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Masadaverse Discussion Thread 28

According to Saoshyant Desatir, Muzan (Magsarion) is the very embodiment of martial might, the greatest warrior of all eras (universes), no one has shed blood more than him, unsurpassed in the field of "killing" and the only undefeated God from past to present. Satanael described him as a monster in human form.

There's a lot of wank on him and Avesta continues this trend.
 
GogitoQ said:
You could say Mercurius fought Reinhard therefore Mercurius would also scale to Reinhard in term of skill
Click to expand...
Merc is a magician so i doubt he has the skill in fights like reinhard or muzan, he is more about hax,exploding stars and stuff like that
 
Reinhard has experience, not skill.

It's actually explicitly pointed out by Shirou that "skill" is just something weaker people try to get to keep up with stronger people, and people who are already strong simply don't need skill at all. Hence why Reinhard isn't skilled in battle - he can just faceroll everything, he never needed to develop any skill when simply swinging his arm in the enemy's general direction was enough to kill it.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Reinhard has experience, not skill.
It's actually explicitly pointed out by Shirou that "skill" is just something weaker people try to get to keep up with stronger people, and people who are already strong simply don't need skill at all. Hence why Reinhard isn't skilled in battle - he can just faceroll everything, he never needed to develop any skill when simply swinging his arm in the enemy's general direction was enough to kill it.
Click to expand...
I think he still skilled in battle but just mostly because he was pretty much perfect at everything he does iirc before he got into contact with merc he was already quite a monster in human terms
 
EdenSux said:
GogitoQ said:
You could say Mercurius fought Reinhard therefore Mercurius would also scale to Reinhard in term of skill
Click to expand...
Merc is a magician so i doubt he has the skill in fights like reinhard or muzan, he is more about hax,exploding stars and stuff like that
Click to expand...
One of the reason why I said that is battle in rea route
 
GogitoQ said:
there is 2 seprate scans of machina have plot erasure without the word "history" in it and the one does talking about history it doesn't mention story
Click to expand...
you can send those scans?
 
I would be fine with him also having plot erasure i like the idea of mah boi machina punches being even more bs
 
Regarding Machina's power, to me it seems to be some kind of Time Manipulation. The impression I got is that it erases all the time between now and your demise, forcing your future into the present. It also eliminates the cause, leaving only the result (i.e. your death)

At least, that's my take on it.
 
i mean it constantly stated Omega Ewigkeit (4th Era or Dies Irae) is Mercurius's story/script. so Machina's punches beign capable of erasing from plot makes sense. because he only erases them from Mercurius's story not Masadaverse's story with Masada as writer. so saying Machina has plot erasure isn't really a iilogical assumtion only we never argued about it.

not to mention it stated 1st Era was Mithra's story too and Muzan was similiar to a fictional character who perceived his own writer. damn it even stated Hadou God Ren Fujii transcended his own role (in Rea Route). as we know each world is a canvas/picture too and canvas = a page for writing story.

also ending history = your history reached to a end and is dead/shut down now.
 
Erasing something inside the ghetto =/= erasing something from the Ghetto. Machina being able to erase stuff doesn't mean he can take them out of Merc's law.

>damn it even stated Hadou God Ren Fujii transcended his own role (in Rea Route).

You are taking it out of context, he transcend his role as he is not a substitute anymore, he becomes his own thing, his own being seeking his own happiness through Marie.

That was the whole point of taking all the mercury out of his soul, his being. Not some super convoluted meta plot hax thing

In short, is just a fancy way to say "I'm not being controlled anymore by God"
 
@Tony di bugalu

Reinhard directly erased Methuselah from Mercurius's law (through Machina's power [1] purging old law and creating a new world [2] it in contex was erasing Methuselah from Mercurius's law and reshaping it without Darkness as a abstraction) and it stated Machina is capable of doing same thing and erasing Methuselah too [3] it also stated being a pillar of reality Methuselah was keeping some weigh of Mercurius's law [1] so erasing him was same as erasing a part of law.

also this scan directly is talking about Mercurius's law [2]

about Ren thing Ren also considered himself as Portagonist of a story too [3]

@Ricky365

i'm sure about seeing mentioned statement/scan but i can't find it.
 
>Reinhard directly erased Methuselah from Mercurius's law (through Machina's power [1]

You do know that he didn't throw the spear at Methu, right? IIRC the propierties of the spear like it's all ending power, undodgeable nature and always faster than you is when it get's thrown.

Second, Machina can't do that of "purging old law and creating a new world [2] it in contex was erasing Methuselah from Mercurius's law and reshaping it without Darkness as a abstraction) ", we see how if Machina ever punched Methu the whole world would have crumbled and be destroyed as nothing can exist without Darkness (as in a conceptual level).

