Masadaverse: Reinhard Heydrich's scaling from Senshinkan...

[CrossverseCrisis]

Sooooooo.......i've been told that the scaling of Reinhard by WoG to Senshinkan seemed rather wrong to do so as Shigeo (whose that guy from Mob 100 Psycho that also had a WoG scaling thing himself? I think i keep getting his name wrong) previously had something like that for him until it was decided that it's not a suitable thing to do or whatever.

I actually had thought this up for a short while and also think it's rather wrong for a couple reasons. For one, the idea that Reinhard is still being scaled from a WoG statement or two (he's actually scaled from two AFAIK, yes) yet another character getting the downgrade treatment seems rather unfair and actually even bias for us to do that. Another thing is that AFAIK, the scaling in power from Shinza Bansho (Paralost, Dies Irae, and Kajiri Kamui Kagura) and Senshinkan's Top Tiers are pretty different. The former, for their Base Forms, don't get anywhere higher than Tier 6 unless they hit God Form (A.K.A, Hadou/Gudou God status). Senshinkan meanwhile actually get higher for them to up to as high as Low 4-C for their Top Tiers due to one of their characters here.

All in all, if we are truly not to ever use Cross-universal scaling from WoG like how we did with....that one guy from Mob 100, then we should also do this in turn for Reinhard here. This of course also means taking out any losses or victories he had when he was of this tier, but i'm fine with that either way.

 

[Antvasima]

Please explain what Senshinkan is, and why Reinhard was scaled to it/him/her.

 

[Promestein]

Senshinkan is another one of Masada's works. Masada stated that Reinhard is comparable to Amakasu.

 

[SomebodyData]

I would like to see both sides of the argument for or against the scaling first before choosing a side, but I do want to note that a particular reason why the Mob scaling was removed if I remember correctly, was because it was too vague.

PS. Hello Cross, been a while since we talked huh? Sorry about that, busy with tests and the like, currently I only have a few moments now and then to shitpost lol, and the ACT and AP exams are coming soon so I doubt I'll be able to talk to you that much even afterward, but just wanted to get this off my chest so it doesn't seem like I'm giving you the cold shoulder.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Senshinkan is a VN that Masada made that takes place in a separate verse from the first 3 I mentioned above.

The reason Reinhard is scaled to Nakri Kuubou is because Masada stated of the former being as powerful as the gods from Senshinkan, each of whom are at least more powerful than Kuubou.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

There's also that thing Prom said as well. Reinhard has not one but two WoG statements that gives him the current scaling.

@Somebody: I get cold shoulders a lot from most people here so it's fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you don't get a cold shoulder from me. You can always talk with me in private, if you wish.

Anyway, we generally tend to avoid scaling between different franchises in such a manner. However, the issue turns less self-evident when both use the same original author, and we have little else to go by.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I honestly don't see the issue with using WoG statements relating to two franchises made by the same person, unless it's absurdly inconsistent.

So I'm fine with Reinhard keeping his ranking.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I meant in general, Ant. I like people to talk to me as long as they don't say something that either annoys or piss me off. But seeing as nobody tries to say something that goes out of that....

Enough of that. Well the thing is that Reinhard in the main VN of Dies Irae is actually a lot stronger than from another VN called "Interview with Kaziklu Bey", which takes place in the same verse and is a canon prologue to DI. We just don't know how powerful he is beyond Continent level.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I just got back from watching a movie.

So anyways, Everlasting had told me and said here earlier above my last comment that we should keep this sort of rating for Reinhard in Dies Irae given that he doesn't think this is an issue as long as this isn't inconsistent.

Thing is, Star level Shinza was not exactly a thing for it's base characters. As i noted above, Shinza Bansho (the series with Paralost, Dies Irae, and KKK, which is short for Kajiri Kamui Kagura btw) Never had anything beyond past Tier 6 without hax and without using their God Forms. Another thing is that Senshinkan and Shinza are of separate verses, with the only thing in connection between them is DI a video game in the formers world. There is, again, the fact that Reinhard in the main VN storyline is actually a lot more powerful than from Interview. The question is how powerful he's gotten from Continent level (@Antvasima: IF you ask, the reason for Rein's tier at Interview is because he one-shotted a being who can bust continents while weakened and his 6-A level attack being incomplete).

That and even Ven and a friend of his whose kind of going to be on here more actively think the scaling is wrong due to it being WoG.

