Mario's Time Travel

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I really doubt Mario's ability of time travel. At the very least, not on command like it is assumed to be right now.

It seems to come from a single shot at the end of the game, where we see Mario (In a time period when he should be a kid) jumping into the air and disappearing.

And from that, we came to the conclusion that Mario can now time travel at will by jumping.

1. We have absolutely no idea about the context. Was Mario sent here? Did he go there by himself?

2. We have no idea if Mario truly traveled back into the present when he jumped. He just...diseappeared.

Thus, we cannot conclude that Mario is able to time travel on his own at will, especially not given that Mario has NEVER shown this ability anywhere else.

This is especially bad when in VS Threads I see stuff like "Mario travels to the past and kill X", which is not only blatantly OOC, but again assume that he can do so with his own powers.

So I'd suggest to remove this ability from his profile.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I was going to make this thread...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I...don't think that's how it works. Unlike a huge amount of characters here, at least we see Mario doing the feat, and it's pretty obvious that Mario has no reason to be there anymore given Yoshi and Baby Mario won, and went back to his own time. Unless we see that he was empowered, then we don't assume he was.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You do know there is tons of ways for a character to travel in time other than being able to do it themselves at will? He could have used a machine, be sent by another character, etc.

This is an absolutely zero context example. Can't derive anything from that.

 

[Js250476]

I agree 100% with this especially after the Mario vs Twilight thread

 

[FanofRPGs]

Which game does this take place in? Is it possible to send a video of the feat at hand?

Anyways, given what you said, its relative vagueness, and Mario never again doing it or having the ability to do it, I think it may be removed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Characters from tier 10 to tier 1 have one-time abilities, and a good amount even more vague. We have no knowledge at all to assume someone else sent him. The best argument that can possibly be made is that this was teleportation instead.

@Js. You know the argument was that Mario just one-shots or heavily cripples her in pure AP, right?

@Fan. Yoshi's New Island. End credits.

 

[Js250476]

I more meant that argument getting used a lot then anything else when learning more about cause me to have the same problems as the OP

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

While yes, it's ooc, the amount of "this character uses (insert ability that's rarely used) to win!" arguments are so prevalent that it's not even funny.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except that those abilities aren't vague as this one. Out of all the explanations for Mario's presence here, the one where Mario suddenly gains the ability to time travel at will is the least reasonable one imo. Especially since he has nothing hinting that he could possibly use that before.

I know we don't go with Author Intent here, but if you came up to the creator's face and claimed that this ending 100% proves that Mario can travel at any points in time at will and that ALL of his other fights are him being stupid for plot's sake, I doubt you'd get much aprobations.

It's not because we deal with VS Debating that we must give out abilities to characters to fix every plothole/explain every unexplained event.

 

[Js250476]

You know if he could time travel at will makes me wonder why he needed a time machine every other instance he time traveled

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Same reason Mario can naturally produce fire in some games but needs a Fire Flower in many others.

Or Rosalina, with her powerset, being threatened by anything in Super Mario 3D World.

Or Bowser not wrecking everything with his. Heck, he can time travel on his own.

Because Mario has no canon whatsoever.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Saik.

For the first argument, trust me when I say I've seen bigger extrapolations get accepted and no one questions them.

For your second argument, say the same thing about Mario being well into tier 4, and you'd get the same response.

Mario is in a different time. Mario disappears suddenly, and it's implied to be a conscious effort. No one is shown helping him. Pretty sure the least you could argue is teleportation.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I mean Bowser doesn't have time travel on his profile but sure.

Again, that'd be acceptable if we weren't dealing with such a vague feat. At best I can accept "possibly", but it's certainly not a factual certainty that Mario time traveled on his own in this specific instance. It's the same why Power Rangers isn't 3-C IIRC. When dealing with vagueness and something outside of a character's usual showing, it's best to assume something that doesn't lead to unreasonable upgrade (In PR's case, not assuming that the Galaxy was instantly blown up or in this case, not assuming that Mario can just leap through time all of sudden)

 

[Js250476]

Yeah in New island he can "travel though time and space"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, the literal worst you can assume is teleportation (even though teleportation never looked like that in the Mario series). Mario still disappears by his own lonesome. And even then, why would he reveal himself just to stay in that timeline for some time?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"Even though teleportation never looked like that in the Mario series"

Don't you bring that up when most of your argument relies on Mario having no consistency in the first place.

