Mario (Power Star) vs Sonic.EXE

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Sending Boos inside the vessels is a bad idea. Those vessels are made to hold souls and Sonic can get rid of them easily. Going inside Sonic is even worse, because that's how he erases things from existance. The Boos might have possesed Mario through his dreams, but they still need to get inside his body.

While it seems type 5 is bunk, he's purely made out of dark matter. As in, a body with nondifferentiated parts and no vital areas to exploit. If he sees Mario cuts through him like butter and that would eventually kill him, then it would be pretty dumb of him to give Mario chances to keep hitting him... while inside a realm that he controls (He's childish, not stupid).

Destroying the universe means Sonic can't reality warp anymore, because there's no more reality. However, it leaves Mario in a void where he most likely can't see anything. Aura and light manipulation might help, but he can only move around by teleporting... which Sonic can do too.

You might think Mario still has a chance... until you remember Sonic can turn into smoke making himself impossible to hit, turning everything in a stamina battle Mario can't win.

 

[MicDaniel]

There Not Going inside of Vessels, there Mind Controlling which is different, So they wouldn't be setting themselves up for getting captured, As they aren't entering the Vessel itself but the Mind of it. There's also the Fact Devil Mario can Free them at any given point in time. Also, Sonic.Exe Soul Erasure isn't a passive ability, it's something that needs to be activated and as the Creator said, It's a Black Hole he forms from his mouth. In the event that a boo is in danger because of this, Devil Mario can easily pull them away before being completely sucked in and if he needs to, he can just destroy it and leave Sonic.Exe open for a Mind Control. Even if Sonic.Exe could trap the Boos in a vessel, it only works on those he has Power Over to begin with, Such as his victims who fell for the Sonic.Exe program.

His being Made out of dark matter Doesn't change the Outcome. Devil Mario has the means to completely eradict the Dark Matter that forms Sonic.Exe. we've Seen Devil Mario manipulate an Entire Universe and he was Going to destroy it, So eradicating all the Dark Matter that Makes him wouldn't be an issue.

In the event that Devil Mario Destroys Sonic.Exe Universe, It would lose a massive Portion of its power, meanwhile Devil Mario Still has the Power Star feeding him Juice. Not can he teleport, Devil Mario can Also just outright Move his Body at Faster then light Speeds, After all, he was Spinning His entire Universe Around like it was Nothing.

Turning into Smoke would be Caught out by Devil Mario's Omni-Directional blast Attack(Which is powered by Power Star energy) or his Own Reality Warping and there's still the Conciouness the Boos can invade. Even if it was a Stamina Battle, the upper limits of Devil Mario's stamina are pretty High as the Character has fought for several Days searching for Power Stars without Rest. So by the Time he does get Tired, Sonic.Exe would be defeated by that Point.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Their mind control consist in them going inside the body of the host, it doesn't matter if it is in a very specific part of the body, they are still inside. I've never seen Mario pull Boos from something designed to trap souls (Not that it matters since Sonic doesn't use his vessels to fight. I've brought them way back when as proof that Sonic can remake his body if needed). The black hole mouth thingy might be an ability that he needs to activate, but the creator made it very clear that the victim is being literally eaten. As in, going inside his body, made of nondifferentiated parts. Like, any way in which you enter Sonic's body is going to get you erased.

The universe is less durable that Sonic as it can't take an universal attack while Sonic has universal durability. And while we know Mario can destroy the universe, the closer we get to see him "manipulate" it is the stars spinning thing, which is portrayed in a way makes it seem either unintentional or non-literal.

Sonic isn't powered by his world given he predates it, destroying it just means he's now in the void he was born in and he has to recreate it if he wants to reality warp again. Teleporting is one of the first "on-screen" things Sonic does (Unless you meant that Mario can't teleport, which I'm almost sure is meant to be what's happening here). Speed is equalized so dunno why you're bringing it up.

Sonic's strategy when trying to outlast is to stay out of range and teleport before an attack connects, so Mario's omnidirectional attacks would only work the first few times unless Sonic desides to let them land everytime. Besides, smoke just dissipates, you can't really punch it, kick it, slice it or blast it (Unless Mario has a crazy AP advantage, which is not the case).

 

[MicDaniel]

"There Mind Control Consist of them going into the body of the host." No it doesn't, as seen in the final Episode of Power Star Saga, Devil Mario was Mind Controling the Entire Mushroom kingdom, meaning the mind control is not limited to entering the host to take control of them. "I've never seen Mario Pull Boos from Something designed to trap Souls." He can literally just destroy the vessel itself.. I would actually like to ask a few questions on this matter. Is ever actually stated the Bodies Sonic.Exe makes traps souls? The last time I checked, there merely vessels for his victims who are Supposedly from our world. Even then, is there evidence that the Souls themselves can escape? Unlike the Boos who freely enter in and out of there host at will? The creator also makes it clear that Sonic.Exe has to EAT Them in order to erase there existence, as the Creator specifically states:
"That person who gets eaten by the creature this way is forever gone." So the only way sonic.exe can erase someone is to use the Black Hole Mouth Ability, Meaning my point still stands about being able to mind control his vessels.

"Makes it seem unintentional or Non-Literal."
"The Closer we get see to see him manipulate is the Star Spinning thing."
Claiming that it's unintentional or Non-literal would be good argument but the context of the situation Says otherwise. Both in story and Daniel sun have stated that they were going to destroy the Universe and all of Creation. With that in Mind, Considering that the Power Stars gave Devil Mario these Manipulation abilities and have enough juice to Destroy the Universe, The Manipulation abilities are on par due to the place origin.

Well there's no telling how long it would take Sonic.exe to Make a new Reality and Devil Mario could just punch him in the throat before he could get a chance or Outright Erase him. (I meant to say Not only can Devil Mario teleport but he throw himself at faster then light speed.) Well, it's not really his own speed, More like using an ability at your disposal to yeet yourself faster then what you normal go on your own.

Considering Devil Mario's Range, the Fact he has the ability to teleport, Yeet himself at FTL speeds and is Powered by an Item that can Cause Universal destruction, I'm pretty sure running away and turning into smoke would be a seriously ineffective strategy.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

I've always figured those were aditional Boos that weren't inside Mario's body possesing Toads to bring him the stars. If that's not the case then I don't see why he doesn't just mind control anyone that gets in his way like those Toads that were very clearly bothering him and much closer that the ones he's supposedly mind controling right now.