However, SD does have a point that actually kind of supports Ever's point. While i have no way of getting Masada's statements, which i actually would like to see them at hand from Trex, EMC, or Ven if they could....really that actually helps, Masada's is more direct or something such as Reinhard being as strong as Amakasu's God Summons and another statement (Prom and everyone, keep a note at hand of this) saying that if Reinhard and Amakasu were to fight, the former would win and defeat the other; this one is if Amakasu in quesion were to ever appear in Dies Irae according to what i've been told of by EMC and Trex last year iirc.

All in all though, i don't really mind either way of how this goes but i find both points to make somewhat sense in their ways. I only made this thread due to being brought up again and weather others here in our community is alright with having Reinhard as is or having it removed and taken down.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am uncertain about this myself.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

[VenomElite]

@Ever

Inconsistency is not the issue. They are not part of the same universe. It's like scaling Kylo Ren from the Force Awakens to Sora of Kingdom Hearts because "Disney" (yes I know that'd be very inconsistent). Reinhard has no feats that put him at planet or star level. He is a chatacter of extraordinary hax and given his apoptosis nature and being "near Atziluth (1-A power), even in Briah" makes his base tier difficult to guage.

Amakasu is a different matter. He may be a similar chatacter but Amakasu has a 2-C attack while Reinhard arguably also has universal statements that are not taken into consideration.

1. IkaBey Reinhard scales to Methuselah

2. Dies Irae Reinhard is superior to his previous self, his tier in this title is more difficult to guage.

3. Reinhard with Hadou Godhood is perfectly fine the way it is

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Ven

That's a blanket company, not a specific guy who's made the two games. There's a difference if some random Disney executive says that, and if Nomura says that and he worked on TFA.

 

[VenomElite]

@Ever

Even with this powerscaling, Reinhard has universal statements via Gladsheimer. Dies Irae is very complex on how it treats power. That's why I find Masada's statement to be a bit...weird

I mean the Longinus alone can affect an Outerversal being.

How could Reinhard be comparable to Amakasu if this the case?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Pretty sure that the Longinus just made Marie feel emotions or something, not exactly what I'd call affecting.

And wait universal statements via Gladsheimr? First time I heard this.

 

[VenomElite]

It pierced a hole in her soul and falicited the change from Gudou to Hadou. That's affecting her 100%.

Universe statements, we'd have to get into that another time. Basically, Valhalla is supposedly universe sized, has been called a universeor "infinite" (can't recall which at the moment), and is locked outside the multiverse. Given that Hadou Briah is one's territory and you are one with said territory, that would make Reinhard scale to Valhalla.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I also heard that the Longinus had statements of being a "universe in the form of a spear" as well but idk how often that was said in comparison to the Valhalla one. Then again, the spear one may actually be more of flowery language than than anything but that's just only me.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Ven

Wait... wouldn't that mean Reinhard is 1-A with Longinuslanze Testament?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm pretty sure Trex said something about against using that, considering that would break the power level for non god Shinza characters.

 

[VenomElite]

Practically, yes. I'm not saying use it, just that it makes Reinhard in Dies difficult to tier. I mean the Longinus is the crystallization of Mercurius' desire to die, so it's really a 1-A weapon or has that potential.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I guess that explains how it survived up to KKK after Hajun's victory? Also if either is true, that makes him honestly stupid to use in vs terms even then considering what it did to Marie...

 

[VenomElite]

To reiterate. Neither Reinhard with Yetzirah or Briah is universal. Honestly, Planet level was fine.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Why Planet level?

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

WoG scaling to Amakasu's gods whos powerlevel are in the planetary range in average

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Fab: That's being discussed on weather we should still scale Dies Irae/Main Story Reinhard to that. On top of the one of Reinhard > Amakasu one.

Though speaking of that, idk how the gods are Planetary when they're more powerful than Kuubou whose Small Star level at his highest?

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

To be fair. Kuubou's star level rating comes from a calc that pulls number from statement from a novel (energy needed to move continent literally multiplied by a million). I mean, im not really against it if you want to calc that feat but sometimes pulling numbers from statements in novel tends to get whacky.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Doesn't his power get increased by a trillion?

You are correct on that tho. This was done considering the energy of a moving continent is supposed to be in the 6-A or High 6-A range if it's correct. Then again, the novel only stated his punches have the power of moving continents so....

Anyways, Ven told me there's a lot of problems about DI Reinhard that he wants to leave him as is for now until we can come up with an actual solution to this.

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Well, i forgot what was the -illion but you get my point right ?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Yeah. Though technically you're right, as the ACF says his power boost can be millions or even a trillion. I just put Trillion cause that's the highest that it was noted there.

But anyways again, Ven said we should just leave him alone as is for now until we have more of a grasp for what to do if we stop using WoG scalings for him.