Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,745
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Unless you wanna say the Power Star has incredibly long invisible arms then I think it moving those stars without physically touching them is textbook telekinesis
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Mario Bros: Lifting Strength Upgrade Attempt #1
- Thread starter AStrangeverse
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Wasn't it established that we can't use textbooks, guides, or manuals for the Mario Bros verse?
Dust_Collector
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No that was never established, we just don't use things from any of that if it contradicts the games, same as literally any other verse with guides and whatnot we haven't just banned that stuff for Mario specifically.
Dunno why you asked since I wasn't talking about anything from any of that, unless you've never heard anyone use the word "textbook" when referring to something that pretty soundly fits the description of something you'd see in a textbook.
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Okay, but that still doesn't prove or directly imply that the Power Star moved the stats with telekinesis.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,745
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Power Star moves stars, does so without physical contact, seems like clear cut telekinesis dunno what to tell ya
Mephistus
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Yeah the movement coincidentally back exactly into place for each star at an irregular distances and then the remaining constellation stars shifting back near where other stars used to be located fits the power.
Other examples include off the top of my head.
Moving giant slabs of a star together in Mario Party 64. This is said to be done with the power of the Power Stars collected in the game proper.
Bowser pulling down meteors in SMG2.
The King pulling down meteors in SMG.
Other examples include off the top of my head.
Moving giant slabs of a star together in Mario Party 64. This is said to be done with the power of the Power Stars collected in the game proper.
Bowser pulling down meteors in SMG2.
The King pulling down meteors in SMG.
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Could be seen as cold, and doesn't say what the reasons were.You could just say a yes or no
That's nonsense. Having the power to move things via TK doesn't add you the weight of what was moved. You don't say that from a place of that logically making sense.
That could be viewed as troll logic, but I know you didn't mean it like that. Moving anything via breath adds the LS of what was moved, if your lungs can withstand that much LS then why wouldn't the rest of your body? Alternatively, a character's ability to breath is so good that the LS only applies to their breath, and not the rest of their physicals. To apply stats they need to be earned, don't just say "why can't", you are pretty much asking in a super vague way if breath, a real thing that can be done with your physical body, isn't the same as a made up supernatural power in terms of how they scale to the rest of what one can do. The answer is obvious.
You're going over your head by saying that those are things that don't make sense. That's not just something people say, they have a reason for saying it too, and here you say things don't make sense in a way that your logic to conclude that is poorly thought out, that's 1 too many steps into the wrong direction.
We can see or have stated what happens in a verse, when things are only shown, they do not need to be stated as well, we can call out what we see based on logic & common sense; The most likely thing that happens is what happens. Moving something w/o contact is TK, that's rather basic to come up with. We can't say other things happened as they are far too unlikely next to saying it was TK.
To note, this is an immensely basic notion to know, the way you got things wrong is in part because you weren't opened minded about it, you in fact skipped to the point of further justifying your take by asking if it was established in guides & stuff, as if that were to support you if that wasn't the case, when the normal thing is to conclude that you were wrong by thinking a bit more about it. I believe it all also comes in part from a place of wanting those new stats to be applied as too much of a priority, and building from there, which if so is a bit of obsession, whereas it should all come from a place of wanting accuracy, w/o impulses of how things should be done doing all the work.
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@Eficiente Okay, first of all...
Can you please stop coming across as callous? Looking over at all your recent replies in this thread, you've been saying some pretty insulting things such as "just agreed with anything that was in favor with how you want things to be, essentially mindlessly", "You're going over your head", and "because you weren't opened minded about it". I'm only trying to make sense out of all of this and give my opinion on what I think, and I don't need you sounding so condescending each time you reply.
I'm sorry if I was rude there, and I didn't mean to derail here, but I would really appreciate it if you could communicate in a more affable manner.
Can you please stop coming across as callous? Looking over at all your recent replies in this thread, you've been saying some pretty insulting things such as "just agreed with anything that was in favor with how you want things to be, essentially mindlessly", "You're going over your head", and "because you weren't opened minded about it". I'm only trying to make sense out of all of this and give my opinion on what I think, and I don't need you sounding so condescending each time you reply.
