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Masadaverse Discussion thread 27
- Thread starter Lady_Ashford
- Start date
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- Tags
- shinza banshou
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Alma's Commandments is called Sacred Devotion (þÑ×ÞüûÒü¬Òéïþî«Þ║½) with its furigana being Spandarmand (Òé╣ÒâæÒâ│ÒâÇÒâ½Òâ×Òâë) which is the middle persian name of the divine entity called Spenta Armaiti.
It's a very scary with ability to kill anyone even if they were tens of thousands light years away once the conditions are met.
Alma used this commandments to defeat 5 first class Daevas
It's a very scary with ability to kill anyone even if they were tens of thousands light years away once the conditions are met.
- ÒéêÒé赡úþó║Òü½Þ¿ÇÒüêÒü░ÒÇüµØíõ╗ÂÒéƵ║ÇÒüƒÒüùÒüƒþø©µëïÒü©Òü«þÁÂÕ»¥þÜäÒü¬µ«║Õ«│µ¿®Òü«þì▓Õ¥ùÒüºÒÇüµ«║ÒüÖµ®ƒ
Alma used this commandments to defeat 5 first class Daevas
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Whoops forgot to write distance lolInfera28 said:
It's Tens of thousands light years (distance)
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What are the Kanji for Kamunagara?
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Nevermind, found it ÚÜÅþÑ×þø©.
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Distortion is far weaker than Briah, and the ones that get closest are incapable of being controlled, or at least before the trip to the Impure World.
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None is superior to the other.
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Well, they are both very different from eachother. Hard to compare. I was just talking about how Briah tends to have greater effects as far as I am aware.
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Distortion is also called "power of the old world".
It even states distortion users just basically ignore existing laws and enforce their own. I guess there's a bit of a fundemental difference between them though.
But yeah, neither are superior to the other
It even states distortion users just basically ignore existing laws and enforce their own. I guess there's a bit of a fundemental difference between them though.
But yeah, neither are superior to the other
Lyle and Lil from Paradise Lost drawn by G Yuusuke
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@Arianrhod
Man, i am hyped for the C97 Book Masada will give us.
Man, i am hyped for the C97 Book Masada will give us.
- More explanation on Muzan's era/Second Heaven World. One which includes a story about Paralost (Specifically Satanel)
- More info about the world before Shinza was a thing (as in, Pre-Throne Era)
- More art done by G Yuusuke hopefully too
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Doubt this "Episode Satanel" (I like this name even if unofficial) will be included in History of Pantheon. Basically because the page we got from it already says it is unpublished, it'd be weird if it said that and it were included in the book. But basically, I'm pretty hyped for this new character, Mortaria Samael.
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Onee-san looking Ast let's goo
And she's Satanel childhood friend. Masada seems using this trope a lot now lol
And she's Satanel childhood friend. Masada seems using this trope a lot now lol
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So, a thing came to mind randomly about what Merc did that changed the Throne and made a "multiverse" (i dont believe it resulted in regular multiverse theory, basically and dont see good enough evidence of the contrary).
Ok, so Satananel is stated in the pantheon prologue to have somehow used time travel to defeat Muzan and make himself god. Also, seemingly only his era and Hajun's had a decrease in human progress (time travel and societal collapse from selfish mindsets could result in that).
According to Pantheon, the resulting paradox that Satanel started is what led to Merc existing and it was also a way for the Throne to cope and adapt to the inconsistency.
So it is very possible than just resulting in a regular multiverse (sounds weird coming from Mr. 0 freedom predetermined destiny timeloop man), what he actually did was developt the Throne's "**** the timeline, **** consistency, i dont care" attitude. Basically, allowing the throne to recognize the validity / canonicity of dead or retconned gods (for Muzan and possibly Mithra) and their worlds.
A side effect of this may be some effects on the previous timeline, like the 1st Heaven's era going from a medieval fantasy era to a space exploration era for no reason.
I suppose that this could also mean that Merc originated in some weird missinterpretation of the Satanel rule mixed with elements of the pregious 2 eras, until Merc becoming god allowed the Throne to get its shit together
Ok, so Satananel is stated in the pantheon prologue to have somehow used time travel to defeat Muzan and make himself god. Also, seemingly only his era and Hajun's had a decrease in human progress (time travel and societal collapse from selfish mindsets could result in that).
