Massive changes for FFXV and adding a lot of missing things (this is also a question answer thread)

[AshenCrow777]

Why is Noctis only multi continent level? when lore states that the crystal is the physical conceptual manifestation of the planet's souls.

And all Astrals are conceptual abstract beings that comes from the the soul of Eos, with Bahamut being able to transcend a realm an he can exist between life and death plus he has a low godly - Mid godly regen statement (Bahamut).

And why is noctis also only Massively hypersonic when he as relativistic/lightspeed feat. From fighting omega weapons with their laser attacks.

Anyways. "The Astrals are said to be physical manifestations of the star's power—in other words manifestations of the planet Eos itself. They were each "ordered" to protect Eos in their own way. Due to their immense power, they are worshiped by the people as deities. The Crystal, the soul of the planet itself, acts as a conduit for the gods' omniscience even when they are in a deep rest and also as a means to transmit the gods' word to the Oracle."

They are conceptual abstract being, representation of different concepts given for by the planet itself.

Their corporeal bodies can disappear and then reappear at different parts of the world(possibly great speed feat?) , but whereas the other Astrals govern the natural laws of the planet, Bahamut exists separate from it in another dimension. He is thus the only being known to be able to exist in both the mortal realm and the "beyond". "According to Shiva, mortals were created in the Astrals' image." created life.

Astrals' behavior cannot be interpreted because their thought patterns transcend the comprehension of mankind.

The heart of the Crystal, wherein lies the soul of the star and it is in this place that the King will gain the power to fulfill his calling.-Bahamut

The eternal dream world of the crystal lies within the Unseen World. Even the gods long to find their way to that place. FRAGMENT ENTRY "BHUNIVELZE'S SLEEP" IN FINAL FANTASY XIII-2

The realm beyond is considered a higher dimensional plane, that resides between life and death and only Bahamut can live in both mortal word and this world at the same time, effectively being in 2 places at once.

Plus it is considered a similar place has the eternal dream world.

In Verse 2 of Final Fantasy XV: Episode Ignis, the "Mysterious Voice" describes the Crystal as a chrysalis to the soul of the planet.

The Crystal existing as a doorway to a spiritual realm is liken to Etro's gate, from the Fabula Nova Crystallis series.

The unseen realm resembles depictions of the Void from the rest of the series, the mysterious realm of formation that births crystals that form and sustain planets. Whereas the Void doesn't usually have defined continuity with the normal plane, the barrier between the unseen realm and the normal world in Fabula Nova Crystallis is Etro's gate.

And just like the unforseen realm, the realm beyond life and death is implied to be the void as no living creatures or even other Astrals (besides Bahamut) cannot exist in it and the crystal/ring of lucii works like the gates of Etro and prevents anyone or anything from entering without consequences aside from Noctis who was using the ring to be able to manifest himself in the realm beyond.

Final Fantasy XV -The Dawn of the Future- elaborates further in the realm's workings. According to the novel, when the corrupted Ardyn touched the Crystal 2,000 years ago, his soul became trapped in the "beyond",giving Ardyn an immortal existence akin to Bahamut's. Since Bahamut exists both in the physical realm and in the beyond, he can't be killed or infected with the Starscourge.

Low godly negate for Noctis and low/Mid godly regen for Bahamut since the concept of death needed to be applied to him so he could die, it was done by Noctis, Luna, All the Astrals and Ardyn entering the beyond realm by dying and severing Bahamut connection with the soul of Eos (while the others stayed in the waking world) basically removing his immortality all together, after Bahamut was killed since he was the source of all magic in the universe (and so was the light/soul of Eos) and so magic disappeared forever it was erased and all other astrals were erased too from existence.

And Noctis for being the true King is above all of them.

Also Astrals since they are conceptual abstract beings they can appear under any form (in the first war Bahamut was in his traditional dragon form, later on he looks like a Noctis/somnus in Dragon armor and Astrals can take the form of pure energy) The Astrals are said to be physical manifestations of the star's power—in other words manifestations of the planet Eos itself. They were each "ordered" to protect Eos in their own way. Due to their immense power, they are worshiped by the people as deities. The Crystal, the soul of the planet itself, acts as a conduit for the gods' omniscience even when they are in a deep rest and also as a means to transmit the gods' word to the Oracle.