It seems that the "trapping" comes from Sonic himself, so I guess the Boos can leave the vessels, though is irrelevant because Sonic doesn't use those to fight.

It seems the Boos can mind control Sonic, but is weirdly out of character for Mario to mind control during fights. Moreover, Sonic can get evil people to code an entire game without them realizing and from an universe away, but he also doesn't bust that out in fights. No idea who would pull off mind control first to be honest.

For what we know, the Power Stars were going to give Mario enough power to destroy the universe, but the intergalactic telekinesis thing is out of left field. If you assume that is both literal and a conscious act, then why does Mario keep moving those stars after the Boos give him temporal control, and why do the stars lose all momentum after Mario stabs himself?

I said that he doesn't need to recreate it unless reality warping becomes a deciding factor.

Turning into smoke is actually the best way to avoid Mario's attacks. He would still be just as durable as he normally is and any hit that lands would blow him away (Which is not an issue since he can teleport) instead of hurting him. Mario could only completly destroy it if he has an absurd AP advantage, because is impossible to destroy smoke that can tank your attacks unless you have hax that can bypass durability.

The way I see it, Sonic starts tormenting Mario but before he tries to rip out his soul Mario desides to go for physical attacks. Sonic, seeing Mario is strong enough to hurt him, decides to manipulate the battlefield to his advantage to avoid Mario's attacks, which works well given Sonic has has a better "view" than Mario (He can see across universal distances while Mario only has human eyes), but Mario decides to destroy the universe. With nothing left to manipulate Sonic loses the range advantage and decides to turn into smoke to protect himself and teleport around to taunt Mario and tire him out. Mario sees that physical attacks are useless and decides to send out Boos to possess Sonic. However, since Sonic can interact with souls even outside of eating them, can teleport around while Boos can't, can see them without facing them and Boos have no durability feats, he can easily get rid of them. There's nothing Mario can do that Sonic doesn't have an answer for.

 

[MicDaniel]

"I've always considered those were additional boos." Not really, the ending of Power Star Saga states the Invaders were destroyed after Mario Stabbed himself. This means all of the Boos were inside of Mario for that to be the case. "Why doesn't he mind Control everyone that gets in his way." First off, That's a bad scene to use for this argument, As it's him taking punches without showing any signs of damage, implying he's so powerful at this point that he doesn't need to try and easily toys with opponents. Secondly, The Boos enjoy making people suffer. The ending and how they are defeated clearly shows this, So them choosing to outright murder people instead of mind controlling them is simply a in character thing but they can 100% do it.

"This is irrelevant because sonic.exe doesn't use them for a fight." Yeah but the Boos can always mind control the Main Sonic.Exe Vessel which .exe uses constantly.

"Out of character for Mario to Mind Control during a fight." He was mind controlling an Entire Kingdom during his fight with Luigi, So it's not that Out of character at all.
"Sonic can mind control evil people to make .exe games without them realizing it."
Where is this in the original story?
And Sonic.exe wouldn't be able to mind control Mario due to all of the Boos that would intervene.

"Intergalactic Telekinesis is out of left field."
Not really considering the Power Stars are shown giving him new abilities upon collecting them that could also be considered out of "left Field." Such as, Increased Speed, durability and Strength Teleportation and Energy Manipulation. So it isn't out of left field if he's shown Gaining new abilities due to the Amount of Power Stars he has absorb.
"They gave Mario temporary Control"
Simply because they Gave Mario temporary Control of his body does not imply that it's Mario manipulating space. Also the stars stopping is a reaction of the Boos Dying as there focus at that point has been broken.

If it does come down to reality warping, Sonic.Exe is toast.

"Turning into Smoke is the best way to avoid his attacks."
No it's not, Especially if those attacks come from a place that can destroy a universe, Turning into Smoke won't stop the very matter your made out of from being destroyed. Also Devil Mario does have hax, He can just manipulate the Dark Matter that Sonic.Exe is made out of and to make matters worse, this Ability becomes more potent when Sonic.Exe Reality is destroyed.

The way how I see this battle playing out is Sonic.Exe Tries to Torture him but before he can even attack or warp reality, Devil Mario swings first, throws a Boo at him or Mind Controls him himself. In the event that Sonic.Exe starts doing his teleportation shenanigans or actually manages to annoy/Injury Devil Mario, he can just unleash his universe ending attack, leaving the two in the void and sonic.exe without any means of defending himself. Any attempts to run would be countered by Devil Mario's own teleportation and him just forcing the dark matter that makes up Sonic.exe to stop dead in there tracks. Even turning into smoke wouldn't help him and Devil Mario can Either destroy the dark matter, Have a Boo possess the complied Dark Matter or just unleash another universe ending attack to destroy him.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Ok then, time to dedicate a paragraph to debunking remote mind control:
In episode 4 Devil Mario points out that Mario attempted multiple times to esape his grasp. This ties back to episode 2, where aditional Boos enter Mario's body, most likely to keep him under control. Why would they need to do that if they are capable of controling people from a distance? Now, this doesn't explain how the Boos that were inside the Toad army could also have died, but here's the thing: that whole army disappears between shots for the rest of the episode, to the point were Luigi, Mario and Peach's corpses were left on the floor when those Toads should have logically picked Peach's corpse at the very least. What I gather from this is that either Daniel forgot about the army midway through the ending or intentionally ignored it, neither of which support remote mind control.

And an aditional paragraph for telekinesis:
There are several shots that make the whole star moving thing seem non literal. First, DM absorbing the final Power Star, where a galaxy overlaps the area and is not literal unless everyone is several astronomical units tall. Second, the first shot of stars spinning where there's a galaxy overlapping the area again. Third, a shot of Luigi laying on the ground where the stars are static. The fourth and fifth shot of the stars spinning are fine on their own. The sixth shot where Mario is given control again is also fine, inertia would keep the stars spinning for a while. But then in the seventh shot after Mario impales himself the stars are completly still, which only works if you can justify Mario going out of his way to stop the stars from moving, which doesn't seem like a big priority for him given the context. With all of this in mind, I just can't consider this a legitimate ability.

When I say "Mind control is out of character during a fight", I mean against the person he's fighting, not that he can't fight while mind controling someone.

