Massive Charizard speed upgrade (potentially)

[AidenBrooks999]

1) It could be a metaphore, I mean, how you even "run on air"


2) You can add "Likely higher" if you want. Stills not support-relevant for MHS+ upgrades

 

[LordXcano]

Thing is, this is the same verse where several Pokemon overpower (and even outspeed) the Lati@s duo, running on air contradicts Dodrio being 60mph, and ozone dragon, mega cat clone, and perfect cell have better stats than god (the last one of those being game mechanics). Charizard being that fast isn't that farfetch'd. Yes. Horrible pun intended.

Literally every single one of these things is either anime only or game mechanics, including Dodrio. The Pokedex, in every entry that mentions speed, states it can run 40 MPH. The only time it runs on air is because of assumptions on how it flies and/or poor animations (see: Diglett using Aerial Ace).

Using the logic being used here (and apparently the roaming legendaries calcs) I could also scale bicycles (and walking speed) to Hypersonic speeds easily. There's a mountain in either Gen 4 or 5 based upon a real-world mountain that is just 2 tiles tall, allowing you to scale it nigh-instantly.

 

[AguilaR101]

Are all pokemon profiles supposed to be composite?

Because AFAIK most of them take feats from three different sources that are in no way canonical to eachother.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

They were. We changed it without coming to a concrete decision. Pokemon profiles on the Pokemon page itself is stated to take them at their full potential. Let's take the Pokemon we're discussion right now. Having an 8-A form when he also has a 7-C form isn't taking it at its utmost potential. It's taking the showings from each media and tabbing them.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with Xcano. But Aiden, the Pokemon profiles are composited.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Yes, I know

i said that was incorrect to add feats from Ash Charizard without adding a key, albeit his stats are pretty much cover up in Ash profile

 

[SomebodyData]

I feel like we also have to discuss about composite profiles, but that's another thread entirely for now, we should probably get back to the main topic.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump again. Seriously. Why does this keep on dying? It hasn't been resolved and it's relatively important.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Pretty sure this was rejected.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think a good amount of us agreed to this. There's a lot of evidence pointing towards MHS Charizard.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah. Even Azzy was for this iirc. I recall the rejection being the minority.

 

[FTW395]

Isn't this whole upgrade based on a vague statement? Don't see why it'd get accepted.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I think a good amount of us agreed to this. There's a lot of evidence pointing towards MHS Charizard.

Really?

What?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We've at least 6 or 7 people here agreeing with this. Including a Bureaucrat.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Isn't this whole upgrade based on a vague statement? Don't see why it'd get accepted.

Actually no. It's based off the fact charizard actually crosses islands to pick you up and drop you off. He's the only pokeride to not just teleport there. He actually flies to your location. Considering where you get him, he likely flies from Akala Island. Meaning he flies to get you from a whole nother island to pick you up.

 

[FTW395]

We've at least 6 or 7 people here agreeing with this. Including a Bureaucrat.

Just because the majority thinks it's right, doesn't mean it's actually right.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We've at least 6 or 7 people here agreeing with this. Including a Bureaucrat.

Just because the majority thinks it's right, doesn't mean it's actually right.

Just because a good amount of people thinks its wrong doesn't mean it's actually wrong. We've provided evidence that supports our points and even a Bureaucrat whose known for having good judgment on this type of stuff agrees to it. As well as our head of Pokemon files.

 

[Cropfist]

The opposition's also provided evidence.

 

[FTW395]

Just because a good amount of people thinks its wrong doesn't mean it's actually wrong. We've provided evidence that supports our points and even a Bureaucrat whose known for having good judgment on this type of stuff agrees to it. As well as our head of Pokemon files.

Yet we've also provided evidence that didn't get debunked. In all honesty this upgrade seems to be solely based on an incredibly vague statement that could be interpreted as basic propaganda. Something along the lines of "Tired of having to wait 3-4 hours in a plane to get to your destination? Go with our new improved plane! It gets you everywhere in an instant." Instant would obviously be hyperbole and I think the same applies to this feat.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We are not using "instant" as an argument anymore. We have posted other things that support MHS charizard....

You guys' arguments are this:

"Instant" is hyperbole and Vague.

It is. A such we are not using that quote. Also this is really the only major argument you have supported.

