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Many worlds interpretation
- Thread starter Sniper670
- Start date
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Iirc, here by default MWI is multi, multi+ if there are proofs of infinite possibilities
What I wanted to know (related to the thread where this question comes from) is what if, following MWI, in a single world there is an infinite amount of people, each of which does an action which creates another world with infinite people (infinite worlds), each of which creates another world with infinite people (infinity^infinity worlds), each of which creates another world with infinite people (infinity^infinity^infinity ?) and so on
I wanted to know if such logic could be applied or, if it's wrong, why it's wrong. Mayor I'll do a thread of that later
I wanted to know if such logic could be applied or, if it's wrong, why it's wrong. Mayor I'll do a thread of that later
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Good question. I mean, just a bog standard MWI multiverse could be considered to be an infinite set of natural numbers (countably infinite), but if each of those universes in the MWI structure spawns it's own MWI multiverse, would it eventually grow to the extent of being more akin to an infinite set of real numbers (uncountably infinite)?
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Following
Cat275
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The many-worlds interpretation implies that there are most likely an uncountably infinite number of universes.[11] It is one of many multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. MWI views time as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realised. This is intended to resolve some paradoxes of quantum theory, such as the EPR paradox[5]: 462 [2]: 118 and Schrödinger's cat,[1] since every possible outcome of a quantum event exists in its own universe.
[Seems like atleast Low1C to me]
[Seems like atleast Low1C to me]
Vietthai96
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Here everything depend on context, so it could be well 2-C up to 2-A and even Low 1-C (5D) at best
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Depending on what causes the other world's to be created.
Cat275
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Uncountable infinite seems fine.
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Good question. For my cosmology and understanding, MWI can be as 'low' as 2-A/2-B to as high as High 1-B/1-A.
Generally speaking, unlike most other cosmologies like Brane Multiverses or Inflation Multiverses, there is no 'need' for a higher spatial dimension of 4-D or higher.
MWI branches the multiverse based on a single dimension of time. This basically means it can be as low as regular, 4-D space like in a 2-A multiverse to as high as High 1-B/1-A if you use hilbert space or beyond (IE: You are using beyond countably infinite dimensional BUT you are still following the rules of the multiverse branching as long as the dimension you are working with has time.).
There is 4 levels of multiverses according to Max Tegmark. You can think of them as extra 'sets' of one another. The tldr of each in plain english can be approximated too.
1. Quilted Multiverse (3-D + 1 Dimension of Time.)
2. Inflation Multiverse/Brane Multiverse (As few as 4-D including space and time, or as high as 11-D for a Brane multiverse based on string theory/m theory.)\
3. MWI (Like I said, as few as 4-D (an extension of our spatial-temporal understanding.) to Countably Infinite/Uncountably Infinite-D
4. Math Multiverse. (Same as 3, but can include Uncountably Infinite/Beyond.)
Of course, there isn't really a current fictional approximation for 4. I can think of a basic 2-A multiverse for 3 like Rick and Morty generally or a High 1-B/1-A as like, Warhammmer 40k where the temporal branching is done in a parallel, infinite dimension (IE: The Warp.)
The timecodes for each, to get a general explanation of either.
1: 5:36
2: 20:20
3: 42:24
4: 1:00:35
Tldr: Just be careful with how many dimensions with MWI there are. If it just seems to be an extension of our multiverse, it should be 2-B/2-A if either 'endless' or countably infinite.
Source:
Generally speaking, unlike most other cosmologies like Brane Multiverses or Inflation Multiverses, there is no 'need' for a higher spatial dimension of 4-D or higher.
MWI branches the multiverse based on a single dimension of time. This basically means it can be as low as regular, 4-D space like in a 2-A multiverse to as high as High 1-B/1-A if you use hilbert space or beyond (IE: You are using beyond countably infinite dimensional BUT you are still following the rules of the multiverse branching as long as the dimension you are working with has time.).
There is 4 levels of multiverses according to Max Tegmark. You can think of them as extra 'sets' of one another. The tldr of each in plain english can be approximated too.
1. Quilted Multiverse (3-D + 1 Dimension of Time.)
2. Inflation Multiverse/Brane Multiverse (As few as 4-D including space and time, or as high as 11-D for a Brane multiverse based on string theory/m theory.)\
3. MWI (Like I said, as few as 4-D (an extension of our spatial-temporal understanding.) to Countably Infinite/Uncountably Infinite-D
4. Math Multiverse. (Same as 3, but can include Uncountably Infinite/Beyond.)
Of course, there isn't really a current fictional approximation for 4. I can think of a basic 2-A multiverse for 3 like Rick and Morty generally or a High 1-B/1-A as like, Warhammmer 40k where the temporal branching is done in a parallel, infinite dimension (IE: The Warp.)
The timecodes for each, to get a general explanation of either.
1: 5:36
2: 20:20
3: 42:24
4: 1:00:35
Tldr: Just be careful with how many dimensions with MWI there are. If it just seems to be an extension of our multiverse, it should be 2-B/2-A if either 'endless' or countably infinite.
Source:
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Many worlds is 2-B. Most probably the highest level of 2-B possible without reaching into 2-A, but still 2-B nonetheless.
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If a story just says "there are many worlds", there's nothing suggesting that it's uncountably infinite. It would be a stretch to assume it's referencing a wikipedia article with just these lines, and stories with multiverses more often than not would point out whether there's an infinite number of universes in the first place. It'll just be 2-C as that's the most reasonable assumption.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's a mantra we stick to and should stick to.
If it is truly referencing some theories IRL then I suppose if that's the case, then the cosmology's interpretation would naturally follow what the theory says.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's a mantra we stick to and should stick to.
If it is truly referencing some theories IRL then I suppose if that's the case, then the cosmology's interpretation would naturally follow what the theory says.