Exe's mind control comes from author statements. "[...]he DID have some sort of influence over those with some form of evil in their hearts, and as such the creature was able to get someone (without them knowing) to create a doorway that will bridge the gap between his world and ours. This doorway took the form of a computer game, called "Sonic.exe" which was burned into a CD disc". So Exe can make someone code an entire game without them even noticing, which puts his mind control above the Boos as Mario not only was aware of it but he also could (Fruitlessly) fight it back.

If your body is smoke, any attack that you CAN tank won't hurt you. To get rid of someone whose body is smoke you need to either disperse it far enough so the person can't put themselves back together (Which is impossible because Exe can teleport) or attack hard enough to bypass their durability (Which is impossible because both are in the same tier and Mario doesn't massively upscale from anyone).

So Exe has better mind control, can fight mind control from the Boos like Mario does with the difference that he can physically interact with and one shot the Boos, destroying the universe only gets rid of one of Exe's abilities while making Mario unable to move outside teleportation, Exe doesn't need to look in Mario's direction to see him, and Mario needs to land more hits to win while Exe is capable of targeting vital areas.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I’m gonna be that fun breaking guy and just go Mario FRA

 

[The_Smashor]

Wow, that Sonic.EXE profile is actually kinda bad and is missing a ton of stuff.

Honestly, both have much better profiles on fc/oc battles wiki. Said profiles would probably be better to use for a more serious versus thread like this. IDK about Mario, but I updated Sonic.EXE's profile myself recently to make sure it was up to code.

Sonic.EXE's main wincons are probably hax related anyways, so the new AP gap shouldn't be terrible.

 

[MicDaniel]

"Devil Mario attempted to escape his grasp."
"They needed more Boos to keep him under control"
"Why would they need to do that if they can control people from a distance?"
The fact the first episode shows Mario fighting them back in his mind and the fact Mario needs to be held in constant restraint means Mario has resistance to Mind Control, therefore answering your question. Not only that But Mario is also the one housing the Power Stars in his being, why they wouldn't control him directly to ensure he somehow doesn't break free is beyond me.
"The Toad army could have died"
"They disappeared between shots."
"They could've picked up peachs body."
This isn't saying much of anything either, as this entire argument your making is based around what the author possibly wanted and your trying to use an assumption as evidence without any concrete evidence to Support it. Like how is "Maybe he forgot?" An Argument if you don't know yourself? As far as I'm concerning, this doesn't help your case as it's an unsupported assumption of the authors intent.

Now for the second paragraph.
"It can be considered Non-literal as the galaxy overlaps with everone."
One could easily say it could be taken literal due to the context of situation at hand, Considering the Power of The Power Stars and the fact Mario in the next scene was swirling space like a cosmic cereal bowl, it can be asserted that this overlapping is another ability of his reality Warping, allowing him to alter the size and scales of those cosmic body and even make a light project of the cosmos over himself and everyone else. The scene can also can be used as literal evidence to show the viewer the scale of Devil Mario's power which would align with what is stated by both the creator and in animation story.
"Stars stopping, would've kept moving because of inertia. I just can't."
Well I probably should've Said this at the beginning, it's not Telekinesis. your just now saying that for some reason, (I also never once referred to it as such and always called it space manipulation or reality manipulation) it's him warping reality so the inertia Argument and the shots where the stars are stopping have a legitimate explanation, As during those scenes it's him simply toying around with his powers, Stopping and moving the Stars. At that point, things like inertia doesn't matter as the laws physics are being tampered with from the get go. Also, there's alot stuff on Sonic.Exe side we can bring to question but this topic has become drawn out as is.

"I meant against the person he's fighting." Eh, good point but it's still a option.

"Sonic.Exe can influence people with Darkness in there heart and make them do things while unaware, Therefore superior to boos."
How would that make his mind control superior to Boos? They author refers to it as an influnce. So he's literally just a second opinion or a Voice
Ex:
"Yo dude, this is your inner monolog, you should make a creepy pasta game that might open a doorway to a elderitch gods dark realm."
"Yeah... I should do that..."
And the knowing part considering it's an influence is them not knowing someone's doing it, not them dream walking or something along those lines. Also Mario wasn't aware of what he was doing either. The time he was aware, is when they first attacked and when Mario killed himself.

Unless the Sonic.Exe has a Ressistance to his dark matter being Manipulated itself, Turning into Smoke, Teleporting and even his own durability does not matter. He's not going anywhere, Turning into Smoke won't help because it's still made of matter. Devil Mario can force him in a physical form that he can weaken to the point he just destroys him. Even with the tank Argument, he's still taking damage getting progressively more weaker then before.

So Sonic.Exe has an Influence, (Not actual Mind control.) Over people with darkness in there hearts which wouldn't work on Mario and the Boos would be able to sort out and figure out there's a voice trying to tell Mario what to do and outright mute it. Sonic.exe Still doesn't have a Resistance to Mind Controlling, Don't know why your saying he does. Mario can use his own reality Warping to move through the void or just Bring .exe to him and hold him place for either a mind control or just to finish him off.

(Also happy new years.)

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Also, about EXE immortality. We have no timeframe on how long the body creation takes.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

No one's arguing about that anymore

The fact the first episode shows Mario fighting them back in his mind and the fact Mario needs to be held in constant restraint means Mario has resistance to Mind Control

So they, on propouse, picked up the only person that has shown resistance to his control instead of someone easier to manage? Because interpreting it that way instead of "Their mind control isn't perfect and can be fought back" makes them seem stupid.

This isn't saying much of anything either, as this entire argument your making is based around what the author possibly wanted and your trying to use an assumption as evidence without any concrete evidence to Support it. Like how is "Maybe he forgot?" An Argument if you don't know yourself? As far as I'm concerning, this doesn't help your case as it's an unsupported assumption of the authors intent.

No, I'm saying the argument "All the invaders dying when Mario stabbed himself means that every Boo was inside Mario and the Toad army was controled remotely" means nothing when said army dissapears and none of the things that should logically happen if they were still there happen.

One could easily say it could be taken literal due to the context of situation at hand, Considering the Power of The Power Stars and the fact Mario in the next scene was swirling space like a cosmic cereal bowl, it can be asserted that this overlapping is another ability of his reality Warping, allowing him to alter the size and scales of those cosmic body and even make a light project of the cosmos over himself and everyone else. The scene can also can be used as literal evidence to show the viewer the scale of Devil Mario's power which would align with what is stated by both the creator and in animation story.

