Masadaverse Discussion Thread 24

[PsychoWarper]

So no you didnt good to know.

I dont have to prove shit you, the burden of proof is on you, this has already been argued on actual threads so go find those if you wanna see the scans.

 

[Dysmity]

Citation needed for Dies Irae establishing singularity as a colorless Taiji realm where all of creation is mixed together from past to future. Also about how they can create concepts and laws from it and also as a place.

Citation needed about Dies Irae mentioning origins of the Throne, its initial properties pre-Mercurius, then post-Mercurius. And also about how it has a defense mechanism for non godhood beings and how it stores previous Throne's God and their laws and that the current Throne God can use them

And oh, as you mentioned, in Marie Route

Be sure to not include the Extra story from Marie route since that was added after the release of Kajiri Kamui Kagura

I can agree that Throne was an established thing from the beginning (albeit it was expanded a lot in K3). So are the nature of Gods (albeit we never knew some stuff like a drop of their blood containing as much weight as a celestial body) Very skeptical about the other things you mentionned)

Mind you. You yourself did not bother to show the origin of your sources. I see no reason to continue debating with someone like you if you're not gonna bother sourcing your claims (scans or links)

Edit: Also for the records, there was a recent thread made to ban Masadaverse matchups until this cosmology is properly fixed. Which a group of people are already working on it.

It's not something you'd expect to be made magically in two days or three as they have lives outside of the wiki.

 

[Embracetophats]

So no you didnt good to know.
I dont have to prove shit you, so the burden of proof is on you, this has already been argued on actual threads so go find those if you wanna see the scans.

This type of attitude makes this page useless as a whole.


If your attitude is "go find the info yourself" then it would be better just to go to forums (hey at least they have sources and evidence). If all you contribute is unproven rethoric with no good evidence to back it up, why do you exist?


And no, you may not have to prove anything to me, but you do have to prove it to your readers and page visitors

 

[Embracetophats]

So no you didnt good to know.
I dont have to prove shit you, the burden of proof is on you, this has already been argued on actual threads so go find those if you wanna see the scans.

"I dont have to give evidence because i say this has been discussed. You are the one that needs to prove that what i said isnt true despite me giving no evidence"


Glad to see nothing has changed here in 2 years. When you dont have the evidence, you ask people to prove negatives and disprove concepts that havent even been proven to begin with

 

[PsychoWarper]

I exist because two human beings breed creating me.

And listen you havnt provided a single ******* scan backing up a single thing youve said since the whole argument about removing Reinhards resistance to EE so dont go getting all butt hurt cause im giving you the same treatment.

And why do you exist? To ask a bunch of questions then ignore any evidence someone provided to support their claim while posting no evidence to support anything you say?

 

[PsychoWarper]

"I dont have to give evidence because i say this has been discussed. You are the one that needs to prove that what i said isnt true despite me giving no evidence"


Glad to see nothing has changed here in 2 years. When you dont have the evidence, you ask people to prove negatives and disprove concepts that havent even been proven to begin with

Except I do have evidence, its on the threads that you seem to be refusing to look for.

 

[Embracetophats]

1- last time i tried to post sources, this very page blocked my post. Blame it on the software


2- i am using concepts we are all familiar with since we read and officially translated novel. Do you seriously need sources for information so widespread? Apart from those, i am quoting your own character entries and the last bits are easily searcheable concepts of khabalah (the page doesnt let me post links for some reason and blocks my whole post) and stuff coming from the mouth of Revenger, the OG DI translator from the masadaverse respect thread on spacebattleforums

 

[Dysmity]

1. Imgur is an option. Gyazo is an option

2. So no proof. Reason why am i asking is because i never saw them. Unless we read two different novels. Also...Revenger... This makes all sense now

 

[Embracetophats]

Good chirst you dont seem to understand basic human interactions and conversations


"You" as in the page, not "you" as a person. How do you take this the wrong way? Are you an AI bot to confused me addressing a page and a URL for me addressing an individual?


"Ignore all evidence", me? That is low. Show me the evidence and i wont deny it. Provide a link to the threads even. Heck, i am not even attacking anyone. I am giving you advice on how to built the masadaverse explanation page as well as a solid standard of evidence to help make your case more solid.

Look, i tried to look for the evidence. Saw no threads thst contained it. If i was willing to do the search and didnt find it, there is no way most readers will find it. This attitude creates an internal club rather than a wiki where a few hoard all the info and provide no info to anyone else reading the regular pages

 

[Embracetophats]

1. Imgur is an option. Gyazo is an option
2. So no proof. Reason why am i asking is because i never saw them. Unless we read two different novels. Also...Revenger... This makes all sense now

You got a problem with the man?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Whos dat?

