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Marvel Comics God-Tier Speed Upgrades

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That would be very appreciated. Thank you.
 
I seem to recall that Quicksilver is usually treated as having superior combat speed to several of the characters currently rated as MFTL+, but do not remember specifics.
 
I dunno. Perhaps a compromise? FTL+ (reasons reasons); Likely MFTL+ (scaling scaling)

Then again, this was what we used the last time, though the circumstances differ. I guess I'm going neutral with this.
 
FTL for travel speed, and MFTL+ for combat speed?
 
Anyway, I adjusted the Marvel Character Statistics Scaling page speed explanation.
 
That compromise that Gemmy gave sounds like a good idea...unless Matt or Xcano or anyone objects to it?
 
Antvasima said:
@CrossverseCrisis & Howard Thank you very much for all of the help.
@Matthew & LordXcano I would appreciate if you could check up that the adjusted profiles look alright. Thanks.
Click to expand...
These weren't changed, although some could've been for a reason:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Apocalypse_(Marvel_Comics)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/A-Bomb

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hercules_(Marvel_Comics)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Scarlet_Witch

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Destroyer_(Marvel)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Quicksilver_(Marvel_Comics)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Blackheart_(Marvel_Comics)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Hunger

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Vulcan_(Marvel_Comics)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Quasar

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cul_Borso

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hope_Summers
 
Cropfist said:
He can keep up with Thor.
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So can spiderman. I recall many comics where spiderman is faster than hulk. Why is spiderman being ftl outlier but hulk not? Hulk is generally treated a slower character like juggernaut
 
Personally, I too have some gripes with MFTL+ Hulk.

While Hulk is generally portrayed as leagues above anyone he fights except Thor (Hence why I agree with SS system level Hulk), speedwise he is generally portrayed to be significantly lower than most of his enemies. (The Spiderman example for one, not to mention countless times he was beaten because of the speed gap, mostly by other heroes).
 
I also think Hulk isn't MFTL+. IIRC his best combat speed feats are catching a tank shell and grabbing a supersonic missile, although he couldn't grab the other missile so that would imply that's nearing his limit.
 
@LordXcano

Thank you very much for the list, although I do not think that we can give Scarlet Witch and Hope Summers more than Unknown ratings.

@All

I am uncertain about the Hulk. He can consistently keep up with other powerhouses, such as Sentry, Thor, Hyperion, and Gladiator, in terms of combat speed, but is extremely inconsistent in other respects.

Then again, so is Thor, in terms of being blitzed by Wolverine, and Mongoose, and most of the characters on these lists also have no individual speed feats to speak of.

Basically, it would likely look weird if we singled out the Hulk. However, it might be an idea to use "Unknown. Possibly Massively FTL+ combat speed at his/her peak" for both him and similar characters.
 
@Antvasma- Thing is, Thor has his own MFTL+ feats. Thor doesn't scale from anybody, nor he needs to be. Silver Surfer also has tons and tons of MFTL+ feats. Hulk doesn't. Forget MFTL+, Hulk barely has any FTL feats at all. Hulk is powerscaled from all these people but unlike the rest Hulk is only comparable in AP and durability.

And yes, Spiderman IS portrayed as faster than Hulk in most comics. He regularly toys around with Hulk and gets tagged when Spidey gets reckless. Hulk is no speedster, he is famous for being slow. Hulk being faster than Spidey makes no sense, it's not the case nor it meant to be. Hulk is no different from other top tiers like Juggernaut who is also bulky but slow. They react to whomever necessary due to plot. Point is, Thor and others have their own MFTL+ feats and they don't need scaling. If Hulk gets MFTL+ then Spiderman should as well. Their attack potency should not matter
 
Well, then we need to downgrade the speeds of an awful lot of the above characters to Unknown ratings, given that they also have no individual speed feats, and that the Hulk has consistently kept up with most of them.

He is only presented as slow when compared with much weaker characters, to avoid instant kills, but then that is not different from how Thor, the Surfer, and all other high-tiers are treated.
 
Basically, to keep things simple, we agreed to scale the high-tier superhumans from Thor, the mid-tiers from Spider-Man, and the low-tiers from the Black Panther. If we start to mess with that structure, our entire house of cards starts to fall apart, as neither Marvel nor DC remotely make any sense in this regard.
 
