Massive Charizard speed upgrade (potentially)

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Notice how Charizard is not in the Alolan Dex.

 

[SomebodyData]

Hmmm, it seems that in this case then they cannot scale.

 

[FTW395]

^This is different because unlike other regions. This is for Charizard only.

How does this make Charizard's flying different?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Hm? How so? The trainers, I mean. And Dragonite. Unless you're talking about the Tapus, in which I understand and agree.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^This is different because unlike other regions. This is for Charizard only.

How does this make Charizard's flying different?

The fact this is canonically a pokemon who flies around the 4 islands at high speeds.

 

[FTW395]

The fact this is canonically a pokemon who flies around the 4 islands at high speeds.

Yeah but the problem is, you're basing the speed on a statement that's most likely hyperbole. Charizard not taking real time to fly from one side of the island to the other is game mechanics and him being able to do it instantly is hyperbole.

 

[Foggysniper]

So from what I understand,Charizard is summoned instantly and he flies you from Island to Island in anywhere from 1-4 seconds.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@FTW

This is a specifically Alolan thing, as directly stated by the NPC who gives you the Fly TM. She specifically states that its use is prohibited in Alola due to everyone using the Ride Pager and Charizards for flight.

Again, I am not saying this is conclusively 100% accurate, but instead saying that canon evidence beats down a lot of the cinematic timing issues we would face in other cases.

It would also not have the problem of inconsistency, with things such as Pheromosa being stated to dodge lightning, and Tapu Koko, who even enters its fight scene with said UB via a lightning strike to the ground.

 

[FTW395]

@FTW
This is a specifically Alolan thing, as directly stated by the NPC who gives you the Fly TM. She specifically states that its use is prohibited in Alola due to everyone using the Ride Pager and Charizards for flight.

Again, I am not saying this is conclusively 100% accurate, but instead saying that canon evidence beats down a lot of the cinematic timing issues we would face in other cases.

It would also not have the problem of inconsistency, with things such as Pheromosa being stated to dodge lightning, and Tapu Koko, who even enters its fight scene with said UB via a lightning strike to the ground.

Okay, but how is regular flying being prohibited in Alola relevant to this Charizard upgrade?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^I've explained it before. This means that this is canonically a CHARIZARD only feat. Meaning this is something that can scale to only Charizard. Plus it isn't just flavor text. Charizard is brought up in plot multiple times as a way of exremely fast transportation.

 

[Cropfist]

How do Pokemon far above Charizard having MHS feats debunk inconsistency?

 

[Blahblah9755]

I'd assume cause lightning speed is variable and even the one that focuses on strength over speed is doing it casually.

 

[FTW395]

^I've explained it before. This means that this is canonically a CHARIZARD only feat. Meaning this is something that can scale to only Charizard. Plus it isn't just flavor text. Charizard is brought up in plot multiple times as a way of exremely fast transportation.

But isn't Charizard brought up only through that call device instead of actually flying himself?

 

[Blahblah9755]

I believe what he's getting isn't that charizard's called up through the device, but that he canonically is used, and said to be used, to allow humans to travel these long distances very quickly.

 

[FTW395]

I believe what he's getting isn't that charizard's called up through the device, but that he canonically is used, and said to be used, to allow humans to travel these long distances very quickly.

The thing is I believe him doing these long distances is pure game mechanics because no gamer would want to wait a real time of 2-3 hours to fly from one city to the other.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Okay, but how is regular flying being prohibited in Alola relevant to this Charizard upgrade?

It's not. The thing that's relevant is that use of Fly is prohibited because of Charizard.

 

[SomebodyData]

Essentially, from what I understand, Charizard's flight speed is so fast that he became a threat to others?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Essentially, from what I understand, Charizard's flight speed is so fast that he became a threat to others?

Possibly. The implication seems to be that using Fly would be dangerous due to the possibility of a Charizard crashing into you, which is not considered a problem in regions where everyone can use Fly.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Alola is an archipelago right? A group of islands? It would make sense that they have more flight there than in other regions composed of a massive landmass and some much smaller ones since travel by road is not entirely readily available.

Hence, the point of having some sort of Charizard airport for flying needs, and that means that they can't fly with their own, lest they get caught in the Charizard traffic.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Gemmy

It is a possibility, but then we run into the problem of the fact that Charizard is supposed to simply materialize nearby via use of Ride Pager. If it had to fly from a specific location to get to any trainer, that would result in even higher speeds.

