Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[EldemadeDityjon]

saying anos overcame it with just raw power sounds like a wierd itchy NLF. coz on what basis are u judging his power. we dont know the true extent of his power and i doubt we ever will..
i suggest he should have resistance to transduality negetion in his profile..

Also didnt graham say his and anos's source are like the same. graham turns everything into nothingess and anos truns it into destruction including nothingness itself

He was probably joking

 

[wwereymy235]

saying anos overcame it with just raw power sounds like a wierd itchy NLF. coz on what basis are u judging his power. we dont know the true extent of his power and i doubt we ever will..
i suggest he should have resistance to transduality negetion in his profile..

Also didnt graham say his and anos's source are like the same. graham turns everything into nothingess and anos truns it into destruction including nothingness itself

Well Anos can destroy the reason of NLF

 

[Tatsumi504]

It should be type 2 for corruption tho, just reminding.

Yeah, also

Nedra

The magic is mainly used to transform animals. It uses animal nature and demon nature that exist in animals' sources. Nedra enhances physical abilities depending on the animal it is applied to and the power of the caster. Sometimes the target intelligence decreases, other times it increases, and sometimes it increases enough that they become able to understand human language. Additionally, the animal that has Nedra cast on it changes its appearance into that of a demon. In the present Dilhade, unless certain conditions are met, Nedra is forbidden from being used.

Humans that have sense are hard to demonize, but it is not impossible. Human demonization is different from other animals, probably due to their inherently high intelligence. The desire, malice, and hate of a demonized human will manifest in their outward appearance.

Corruption is the ability to "infect" someone or something with one's power, making said person or thing into a different being or state of being than it was before. This ability can be similar to Mind Manipulation (and potentially some of its facets) or Possession, in that the opponent becomes what you want them to be, but normally, once infected, the "corruptor" doesn't have to do anything for the "corruptee" to become corrupted.

Corruption can possibly be done through the aforementioned methods, along with things such as Disease Manipulation, Biological Manipulation, Absorption, and more, but it can also be done in such a way that there's no other way to classify it other than corruption. Despite the negative connotation of the word "corruption", it's possible for this power to be used to make someone a better individual, though this is an incredibly rare application.

Transmutation is the ability to alter the form of energy, beings, objects, matter, etc. to change it into something else.

This ability has a variety of applications, including transmuting nearby objects into useful items or nullifying attacks by turning them into something else. More specialized versions can turn forcibly transmute or transform targets into other inanimate objects or vastly weaker beings (i.e. a common toad), effectively incapacitating or killing them.

Yeah, it's definitely both corruption and transmutation. Should be updated. @Dereck03 would you do the honors?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yeah, also



Yeah, it's definitely both corruption and transmutation. Should be updated. @Dereck03 would you do the honors?

@EldemadeDityjon Wanna add it to the common abilities page? Also resistance to corruption and possession for gods

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@EldemadeDityjon Wanna add it to the common abilities page? Also resistance to corruption and possession for gods

Actually I brought up the information manipulation type 2 long back ago you said Nedra doesn't Qualifies for it. Anyway yeah it should be added to Common abilities page. Btw source information type 2 manipulation should be more potent i think it's not all can do that.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Does misfit verse has paradigm shift?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Well, looks like resistance to poison manipulation for gods can stay. I found a scan equating poison resistance and alcohol tolerance.
Also same scan equates resistance to the amount of magic power you have so layers here we come.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Why does madoka still has type 5 acausality ??

 

[Tatsumi504]

Can you send it?

WN Chapter 286.

I'm not going to let you guys down. Don't worry. My magical power has increased a lot since then, and my resistance to poison has become stronger. I can withstand lethal poisons, so I shouldn't be intoxicated by alcohol.- sasha

 

[Tatsumi504]

I'm not sure how we can work with that but that's a good start.

How? With this

WN Chapter 288.