Also one more thing after Bahamut revived Luna and sent her on a mission which she ends up betraying him, Bahamut tries to stop Lunafreya from communing with Gentiana, but the latter manages to impart Bahamut's true intentions to her. Outraged at the revelation that Bahamut means to cleanse the Scourge from the planet by obliterating it its said that he was going to obliterate the planet in the light novel with Teraflare last time he was going to just surface wipe but this time he was going to blow it up.

And no it wouldn't have killed him destroying the physical body of the planet since he wasnt going to Damage Eos soul.

And let's not forget the powers of the ring of lucii is powered by the planet itself, especially when Noctis stayed in the beyond realm that is a higher plane of existence like the eternal dream realm of Lightnings return and spent 10 years of sucking the energy of Eos into his ring.


Bottom line a lot of stuff are missing and FFXV tier should be higher.

Also it should be noted Bahamut has every single ability the glaives/Kings/Noctis and Luna has shown since all their abilities originally came from him and he bestowed it to them.

Also he can use The ring of Lucii abilities since he too can harness the power of the soul of Eos he's the concept of light (the light that represents the soul of Eos) so him having access to all their abilities makes sense especially since he gave it to humans.

Ps. Garuda quest is Canon making FFXV and Ffxiv related to each other, meaning Noctis can also scale to Garuda since Astrals created messangers and they are considered equal to primals in FFXV and both 15 and 14 aknowledge the fact that noctis traveled between the 2 realms

Last thing Bahamut as a ridiculous level of precognition/clairvoyance since he can see countless futures and view them at the same time hence why there's different endings and alternate timelines.

The Omen trailer is considered Canon and further reinforce it that Noctis could have end up killing Luna hence the reason why Bahamut says to the king "I have seen many deaths but now I'm only looking forward to one and then... I can rest" it explains how he was able to be one step forward no matter what happened he basically shaped the events the way he wanted... Until he got arrogant and killed.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Since this is also a Q&A things will be added as we go and be answered here.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Following

 

[AshenCrow777]

Bump

 

[AshenCrow777]

Omega weapon in the expension is comfirmed to be an inter-dimensional that came from other FF universe.

"Our expedition into Taelpar Crag produced some curious fruit: the wreckage of what appears to be an armament of antiquity. I have read many reports claiming the lost civilization of Solheim constructed magitek weapons to fell the gods, but to think that one would appear before my very eyes... Though it is damaged, I believe I can get it up and running. M.E. 745-XI-25th"

"Solheim's "godslayer" is a fascinating feat of early magiteknology. Its high-output laser cannon and dimension-defying mobility are simply breathtaking even by modern standards! Lest our enemies to find out about this wondrous weapon, I have decided to restrict all access to information about the device to senior scientists with Level 3 clearance or higher. M.E. 746-II-3rd"

(again an other light speed/relativistic feat)

"'After running a series of anti-ballistic tests, I am pleased to say the magitek device's plate armor is more resilient than I anticipated. Conventional weapons leave nary a scratch, even our most advanced armaments are no match. It is abundantly clear this machine was designed to withstand any assault the gods might make in their fight against humanity. Perhaps the divine, too, would prove powerless before its might! M.E. 746-VII-29th"

Like every other FF games with omega it exist to hunt and kill godly beings, this omega is extremely hinted to be the same as the other was from in game dialog and other entries too especially the fact it does not originate from the FFXV universe the mere fact that Noct can cross worlds from FFXV to FFXIV says much.