According to Pantheon, the resulting paradox that Satanel started is what led to Merc existing and it was also a way for the Throne to cope and adapt to the inconsistency.
So it is very possible than just resulting in a regular multiverse (sounds weird coming from Mr. 0 freedom predetermined destiny timeloop man), what he actually did was developt the Throne's "**** the timeline, **** consistency, i dont care" attitude. Basically, allowing the throne to recognize the validity / canonicity of dead or retconned gods (for Muzan and possibly Mithra) and their worlds.
A side effect of this may be some effects on the previous timeline, like the 1st Heaven's era going from a medieval fantasy era to a space exploration era for no reason.
I suppose that this could also mean that Merc originated in some weird missinterpretation of the Satanel rule mixed with elements of the pregious 2 eras, until Merc becoming god allowed the Throne to get its shit together
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SleepyTBubble said:
And here i thought giving the story of the era of the 1st Heaven's rule was a bad call because it would reveal too much shit too early.
This seems way more problematic. It definetely is starting to feel like Masada is scared of not being able to finish the story somehow and wants to put the info out there really soon. (Either that or he doesnt care about keeping readers interested on the mystery aspect)
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All of what you are saying is outright false and either disproven already, or left vague to be solved later. The multiverse resulting from Snake's Law is a multiverse in every sense of the word, infinite universes, infinite timelines, infinite souls. There's plenty of evidence of this, saying otherwise is literally ignoring evidence.
No, it was a single line and we know what he did to become God from Paradise Lost itself, which is the story of the end of Muzan's universe and its replacement by Myoujou's. He had Ast use her Astaroth equation willingly to erase himself from the timestream, thus erasing his incredibly heavy Sin and allowing him to use the Tree of Sephirot (bypassing Singularity it seems) to rise up to the Throne after rewriting his existence. Saoshyant Desatir basically reveals he retconned Muzan and his era out of existence via lolscience, as he literally has no chance against Mags in a fight involving martial prowess (thus making him the only undefeated God ever).
This thing about decrease in human progress in Satanel's era is literally fanfiction, as what we see in its earliest stages is literally at the same stage of development as Paradise Lost's Sodom, with a working cinema industry even. KKK's VFB describes it as an "ancient myth" era, and Satanel is described as machine-like God, with great focus on science. His universe updates as if it were a computer. There's literally no indication of it being less advanced (similarly, Hajun's world had so low a progress rate because people are selfish ***** who don't share inventions or cooperate for greater progress, not from civilizational collapse or whatever, which was something that happened in Muzan's world).
The reasons for Mercurius' existence are left vague so as to be developed in further installments, likely the Third Shinza installment. The paradox method is just one of them, others are stuff related to the updating system of Satanel's world and contradictions inherent to it. By defining ignorance as the source of Evil (Sin), which had to be eliminated to succeed in its absolute purification, Satanel's upgrades created a world of omniscience, that generated a Craving for the unknown (sounds familiar?) as a reaction. Similarly, bugs in his system such as the Gommorah (of which we know shit about) began appearing, Shamash still have problems dating to Paradise Lost, etc. This stuff is inherent to Zoar, so updating cannot eliminate them, so Satanel simply resigned his post for Mercurius to take. As I said, Saoshyant Desatir left this vague enough to be seriously elaborated in future installments.
What is this about Satanel using time loops? I don't remember that even from KKK's description of his world. Multiverse has shit to do with Satanel's wishes, it is a side effect of Astaroth, which basically introduced the possibility of universes outside of the Throne existing, which is just ONE of the factors that leads to Mercurius. Whether it was just the paradox or Mercurius himself that created all of that is not clear as of now. More on this in a future Third Shinza story.
Throne is by its nature the nucleous of past, present and future, time doesn't exist there, it's nothing related to Satanel. Satanel's action affected nothing in Mithra's world and... what's this about Ahura Mazda going from medieval era to space fights "for no reason"? The reason for this was explained even before Avesta released, Khvarenah disseminated artifacts that allowed for planetary teleportation, and later on, the Yazata begin to use Vohu Manah's blessing to do so, after the original Wahman Yast was devoured by the Star Cluster of Extinction. Development level is still middle ages tier, there are no space ships anywhere, nor Overtechnology aside from Khvarenah's literal shit, which includes stuff like makeshift Nasu style Holy Grails, living automata with universe wide telepathy, super armor/swords and time stopping devices. Wahman Yast have more tech development than usual, having guns even at their disposal, but they lost mostly everyone who knew how to operate their most advanced technology.