 

[Dysmity]

No no it's nothing. You can continue one.

 

[Embracetophats]

@Dysmity


I dont get what you mean.


I mentioned the Marie route. Scans shouldnt be required since this is a DI forum, especially since we are discussing just verse concepts.


Plug in the 4 stages of ewigkeit on google for the sephiroth thing.


Your own pages on the paradise lost angels talk about higher dimensional manipulation


The last bit is just another forum thst discusses masadaverse stuff. Do you seriously need me to refference forums for something as casual as discussing verse concepts? Even if i did, would you be willing to accept them as proof to begin with?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>The last bit is just another forum thst discusses masadaverse stuff. Do you seriously need me to refference forums for something as casual as discussing verse concepts?

Yet you are asking for scans of stuff…

 

[Embracetophats]

And listen you havnt provided a single ******* scan backing up a single thing youve said since the whole argument about removing Reinhards resistance to EE so dont go getting all butt hurt cause im giving you the same treatment.

1- this is the source of your attitude? Were you that emotioanlly invested on the issue?


2- what "argument"? I wrote one post with scans, said like 6 words and left and didnt come back

 

[Dysmity]

I never mentionned the paradise lost nor the four stages of ewigkeit.

You ask us for citations when we mention shit (well when you directed it to me, i did post atwiki links) yet you actually have the gal to post stuff and then act as if source is unimportant. More so when you specifically mentionned a route that, afaik, never stated the stuff i said. So scans of Marie route are highly appreciated because it will confirm that i was indeed blind to some shit

Edit: a bit of my mistake for being this angry so i apologize for that. But my stance won't change. I want some citations/sources. I'll be off for now

 

[Embracetophats]

>The last bit is just another forum thst discusses masadaverse stuff. Do you seriously need me to refference forums for something as casual as discussing verse concepts?
Yet you are asking for scans of stuff…

Good christ...


Do you not understand the difference between casual conversation and presenting an argument with evidence to expose information to the public?


If i talk to you and i tell you i had a coffee after lunch, will you ask me for a receipt in order to believe what i said?


By contrast


If i am accused of tresspassing, will you believe me if i just said i didnt or would i need an alibi?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>Good christ...

Indeed…

 

[Embracetophats]

I never mentionned the paradise lost nor the four stages of ewigkeit.
You ask us for citations when we mention shit (well when you directed it to me, i did post atwiki links) yet you actually have the gal to post stuff and then act as if source is unimportant. More so when you specifically mentionned a route that, afaik, never stated the stuff i said. So scans of Marie route are highly appreciated because it will confirm that i was indeed blind to some shit

I am making casual conversation. I am not trying to win an argument or overly convince someone.


Do i NEED to show you scans of Merc wanting to give the throne to Marie?


I didnt say DI irae explained what the throne was or how it functioned. Just that it refferenced its existence


I didnt say DI explained what the singularity was, just that it was shown for the first time in that work.


You are trying to read too much into casual conversation

 

[Embracetophats]

>Good christ...
Indeed…

I swear this is like you asking me to explain the origins and all the logi and the original creator of a meme if i post a DI variation of the same.


Imagine asking me to give you a lecture on the "chad vs virgin" meme if i posted a "virgin trifa vs chad rein" meme. This is the sort of attitudr you are having.


Casual conversation isnt trying to win an argument. Relax man

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>Casual conversation isnt trying to win an argument. Relax man

*looks at all previous posts*

…I think you are the one who needs to relax and stop trying to win an argument. I haven't even posted some form of argument or something like that.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

And preferibly stop quoting every single bit of text and spacing your comments like that. It makes the thread longer and take way more time loading, which is an unnecessary shore.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

It gets even worse in shitry phones like mine and that's without adding my shitty internet

 

[PsychoWarper]

1- this is the source of your attitude? Were you that emotioanlly invested on the issue?


2- what "argument"? I wrote one post with scans, said like 6 words and left and didnt come back

No the debate where Reinhard lost his EE is not why im in a bad mood (hell doesnt have to much to do with anything on this wiki) my issue is you've been asking for citations and evidence for things while not providing any yourself, and as Dysmity there are other ways to post scans here.

Nothing about this seems casual this seems like you're questioning everything about the Shinza gods tiering and trying to get them downgraded (thats how it seems at least) but if your intention was a simple casual conversation then sorry for getting so nippy.

As for the Masadaverse explanation page and such that's actually being worked on now, thats why we asked for a ban on for Masada matches so we could focus on revising the verse and one of the top priorities is the explanation page which is garbage.