"My researchers were met with the most curious phenomena this morning: the device we dismantled last night had somehow reformed. We lost four workers when a stray laser caught them off guard. Worst of all, my hopes of the weapon staying online were dashed when it abruptly shut down after its rampage. Needless to say, the remaining researchers were less than eager to continue their work. M.E. 747-I-14th"

More light speed statement there's several enemies with Light speed attacks and statements Noctis can dodge several Laser beams shot at him at point blank range and with a special gear it allows him to outpace any attacks coming his way.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also the Bro's are able to go up against Nagalfar. "A nefarious fiend told of in legends, its brutality far surpassing that of other deathclaw. Its name is recorded in lost pages of the Cosmogony as one of the creatures that fought to a standstill against the twenty-four Messengers in the kingdom's nascent years. The return of naglfar is said to be an omen of unspeakable disaster to come."-Beastiary entry

This thing took on 24 messangers of the gods (they are on the same level as Garuda) all alone and fought them into a stalemate.

In dawn of the Future- Aranea took on a Diamand Weapon that was going to obliterate Tenebrea.

Daemon Queen scourge Luna had the complete power of the starscourge, she was able to take on Both Noctis and Ardyn and hold her own against other Astrals while Bahamut assisted her, she was going to use the Terraflare attack to blow up Eos into nothing (she got saved they all fought Bahamut, dragon Boi was gonna Terraflare the world into nothing but he was killed before that happened) so yeah she's comparable to the higher tier cast.

 

[HST_Master]

Gonna glance over some of this but...

Astrals already have Type 8 and 9 and if it's stated to be similar to Bahamut's Ardyn should have type 8 as well.

I'm not sure what the crystal being the manifestation of the planets souls would be or if that's quantifiable.

I'd say Bahamut can get a possibly for the abilities of the Glavies, Noct and Luna.

I don't really see how Omega having Dimension Hoping abilities confirm it's from another universe. All we have is that it can Dimension Hop and that it was made (or assumed to) by Solheim. All the other Omegas were specifically built to hunt down Shinryu.

 

[AshenCrow777]

I'd say Bahamut

I don't really see how Omega having Dimension Hoping abilities confirm it's from another universe. All we have is that it can Dimension Hop and that it was made (or assumed to) by Solheim. All the other Omegas were specifically built to hunt down Shinryu.

Omega that the bros fought they specifically Said that it came from another dimension via hoping through Realities but it does not originate from their reality, but yeah I understand what you mean, and even I am Iffy about but I put here cuz we need all the information we can get (this is also a Q&A) but yeah.

Bahamut is comfirmed to be the source of all Luna's Noctis' the glaives and kings powers he was also the one to have created the Ring of Lucii and he was the one that granted the ring its abilities.

Light of Eos is what powers the planet and Magic in the FFXV universe.

But even then, Daen of the future whole plot ND numerous statements says that Bahamut and Luna (demon form) were going to blow up Eos and the planet, only thing that could stop them was the powers of the Ring, the light of Eos (whole planets energy infused into the ring) and a bunch of high tiers going up against them.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with most of this. Noctis should definitely get a calc for the laser feat if it is acceptable

Also I remember asking a year or two ago if we were ever going to make the CRT for Noctis and gang scaling to the huge Turtle which was like 5C if I remember correctly because they end up defeating it

 

[AshenCrow777]

I agree with most of this. Noctis should definitely get a calc for the laser feat if it is acceptable

Also I remember asking a year or two ago if we were ever going to make the CRT for Noctis and gang scaling to the huge Turtle which was like 5C if I remember correctly because they end up defeating it

Yes I recently made a comment in it and told Ant that I will make a new thread about FFXV after I saw your post no way I was going to let be forgotten but because of the necro rules I had to do a new.

And Adamantoise is definitely around 5-C.

One other thing Noctis Existence Erasure has the range of freaking mountain and it literally shatters reality so yeah noctis can control the size of his EE technique https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJOt923hn0&list=LLTUOv3-efx1zefeLj7AUGQw&index=2&t=17s skip to 1:49 mark.

As you can all see the range of Noctis EE can go up to the size of a mountain.

 

[AshenCrow777]

I agree with most of this. Noctis should definitely get a calc for the laser feat if it is acceptable

And yeah it should be definitely be calculated plus there's several statements of them being light speed /possibly FTL in game and on screen feet.

Deathclaws have an omnidirectional attack by manifesting beams around noctis at point blank range and the guy can dodge it.

