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The Downstreamers' current P&A is horrible and has been that way for several years (the profile is quite ancient). It's time to finally fix it.
A thread is currently going on rn to remove this ability from all profiles, so there is no point in keeping it.
Already covered by their Void Manipulation, which is explained in the Additions section.
The Manifold isn't stated to be the crux of "concepts", but logic and mathematics instead. The word "concept" isn't mentioned, so it should probably be removed.
1. In that same scene, Michael implies that they need their information "preserved" if they are supposed to survive the erasure.
2. After Michael survives, he then states that he only survived because he once entered the time portal of the Downstreamers, which saves the information of people in the lossless substrate.
3. The above also implies that the Downstreamers weren't truly affected by the Manifold's destruction (as they live in the lossless substrate), which is further supported by their influence being outside all spacetimes.
4. The profile seems to consider the Old Ones as Downstreamers who evolved after being destroyed. But since they werent truly destroyed per the above reasoning, the ability loses its reason to be there.
This would be removed due to the above.
Outdated due to the new tiering system. Should be changed to Type 2 given they are Low 1-A.
Type 11 Large Size doesnt exist anymore, so it should be removed.
vsbattles.fandom.com
That's pretty much it.
Removals
No idea why this is here since the Intelligence section says they are Nigh-Omniscient instead, so it should be removed.
No justification for these. Should be removed if no evidence is presented.
Already covered by Type 1 Abstract Existence.
A thread is currently going on rn to remove this ability from all profiles, so there is no point in keeping it.
No justification for it to be on the 2-C key specifically (It's only legit for the Low 1-A key). Should be removed if no evidence is presented.
Already covered by their Void Manipulation, which is explained in the Additions section.
The stories from where these come from ("Barrier" and "Dante Dreams") are not canon. While Phase Space is known as the fourth installment of the Manifoldverse, Baxter went out of his way to explain which of the short stories from Phase Space are actually part of the Manifoldverse. He clearly makes a disctinction, and as you can see, "Barrier" and "Dante Dreams" are not in the list. So those abilities should be removed.
The Manifold isn't stated to be the crux of "concepts", but logic and mathematics instead. The word "concept" isn't mentioned, so it should probably be removed.
Not sure how this is supposed to be transduality. Even less so how it would apply to the Downstreamers/Old Ones themselves, as they dont actually transcend the Manifold, they just created it.
I assume these come from Michael telling Malenfant (who was a Downstreamer at the time) that he might survive the wave of unreality and pop back somewhere later. The problem is:
1. In that same scene, Michael implies that they need their information "preserved" if they are supposed to survive the erasure.
2. After Michael survives, he then states that he only survived because he once entered the time portal of the Downstreamers, which saves the information of people in the lossless substrate.
3. The above also implies that the Downstreamers weren't truly affected by the Manifold's destruction (as they live in the lossless substrate), which is further supported by their influence being outside all spacetimes.
4. The profile seems to consider the Old Ones as Downstreamers who evolved after being destroyed. But since they werent truly destroyed per the above reasoning, the ability loses its reason to be there.
This would be removed due to the above.
Outdated due to the new tiering system. Should be changed to Type 2 given they are Low 1-A.
Type 11 Large Size doesnt exist anymore, so it should be removed.
Outdated blogs using outdated standards from several years ago. Should be removed.
Additions
These additions include both new justifications/scans to abilities they already had + new abilities (I also took the liberty to add an extra feat to their intelligence section, because why not)
Oblivion Of The Endless/streamers
vsbattles.fandom.com
That's pretty much it.