Man, Masada was right about having to clarify it. People still keep confusing the world born from Mithra's Law, Ahura Mazda (First Shinza), still mostly medieval despite the fact that the Ashavan/Dragvant war is fought across the entire universe, with the now revealed Event Horizon Warfront Aditya, which is the Pre-Throne Era and the world Mithra and Naraka lived in. Which was an all out universal scale war with spaceships and super technology.
And why would it reveal shit too early? Avesta is only 3 chapters long by now, we don't know what's it going to reveal.
No, it was a single line and we know what he did to become God from Paradise Lost itself, which is the story of the end of Muzan's universe and its replacement by Myoujou's. He had Ast use her Astaroth equation willingly to erase himself from the timestream, thus erasing his incredibly heavy Sin and allowing him to use the Tree of Sephirot (bypassing Singularity it seems) to rise up to the Throne after rewriting his existence. Saoshyant Desatir basically reveals he retconned Muzan and his era out of existence via lolscience, as he literally has no chance against Mags in a fight involving martial prowess (thus making him the only undefeated God ever).
This thing about decrease in human progress in Satanel's era is literally fanfiction, as what we see in its earliest stages is literally at the same stage of development as Paradise Lost's Sodom, with a working cinema industry even. KKK's VFB describes it as an "ancient myth" era, and Satanel is described as machine-like God, with great focus on science. His universe updates as if it were a computer. There's literally no indication of it being less advanced (similarly, Hajun's world had so low a progress rate because people are selfish ***** who don't share inventions or cooperate for greater progress, not from civilizational collapse or whatever, which was something that happened in Muzan's world).
The reasons for Mercurius' existence are left vague so as to be developed in further installments, likely the Third Shinza installment. The paradox method is just one of them, others are stuff related to the updating system of Satanel's world and contradictions inherent to it. By defining ignorance as the source of Evil (Sin), which had to be eliminated to succeed in its absolute purification, Satanel's upgrades created a world of omniscience, that generated a Craving for the unknown (sounds familiar?) as a reaction. Similarly, bugs in his system such as the Gommorah (of which we know shit about) began appearing, Shamash still have problems dating to Paradise Lost, etc. This stuff is inherent to Zoar, so updating cannot eliminate them, so Satanel simply resigned his post for Mercurius to take. As I said, Saoshyant Desatir left this vague enough to be seriously elaborated in future installments.
What is this about Satanel using time loops? I don't remember that even from KKK's description of his world. Multiverse has shit to do with Satanel's wishes, it is a side effect of Astaroth, which basically introduced the possibility of universes outside of the Throne existing, which is just ONE of the factors that leads to Mercurius. Whether it was just the paradox or Mercurius himself that created all of that is not clear as of now. More on this in a future Third Shinza story.
Throne is by its nature the nucleous of past, present and future, time doesn't exist there, it's nothing related to Satanel. Satanel's action affected nothing in Mithra's world and... what's this about Ahura Mazda going from medieval era to space fights "for no reason"? The reason for this was explained even before Avesta released, Khvarenah disseminated artifacts that allowed for planetary teleportation, and later on, the Yazata begin to use Vohu Manah's blessing to do so, after the original Wahman Yast was devoured by the Star Cluster of Extinction. Development level is still middle ages tier, there are no space ships anywhere, nor Overtechnology aside from Khvarenah's literal shit, which includes stuff like makeshift Nasu style Holy Grails, living automata with universe wide telepathy, super armor/swords and time stopping devices. Wahman Yast have more tech development than usual, having guns even at their disposal, but they lost mostly everyone who knew how to operate their most advanced technology.
Man, Masada was right about having to clarify it. People still keep confusing the world born from Mithra's Law, Ahura Mazda (First Shinza), still mostly medieval despite the fact that the Ashavan/Dragvant war is fought across the entire universe, with the now revealed Event Horizon Warfront Aditya, which is the Pre-Throne Era and the world Mithra and Naraka lived in. Which was an all out universal scale war with spaceships and super technology.