I'm sorry if I was rude there, and I didn't mean to derail here, but I would really appreciate it if you could communicate in a more affable manner.
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Anyway, I recently came across this thread and I think what @Foxthefox1000 proposed for lifting strength might hold some merit for here. Here's what he has to pitch in...
He states in Mario Party 2, the Power Stars grant Mario a 10x increase in strength, because Mario was unable to throw Bowser in his metal transformation to give him the weight of 10 Bowsers without a Star given to him. He then uses the max number of Power Stars Mario had in Super Mario 64 DS, 150, giving him an 1,500x increase in strength.
To me, it sounds a helluva lot like an inconsistency for Mario being unable to lift Bowser being that heavy, but I think these are a couple fine example of multipliers that @Foxthefox1000 proposed. What's everyone's opinion here?
I know it's probably not appropriate to advertise other threads as it may garner attention away from this one, and I don't mean to derail here once again, but I just thought it could be of some use here.
He states in Mario Party 2, the Power Stars grant Mario a 10x increase in strength, because Mario was unable to throw Bowser in his metal transformation to give him the weight of 10 Bowsers without a Star given to him. He then uses the max number of Power Stars Mario had in Super Mario 64 DS, 150, giving him an 1,500x increase in strength.
To me, it sounds a helluva lot like an inconsistency for Mario being unable to lift Bowser being that heavy, but I think these are a couple fine example of multipliers that @Foxthefox1000 proposed. What's everyone's opinion here?
I know it's probably not appropriate to advertise other threads as it may garner attention away from this one, and I don't mean to derail here once again, but I just thought it could be of some use here.
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Now, for a moment, let's just assume that Mario was carrying around a certain number of Power Stars, as that's how he progresses through some of his games. Knowing that the Power Stars are able to amp up the statistics of whoever wields them along with the reasoning I've listed, I feel like this should denote that Mario's lifting strength for his Power Star key could possibly be higher. If this passes muster, I suggest giving the lifting strength for Mario's Power Star key something like this:
At least Class G, likely higher
At least Class G, likely higher
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I disagree with that being callous, you are being overly sensitive in an unhealthy way. All of that was pertty mild and used to describe the situations around them, they were presented in a way that one can take it or leave it if they feel like it. You even take issue with me saying "Please read the rest of the thread." for some reason while supporting an alternative that's worst. This are things that need to be overcome & matured over, therefore they called out when that doesn't happen, not supported if they don't stand within reason. 1 notable issue I have with the wiki is that the preconceived notion of something bad happening is way to strong to ask for support, w/o nuance and putting one's full attention into it because simply supporting it is presumably the right thing to do, which I obviously find super unhealthy. Kindly think about if that holds any truth.
As a general rule, anyone who wants to keep talking about it can do so to me in a private message, inviting as many people as they feel like, if they do so then please start it with an alternative of what I wrote that I'm actually allowed to write, because that easily shows something about the topic.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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shut the hell up lol
Nearly every thread you're in, you belittle and berate anyone who dares to disagree with you. If someone ever makes a point contrary to your own, they're not merely wrong or "having a different opinion"; In your eyes, they're biased, obsessed, stupid, coping, the list goes on. And despite your position as a thread mod, you continue to berate anyone who takes issue with your behavior, saying they're overly sensitive or immature just for asking you to be kinder.
And don't take this as me getting offended on anyone's behalf. I just despise people like you who speak down to everyone and then turn around and go "well maybe you should stop being such a little bitch about it"; Ironically, it displays the very kind of flawed mentality you project onto others. Step back, quit taking this hobby so seriously, and do a little self reflection on why you feel the need to be an asshole to everyone who disagrees with you. Did me a hell of a lot of good, so I'm not just talking out of my ass here.