Why does speed need to be upgraded in accordance to attack potency? They're not dependent on each other. Hulk might be a top tier in AP but he's no better than any mid tier in speed (Iron Man, Quicksilver, Spiderman etc). I think we need to be more flexible here. However I stand corrected that Hulk is not faster than Spiderman, and scaling AP shouldn't reflect on speed on this matter. We can possibly try to evaluatr case by case basis or go by individual feats. Mass scaling from long running comics don't work out well
 
Well, again, Marvel is a complete and utter absolute mess, and I do not know how to properly attempt to make sense of all its ridiculously extreme inherent contradictions.

Perhaps it would be best to wait for Matthew to give input, but I am personally open for variable speed tiers, as we have done similar things for other completely incoherent franchises.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, again, Marvel is a complete and utter absolute mess, and I do not know how to properly attempt to make sense of all its ridiculously extreme inherent contradictions.
Perhaps it would be best to wait for Matthew to give input, but I am personally open for variable speed tiers, as we have done similar things for other completely incoherent franchises.
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I agree with variable speed tiers personally, that makes sense for inconsistent and long running comics like Marvel. We must note forget that being strong doesn't mean fast in Marvel. I also look forward to Matthew's comment
 
Well, I suppose that we could go back to scaling the Hulk, and similar characters, from Spider-Man again, but he has still consistently kept up with most other characters in this list, including blitzing Ares. It is technically not more ridiculous to let him get a MFTL+ combat speed rating than that they have one.
 
Their potency scales because they fight each other. Regularly. With our rules on Marvel, they have to. Logically, their speed should too. King Dedede is portrayed as slow when compared to Kirby and Meta Knight. Doesn't stop him from being in the quadrillions FTL. Fat Buu doesn't look fast either. Doesn't keep him from being one of the fastest Z characters. Robo is slow compared to literally every other member of the cast, and he's still Relativistic. Spider-Man is a being that shouldn't even be on the Hulk's radar. We aren't using him to justify a low end just as much as we don't use the snake or the handcuffs. Honestly, that shouldn't be up for discussion. I agree that Hulk shouldn't have movement speed of that level, but if he can consistently fight beings that can scale to Thor and SS, then his combat speed should be scaled because he fights said beings.
 
Spiderman tagging Hulk is not a low end for speed, that's how fast Hulk is in general. In fact Spiderman is faster than Hulk in majority of the showings. We can't compare dragon ball to long running comic like Marvel and apply same logic that speed should scale to AP. It doesn't work that way in Marvel. I am not using low end like snake strangling Hulk. But saying Spiderman reacting to Hulk is low end is reaching and contradictory to Hulk's speed. Btw, I don't see a wiki rule that says speed should always scale to AP. It doesn't work that way in marvel
 
Well, I suppose that we could simply change the new scaling to:

Close to Street level character: Scale to the Black Panther

Earthbound (non-space-flying) superhumans: Scale to Spider-Man

Flying cosmic characters: Scale to Thor

Of course, in the last category, characters such as the Super-Skrull, Terrax, Thanos, and Quasar, have never been shown as any swifter than the Hulk either.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, I suppose that we could simply change the new scaling to:


Of course, in the last category, characters such as the Super-Skrull, Terrax, Thanos, and Quasar, have never been shown as any swifter than the Hulk either.
Click to expand...
Your suggestions looks nice (distinction between flying cosmic and earthbound), as for the last few characters we can make exceptions. Marvel is very different from other franchises in this wiki so exceptions for Marvel won't hurt.
 
Can't we make a distinction between general movement speed and combat speed for Hulk like characters?
 
Spiderman and Hulk have always been comparable in speed, with Spiderman being slightly faster in majority of their showings. Scaling speed to attack potency does not work in Marvel, it's a long running comic with many continuities and PIS unlike 95% of verses on the wiki

Spiderman and Hulk
 
I think that all of his statistics increase with his rage.
 
Then I really dont see the problem here, we have no clue how much power he is even using in 90%, the fact some of those comics even have street levelers hurt Hulk tells us his not that angry(or it could be marvel inconsistency).

However in stories such as World War Hulk where how much power isnt really up for question as it constantly tells us how angry Hulk is and at his peak has him fighting Sentry to stand still.

This is one of Hulk's most prominent stories, thats shows just how powerful Hulk can be so using so using other comics that just shove Hulk in it for the sake of just having him in it is a disjustice to the character.
 
Hulk is stupidely inconsistent. In fact, the only consistent thing about him is that while angry he can match the likes of Thor, Hercules and Heralds.

So a regular Hulk being blitzed by Spider-Man can be ignored.
 
 
Okay. Thanks. Other than Hunger and Hercules, were any other profiles locked?
 
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