What makes this different from other pokemon that use fly?

The fact that out of Decidueye, Toucannon, Braviary, Mandibuzz, Drifblim, Salamence, Dragonite, Metagross, Skarmory, Pelipper, and all the other REGIONAL pokemon that can fly. They chose Charizard. A pokemon not even in their REGIONAL dex. The fact that there is an Alolan rule for this makes Charizard crossing the region at high speeds as canon as Roaming legendaries crossing a region in seconds. Unless you want to call that game mechanics too.

Running on air is not viable.

Not even relevant to Charizard.

Nothing else to support it.

Charizard in the anime is arguable more powerful than Ash's Pikachu and can likely react to Pikachu's. Which would put "At least MHS reaction/Combat speed."

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Ok then


Any supporting argument is wrong


Since Game doesn't scale from Anime.


If the only support is Anime,no, Ash stuff (Which upgrades stills "Outliers"), then this is not happening

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That isn't the only support. Also if this is true why does pikachu still have his MHS stats on his file?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Because that's Ash Pikachu, maybe?


Also, what other thing support this?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because that's Ash Pikachu, maybe?

Also, what other thing support this?

Based on what I've heard that is just the Pikachu species file.

I'll shamelessly copy and paste this.

The fact that out of Decidueye, Toucannon, Braviary, Mandibuzz, Drifblim, Salamence, Dragonite, Metagross, Skarmory, Pelipper, and all the other REGIONAL pokemon that can fly. They chose Charizard. A pokemon not even in their REGIONAL dex. The fact that there is an Alolan rule for this makes Charizard crossing the region at high speeds as canon as Roaming legendaries crossing a region in seconds. Unless you want to call that game mechanics too.

Plus while this isn't 100% accurate neither is the support that it doesn't work. People constantly say it's cinematic timing. However, the fact that the time of day does not change, Charizard does not appear out of thin air. And in game minus the "instantaneous" line. Charizard is seen as high speed travel through island. Heck Olivia even makes a statement about Charizard flying from the Ruins of Life to Halo grand resort in " No time"

If we get someone to calculate the time of the trip from Lush Jungle to Memorial Hill we will get a solid speed.

 

[Antoniofer]

Flying to anywhere in an instant sound like an very vague statement, and considering that the times that I watched charizard flying doesn't seems close to MHS+, I wouldn't accept this; most likely is around supersonic speeds, from the human point of view.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Flying to anywhere in an instant sound like an very vague statement, and considering that the times that I watched charizard flying doesn't seems close to MHS+, I wouldn't accept this; most likely is around supersonic speeds, from the human point of view.

We've discussed that instantaneous is Hyperbole. Now we are going with other things. Plus Charizard is already High Hypersonic so the Supersonic thing makes no since.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, escaping gravity is already an HHS speed feat, if he got that clever feat why looking for another in a vague statement?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Welp, escaping gravity is already an HHS speed feat, if he got that clever feat why looking for another in a vague statement?

To possibly upgrade a character. Plus this came after that. So we found this feat out when Sun and Moon came out.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

High Hypersonic is not for game.


Really, any evidence to support this from the same media?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

High Hypersonic is not for game.

Really, any evidence to support this from the same media?

We never said it was Aiden....I posted a response to the second question twice....

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Well, then thats it.


The statement is really vague.

Maybe like Antoniofer said, Supersonic maybe Hypersonic maybe be ok for game

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We'll wait for Cal's input here.

And why do people keep bringing up the statement when we are discussing something different now? This is no longer about the statement, but about Charizard being to only pokemon used for air travel around Alola and doing so at high speeds.

 

[Antoniofer]

Just read the charizard entries, there's no statements about his speed, only thing that could be similar is flying at 1400 m high, that would makes it At least Mach 0.48; but maybe supersonic could work too if humanshas problem with see it.

 

[Cropfist]

No one's countered Xcano's arguments either.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

If could be trained to fly tho.

Or again, game mechanics.

Probably Charizard is the common. Or maybe because he is popular?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Charizard is nowhere near common. Heck the guy isn't even in the regional dex. Popular? Being popular means nothing here. Either way people seem to put too much focus on that one statement so how about we just make a separate thread for this since it honestly off topic. And no one seems to be listening to me. Heck we got people confused on the composite files. We'll discuss that somewhere else.