This is a Rein thing completly as he overwrites Merc Law (as little as it is) with a new law.

>and it stated Machina is capable of doing same thing and erasing Methuselah too [3]

You are either ignoring the other part where Methu says that if hit the darkness would crumble along with the world and everything would gone poof, Machina ERASES things, not creates new ones or reshapes reality.

His Briah is ending all things, if it exist it obviously has history and Machina forcibly makes it end.

>it also stated Methuselah was keeping some weigh of Mercurius's law [1] so erasing him was same as erasing a part of law.

This is the reason people say Methuselah is the closest one in nature to it's father, because of the stupid levels of will power to keep going despite Merc growing bored of life and thus letting all the other Gods die

>also this scan directly is talking about Mercurius's law [2]

The whole thing of DI is compared to an opera where Merc does "write" the plot to keep things going, this isn't something literal, it is more of "I have the rights to end you" as they have a close relation for having half a soul of the other.

It also is because if Ren dies the substitute does and Merc will face his apoptosis again thus taking his opera out of whatever way he wanted.

>about Ren thing Ren also considered himself as Portagonist of a story too [3]

Jabs and winks at the readers are good for a good ending but how is that proof that he somehow found out he is a character in a novel?

This one is not meant to be taken literally, heck, Shirou does the same thing all the time because he considers himself the protagonist of his own life and others the side characters, same with Ren.
 
"You do know that he didn't throw the spear at Methu, right? IIRC the propierties of the spear like it's all ending power, undodgeable nature and always faster than you is when it get's thrown."

when it stated properties of the spear is only when it get's thrown? also we don't know if there really is something called LLT'S blasts and that isn't only some flowery language for throwing Lance itself. tbh LLT'S blast seems pretty metaphorical to me. right after saying "Lord Heydrich would blast him away with sheer power" it stated "Everyone present felt the ancient arcane evaporate due to the blinding strike from the holy lance" and "even after taking a direct hit from Lord Heydrich's holy lance."

anyway it doesn't debunk anything. because Reinhard was capable of reshaping a part of Mercurius's law (through erasing concept of personified nature) and Machina capable of erasing a part of it. both are same as affecting Mercurius's law.

also it stated Machina has highest destructive power in the cosmos [1][2] so arguably Machina's punches > LLT

it also is backed up by fact Reinhard only erased "concept of personified darkness" and yet "Machina's fists would surely go beyond that" [3]

"Second, Machina can't do that of "purging old law and creating a new world [2] it in contex was erasing Methuselah from Mercurius's law and reshaping it without Darkness as a abstraction) ", we see how if Machina ever punched Methu the whole world would have crumbled and be destroyed as nothing can exist without Darkness (as in a conceptual level)."

i don't see any difference. Machina also was about erasing Methuselah and as result a part of Mercurius's law. only Reinhard's advantage was capability in erasing "concept of personified nature" rather than erasing "concept of darkness itself" [4]

"You are either ignoring the other part where Methu says that if hit the darkness would crumble along with the world and everything would gone poof, Machina ERASES things, not creates new ones or reshapes reality."

as i elaborated it doesn't change anything. both Reinhard and Machina were capable of affecting Mercurius's law.

'The whole thing of DI is compared to an opera where Merc does "write" the plot to keep things going, this isn't something literal, it is more of "I have the rights to end you" as they have a close relation for having half a soul of the other.'

this pretty much seems like your own interpretation rather than something literal and backed up enough. tbh it dozens times stated Mercurius's world is his story and Machina gives a end to all stories. unless we are supposed to thinking it is giving a end to all Operas or some?

"You are taking it out of context, he transcend his role as he is not a substitute anymore, he becomes his own thing, his own being seeking his own happiness through Marie."

he becomes his own thing because he transcended his role in Mercurius's story.
 
Is this thread dead or something? No comments for nearly a weak outside of Jarcus.

why don't we talk about including profiles for Avester characters. Some characters we can easily put at 4-B to 4-A like any of the Daeva or Demon Kings are at least multi-star level.

We at least know enough about various characters to just give them an Unknown Tier and fill in their powers.
 
No one is obligated to post anything. Anyone can post things whenever they feel like/want to post something. If there's no one else posting then that just mean there's no ongoing discussion being held

'Sides. I very much doubt most of the users who post here are even a 1k yen backer at Enty
 
Nah, this threads been pretty dead for a while now. Think a lot of the people here use the Shinza 4chan or Spacebattles where trexalfa posts summaries. Yeah, i thought about proposing we start making profiles for say Mags or Bahlavan or Frederica or whoever myself
 
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