To show the audience that this was modern Mario all along? Even then, we can't be fully certain that this was Mario going back to his time period directly.

There is also this thing called "This scene is too vague to derive powers or abilities from so we won't use it". Doesn't Mario already have teleportation anyway?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That was simply observational humor. Not an argument.

When there's no time machine or reference to say, Rosalina or E. Gadd to help out, if we come to the assumption that the disappearance was the return to his time, then Occam's Razoe kicks in and says Mario did it (again, that's if we assume that was him returning to the present)

No. No he doesn't. And we've derived powers and abilities from statements. Countless times. This is less vague.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

There is no such thing because this cinematic has absolutely no context.

Occam's razor is going to come back and kick you in the face when you have to assume that Mario had this ability all along and never used it because reasons. Didn't time travel stuff happen in other stuff too (stuff that includes baby Mario as well)? Because assuming that they happened again seems less assumption heavy than saying that Mario can time travel.

This isn't even a statement. This is an assumption based on a vague cutscene.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Don't know what you're saying for that part.

Rosalina, for example, has a metric ton of abilities she uses solely in the Galaxy games that don't appear in: Party, Kart, SM3DW, Olympics, or even Smash. Because reasons. And I could branch out of Mario to include a bunch of other verses. Also, Baby Mario stuff involved a time machine iirc.

At least it shows something, unlike statements. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

At least it shows something, unlike statements. Actions speak louder than words.

Then why is the pen mightier than the sword? ovo

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah. Baby Mario and Mario already met with the usage of a time machine. Imo that'd be far more believable and straightforward that it'd happen again instead of Mario gaining time travel all of sudden.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Then why is the pen mightier than the sword? ovo

• Cal's mind breaks trying to figure his was around the paradox ovo

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Cal.exe has broken. I win~

 

[Ultima_Reality]

>Then why is the pen mighter than the sword?

The pen is mightier because it can write by itself, the sword can't write without cutting through stuff >.>

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

But you can write with the blood of the victim you have cut.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Yes, but you still have to cut through stuff, while the pen can write without cutting through stuff... unless the ink is actually blood

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

If your pen is big and sharp enough, it can be used as both a pen and a sword.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

What if it's the pen the made bendy from bendy and the ink machine???!!!

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

What if it is this pen?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

That ones cheating might as well be the Arthur's pen from once apone a time.

 

[AquaWaifu]

I argue thisn't about Mario only do it the one time, its more that even with STATEMENTS, we know the ORIGIN of the time travel, either a character explains they or another character has time travel capabilities or the narrator or statements from supplementary material says "Character X can use their abilities to travel through time" Its explained in some manner HOW they accomplish it.


but Mario here has nothing sure he has more than a statement comparitively, but thats not taking into consideration we have no idea HOW he did it. We have no idea how difficult it was to to get to the time period, amybe it would be easy to get back to his time but really hard to begin with. We dont know its not explained.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

It shouldn't be removed, he has it.

How does he have it? We don't know. How does he do it? We don't know. Is it out of of character? Yes.


But he does have it, how, I can't say but it's something he's done.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

...If we dont know any of those things then we cant just assume its an ability he has...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

>shadow of Mario shows up in stinger at end of game in different time period

>jumps and disappears

>give Mario at-will time travel via jumping


Is this real?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Yet we see him do it.

I'm not saying it should be used on debates, rather keep it listed but put a note for its ambiguity and unknown context while starting it's out of character.

Its an ability he has, we see him do it, could it be something else? Yeah but we don't know, it goes both ways.

Keep it listed or put a possibly in front of it but specify it's not usable in debates.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If we dont know for 100% certain that it's time travel, we cannot list it as such

 

[AquaWaifu]

It shouldn't be removed, he has it.
How does he have it? We don't know. How does he do it? We don't know. Is it out of of character? Yes.


But he does have it, how, I can't say but it's something he's done.

then its not combat applicable.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Ninja'd ya.

 

[AquaWaifu]

he could've easily used a device we couldnt see due to silhouette or maybe it was activated by jumping.


Honestly the scene is just kinda stupud and just a nice little easter egg at the end of the credits.


"Like oooh Mr Pipe was MARIO the whole TIMMMEEEE! ahuhuhuhu!"