Anyways, I do agree with JT's point about the multiplier thread; It displays that Power Stars do indeed amplify physical lifting strength, and while it's not multi-stellar LS in and of itself, it should make the scaling presented here less questionable. With that in mind, I think I can see a 'possibly' rating at worst.
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That certainly did not sound mild at all nor is it an excuse for you to say such things like "you're going over your head". Regardless of that issue, you need to take into account how other people take the things you say if you don't want it to be "unhealthy", and have more of an open mind to things they propose.
I don't wanna have to ask you this again. Please, try to communicate in a more affable manner; you are already making it more unhealthy. That means you too, @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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IMHO, we don't know how each Star beyond the first increases the LS.
We don't know if it's additive, multiplicative, or whatever.
Maybe 1 star gets someone to a certain benchmark, but it takes far more to get to the next?
So I think assuming a 10x multiplier applied to the entire total Star count is assuming too much.
Just because you go 10x from one doesn't mean having 150 means going 1,500x.
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Fair enough; thank you.
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My point is we don't know how much a Power Star increases LS by beyond the first providing a "far more than 10x" multiplier, due to this making Mario/MP2-Player-Character-of-Choice able to lift & throw something they're currently unable to lift/throw 10x as heavy as what they could normally lift & throw, & doing so to absurd effectiveness.
Put another way:
1. The MP2 player characters is implied to normally be able to lift & throw Bowser by the tail, given how readily they take up his challenge before he reveals his Metal Bowser form.
2. Metal Bowser is stated to have the weight of 10 Bowsers.
3. The revelation of Metal Bowser makes the character drop Metal Bowser from their hold on his tail, unable to lift/swing/throw him, & so they despair.
4. After receiving a single Power Star, they go from being unable to lift/swing/throw Metal Bowser to throw him into the upper atmosphere/space.
Especially if we're considering that swinging Bowser by the tail as referencing what Mario does in SM64 (Which was relatively recent compared to MP2.), which is just throwing Bowser -Not Metal Bowser- across a battlefield, it's clear the boost was well beyond what was necessary for a typical Bowser throw that might be expected to be used in his defeat.
So I'd say the boost is definitely far over 10x, we just don't know how far.
& my mentioning of benchmarks was just for explanation's sake. I'm skeptical of the notion that I know what, if any benchmarks canonically exist in the Mario franchise.
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What part of "anyone who wants to keep talking about it can do so to me in a private message, inviting as many people as they feel like" was it not clear? I find that to be an over exaggeration and parody of what I do, a reckless control of the narrative for people easily influenceable to fall for it. People do this all too often while never bothering to talk about the thing that started what they complain about in the first place, nor do they ever bother to ever talk about those "past actions" they always love to point out in any depth, it's an infinite pool of sources that don't need to be sourced at all, they just appeal to the idea they want to sell & leave it at that. Actually bother to talk with me in a private message about the topic at hand if you really care, w/o making a scene for everyone to see.
As I said before, "anyone who wants to keep talking about it can do so to me in a private message, inviting as many people as they feel like, if they do so then please start it with an alternative of what I wrote that I'm actually allowed to write, because that easily shows something about the topic."
That is all pretty mild, although I will ask other staff in private to be super safe. As I said before I find unhealthy to use the preconceived notion of something bad happening when something bad isn't happening; As in, things like "take into account how other people take the things" and "be nicer" are often correct points to make, but when one isn't being inappropriate & below the proper standards to call them out on that so that they do it even better and believe oneself to be wronged because of it is an excuse and self-victimization. Which is bad. I can be debated about it, I never am, it's not good enough to believe yourself correct you also need to be able to explain it properly.
I will delete any further drama about it. If anyone feels like being constructive you already know what to do.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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That's a lot of words for "do not criticize me publicly and if you do I'll delete your posts". Simply take responsibility and learn to debate without melting down.
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@Eficiente @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara Do I have to get in touch with administrators here? Didn't I ask you two to keep things civil? Seriously, please stop!