No, none of that is mutually inclusive with the capability of destoying the universe. If at least anything that's not lightyears away was also being affected by this supposed intergalactic reality warping I would consider it more than something that was done because "it looked cool", the same way I'm not taking into account the real life hypotesis of dark matter and just assume that Exe's creator wrote that because "it sounded edgy".

Well I probably should've Said this at the beginning, it's not Telekinesis. your just now saying that for some reason, (I also never once referred to it as such and always called it space manipulation or reality manipulation) it's him warping reality so the inertia Argument and the shots where the stars are stopping have a legitimate explanation, As during those scenes it's him simply toying around with his powers, Stopping and moving the Stars. At that point, things like inertia doesn't matter as the laws physics are being tampered with from the get go.

He's toying with his powers. In a serious context where the persone he's talking to can't even see what he's doing.
Like, DM might be a ****** that likes to see his enemies suffer, but he's serious enough to not act like a kid that just got his car toy.
Also, how do the Boos give Mario enough control to make conscious decisions while still reality warpiong those stars? And why are they still reality warping?

Eh, good point but it's still a option.

Yeah, but not an opening move or something he uses frequently

How would that make his mind control superior to Boos? They author refers to it as an influnce. So he's literally just a second opinion or a Voice

If making someone sit in front of a pc for hours and code a bridge between worlds that has complete access to the contents of said pc into a cd, when said person might not know how to code or not have a spare cd lying around, all while the person is unaware of the fact they are doing something they wouldn't normally do and/or know how to do from an universe away is merely considered an "influnce", then I can't begin to imagine what Exe can do if he actually tries.

Also Mario wasn't aware of what he was doing either.

He still knew that he was being controled, otherwise he would have never fought back.

Unless the Sonic.Exe has a Ressistance to his dark matter being Manipulated itself, Turning into Smoke, Teleporting and even his own durability does not matter.

Even if we consider DM's reality warping a actual ability, all he does is move things. Even when he loses his mind he just does the equivalent of Goku powering up while lifting small objects.

Even with the tank Argument, he's still taking damage getting progressively more weaker then before.

No, smoke doesn't get damaged when you attack it, it just gets moved away which is fixed by teleportation.

So Sonic.Exe has an Influence, (Not actual Mind control.) Over people with darkness in there hearts which wouldn't work on Mario and the Boos would be able to sort out and figure out there's a voice trying to tell Mario what to do and outright mute it.

Mario doesn't have evil in his heart, as far as Power Star shows us. The Boos do.

Sonic.exe Still doesn't have a Resistance to Mind Controlling, Don't know why your saying he does.

I'm saying that we've never seen Boos possesing someone without having to (Mentally) fight first. So Exe should be able to fight back like Mario tried to, with the difference he can actually physically interact with the Boos, which have no durability feats and would get one shot.

Mario can use his own reality Warping to move through the void or just Bring .exe to him and hold him place for either a mind control or just to finish him off.

Already said why I don't agree with reality warping, how limited it's supposed showings have been, and even this potential use you brought up is hindered by DM needing human vision to catch someone who can teleport and either can also reality warp or is hard to see in an empty void.

(Also happy new years.)

Thanks man.

 

[MicDaniel]

"So they on purpose chose the guy that could resist them? Instead of someone easier to manage?"
No, they chose Mario because he was the most resilient, Powerful warrior that would be the perfect vessel to complete there task. Like what other Character would they chose? A random Toad with zero to little Combat Experience, Only to have Mario and Luigi gather the power Stars on there own easily and just outright defeat the boos? Better to Mind control the strongest there is then to let them roam free with there resistances. Also, Simply because a person resist Mind control, Doesn't make the mind control is weak, it just means the person being Mind control is resistant. Unless it can be provened anyone can resist it, then the character gets a resist ability.

simply because the Toad army are off screen doesn't prove your point, Especially when your argument is based around something that would "Logically" happen. "The toads would've at least buried them properly." And whos to say they didn't after the series closed? Simply because they are off screen doesn't mean there gone or they won't do what you considered to be the logical course of action.

"No, none of that is mutually inclusive with the capability of destoying the universe. "
When did I say it was? I referring to amount of energy the power Stars hold and what there literally shown doing in the next scene. The universe destroying statements is evidence of this energy existing and if Mario is manipulating space with the power Stars, there's no reason to believe that the manipulation is less then what destructive capacity is especially when they come from the same place, that being the power stars.
"I would consider it more than something that was done because "it looked cool", the same way I'm not taking into account the real life hypotesis of dark matter and just assume that Exe's creator wrote that because "it sounded edgy""
So at this point your just saying, "I don't agree with it because that not how I interpret" That's not an argument, I would be more inclined to agree but at this point your just arguing the Arthors intent, instead of taking it for face value, unless something is stated otherwise.

"Luigi can't see what he's doing"
Peach is also there and he took serious Satisfaction out of Flexing his powers to kill her.
"Like, DM might be a ****** that likes to he his enemies suffer, but he's serious enough to not act like a kid that just got his car toy."
There's a scene where he flexes his powers on toads before getting his final power boost and killing Luigi. He outright let's them punch him. So yes, him flexing and toying with his abilities is something he'd do. Him not being a child isn't going to stop him from showing off the Drip.

"If making someone sit in front of a pc for hours and code a bridge between worlds that has complete access to the contents of said pc into a cd, when said person might not know how to code or not have a spare cd lying around, all while the person is unaware of the fact they are doing something they wouldn't normally do and/or know how to do from an universe away is merely considered an "influnce", then I can't begin to imagine what Exe can do if he actually tries."
This scenario is way too specific that you'd need evidence that the influnce made this person slave away doing this task when the situation could easily be that the person is not only an experience developer to an extent but they treated the task as fun side project that they worked on from time to time until completion. Until then, that's a big leap to suggest that a mere influence is on par with Mind control.

"He still knew he was being controlled" but the point is that there Mind control can make there victims unaware of there actions too.

"Even if we consider DM's reality warping a actual ability."
If we do considered it an ability, he still Manipulated space itself and the range/Power would be on par due to the fact it comes from the power Stars to begin with.

"Smoke doesn't get damaged when you attack."
Yes it can, it depends on the attack. If it's reality warping, you manipulate its matter or form. If it's destruction, you destroy the particles that makes up the smoke.

