic of this thread, as well as those abilities listed in the OP.

 

[Ranzuki]

@Ranzuki It's ironic how you call out assumptions in regards to Nyx when you immediately follow-up with saying that the featless Igor is stronger than Elizabeth.

While I do admit that I misunderstood the statement about the Administrators that I quoted earlier on, leading to my gravely incorrect statement regarding Erebus, there's still no denying the fact that you're using Philemon and Nyarlathotep's representations as if they were feats that somehow prove superiority. That's not how this works. Their greatest feat so far, as far as I know, has been the universal reset, and Yaldabaoth was on the verge of doing just that before the PTs stopped him - without the use of Xibalba or the powers of Persona-users' memories.

Nyx is also not the top-dog because of causing the creation of the Collective Unconscious. Not trying to sound angry, but how many times do I have to say that Nyx had no control over the creation of the Collective Unconscious? Not even taking into consideration that Nyx was dormant while it was being made, and that we have no timeframe whatsoever.

As for Elizabeth stomping Erebus in P4A, we already know that that Erebus was notably weaker than the one fought in The Answer, and that Elizabeth had gotten notably stronger between P3 and P4A with how easily she trounced the rest of the playable cast.

The Velvet Room attendants have set of rules and hierarchy, they directly serve Igor and has to obey him, at very least he has authority over them. Not just them being made by him. It's completely different from you using absurd powerscaling to scale Erebus and Nyx to Nyarlatothep and Yaldabaoth. Nyx having no control to the creation of Collective Unconscious makes it even less impressive and should not be scaled to anyone or whatsoever, it was created by humans as a chain reaction. Do not try to compare it Igor and the Velvet Room attendants that has clear established hierarchy. There is at least some context behind it. Why do you think Caroline and Justine have to obey Margaret? Why do you think Elizabeth and Margaret obeys Igor? Why do you think Igor obeys Philemon?
Also ShinyMagicalGirl already answered your question regarding Philemon, Nyarlathotep and Yaldabaoth. So no, Yaldabaoth does not have better feats.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

We've got maybe 60 odd messages until this thread closes. I suppose we should wrap most of anything that's left up.

 

[Solacis]

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to Ranzuki calling Nyarlathotep the representation of all mankind's negative emotions, and thus considering Yaldabaoth inferior by virtue of "a desire for control" being a negative emotion.

 

[Ranzuki]

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to Ranzuki calling Nyarlathotep the representation of all mankind's negative emotions, and thus considering Yaldabaoth inferior by virtue of "a desire for control" being a negative emotion.

I merely used the same logic you used to try and scale Erebus to Yaldabaoth because of the whole "Administrator" thing. See what I did there?

 

[Solacis]

I merely used the same logic you used to try and scale Erebus to Yaldabaoth because of the whole "Administrator" thing. See what I did there?

Which I also pointed out as wrong in hindsight. The irony is in you trying to reason your own point using the same flawed logic you literally just called out.

 

[Solacis]

Regardless, with this thread soon reaching the max reply cut-off, I'm just going to make a new thread to continue this discussion on.

 

[Solacis]

Continuation thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3227644

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Yo yo let's chill! Can we PLEASE wait for Sera's blog?

For now we should wrap up what the OP wanted; the ability additions and tiering of P3-P4 characters. P1 and P2 upgrades can wait for Sera's blog.

 

[Ranzuki]

Which I also pointed out as wrong in hindsight. The irony is in you trying to reason your own point using the same flawed logic you literally just called out.

I'm perfectly aware it's flawed reasoning but sometimes you have to use the same flawed reasoning for the person who uses the flawed reasoning to understand. Also I do not intend to offend you btw. I just see no reason why you tried to dump all of them in the same level of power just because they are "Administrators". That being said, Yaldabaoth's feats is not more impressive than Philemon and Nyarlathotep if you read what ShinyMagicalGirl said. They are more or less equal in terms of feats but if people are unreasonably willing to put the Velvet Room attendants as above Yaldabaoth, then Philemon and Nyarlathotep would be scaled above Yaldabaoth.