Ha-ha-ha, I think they say the other one is 120 degrees or something?　It's not like alcohol anymore, it's more like poison. ...... - Misa

Degrees here is referring to the alcohol content. 120% alcohol, misa says it's no longer alcohol and just poison.

 

[oberon]

Why does madoka still has type 5 acausality ??

noone edited it probbably

 

[Tatsumi504]

I'm not questioning the context itself if it's poison or not, but the way of how we would scale the layers of resistance according to the magic power.

With this alone we can only argue for 1 layer of resistance.

Just scale the characters ranking according to magic power which I'm secretly working on

 

[Fixxed]

Lets discuss about tier 1

1. We have bubble that consider the 2A structure as micro (microcosm), thats mean low 1C structure but 5D
My goal is to make the bubble not only 5D but 6D. So i think the argument will like the 2A structure or the santuary is only a subset in gods world/azure sky, and it will make azure skyy to 5D and then the sky is only subset in much bigger structure, that is the bubble, so bubble will get 6D
Anyone has other argument???

2. The layer makes the bubble is only subset in it to, so the layer is higher D structure beyond the bubble

3. And silver sea make the layer is subset in it, and have it own timeline, also are the higher infinity beyond everything mentioned above

4. Each layer are qualitative superior to each other, so each layer will get higher D. The chief god that the world it self, a higher D being, is very inferior to every person that live in deeper layer, even inhabitants in deeper layer can use the world in shalow layer as piece in shogi game. The different between shalow and deeper layer is stated in novel being the different of the dimension it self

 

[Yohata]

Why does madoka still has type 5 acausality ??

Same for Arceus

 

[Yohata]

Lets discuss about tier 1

1. We have bubble that consider the 2A structure as micro (microcosm), thats mean low 1C structure but 5D
My goal is to make the bubble not only 5D but 6D. So i think the argument will like the 2A structure or the santuary is only a subset in gods world/azure sky, and it will make azure skyy to 5D and then the sky is only subset in much bigger structure, that is the bubble, so bubble will get 6D
Anyone has other argument???

2. The layer makes the bubble is only subset in it to, so the layer is higher D structure beyond the bubble

3. And silver sea make the layer is subset in it, and have it own timeline, also are the higher infinity beyond everything mentioned above

4. Each layer are qualitative superior to each other, so each layer will get higher D. The chief god that the world it self, a higher D being, is very inferior to every person that live in deeper layer, even inhabitants in deeper layer can use the world in shalow layer as piece in shogi game. The different between shalow and deeper layer is stated in novel being the different of the dimension it self

I remember that The difference between layers was rejected

But i think the bubble one should work

 

[Tatsumi504]

We have bubble that consider the 2A structure as micro (microcosm), thats mean low 1C structure but 5D

Also Anos stating that the only way to destroy the land of trades was to leave footprints bigger than it.
You can't be bigger than 2-A as any number of 2-A is still 2-A this means he used 5D AP

 

[Yohata]

Also Anos stating that the only way to destroy the land of trades was to leave footprints bigger than it.
You can't be bigger than 2-A as any number of 2-A is still 2-A this means he used 5D AP

It doesn't work like this
I tried to upgrade layer to low 1-C
Saying that the layer is bigger than the 2-A bubble but it was rejected

 

[Orioreeem]

. The layer makes the bubble is only subset in it to, so the layer is higher D structure beyond the bubble

3. And silver sea make the layer is subset in it, and have it own timeline, also are the higher infinity beyond everything mentioned above

4. Each layer are qualitative superior to each other, so each layer will get higher D. The chief god that the world it self, a higher D being, is very inferior to every person that live in deeper layer, even inhabitants in deeper layer can use the world in shalow layer as piece in shogi game. The different between shalow and deeper layer is stated in novel being the different of the dimension it self

You'd need proof that they are subsets. Also pretty sure it's stated that not every being is superior to chief god of lower layer

 

[Tatsumi504]

Also, i don't see it getting past 6D

 

[Caduz213]

1. We have bubble that consider the 2A structure as micro (microcosm), thats mean low 1C structure but 5D
My goal is to make the bubble not only 5D but 6D. So i think the argument will like the 2A structure or the santuary is only a subset in gods world/azure sky, and it will make azure skyy to 5D and then the sky is only subset in much bigger structure, that is the bubble, so bubble will get 6D
Anyone has other argument???