"Boos have darkness in there hearts."
Yeah and there's more then one.

"We haven't seen Boos Mind control someone without fighting first."
They Mind control an entire kingdoms worth people without having to struggle.

"I don't Agree with reality warping."
I'm glad you admit but it's clear the he has reality warping abilities.
"Hindered by human sight."
In what context? Speed? Because it's already been established speed is equalized.
"Sonic.exe can reality warp making him hard to catch."
So can Devil Mario but Sonic.exe can't warp reality when his universe is destroyed, Also being in the void doesn't mean his sight would be hindered. There are plenty of fictions where characters can see just fine in a void.

"Thanks man."
Your welcome.

 

[TCBlueFire]

Giving it to power star based on everything i seen from the debate it considered a incapacitate which is allowed for these rules

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Simply because a person resist Mind control, Doesn't make the mind control is weak, it just means the person being Mind control is resistant. Unless it can be provened anyone can resist it, then the character gets a resist ability.

Except their mind control works in a very specific way. They enter the host and fight them in a mindscape-esque realm. The assumption here is that their mind control works differently any other time.

simply because the Toad army are off screen doesn't prove your point, Especially when your argument is based around something that would "Logically" happen. "The toads would've at least buried them properly." And whos to say they didn't after the series closed? Simply because they are off screen doesn't mean there gone or they won't do what you considered to be the logical course of action.

They aren't offscreen. They dissapear between shots and are never aknowledged again, to the point where Mario, Luigi and Peach's corpses are still on the ground the next morning despite being surrounded by Toads right before dying.

If the Toad Army stops being a factor for the rest of the episode out of nowhere, then why would we assume "The host was killed along with the invaders..." takes it into account?

So at this point your just saying, "I don't agree with it because that not how I interpret"

No, I'm saying that this "Reality Warping" is portrayed in a very inconsistent manner that even if taken at face value, is limited to just moving things around

Peach is also there and he took serious Satisfaction out of Flexing his powers to kill her.

...he just stabbed her.

There's a scene where he flexes his powers on toads before getting his final power boost and killing Luigi. He outright let's them punch him.

And that scene shows him using his powers for a practical propouse (Killing Toads), which is not the same as "Moving stars because why not?"

This scenario is way too specific that you'd need evidence that the influnce made this person slave away doing this task when the situation could easily be that the person is not only an experience developer to an extent but they treated the task as fun side project that they worked on from time to time until completion. Until then, that's a big leap to suggest that a mere influence is on par with Mind control.

According to the sequel, Exe killed several people and their computers were burned or destroyed, which would destroy the disk too. As shitty and short as the game described is, it can't realistically be remade several times in a single year as a "fun side proyect".

"He still knew he was being controlled" but the point is that there Mind control can make there victims unaware of there actions too.

You missed my point

Boo's mind control: Requires several Boos for a single person, the person is aware they are being controled
Exe's mind control: Practically undetectable, hours worth of work and the victim never realizes they are being controlled

Exe > Boos at mind controlling.

"Smoke doesn't get damaged when you attack."
Yes it can, it depends on the attack. If it's reality warping, you manipulate its matter or form.

Cool, DM can move smoke, which is countered by teleporting.

If it's destruction, you destroy the particles that makes up the smoke.

And his reality warping has never been used in a destructive way. Any other of his abilities are physical, tangible attacks, all of which don't let him destroy Exe and a particle level because Exe is too durable for that.

"Boos have darkness in there hearts."
Yeah and there's more then one..

They are a hive mind.

"We haven't seen Boos Mind control someone without fighting first."
They Mind control an entire kingdoms worth people without having to struggle.

They took control of them off screen, that's not "Not struggling", that's just "Didn't see how they took control of the army, therefore we can't tell if it was any different from how they took control of Mario the first time".

"Hindered by human sight."
In what context? Speed? Because it's already been established speed is equalized.

In the context that DM can only see in a single direction, while Exe doesn't even need eyes and can see thing from an universe away

"Sonic.exe can reality warp making him hard to catch."
So can Devil Mario but Sonic.exe can't warp reality when his universe is destroyed, Also being in the void doesn't mean his sight would be hindered. There are plenty of fictions where characters can see just fine in a void.

You have to prove a positive, not a negative.

 

[MicDaniel]

"Except there mind control works in a specific.. They have to enter and fight the host. The assumption is they do it differently."
They only did that for Mario however. When they mind control other characters, they did it without entering their bodies. So no, it's not a specific way for them to Mind control someone. They can do it remotely and they can do it by entering the host in question. It's not an assumption if it's clearly displayed in action.

"They aren't off screen, they disappear between shots and are never acknowledged again."
"Then why would we assume "the host was killed along with the Invaders" takes into account?"
This still doesn't support your argument and what I said still stands. Them not being acknowledged or missing between shots or being offscreen does not mean or imply they are absent.
Because it's not an assumption at that point and the previous logic still stands. The Boos were only in Mario, in no other scene are they seen entering another host body, except his. This is also the word of the author I'm using so this isn't some implications or assumption. In order for the Invaders to be destroyed when Mario Stabbed himself, they all would have to be inside of him, This means the toad army is being possessed Remotely and now your only argument is them not being seen anymore within the remainder of the animation.

16:42
After attaining the Final Power Star, The Toad Army is Right behind him, Meaning there still there and or are Around.

“The reality warping is portrayed in a very Inconsistent Manner”
No its not, Two Reality Warping Abilities were put on display, Space Manipulation when he turned the Sky into Cosmic soup and Reality Destruction, Stated Multiple Times he was Going to destroy the Universe.

“He Just Stabbed.”
And before he did that, he was unnecessarily teleporting around laughing like a maniac. He flexed his powers on her.

“And that scene shows him using his powers for a practical propouse (Killing Toads), which is not the same as "Moving stars because why not?"
It is the same because of the following:
He let the Toads punch him repeatedly and that serves no practical purpose, Then he kills them.
He Constantly Teleports around one for no reason and then goes in for the kill.
He needlessly Teleports towards Peach just to kill her.
Him Manipulating Space for no practical purpose just because he can before destroying all of it, is in character. After all, his Downfall was caused by him flexing on Mario, that served no purpose other than the boos just wanting to do that.