And there's several other feats like omega and stuff like that, I see no reason to not accept it.

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask staff listed in the Final Fantasy verse page and members listed in the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

 

[AshenCrow777]

You should ask staff listed in the Final Fantasy verse page and members listed in the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

Already done.

Anyways more Lightspeed statements that would support the speed upgrade to FTL reactions speed.


"Launch a warp-strike to close the gap between Noctis and his enemy at lightspeed. Deals more damage when initiated from farther away." LOADING SCREEN


And we know it's not flowery language since there's several in game showings of it and the royal line of Luci are able to manipulate Light magic so his Bahamut.


since he's their source of power and also considered the concept of Light representing the Star of light (Eos alternate name his star and considered a celestial body in the Japanese version and his called literally Hoshi several times) , it is described to be a Star and the planet is his cocoon, hence why the STARSCOURGE was such a threat cuz it was his opposite and also why other Astrals represented physical concepts of the planet but Bahamut represented its soul which is called several times a star.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Dissidia Final Fantasy refers to Omega as a powerful machine created by an ancient civilization to destroy another powerful entity that travels dimensions and is still aiming to complete this objective. In Final Fantasy XIII-2, Omega was sealed away within another dimension due to its power and need to destroy everything and everyone around it. In Final Fantasy XV Omega was be created by an ancient civilization (the NiLf were wrong about that since soulheim found Omega) to slay the gods, and given the ability to warp between dimensions.

The incarnations of Omega appearing across the series may be either the same entity traveling between worlds, or they are shades of the original Omega, as the Final Fantasy XII information on Omega implies, that were sent out to different worlds by the original Omega that created them.

they obviously went with the second one, and this is no different than Noel and Sarah scaling to Gilgamesh this Omega is way too heavily hinted to be a shade and the NiLf THOUGHT it was the people of soulheim who created it, until later in the game you realized that omega crossed dimensions only to kill Noctis because it went specifically back online for him hence the reason why it teleported himself in front of the cast in Insomnia.

Shiva is aware of its origin about being created by an ancient civilization but she does not say its soulheim who made it she's says its a god killing weapon from another world and the astrals decided to steer clear from it.

Theres more evidence pointing it to be a shade than not, plus All DLC creatures that was brought in the game are specific monsters from other FF franchise and a lot of them (like Garuda), are outright stated to come from their respective Universe.

And it wouldn't be the first time Square Enix do stuff like that, the only difference is because FFXV is way more down to earth than other FF games hence the reason why they try to keep that air of mystery.

But even then with how ambiguous they want to be about it and the fact that they purposely went against the soulheim lore to keep it ambiguous this can be 50/50 either a a shade or a soulheim weapon.

Either way characters are planet level possibly higher.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Following for now.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also Noctis was teleported to the FFXIV universe since at the end of the Garuda fight after helping Y'jhimei he was reverse teleported and he should be comparable in speed and strenght to end game warrior of light.

Not only that the people of Solheim created cross dimension/universe teleporters and left them in several other Universes Like the universe of FFXIV when Y'jhimei found one in some ruins after trying to escape the lizard folks.

So yeah Noctis should have a special key that scales him to warrior of light or something.

And yes all of this is Canon no matter how ridiculous it is since they literally introduced the concepts of messangers other Universes, expanded on Solheim and it was implemented in the Dawn of the future Novel which is also Canon.

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask staff listed in the Final Fantasy verse page and members listed in the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

You should ask some that you did not ask before to comment here, but make sure to specify what you need their help with.

 

[AshenCrow777]

You should ask some that you did not ask before to comment here, but make sure to specify what you need their help with.

I already contacted literally 95% of them.

Reppuzan Dark649 CrimsonStarFallen SinsofMan Sixo Bullets TartaChocholate

They are all aware that I want them to review the it and I rather not annoy them with spams.

Already talk to DDM about it but he said that he couldn't be of help since he is not knowledgeable on FFXV but he did give me tips.