I believe it might work. But what about the bubble world? They're unevolved worlds that are below layer 1, aren't they? How will they be ranked?

2. The layer makes the bubble is only subset in it to, so the layer is higher D structure beyond the bubble

3. And silver sea make the layer is subset in it, and have it own timeline, also are the higher infinity beyond everything mentioned above

4. Each layer are qualitative superior to each other, so each layer will get higher D. The chief god that the world it self, a higher D being, is very inferior to every person that live in deeper layer, even inhabitants in deeper layer can use the world in shalow layer as piece in shogi game. The different between shalow and deeper layer is stated in novel being the different of the dimension it self

Sounds good to me, but I am not sure if it will be accepted by others

 

[Orioreeem]

Also, i don't see it getting past 6D

I don't see it getting past 5D

Also Anos stating that the only way to destroy the land of trades was to leave footprints bigger than it.
You can't be bigger than 2-A as any number of 2-A is still 2-A this means he used 5D AP

This is assuming LoT is 2-A

 

[Caduz213]

I don't see it getting past 5D

Would the structure of the Silver Sea be just 5D for you?

 

[Orioreeem]

Well I guess. Bubbles probably wouldn't even be infinite in 5D, so you can't even being to argue higher tiers via size and subsets. Tho there is that temporal dimension of SS so that will probably be enough for 6D

 

[Tatsumi504]

I don't see it getting past 5D

Exactly, I was just being generous.

This is assuming LoT is 2

Why won't it be 2-A? It holds traces of everything in the militia world's 700 million+ timeline, it's size stated to be endless/ infinite. Not to mention it took 6 steps to completely destroy it while eques got smoked in 5

 

[Tatsumi504]

Well I guess. Bubbles probably wouldn't even be infinite in 5D, so you can't even being to argue higher tiers via size and subsets. Tho there is that temporal dimension of SS so that will probably be enough for 6D

But no one except Anos and Venuzdonoa would scale to it so it's useless.
I also don't fancy getting stuck at 5D, the 6D low 1-C's would just bully you

 

[Tatsumi504]

Gonna be off topic but how is Eugo even keeping his no.1 7-B spot in non-smurfs list?

 

[Orioreeem]

Why won't it be 2-A? It holds traces of everything in the militia world's 700 million+ timeline

Not 2-A

it's size stated to be endless/ infinite.

Yea spatial size not temporal

Not to mention it took 6 steps to completely destroy it while eques got smoked in 5

He used fire spell on Eques and was just walking when he destroyed LoT. For all we know if he used fire spell on LoT, he could've destroyed it in equal or less steps

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Lets discuss about tier 1

1. We have bubble that consider the 2A structure as micro (microcosm), thats mean low 1C structure but 5D
My goal is to make the bubble not only 5D but 6D. So i think the argument will like the 2A structure or the santuary is only a subset in gods world/azure sky, and it will make azure skyy to 5D and then the sky is only subset in much bigger structure, that is the bubble, so bubble will get 6D
Anyone has other argument???

I have an scan for backing up Azure sky being infinite size. This might work.

2. The layer makes the bubble is only subset in it to, so the layer is higher D structure beyond the bubble

Layer 0 should be infinite bubbles

3. And silver sea make the layer is subset in it, and have it own timeline, also are the higher infinity beyond everything mentioned above

Actually Silver Sea itself has different timeline not that each layer has a different timeline.