“As shitty and short as the game described is, it can't realistically be remade several times in a single year as a "fun side project"
One Massive oversight.
There's a literal Cult within Sonic.Exe 2. Creating a cult doesn’t require mind control. So the time span that it takes to Make the Sonic.exe Game doesn’t matter at this point. There's an entire cult of people to make copies or develop the Sonic.Exe Game. Time is irrelevant at that point. This also means, the person or people who make the game isn’t killed.
There's this Line in the Story:
“The Cult of X is involved. Their members, after someone gets killed, steals the game disc the victim had at the time and hides it away for a while until it shows up later on at a random place to easily obtain it. These random locations could be anything: a game store, a pawn shop, the black market, eBay, Craigslist, random yet seemingly harmless deliveries, anywhere that involves buying stuff.”
So, there's more than one disk of that game being made, The Cult of X are retrieving copies and making new ones and putting them in places where they're easy to get.
So, While it's not a side Project, There's Still no evidence that Sonic.Exe Mind Control is beyond an Influence, A whisper and A suggestion. If anything, Sonic.Exe 2 confirms he can’t Force people to do his bidding, He has to convince them too.

“Exe's mind control: Practically undetectable, hours worth of work and the victim never realizes they are being controlled.”
Exe’s actual Mind Control: Not actual Mind control, No evidence of such. Sonic.Exe 2 Confirms Exe can’t force his will onto people, People Detect it and just choose to follow him. No actual time span is given, Multiple people make copies and retrieve the disk from victims and mass sell them later, Meaning the disk are easily made and every other disk is just the copy of the original that No one knows the location of or exact origin, So Zero Evidence of how the First .Exe disk was made, Meanwhile all there others either copies or just retrieved ones, along with no evidence of actual mind control being at play.

“Cool, DM can move smoke, which is countered by teleporting.”
Teleporting is countered by his Teleporting. He can force him into a stationary position of just bring the Dark Matter mass to him.

“And his reality warping has never been used in a destructive way. Any other of his abilities are physical, tangible attacks, all of which don't let him destroy Exe and a particle level because Exe is too durable for that.”
Its been stated multiple Times in the story and By Daniel Sun, The Devil was Going to Destroy his Universe. So its either his Reality Warping or Reality Destruction, Both of which can kill .Exe. just because he tanks doesn’t mean he’ll survive multiple of the same universe ending attack. Especially when his ability to also warp reality has been taken away.

“They are a hive mind.”
Yes, So Sonic.Exe Influence wouldn’t work.

“They took control of them off screen, that's not "Not struggling", that's just "Didn't see how they took control of the army, therefore we can't tell if it was any different from how they took control of Mario the first time".”
It was different. Unlike Mario, They didn't enter their bodies and that's a fact, as i’ve already proven, All of the Boos were in Mario.

“In the context that DM can only see in a single direction, while Exe doesn't even need eyes and can see thing from an universe away”
If that's the case Devil Mario Isn’t at a disadvantage like you think. There's the Boo Hive Mind and the Fact he can just exert his influence in all directions and snag Sonic.exe without searching for him.

“You have to prove a positive, not a negative.”
Voids aren’t Automatically dark or hard to see.

Edit: Sonic.Exe 2... its something... please don't tell me theres a three, i can't read another story like that bro.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Ok so, I did the smart thing and just asked Daniel directly.

So yeah, Mario can't mind control others without forcing Boos into their bodies, and Daniel either forgot about the Boos inside the Toad army or wrote himself into a corner and ignored them.

Reality Warping, if I were to ignore the problems I have with it, still wouldn't put Exe down.
So far we've only seen it move things around and would be Universal+ because DM is rated Universal+. The obvious use would be to tear Exe apart, but we've already gone over how his body is made out of nondifferentiated parts. If being in pieces is a huge problem he would just turn into smoke, then teleport into a singular place. Mario needs to get rid of the matter making up Exe's body, which can't be done via sheer AP because both are in the same tier, and can't be done via abilities because Mario doesn't have anything like transmutation or existence erasure.

Possesion/Mind Control is countered by Exe being able to physically interact with souls, so he either one-shots the Boos before they enter his body, rips them out of his body before they get to do anything, or gets very creative and shapeshifts his insides to kill the Boos while inside his body. The Boos also can't get him by surprise because Exe's eyes aren't there for a functional purpose and he doesn't need them to see.

I will admit that I just read the beginning of the sequel back then, becuase I knew beforehand that it was focused more in the humans than in the game itself (So I wasn't expecting anything vs relevant past the first few paragraphs), and I really didn't want to read it, so apologies for that. That said, it does give Exe emotional manipulation that works remotely (Again, from an universe away) and makes targets easier to manipulate by Exe. The major flaw it has is that it depends in 7 beings independent from Exe himself, but they are stated to be his extensions so they should at least be as durable as Exe, and Mario would be too busy fighting Exe to hunt them down, on top of the fact that he has no way to tell that the emotional manipulation comes from beings separated from Exe, or to tell he's being emotionally manipulated at all. And no, there being multiple Boos doesn't help resist it, unless every singular Boo is capable of independent thought while somehow syncing to control Mario at the same time.

And no, there's no third part. There's a reboot though.

 

[MicDaniel]

Sorry for the late response.
Isn't that against the wikis rules to ask an author for information like that to help support an argument?
"Do not pester or harass the authors of various works on social media about versus debating or character statistics. They are often bombarded by numerous questions from fans, and thus are rarely interested in giving a serious response. In addition, the statements they give to appease users are often contradictory to the feats in the stories of the works they have written. Thus, it is frowned upon to bother them over these topics."
That's also bit of a low blow and I'm pretty sure if I were to ask him first but word the question differently, the response would be different. You specifically said "Entering Bodies" and didn't even bring up the other interpretation. Either way, not cool dude.

because Mario doesn't have anything like transmutation or existence erasure.
The issue your not understanding is whether its Existence Erasure or Reality Destruction the matter that makes up Sonic.Exe and His smoke form is being hit and he's still taking Damage. Your argument here is formed around Stamina. A good majority of .Exe Power comes from his world that Mario can destroy. The first Universe Destroying attack would Damage .Exe as tanking something doesn't mean you come out unscathed. Now without a world he can manipulate, he massively weaker then before setting at a disadvantage. Not only did he take a hit but a good portion of his power is now gone. the only way he'd be able to properly counter is to create a new world (Devil Mario can just destroy it again) or assume that DM is going to be chasing him the entire time wasting energy or that he can keep outrunning him. At the End of the day, Only one them has reliable reality warping that's not limited to a world they exist in.