 

[Gemmysaur]

So, Charizard materializes nearby via Ride Pager, but it doesn't change the fact that they still need to fly around after being summoned so a Charizard traffic is still there. What disappears is the "airport" thing I said, which is because I don't know how they are called since I'm not really following S&M.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Charizard actually seems like the only one who doesn't appear out of nowhere, as he's the only one with a cutscene shown being summoned via holding up an item to gain his attention.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Charizard actually seems like the only one who doesn't appear out of nowhere, as he's the only one with a cutscene shown being summoned via holding up an item to gain his attention.

Yeah. However we know it likely comes from Akala Island's Wela Volcano.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So, did we make a decision yet or no?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Doesn't look like it to me.

 

[Ryukama]

I'm sorry but the statement "in an instant" sounds very vague and hyperbolic. Probably hard to decipher an accurate or exact timeframe from.

However if there are other canon things besides that statement that support him flying at such a fast pace, then I am fine with the upgrade.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ryu

Wait, are we talking about some kind of "in an instant" quote for Charizard or the Ride Pager itself? Because I am only aware of and have argued for the Ride Pager's quote, as the Pokemon are supposed to be summoned/materialize as opposed to travelling to your destination.

Charizard is the only one who visible travels, and the exact distance it travels from (or if it was summoned nearby) is unclear.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Azzy Charizard likely comes from Akala Island seeing as that is where you obtain his Pokeride.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I still seeing this as really vague

 

[AidenBrooks999]

However if there are other canon things besides that statement that support him flying at such a fast pace, then I am fine with the upgrade.

Not really, well, while Pokemon profiles are "composite", this would upgrade Game Charizard, and the only thing that COULD support this is... Wait, why Charizard is MHS? The profile is NOT for Ash's Charizard, so there's no reason for him to be on that level

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Not really, well, while Pokemon profiles are "composite", this would upgrade Game Charizard, and the only thing that COULD support this is... Wait, why Charizard is MHS? The profile is NOT for Ash's Charizard, so there's no reason for him to be on that level

I thought Charizard was HHS?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

He has upgrade upgraded to MHS via scaling from Pikachu, but that Pikachu calc is for Ash's one, and even if Charizard profile is composite, is not Ash's Charizard, so it should be MHS to start with

 

[Kytygys15]

He has upgrade upgraded to MHS via scaling from Pikachu, but that Pikachu calc is for Ash's one, and even if Charizard profile is composite, is not Ash's Charizard, so it should be MHS to start with

THe profile has separate listings for Manga and for games, and many of the Pokemon profiles have listings for appearances in the anime. Considering how important Ash's charizard is in the anime, I'm surprised it doesn't have a listing for anime stats.

Maybe-as a side note-we should add stats from the anime to charizard (as either "Charizard (Anime)" or "Ash's Charizard," depanding on which would be easier to determine).

Like how Pikachu has separate stats for anime/manga and games.

 

[LordXcano]

Seeing as how Mach 2 Pidgeot, jet-speed Garchomp (Mach 3.4), and Mach speed Golurk are supposed to be considered impressive feats I'm not too sure how I feel about this.

Especially considering how an Ultra Beast being able to "dodge lightning" was considered dangerously high speed few other Pokemon could keep up with. Having Charizard already approaching the speed of lightning itself (Mach 1221) seems pretty ehhh.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@Kytygys15 no, he has keys for Manga/Game, nothing for Anime


At least the MHS thing was removed


I still against the Upgrade

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Seeing as how Mach 2 Pidgeot, jet-speed Garchomp (Mach 3.4), and Mach speed Golurk are supposed to be considered impressive feats I'm not too sure how I feel about this.

Especially considering how an Ultra Beast being able to "dodge lightning" was considered dangerously high speed few other Pokemon could keep up with. Having Charizard already approaching the speed of lightning itself (Mach 1221) seems pretty ehhh.

Thing is, this is the same verse where several Pokemon overpower (and even outspeed) the Lati@s duo, running on air contradicts Dodrio being 60mph, and ozone dragon, mega cat clone, and perfect cell have better stats than god (the last one of those being game mechanics). Charizard being that fast isn't that farfetch'd. Yes. Horrible pun intended.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I have already (not only me, but several calc members) that the "Running on air" calc is wrong. Yet stills being used, so it must be removed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree, yet it's still over 60mph.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

What stills over 60 mph?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Running on air. I have a hard time believing that the calc was off from the 60mph by the thousands.