4. Each layer are qualitative superior to each other, so each layer will get higher D. The chief god that the world it self, a higher D being, is very inferior to every person that live in deeper layer, even inhabitants in deeper layer can use the world in shalow layer as piece in shogi game. The different between shalow and deeper layer is stated in novel being the different of the dimension it self

About this they are using the complete fire dew of the world so technically complete Reality of the world is used as a Shogi piece.

Also there is magic bullet world which was planning to use Silver Bubbles as bullets ( not sure how they were gonna do it)

Vortex which can even swallow small worlds

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well I guess. Bubbles probably wouldn't even be infinite in 5D, so you can't even being to argue higher tiers via size and subsets. Tho there is that temporal dimension of SS so that will probably be enough for 6D

You don't need infinite 5D bubble. You need a structure which is Infinitely above lower dimensional structure. It should make lower dimensional structure very small that's all.

You'd need proof that they are subsets. Also pretty sure it's stated that not every being is superior to chief god of lower layer

Higher dimensional existence doesn't mean all scales above lower dimensional character. But the statments you are refering to only applies to fodder characters. Head State and Chief God does scale above shallow layer Chief Gods

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I remember that The difference between layers was rejected

But i think the bubble one should work

Well previous thread had no much context.

Also Deeper layers can be argued for higher dimensionality with 3 statements which backs it up.and other feats and statements.

 

[Orioreeem]

Higher dimensional existence doesn't mean all scales above lower dimensional character. But the statments you are refering to only applies to fodder characters. Head State and Chief God does scale above shallow layer Chief Gods

And for difference between layers to count for tier 1 you need to have even the weakest being in higher layer to be superior to EVERY being on lower layer

 

[Fixxed]

I have an scan for backing up Azure sky being infinite size. This might work.

Show me

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

And for difference between layers to count for tier 1 you need to have even the weakest being in higher layer to be superior to EVERY being on lower layer

Not really. I am going according to wiki standard only

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone. If a character is merely stated to be higher-dimensional and simultaneously has no other feats to derive anything noteworthy from, then they are put at Unknown, and the same applies to lower dimensions as well.

 

[Fixxed]

And for difference between layers to count for tier 1 you need to have even the weakest being in higher layer to be superior to EVERY being on lower layer

Yes, it is. Default existance from person in deeper layer is more powerfull then anything else in shallow layer

And i sure, i read in novel, jusy by existance, person in deeper layer can make world in shallow layer get destroyed because cant endure they existance

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Show me

　鮮やかな蒼穹に星のように散りばめられているのは、黄金の火山や白色の湖、いばらの大地、車輪のような街など、色とりどりの様々な風景だ。

　Scattered like stars across the brilliant azure sky are a variety of colorful landscapes, including golden volcanoes, white lakes, thorny lands, and wheel-like cities.

「じゃ、どうすればいいのかしら……？　虱潰しに探すっていっても、神域はこの数でしょ？　それに敵地の真っ直中だし……」

"Then what do we do? ......　Even if you search every square inch of the sanctuary, there are only so many of them.　And we're right in the middle of hostile territory. ......"

「樹理四神の座す場所は、蒼穹の深淵。自らの神域でこそ、彼らはその本領を発揮することができる」

"The place where the four deities of Juri sit is the abyss of the azure sky. Only in their own divine realm can they display their true nature."

　鮮やかな青の空と、周囲に浮かぶいくつもの神域。
　よくよく見れば、それらは球を形成している。

　そして、その中心に、一際大きな四つの神域が連なっていた。
　ミーシャがその中の一つに指をさす。

　A bright blue sky and a number of sacred areas floating around it.
　If you look closely, they form a sphere.

　At the center of the sphere were four large sanctuaries.
　Misha pointed to one of them.

「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」

　枯れた花も一本と数えるため、生誕神の力でも一三万より増やすことはできぬのだろう。
　ウェンゼルの秩序もまた、大きな秩序の歯車の一つだ。

"Each sanctuary is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the root of the world is fixed, the number of fire dewdrops in da ku kadate is fixed, as is the number of flowers in this divine realm."