And why would it reveal shit too early? Avesta is only 3 chapters long by now, we don't know what's it going to reveal.
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I will believe that once i actually see a multiverse in that classic sense, not just random mentions of it. i await until we see alternatve versions of existing characters or adequately shown examples of alternate timelines. (as in, in a way that people can point to one and go "this is the way that this timeline is different from the one we know")Trexalfa29 said:
until then, i am gonna stick with the "everything is pre-determined from the time you are born and you have no freedom" time loop worldbuilding that came from Merc's own mouth at the start of DI and hammered in time and time again throughout the entire story and that still hasnt been retconned considering that Rein in Pantheon was still complaining about it.
not to mention shit that heavily discredits multiverse theory such as Shirou knowing the timeline and events to such a precise degree from foreknowledge that he can dodge tens of thousands of projectiles, each with a 1 in a 100 thousand chance of survivability, meaning he casually achieved a dodging feat with a 1/ (100^3)^1000 % chance because "lol, i already experienced this before"
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Shiori own ability is testament of multiverse existing since she's summoning alternate variations of hersrlf whom, as stated, not copies of herself but genuine versions
KKK also mentions that Merc expanded territory from singular universe to multiverse
KKK also mentions that Merc expanded territory from singular universe to multiverse
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Oh enlighten me, how are you gonna SEE a multiverse like that when all we have are VNs, which rely on text? Kek. The bit about the multiverse is repeated through KKK anytime Mercury gets explained, the fight against Hajun Yakou witnessed while taking a dive through Singularity showed the annihilation of multiple universes because of the pressure of the warring Gods, Hajun speaking when the Shokou Mandala crew got to the Throne annihilated countless universes. Kouha again repeats it in Saoshyant Desatir, Masada said it in QnA sessions before KKK released, and Dies irae (which you have no excuse of not knowing about, unlike other stuff) mentions multiverse many times in Mitsudomoe. Please, do enlighten all of us. Why do you think the cimentation of multiverse as CANON to Shinza are "random mentions"? Aside from willful ignorance, I mean.
Shirou can do all of that due to the fact the future is predetermined, that hasn't changed, idiot. It's just that it is the entire multiverse that loops in Shinza, not the universe. The timeloop is not NEET waving his hand then a single universe resets. It's based on the fact Snake's death is also his birth, his Atziluth is reinvigorated as he dies and he emanates ALL OF EXISTENCE at his point of death. Which reset all of creation, logically. Shirou also has the luck he has because he's Ren's Apoptosis, and the plot is going to bend over to prevent his death as much as possible (and if Ren were a God, he'd be immortal period), this is a canon power he has. No wonder Masada and fans christened this "Invincibility Mode". Plus, it is predetermined to a fault, if not, Routes wouldn't exist. Mercurius leaves stuff to chance for his own amusement.
Also, fun fact, timelines are distinct from universes in Shinza. Each universe has infinite timelines, as proven by the Distortions of both Shiori (confirmation of infinite possible presents for a single universe) and Ryuusui (confirms infinite possible futures for a single universe). Mercurius' explanation in KKK makes it clear: all of creation went from 1 universe-1 timeline, to infinite universe-addition of past, present, and future timelines to the equation, which are each infinite as confirmed by the workings of Dharani Marici and Foresight.
Shirou can do all of that due to the fact the future is predetermined, that hasn't changed, idiot. It's just that it is the entire multiverse that loops in Shinza, not the universe. The timeloop is not NEET waving his hand then a single universe resets. It's based on the fact Snake's death is also his birth, his Atziluth is reinvigorated as he dies and he emanates ALL OF EXISTENCE at his point of death. Which reset all of creation, logically. Shirou also has the luck he has because he's Ren's Apoptosis, and the plot is going to bend over to prevent his death as much as possible (and if Ren were a God, he'd be immortal period), this is a canon power he has. No wonder Masada and fans christened this "Invincibility Mode". Plus, it is predetermined to a fault, if not, Routes wouldn't exist. Mercurius leaves stuff to chance for his own amusement.
Also, fun fact, timelines are distinct from universes in Shinza. Each universe has infinite timelines, as proven by the Distortions of both Shiori (confirmation of infinite possible presents for a single universe) and Ryuusui (confirms infinite possible futures for a single universe). Mercurius' explanation in KKK makes it clear: all of creation went from 1 universe-1 timeline, to infinite universe-addition of past, present, and future timelines to the equation, which are each infinite as confirmed by the workings of Dharani Marici and Foresight.