 

[Dysmity]

You first mentionned your doubt about Kajiri Kamui Kagura being the center of Shinza cosmology revelation and info dump (let's be honest it ******* is.) by stating that Marie Route and Paradise Lost already established the terminologies and the universe of Shinza. Then you say it just mentions them and that they are explained at KKK. What you're doing here is contradicting yourself.

Moreover, throughout the discussions you've always exclaimed citations to be brought to you but when we ask for them? You give us some petty excuse. Speaking of this, last thread, you posted scans of Machina vs Ren. I can't help but not believe in what you're saying.

Never asked for a scan showing Merc desiring to guve Throne yo Marie. You're dodging the main argument. You stated a specific thing and i want a definitive proof of that thing.

Anyway i'll be off for real now.

 

[Embracetophats]

1- this is the source of your attitude? Were you that emotioanlly invested on the issue?


2- what "argument"? I wrote one post with scans, said like 6 words and left and didnt come back

No the debate where Reinhard lost his EE is not why im in a bad mood (hell doesnt have to much to do with anything on this wiki) my issue is you've been asking for citations and evidence for things while not providing any yourself, and as Dysmity there are other ways to post scans here.
Nothing about this seems casual this seems like you're questioning everything about the Shinza gods tiering and trying to get them downgraded (thats how it seems at least) but if your intention was a simple casual conversation then sorry for getting so nippy.

As for the Masadaverse explanation page and such that's actually being worked on now, thats why we asked for a ban on for Masada matches so we could focus on revising the verse and one of the top priorities is the explanation page which is garbage.


Downgrades and upgrades are based on evidence.


Show the evidence on the explanation page and we can look at the issue once that is done.


If the evidence isnt solid, i may ask for a downgrade. If it is solid, i wont.


And questioning all things is the basis for human intellect, as far as i am concerned

 

[Embracetophats]

You first mentionned your doubt about Kajiri Kamui Kagura being the center of Shinza cosmology revelation and info dump (let's be honest it ******* is.) by stating that Marie Route and Paradise Lost already established the terminologies and the universe of Shinza. Then you say it just mentions them and that they are explained at KKK. What you're doing here is contradicting yourself.
Moreover, throughout the discussions you've always exclaimed citations to be brought to you but when we ask for them? You give us some petty excuse. Speaking of this, last thread, you posted scans of Machina vs Ren. I can't help but not believe in what you're saying.

Never asked for a scan showing Merc desiring to guve Throne yo Marie. You're dodging the main argument. You stated a specific thing and i want a definitive proof of that thing.

Anyway i'll be off for real now.

Maybe i aint so picky on stuff because i am not trying to make powerlevel claims but rather just making casual conversation?

Anyway, here is something on SIN and how it connects those that have them to the throne, to give me evidence for my claim on dust angels

https://w.atwiki.jp/god14/pages/227.html

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am gonna be honest, you may be saying you are doing casual conversation but it feels like anything BUT casual conversation. The fact that 2 - 3 people reacted as they did should be proof of this.

Also, again, don't quote every message, less so when they are so big. It slows the page loading and makes the thread annoyingly long and cumbersome to navigate.

Also, you... really don't get to ask for anything, to be very blunt. You are free to try a CRT, but you'll be rebuffed if you try one about something already discussed at length without bringing anything new, or if you just start downgrade out of nowhere because one user couldn't satisfy the answer you wanted.

 

[Warren_Valion]

What the **** is going on here?

First of all, PsychoWarper, please calm down, mate - there is no need to get that angry.

Second of all, Embracetophats, you are straw-manning me, I specifically stated that a person's opinion is not what is relevant in tiering, but logic and consistency.

That example that I gave shows a scenario where if you apply logic use consistency to ignore outliers, you get a specific tiering - and that this apporach is the most accurate way of tiering as it is what we do here on the wiki. It has nothing to do with my own personal desires, its about trying to be as accurate as possible with the work given to us.

To act like outliers don't exist is incredibly facetious, and isn't how this site, or any other vs debating site works.

Also, "casual conversation" does not include ad hominems and demands.


And finally, for the love everything holy on the face of this Earth - fix your spacing and don't quote huge bodies of text, before you comment. (That second part also applies to you as well PsychoWarper) As not doing both of those things will artifically increase the size of the thread and slows the thread down significantly.

I am tired of asking you to do this. It isn't hard, and I won't do it for you as I am not your mother - I don't have to clean up after you.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yeah as I said I got way to angry and I apologise, I had just got done driving and some things had made me mad and it carried on over here but that isnt an excuse for losing it so bad.