Ped2018
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Idk man, Fujiwara spitting rn
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- Thread starter
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man, I ain't even sure all of this will matter, cuz we encountering a bit of a problem in the 5th Overhaul CRT
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Enough already! Please, let's just continue with the purpose of the entire thread.
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Okay, so iinm, we also had Mario at Pre-Stellar lifting strength because of this calculation. Can someone remind we why it was removed?
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A problem?
Explanation &/or link to relevant post, please?
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the Power Stars page lists a few abilities that come from the Mario Party titles
issue is, Power Stars are not the same as the stars shown in Mario Party
and here's the link
Mephistus
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@JTGamer96
The telekinesis for LS could stack if all the Stars / Power Stars are using it separately at once on an object. So you could get a stack boost depending on how many the users can carry at once; Mario Party 4 to 7 has them hold 999 on hand and no more. So multiply the result out if you wanted for a key for Standard Battle Assumptions. It'd be higher into Multi-Stellar LS and multiplying by AP it would breach into 4-B.
Maybe we can split them up I guess if we don't think they are the same artifacts, but there is the case in the first Mario Party for moving the chunks of the Eternal Star back into place too for your tk example. Its not like Power Stars haven't been called Stars with an uppercase S before. If they don't grant temporary invincibility and rather the power boost shown in MP2 its a reasonable assumption to say they are the same item.
For the Pre-stellar black hole thing, its floating by itself and sustaining itself at best and Mario doesn't have to exert anything, at worst its mass had been reverted due to transforming and not crushing Mario with its gravity as it would if it retained it. Plus most of the evidence for it having a event horizon is gone because we don't utilize Prima Guides.
The telekinesis for LS could stack if all the Stars / Power Stars are using it separately at once on an object. So you could get a stack boost depending on how many the users can carry at once; Mario Party 4 to 7 has them hold 999 on hand and no more. So multiply the result out if you wanted for a key for Standard Battle Assumptions. It'd be higher into Multi-Stellar LS and multiplying by AP it would breach into 4-B.
Maybe we can split them up I guess if we don't think they are the same artifacts, but there is the case in the first Mario Party for moving the chunks of the Eternal Star back into place too for your tk example. Its not like Power Stars haven't been called Stars with an uppercase S before. If they don't grant temporary invincibility and rather the power boost shown in MP2 its a reasonable assumption to say they are the same item.
For the Pre-stellar black hole thing, its floating by itself and sustaining itself at best and Mario doesn't have to exert anything, at worst its mass had been reverted due to transforming and not crushing Mario with its gravity as it would if it retained it. Plus most of the evidence for it having a event horizon is gone because we don't utilize Prima Guides.
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Alright, so who's on board with this? What does everyone think?
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That's fair, but the Mario Bros and their friends are known for outmaneuvering black holes, right? Does anyone have any scans of Power Stars creating black holes and one or more of the characters escaping them?
Mephistus
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That's "merely" Class P though even for ones when they get super really, really close and assuming its all realistic enough ( standards are pretty strict ).
Going by the force for the jump using the linked blog here near the hole assuming about a third of his height for the force for a back of a napkin calc (using 1.55 meters based on the life sized statue, some say Mario is 1.55 m tall based on Odyssey balloon in game statements for meters unit of measuring and comparing that...we have Mario in a costume for official appearances (Mario if he real!) ala Mickey Mouse so its roughly what we'd expect anyway for semi-official numbers);
1.6560496E17 / (1.55/(1/3)) = 3.56139699E16 Newtons / Class P
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Alright, let's just make sure the math is correct here.
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Oh yeah, my bad. Thanks!
Do you think you could still put the equation in the calculation you performed? Or in another blog?
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Mephistus
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Great! Now that we got it accepted, we just need someone to unlock the Mario Bros' and everyone else's profile to add it.
DDM, would you be willing to unlock the profiles for us, please?
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Looks alright, but what profiles need unlocking?
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Mario and Luigi so far.
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I opened Mario Bros profiles.
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Alright, I've added the changes.
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