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"Why do you think the cimentation of multiverse as CANON to Shinza are "random mentions"? Aside from willful ignorance, I mean. "
the fact that Merc, Shirou and Rein contradict those notions dozens of times over in Dies Irae.
"Oh enlighten me, how are you gonna SEE a multiverse like that when all we have are VNs, which rely on text? Kek. "
i point you to either Tokyo Babel actually explaining its multiverse in the first hour of the story or things like Archer in FSN being a proven alternate version of the MC.
"Also, fun fact, timelines are distinct from universes in Shinza. Each universe has infinite timelines, as proven by the Distortions of both Shiori (confirmation of infinite possible presents for a single universe) and Ryuusui (confirms infinite possible futures for a single universe)"
you do realize that having multiple infinite possible futures is not the same as having infinite self-sustaining paralel timelines right? what, you have never seen series in which "oh man, i can see all possibilities but only one will be the canon one when it comes down to the wire, so i better make sure i play my cards right so that i dont end up in the infinite timelines where i get butfucked"? because the number of those stories are as numerous as the stars in the sky.
also, for Throne "feats"
yeeeeeeah... this is the same author that cranks flowery language up to 11000 whenever you get to the throne fight lest you forget. do I have to bring up the infamous instance of "souls" being called "stars" a thousand times over when fighting Merc (with only 3 or 4 times it being elaborated that those "stars" are actually souls), or him saying that his "multiverse" is as big as a normal grand cross times a billion? i am not about to take some random statements you pull from a story i cant read at face value, especially when Masada has shown me that he cant be trusted with the validity of his cherrypicked statements (that you all like to use for your page yet the story itself horribly debunks) 1000 times over in DI alone. for all i know, all of that "destruction of paralel universes" could mean was Hajun denying the possibility of some realities to come to fruition, which Hadou gods, especially Merc, have been shown to do.
so quick question. if Merc denies Hajun the possibility to come into existence and therefore eliminating all his possible timelines, do you count that as Merc destroying infinite universes and infinite Hajuns with infinite Taikyouku as if it was a fight / DC feat?
the fact that Merc, Shirou and Rein contradict those notions dozens of times over in Dies Irae.
"Oh enlighten me, how are you gonna SEE a multiverse like that when all we have are VNs, which rely on text? Kek. "
i point you to either Tokyo Babel actually explaining its multiverse in the first hour of the story or things like Archer in FSN being a proven alternate version of the MC.
"Also, fun fact, timelines are distinct from universes in Shinza. Each universe has infinite timelines, as proven by the Distortions of both Shiori (confirmation of infinite possible presents for a single universe) and Ryuusui (confirms infinite possible futures for a single universe)"
you do realize that having multiple infinite possible futures is not the same as having infinite self-sustaining paralel timelines right? what, you have never seen series in which "oh man, i can see all possibilities but only one will be the canon one when it comes down to the wire, so i better make sure i play my cards right so that i dont end up in the infinite timelines where i get butfucked"? because the number of those stories are as numerous as the stars in the sky.
also, for Throne "feats"
yeeeeeeah... this is the same author that cranks flowery language up to 11000 whenever you get to the throne fight lest you forget. do I have to bring up the infamous instance of "souls" being called "stars" a thousand times over when fighting Merc (with only 3 or 4 times it being elaborated that those "stars" are actually souls), or him saying that his "multiverse" is as big as a normal grand cross times a billion? i am not about to take some random statements you pull from a story i cant read at face value, especially when Masada has shown me that he cant be trusted with the validity of his cherrypicked statements (that you all like to use for your page yet the story itself horribly debunks) 1000 times over in DI alone. for all i know, all of that "destruction of paralel universes" could mean was Hajun denying the possibility of some realities to come to fruition, which Hadou gods, especially Merc, have been shown to do.
so quick question. if Merc denies Hajun the possibility to come into existence and therefore eliminating all his possible timelines, do you count that as Merc destroying infinite universes and infinite Hajuns with infinite Taikyouku as if it was a fight / DC feat?
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>Still cherrypicking and looking away from the evidence you don't want to see.
>Still making up contradictions where there aren't.