Once again sorry.

 

[Ravenous4th]

@Embrace

>Based on evidence

There are plenty of evidence out there - those present in both CRT and discussion threads that you didn't even bother looking for.

You look for evidence, which are all from K3, yet you are here, denying the fact that K3 is the main source of "lol Wan Ei" stuffs. I'm pretty sure that's now how someone who wants to have a casual conversation would act.

You aren't being skeptical, you are being ignorant.

Yes, the Explanation Page is shitty, we all know that. That's why I made CRT for two sections of it in the first place. Merely bringing it up in a thread won't magically get the revisions done. Finally, you might want to fix your spacing. It is extremely irritating.

 

[Infera28]

@Embracetophats1- it stated Throne is source of the all creation and beyond singularity which exists beyond all creation and is a pure dimensionless colorless blank zone

2- becoming a Throne Master is same as transcending anything and everything that will be including infinite concepts and laws in creation.

3- Ren demanded power from Throne and then was capable of freezing 1-A Gladshiem and recieved comparable power with it

4- also didn't Mercurius erased Hajun by Throne and was capable of defeating him by it?

so Yeah Throne is 1-A.

ps: i disagree with using cross scaling Reinhard to Amakasu's Gods. that contradicts Novel and is inconsistent to it and also death of author fallacy.

 

[PsychoWarper]

A thread about said cross scaling will be made at some point since alot of people dislike it and dont agree with it.

 

[Embracetophats]

the terms "transcending anything and everything" doesnt garantee 1-A mate, because you can say the same from the perspective of a regular person and a regular higher dimensional being.

precise loredumps are required, not just flowery language

 

[Matteste]

Infera28, maybe a slight correction on point 3. Gladsheim had yet to emante as only 7 swastikas where open at that point, so no 1-A yet. It seems that what the text means is that Ren craved for more power, something Mercurius then obliged with, turning Ren's Creation Figment into a hybrid type with power comparable to that of Gladsheim.

 

[Embracetophats]

@Embrace
>Based on evidence

There are plenty of evidence out there - those present in both CRT and discussion threads that you didn't even bother looking for.

i just went through several extra threads on the topic, including Evil Mega Cookie posting raws and translations. nowhere in those is the notion that the throne is above dimensions is clarified or even hinted at.

in short, you are lacking evidence. at the best possible scenario, you are asking people to take your personal interpretatio of a religious concept at face value.


also:

"Twenty-four dimensional barrier that protected from all sides. The absolute defence able to redirect every attack. This was what Yakou created between him and Ootake.

Overly excessive protection. Even one tenth of that would've been enough to stop the attack from Kamunagara before.

Extremely fast mantra reminding of a scream. Along with applying the toughest defence, Yakou retreated by teleportation. Even if that would make him a coward, Madara Yakou had no other choice. But honestly, he haven't knew why he acted that way.

It felt like it was the most suitable action, but at the same time, absolutely meaningless.

Ootake: Useless.

All that defence was just like a thin paper. Each hit to the barrier from that steel fist beared enough power to crush the mountains just by the heath of the impact, and it crushed the defence easily.

An iron hammer that penetrated, not minding what was before him — with that complete extinction going forward, there was no time to defend.

And so, without any means for defence...

Ootake: I will teach you the lesson. Be aware of death.

With the ruthless words, a single lethal hit reached the Yakou's heart.

Yakou: O-o-oh…

In a single moment, his existence was broken and turned into the sand."


A- he says that 1 tenth of a 24D barrier should be enough to stop anything. that means he believes 2.4D barriers can stop 3D attacks. he doesnt seem to be working on the basis of dimensional superiority


B- how does one surround himself on all sides with a 24D barrier and still achieves 3D spatial teleportation? seems iffy


C- it is stated that the power to crush mountains is what broke the shield, not taikyouku. so Kamui Kagura seemingly operates by the logic that force >> dimensional tiering.


D- at best you can also argue that it was machina's special power that did it, but taikyoku isnt mentioned regardless

 

[SleepyTBubble]

@Dysmity, @Warren, @Ravenous, @Psycho

Y'all shut the fork up or daddy ALRF will spank your asses when i come.

@Embrace

Go make a new thead and post your shit about you doubting 1-A Masada This is anything but casual convo and will continue in a perpetual cycle of back and forth talking. Thank you very much for your cooperation

Daddy ALRF is out

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

2.4D Shinza bois, time to downgrade everything \:v/

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Woohoo, I've escaped threats of spankitude.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Because you were a good boi. Be a bad one and i will find you and do unspeakable horrors to you.

My eyes are everywhere so i cannot be deceived stares