　Since even a withered flower counts as one, even the power of the god of birth could not possibly increase it above 130,000.
　Wenzel's order is another cog in the larger order.

「ふむ。まあ、外といっても様々だ。お前たちが生まれたのは、樹理廻庭園ダ・ク・カダーテの一つ、枯焉砂漠。樹理廻庭園には更に三つの神域があり、その外には数多無数の神域がある。そこは神々の蒼穹と呼ばれる、神族たちの国。神界の門をくぐれば、俺が生まれた魔族の国や、人間の国がある」

"Hmmm. Well, there are many ways to say outside. You were born in the Karewake Desert, one of the gardens of Daku Kadate. There are three more sanctuaries in the Garden of Jurisprudence, and countless sanctuaries outside of the Garden of Jurisprudence. It is called the azure sky of the gods, the land of the god clans. If you pass through the gates of the divine realms, you will find the land of the demon tribe in which I was born and the land of human beings."

　俺は蜃気楼に飛び込んだ。
　ミーシャもサーシャも後に続く。

　一瞬にも満たないほどの僅かな猶予。
　灯滅せんとして光を増し、その光をもちて灯滅を克す。

　その瞬間をこれまで幾度となく見た俺の魔眼ならば、神界の深淵、このダ・ク・カダーテの更に底が、見えるはずだ。

　恐らくは、ミーシャとサーシャにも。
　刹那、僅かな光を捉え、俺はそこへ手を伸ばした。

　俺の体は目映い輝きに包まれ、そして、景色がぱっと変わった。

　空だ。
　果てしなく雲海が広がっている。

　俺たちの体は落下していた。

「ここって……？」

「樹理廻庭園の深淵の底？」

　サーシャとミーシャが言う。
　空には、大量の火露が蛍のように舞い、俺たちと同じように落ちていた。

「そのようだな」

　眼下に視線を向ける。

　I jumped into the mirage.
　Misha and Sasha follow.

　A brief respite of less than a second.
　The light increases to destroy the light, and the light conquers the destruction of the light.

　My magical eye, which has seen this moment many times before, should be able to see the abyss of the divine world, the depths of this Da Ku Kadate.

　Perhaps even Misha and Sasha.
　A moment later, I caught a glimmer of light and reached for it.

　My body was enveloped in a dazzling radiance, and then the view suddenly changed.

　It was the sky.
　An endless sea of clouds.

　Our bodies were falling.

"Is this ......?"

At the bottom of the abyss in the Jurikai Garden?

　Sasha and Misha said.
　In the sky, a large number of fire dewflies were dancing like fireflies, falling just like us.

"Looks like it."

　I look down below us.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yea spatial size not temporal

Infinite spatial size that holds traces of everything that has been in existence. Traces= past of everything meaning uncountable infinite snapshots of everything. This is 4D, 3D space cannot hold 4D objects

 

[Tatsumi504]

He used fire spell on Eques and was just walking when he destroyed LoT. For all we know if he used fire spell on LoT, he could've destroyed it in equal or less steps

Egil grone angdroa was used in the land of trades and it did nothing

 

[Orioreeem]

I'm not saying it's not 4d, I'm saying it's not infinite 4D(infinite in temporal sense or 2-A)

Infinite spatial size that holds traces of everything that has been in existence. Traces= past of everything meaning uncountable infinite snapshots of everything. This is 4D, 3D space cannot hold 4D objects

Egil grone angdroa was used in the land of trades and it did nothing

Yea stop right there circular scaling

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yea stop right there circular scaling

Circular scaling? What's wrong with it?

 

[Orioreeem]

Egil Grone Androga can destroy a bubble yet it was contained in LoT so we are saying LoT > bubble but then LoT is just a microcosm of bubble