And no offense but I rather not contact Matthew yet with howich problems seems to be going with him and other members, if things goes well he can obviously participate, but with what recently happened between him and ZephyrosOmega or other people on other threads like Yggdrasil marvel.

I don't feel like dealing with that kind of headache no offense.

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew should preferably be contacted. He is usually knowledgeable and does not cause much trouble anymore.

Something very important happened to him IRL though, so it could take a while for him to reply.

 

[DMUA]

I agree with most of this. Noctis should definitely get a calc for the laser feat if it is acceptable

User blog:ThePerpetual/FFXV: Of Imps and Lasers

Also, I dunno how a planet's worth of souls is equal to destroying a planet so

Either way that's my only contribution because I don't really know anything of XV

 

[AshenCrow777]

User blog:ThePerpetual/FFXV: Of Imps and Lasers

Also, I dunno how a planet's worth of souls is equal to destroying a planet so

Either way that's my only contribution because I don't really know anything of XV

Thanks and for the planet there's still Bahamut who was going to blow it up in the novel, Ifrit feat is comfirmed to be 5-A since he was going to reduced the world to ashes and he was part of the few that could contend with Bahamut full strength.

But thanks again.


Also the speed feat is quite a bit low, because it does not take in account endgame Noctis who can dodge omnidirectional lasers getting shot at him.

 

[DMUA]

Just the lasers coming from multiple directions wouldn't change the speed Noctis is moving at, it would more mean he has enough skill to keep omnidirectional awareness

Unless he actually moves faster by which case h

 

[AshenCrow777]

Just the lasers coming from multiple directions wouldn't change the speed Noctis is moving at, it would more mean he has enough skill to keep omnidirectional awareness

Unless he actually moves faster by which case h

True Armiger unleashed actually does that, it makes him and his weapon move faster than any enemy with laser attacks in the game which is surprising since in game information comfirms that Noctis warping ability in base form is the speed of light.

Launch a warp-strike to close the gap between Noctis and his enemy at lightspeed. Deals more damage when initiated from farther away. LOADING SCREEN

So noctis base speed wouldn't be sub relativistic, and against his fight with Ardyn (final fight), they moved so fast that time started to slow down and they launched each other into a building each, when they got back to the ground time speed back up and the debris fell.

 

[DMUA]

huh

well that's that

 

[AshenCrow777]

Yeah, I guess that would put him speed of light base and FTL combat speed pre time skip.

Post time skip would put him a solid FTL on both front and possibly FTL+ with True Armiger.

Example of the techniques I'm talking about (in training mode) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAphh9z1hgQ&list=LLTUOv3-efx1zefeLj7AUGQw&index=3&t=130s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RH2dC4EStU8&list=LLTUOv3-efx1zefeLj7AUGQw&index=2&t=295s

 

[AshenCrow777]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Has somebody contacted all of the staff members listed in the Final Fantasy verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List yet?

 

[AshenCrow777]

Has somebody contacted all of the staff members listed in the Final Fantasy verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List yet?

I have, practically all of them seem to have disappeared.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. That is a problem. It is likely that nothing will happen here then.

 

[TartaChocholate]

And thus I spoiled myself the snot out of FFXV. Then again it's may fault for not getting around to play the game even though I've had it since release date >_>;

Consequences of my negligence aside, this seems to make a lot of sense. Though I think you need to post the bits where the dialogue bits and statements you mention are brought up, be it videos or scans from the Dawn of the Future novel.

Like I mentioned in the FF main thread, I think it is possible for Noct to get a FFXIV key but all the details of the powers he got there should be clarified. IIRC you mentioned the WoL was empowering him or something similar.

If the Astrals are manifestations of metaphysical aspects of Eos, would that give them Abstract Existence? I mean, each one tied to the aspect of Eos they should represent?

To be fair, Ifrit burning down the world is taken as surface destruction rather than full-on planetary destruction, so it's more like High 6-A. Though that doesn't take away the other scaling you brought up.

Though I agree with something, if Noct has been dealing with lasers that's a Sub-Relativistic feat at the very least and likely much higher.