Possession/Mind Control is countered by Exe being able to physically interact with souls.
The only time Sonic.Exe interacts with Souls are when someone plays his game creating an opening for him to do so. Sonic.Exe 2 even states that they have be vulnerable first before he gets control over them. The Blackhole Soul eating One-shot is still countered by Devil Mario's Own Reality Warping. Ripping them out won't work either because once there inside, His mind is going to get controlled, Shapeshifting won't work either because they go inside of the Mind, Also how does Shapeshifting kill a creature who can Phase? That like trying to stab water. Being able to see them doesn't mean his impervious to surprise attacks because your forgetting about Devil Mario who can Make an opening at any given moment for the Boos to possess them.

7 Guardians and Emotional Manipulation.
The Seven Guardians would just make things worse for Sonic.Exe. For one, Emotional Manipulation is a sub-power of Mind Control/Possession, So DM would be entirely unaffected thanks to the Boos who would be in charge of Mario's Emotions and have altered them Before, There's also the fact that these Guardians are vulnerable to Possession and Manipulation themselves and have no actual Defense against The Boos who can easily go after them at any given point in time. Then there's Still the fact Devil Mario can just Destroy Sonic.Exe Universe, leaving them More Vulnerable then before giving .Exe no legitimate Counter.

unless every singular Boo is capable of independent thought while somehow syncing to control Mario at the same time.
Toad Army.
This Scene in Particular:

10:07
DM refers to the Hive Mind As WE and not I, meaning the Boos are capable of individual action and thought and have shown not all of them are needed to go inside to keep Mario under wraps, Just Enough.

And no, there's no third part. There's a reboot though.
Coughs up Blood from cringe.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Isn't that against the wikis rules to ask an author for information like that to help support an argument?

1. JBW, not VSBW.
2. Is a very specific phrasing so Daniel either confirms it, or debunks it and explains how it happened. I trust that, had I been wrong, he would say something along the lines of "Yeah, Mario possesed them but he actually did so by..."
In any case, it is very clear that when writing "The host was killed along with the invaders" Daniel doesn't take the army into account. Why? Don't know, don't care. Authors make mistakes sometimes.

because Mario doesn't have anything like transmutation or existence erasure.
Your argument here is formed around Stamina.

Which is not a factor for non-organic beings

A good majority of .Exe Power comes from his world that Mario can destroy.

...no? He's low 2-C because he created and can manipulate his world at will. Destroying his world doesn't unmake him low 2-C, otherwise how did he build it in the first place?

The first Universe Destroying attack would Damage .Exe as tanking something doesn't mean you come out unscathed.

I've said it, turn into smoke and put yourself back togheter.

Now without a world he can manipulate, he massively weaker then before setting at a disadvantage.Not only did he take a hit but a good portion of his power is now gone. the only way he'd be able to properly counter is to create a new world (Devil Mario can just destroy it again)

No, it just means he can't warp reality. He's just as strong.
"You can weaken a planet buster by busting the planet they're on bacaune now they can't bust the planet"
The only way that would work is if Mario takes Sonic out of the void, and Mario doesn't have dimensional travel or BFR.

or assume that DM is going to be chasing him the entire time wasting energy or that he can keep outrunning him. At the End of the day, Only one them has reliable reality warping that's not limited to a world they exist in.

Reality Warping by definition requires you to be in a world. No world = No reality to warp.
If Mario destroys the world the only thing left to manipulate is himself and Sonic, and given his reality warping at the end of the day is just telekinesis and Sonic can teleport, is pretty useless. In fact, from now on I'm refering to Mario's reality warping as telekinesis because the only thing he has done is move things around.

The only time Sonic.Exe interacts with Souls are when someone plays his game creating an opening for him to do so.

Yeah, by shoving his hand into their chest and pulling the soul out. That's non-physical interaction, and in a place where he's weaker no less.

Sonic.Exe 2 even states that they have be vulnerable first before he gets control over them.

Because everything before the soul ripping happens outside of his world, where he's weaker.

The Blackhole Soul eating One-shot is still countered by Devil Mario's Own Reality Warping.

How does that even work?

Ripping them out won't work either because once there inside, His mind is going to get controlled, Shapeshifting won't work either because they go inside of the Mind,

Been thinking about it, and I think the Boos might not even be able to enter his body.
Sonic can grab souls, and whatever limb he uses to do so has to be made out of the same dark matter the rest of his body is made of. So his entire body can physically interact with non-physical objects like souls, meaning Boos can't phaze through it becuse, well, they are trying to phaze through something that can ignore their phazing.

Also how does Shapeshifting kill a creature who can Phase? That like trying to stab water.

That's how non-physical interaction works, unless you want to argue that souls in the crepypasta are physical objects (Which is actually true for the reboot but that's besides the point).

Being able to see them doesn't mean his impervious to surprise attacks because your forgetting about Devil Mario who can Make an opening at any given moment for the Boos to possess them.

How? Mario can't hold Sonic still because Sonic teleports. And can't distract him because, given how his eyes are just shapeshifted dark matter, means he's either blind and doesn't need vision to perceive things, or has omnidirectional vision.

The Seven Guardians would just make things worse for Sonic.Exe. For one, Emotional Manipulation is a sub-power of Mind Control/Possession, So DM would be entirely unaffected thanks to the Boos who would be in charge of Mario's Emotions and have altered them Before,

That's bad for Devil Mario no matter how you look at it.
The Boos have to control Mario (Who already is trying to resist) while fignting the emotional manipulation from 7 different individuals, and potentially Sonic manipulating the Boos themselves because they have evil in their heart. You can't expect them to focus completly into the fight while doing that, specially considering the reason why there are so many Boos inside Mario in the first place is because they already had a hard time controling him.

There's also the fact that these Guardians are vulnerable to Possession and Manipulation themselves and have no actual Defense against The Boos who can easily go after them at any given point in time.

...they don't fight, why would they be within Mario's reach on propouse?

Then there's Still the fact Devil Mario can just Destroy Sonic.Exe Universe, leaving them More Vulnerable then before giving .Exe no legitimate Counter.

Vulnerable how? Their emotional manipulation works from an universe away, they don't have to be anywhere near Mario's field of view

unless every singular Boo is capable of independent thought while somehow syncing to control Mario at the same time.
Toad Army.