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Not always. Not even scientists agree on this.
There is two interpertations I have seen.
The first is that there is a finite number of material in our base universe and thus there is only a large (but still trans-finite iiirc) of universes within the multiverse, that would be 2-B here. This is based on the idea of the laws of physics being generally being symmetric across the multiverse.
Or 2-A at the very minimum if there is different physical constants possible in the quantum vacuum.
Source and Quotes: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.14042.pdf
"We argue through basic topological properties of Cantor space that under certain assumptions about the spacetime structure and causation, given any event x, if all worldlines extending the event x are ‘eventually deterministic’, then within the many-worlds interpretation the number of alternate universes with respect to x is exactly ℵ0" (N0 is Aleph Null/Naught, so countably infinite)
"On the other hand if we do not have any restriction on the lifespan of universes, then clearly there may be infinitely many possible worlds."
"For every event x, since there are finitely many atoms—by I(b) and I(d)— there can only be finitely many events y1, . . . , yn such that yi is the immediate successor (or immediate effect) of x, meaning that x < a < yi for no event a (See Section 2.2 for details)." (2-B interpertation here.)
"Given an event x, a split of at least two immediate effects of x defines incomparable spacetime events (see Figure 1). In the MWI, thus, a split is usually considered as a way of defining alternate universes." (The fundamental core of MWI, an event creates any causal chain of events in its unique world line, it requires time so can be as high or low as you want it according to our systems.)
"The number of paths that 8 start with b and end up with l is clearly finite. This then has no effect on the number of worldlines in the future of b if the future of b contains infinitely many paths" (Another 2-B statement in the paper, but acknowledges there is an infinite number of paths.)
And so on. There are other papers I use but cannot cite immediately that imply a 2-A cosmology by stating there is a countably/uncountably infinite number of branches.
Edit: Of course, MWI is the most flexible but also controversial theory in science. It is considered mostly unprovable and untestable so really any number of dimensions and timelines are 'acceptable'. There could be an infinitely discrete number of values and variables or just a very large, but finite number. So take what I say with a grain of salt. Analysis should be done by case by case basis, with evidence.
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Our universe has infinite possibilities. For example, there's an infinite number of points between 2 objects
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Theories aside, the best way to go about it is to see how the verse itself treats it. A verse can be 2-A or even higher while having many worlds, but as a baseline it would indeed be 2-B.
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A finite world can generate up to 2B at best but if the world is infinite along with matter then it could be 2A possibly low 1C.
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Oh most definitely! Type 3 is the most flexible like I said in that it is like a bigger set of 1 and 2.
and yes, a 2 could be a Low 1-C, a 1-C, or whatnot. But that doesnt necessarily mean this trait is ’inherited’ in Type 3.
Usually for 1 and 2, space is the separating factor for different universes/timelines. But not for 3. And for 3, since it is reliant on time, it can be as low or high as you want it.
I used to think MTG, one of my favorite universes followed a Type 3 model, but upon closer inspection, it is closer to a hybrid of Types 1 and 2.
I didnt mean to like, catch ya on the spot my dude. It gets nuanced very quickly. Alot of fictional cosmologies can get complicated quickly.
Best to just cite your evidence on how many branches in type 3 are possible. Because you are right, it is case by case. It can never be as simple as “Lul 2-A! Can‘t wait to make my matches!”
Because Type 3 is ontologically seperated by Types 1 and 2 that on the surface, it is hard to guesstimate the number based on just the multiverse description.
Plus, we didnt bring up Type 4 and that can also include MWI, but I am lazy and dont want too lol.
Sniper670
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- Thread starter
- #19
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I mean, so what if it's an infinite multiverse where every possibility within each universe branches out into its own parallel universe.
It's already infinite, but it keeps infinitely expanding beyond that.
I think, that would lead to the uncountably infinite multiverse that mwi dictates.
The book where that was mentioned is actually referenced, so at least it has some credibility.
I mean, so what if it's an infinite multiverse where every possibility within each universe branches out into its own parallel universe.
It's already infinite, but it keeps infinitely expanding beyond that.
I think, that would lead to the uncountably infinite multiverse that mwi dictates.
Vietthai96
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This is not uncountable infinite, just a high degree of infinite or infinite x ad-infinitum
Cat275
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Isn't the question here is that the theory is already the one referenced? it already says uncountable infinite so it should be Low-1c if the verse in this hypothetical thing truly follows mwi.
Cat275
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If it's not treated as uncountable infinite it should be around 2-B to 2-A since it is endlessly branching or so, well that is just my opinion.
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Nah it’s nowhere near the top of 2-B
Cat275
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Well that should be possible enough if there are different sets of possibillities or so, but i'll say mwi without uncountable infinite is 2-C to 2-A minimum if that is what you want to hear.
Vietthai96
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How it is treated here, again depending on context, just because the verse throwing some MWI doesn't mean it automatically 2-A or Low 1-C without further context, at worst it could well be just 2-C
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So far no MWI cosmology went below 2B, 2B is the hotbed for MWI cosmology all the time.
Vietthai96
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2-B due to being ad-infinitum. However, it could well be placed at 2-C, we just didn't see it
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Not really, undertale before it's eventual downgrade was extremely high into finite 2B with just 100+ characters by determining the magnitude of the order in which monsters can be killed and applying it to MWI.
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Does anyone know why Manifold's MWI gives low 1-A?
I have the impression that it is simply 2-A but I am probably wrong
I have the impression that it is simply 2-A but I am probably wrong
Cat275
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Axiom of choice which states all possible math exist which i think they interpreted it as mr.
(Real coordinate space helps bassically)
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Because it uses Type IV multiverse, not Type III (which is MWI).
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My bad
Okay, thanks!