Other thing that's possible, Noct managing to finish off Ardyn would translate into Existence Erasure or it would be Immortality Negation and Regenerationn Negation of a pretty high magnitude? From what I know, high enough Immortality allows to survive getting Hakai'd and combe back. I don't have full context, but if the are other instances of negation Noct actually could have a pretty darn powerful Immortal negation

 

[AshenCrow777]

Snip

Soooooooo freaking sorry that you got spoiled by my thread mate feels like I robbed you of a good experience.

And yeah I have posted things from novel and I game dialog I'll put some video stuff later (since I'll have to sort through several walkthroughs and LP)

And yeah I talked to other peeps about on discord and DDM it should qualify as abstract existence, it has all the requirements needed.

I agree with the seperate Key for XIV Noctis, and for the immortality regen stuff it's basically all of the above the game states he gained the same kind of "Immortality" as Bahamut making it on par with these abstracts beings, total body destruction did absolutely nothing and total soul destruction didn't do anything.

So they had to wait 2,000 years for noctis to be born and kill him,Bahamut represents the concept of the light of Eos, Ardyn received the same treatment but he represented the starscourg, opposite of the light hence gaining an immortality like Bahamut who can exist in the mortal physical realm and in the realm between life and death at the same time.

You need to destroy their concepts to kill either of them permanently, (killing the concept of Eos (light) removed all magic and gods in the FFXV universe) Noct destroyed the concept of the starscourg Ardyn, all the demons and everything related to them were erased from existence.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Don't worry about it, it's been 4 years already or so. Way overdue for no spoilers.

I might be wrong on this one, but AFAIK Existence Erasure isn't enough to destroy a concept, it has to be accompanied by Conceptual Destruction. If it is as you described, then Noct destroying Ardyn and Astrals actually reaches that.

Though you kinda got me regarding how high Immortality goes if there is Conceptual stuff involved. I know that if Ardyn can take being destroyed body, soul, mind and being annihilated completely and still comeback that is Mid-Godly, and Noct killing permanently such a foe is Mid Godly Immortality Negation at the least. Dunno if Conceptual Kills foregoes the need to negate Immortality

Is there a way to measure the plane of the Astrals? I mean, there are mentions of a star and such but does that mean they reach the Planet Eos at most or are simply a much greater power tied to a smaller "shell" of sorts?

 

[AshenCrow777]

The latter they are a much greater power tied to a smaller shell the star is the planet life force(basically like the life stream of FFVII) and soul aka "the light of Eos" , Bahamut is directly tied to that light while the other astrals are tied to its shell the planet.

While each of them represent different concepts and elements of the planet(fire, water, ice, earth) dragon boy represents the Light (he's also the strongest because of it) and its only true rival is the starscourge it is complete darkness able to corrupt the light.


And yeah I agree with what you say about the regen stuff and the reste.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Thought so as well from what you described. The issue is giving it some sort of measurement to turn it into some sort of tier. Is there anything you can recall in that regard? An statement or display about the Astral Realm that may help to gauge how large it may be? Kinda like a galaxy sized dimension, a pocket solar system, an universe or even a simple larger star?

I think it's also important to bring up how Noct destroyed Ardyn and the Scourge. If we're talking about something as big as Conceptual Manipulation we have to be very careful and detailed on how and why Noct has it so to make it clear if it's achieved by a special technique, or weapon or Noct became powerful enough he has it as an inherent power. And also how it ties with EE and Immortality Negation.

I think for now a good start is bringing the tids and bits of the game and other materials that backs up what we are currently discussing

 

[AshenCrow777]

Bump (I'm gathering a bunch of statements and other stuff with a friend I just made so I don't want this to go necro once finished I'll post everything we found together here)

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Regidian]

For noctis being comparable to the Wol in the crossover it's for me a big no since we have never tell that his comparable to us, and we have take nobody seriously(in strentgh) in these quest, like you have tell garuda ff15 have a strentgh to a basic garuda we know in arr, and in this time (for what i remember the event appear after neo exdeath) we could easily defeat (and technically os in lore wise) the garuda ff14. The fact that we buff him doesn't tell that he will be comparable to us.