The Toad army have their own Boos, you just can't accept a plothole.

This Scene in Particular: video

Yeah, notice how Mario only pulls out two Boos and never tries that again? And remember how the final speech points out Mario fighting the control back which is why more Boos had to enter his body back in episode 2?
So basically the Boos are so good at controling Mario that they can have independent thoughts while doing so, but also they are have such a hard time controlling Mario that hundreds of them are needed and can't afford to expell more than two Boos from his body?

DM refers to the Hive Mind As WE and not I, meaning the Boos are capable of individual action and thought and have shown not all of them are needed to go inside to keep Mario under wraps, Just Enough.

Having pronouns is not evidence of independent thought. Look at Venom who also uses "we" but if it's thoughts differ too much from his host then the symbiosis starts to fail.
Two Boos out of hundreds coming out is also no evidence of independent though, it's just a margin of error for how many Boos are needed to keep Mario in check.

 

[MicDaniel]

JBW, not VSBW.
How does being a Joke Battle mean its not under the effects of the VsBattle site rules or functions outside of them? Either way, what's done is done.

because Mario doesn't have anything like transmutation or existence erasure.
I'm referring to Mario's reality warping as telekinesis because the only thing he has done is move things around.
Well I contacted Daniel like you did. He doesn't Have existence Erasure (possibly, Daniel said he didn't Think So, it's possibly up to interpretation) However, he confirmed that they Had Control over Reality at that Point.

If they succeeded, they would've Destroyed the Universe and Alter Reality, Changing it into a reality only Ghosts Can live in. The Star Moving Feat isn't Telekinesis, It's them warping all of reality at the end of series. So yes, DM can warp Reality.

Which is not a factor for non-organic beings.
Yes it is. You'd need to prove that Sonic.Exe has an inexhaustible sources of energy. Even then, that doesn't mean he can run forever after being critically injured.

no? He's low 2-C because he created and can manipulate his world at will. Destroying his world doesn't unmake him low 2-C, otherwise how did he build it in the first place?
I should've been more specific, My bad. I meant he'd be less powerful in terms of Ability.

I've said it, turn into smoke and put yourself back together.
Still doesn't protect you from Attacks that can Damage Reality Itself.

Reality Warping by definition requires you to be in a world. No world = No reality to warp.
No it doesn't. It Requires Reality to Exist, You don't need to be in a world to warp Reality. As long as your in Reality itself, You can still manipulate it. Sonic.Exe is the One who needs a world (Specifically one he created) to warp Reality.

Yeah, by shoving his hand into their chest and pulling the soul out. That's non-physical interaction, and in a place where he's weaker no less.
Been thinking about it, and I think the Boos might not even be able to enter his body.
That's how non-physical interaction works.
Looking Through Vsbattle Wiki, Nowhere does it say that non-physical interaction protect an individual From Possession. If anything, Shapeshifting won't stop it either as Non-Physical Interaction does not come with the Ability to Harm beings of that nature.
"allowing them to make physical contact and possibly cause harm."
So Sonic.Exe does have the ability to interact with Souls but He's Never hurt a Soul Directly (Fact checked, He doesn't hurt a soul directly in either story) He gives the Soul a body and then hurts the body the soul is trapped in. Even then Non-Physical interaction doesn't Stop something from phasing through or going inside of you.
Dark Danny is an Example as he the product of a ghost entering another ghost.

How does that even work?
Reality Warping. Mario Can Destroy Universes and Alter Reality. The Black Hole Mouth Thing would be Negated by those abilities.

How? Mario can't hold Sonic still because Sonic teleports. And can't distract him because, given how his eyes are just shapeshifted dark matter, means he's either blind and doesn't need vision to perceive things, or has omnidirectional vision.
Yes Mario Can hold him still. He warped reality to the point Space itself spun around, Sonic.Exe wouldn't be able to teleport if Mario forces him back to the same position. Having Omni-Directional Vision does not prevent Tunnel Vision.

The Boos have to control Mario (Who already is trying to resist) while fighting the emotional manipulation from 7 different individuals, and potentially Sonic manipulating the Boos themselves because they have evil in their heart.
The Creepypasta only explains what 2 of the Seven Guardians do when they Manipulate a Persons Emotions, The rest are unknown. Both of which can be easily countered by being Aware of them. Cole and Derek both became aware of them and for multiple days they did not fall prey to there abilities. The Seven Guardians abilities also happen over a course of time, considering the context of the story itself. So, Devil Mario and the Boos have all the time in the world to become Aware of there Manipulation and Start hunting them. It also wouldn't be surprising if Devil Mario kills or Incapacitates Sonic.Exe before any of there Emotion Manipulation Takes effect.

they don't fight, why would they be within Mario's reach on propouse?
Seeing as how Mario can warp Reality, There always within his Range on purpose. He can also just change reality to where the 7 Guardians can't Exist or Survive in, Not needing to go to them at all.

Vulnerable how? Their emotional manipulation works from an universe away, they don't have to be anywhere near Mario's field of view.
Considering the fact there Extensions of X, Being outside of there universe would make them more vulnerable. As for Mario's field of view, he warped all of space with minimal effort. He would be able to tell where the Guardians are or Where Sonic.Exe is.

The Toad army have their own Boos, you just can't accept a plothole.
I am accepting the plot hole. The Plot hole just doesn't Change the fact the Boos can act individually as a separate Consciousness to complete there goal and theres a kingdom worth of them.

So basically the Boos are so good at controling Mario that they can have independent thoughts while doing so, but also they are have such a hard time controlling Mario that hundreds of them are needed and can't afford to expell more than two Boos from his body?
Yes but not all of the Boos are required to Control him. There's a kingdom worth of boos at his disposal. So not all of them are factually required to hold control onto Mario.

Look at Venom who also uses "we" but if it's thoughts differ too much from his host then the symbiosis starts to fail.
Venom, is the worst example you could've used. For one, he's not a hivemind, he's is listed as Multiple Selves which is the exact opposite of Hive Mind. This Wiki acknowledges they are 2 different Consciousness.
The Boos actually meet type 2 Hive Mind:
They are able to act on their own accord individually,
Also it doesn't matter if the boos are a hive mind or Multiple Selves, Both are stated to be resistant to Mind Manipulations, So the 7 Guardians and Sonic.Exe Influence is inaffective.