>Still bringing to table limit, absurd cases no sane writer would contemplate.
You know what? I'm gonna let someone else do this. Don't have enough energy to do this.
You can still go on with your headcanon of Shinza being a single planet, continuing with your thought processes of ignoring anything not within the bounds of your extremely cherrypicky interpretation of Dies irae.
>Still making up contradictions where there aren't.
>Still bringing to table limit, absurd cases no sane writer would contemplate.
You know what? I'm gonna let someone else do this. Don't have enough energy to do this.
You can still go on with your headcanon of Shinza being a single planet, continuing with your thought processes of ignoring anything not within the bounds of your extremely cherrypicky interpretation of Dies irae.
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Case by case basis I presume. Mercurius is hinted to have gone through the entire "let there be light" scenario, but Paralost's Gaia is the corpse of the Star Cluster of Extinction which dates back to the previous universe, Sakuya and Keishirou don't die in the transition from Tengu Dou to Yaoyorozu despite being normal humans, and some geographical landmarks from Marie's world, not saved by Ren, seem to have survived the transition to Hajun's world IIRC. On the other hand, Marie's take over in Rea's Route seems to recreate the universe all over again, while in her own Route this doesn't seem to be the case at all (but that part is hazy for me).Makkurona said:
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To me they take over the previous universe and paint the things they don't like or in the case of Merc straight up make everything from the beginning
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Doubt I will, have no means to get it actually. But I hope I can get my hands on the scans soon after the Comiket day.
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What are the Kanji for Kajiri Kamui Kagura?
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I have no wordsZouken said:
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GogitoQ already gave him the kanji for that above.SleepyTBubble said:
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Summing up (Masada had to explain all of this in an interview):Makkurona said:
þÑ×ÕÆÆ (Kajiri)- Literally Divine Curse/Spell. It symbolizes the power contained within a God's name. This is played straight in KKK's story, the Kajiri (true names, they are outright called so) of the Yatsukahagi's significance in the plot.
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And what do the kanji in the senshinkan series mean?
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good to know this fandom's skill at projecting their actions and insecurities unto others hasn't changed. (wonder how the other fandoms in this gag tier wiki are doing) (you do know that you guys are a constant gag for most of the debating communities outside of this page, right?)Trexalfa29 said:
i dont ignore or cherypick evidence. i look at all evidence and dont forget any unlike you people, who willingly ignore information in your scaling in favour of your own cherrypicked statements. at best you can accuse me of not valuing all info equally but that is because i give more weight to actually executed concepts in a story rather than just mentioned but not executed concepts.
also "no sane writer would contemplate" accusations...boy do I have a half a mile long list of insane authors for you if that is your standard to judge someone's sanity on.
"You can still go on with your headcanon of Shinza being a single planet". prior to Avesta could you name any other planets that were confirmed to be under the influence of hadou gods, via showing interactions of humans with said planets or its native specimens? now we can. previously we couldn't. what? you dont know of planet sized /contained realities / multiverses? molecule man can show that shit to you in a box.
"ignoring anything not within the bounds of your extremely cherrypicky interpretation of Dies irae."...so, acnowledging / prioritising the massive bulk of the story that constantly hammered in its concepts and worldbuilding? well, excuuuuuuseeeee meeeee for that level of "cherrypicking"
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>More tryhard E-tough guy bullshit.
You are not even good at it. BTW, next you bring up an example of a series that supposedly proves the "existence of their multiverse", try for it not to be something like Tokyo Babel, a game that takes place in the aforementioned structure, in Hell, Heaven and Metatron's Future realm at most, but never proves the existence of a multiverse beyond pretty CGs, because Setsuna and co never, ever interact with any parallel universes. Just pointing this out cause I thought it was funny, all of your other points don't even deserve addressing.
I'm smelling so many double standards here it is beyond hilarious.
You are not even good at it. BTW, next you bring up an example of a series that supposedly proves the "existence of their multiverse", try for it not to be something like Tokyo Babel, a game that takes place in the aforementioned structure, in Hell, Heaven and Metatron's Future realm at most, but never proves the existence of a multiverse beyond pretty CGs, because Setsuna and co never, ever interact with any parallel universes. Just pointing this out cause I thought it was funny, all of your other points don't even deserve addressing.
I'm smelling so many double standards here it is beyond hilarious.
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