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Previous Discussion : https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1370650
I don't know wether these quotes have been posted or not. here is few quotes to confirm that Stephen Baxter the Author might truly intend for Manifoldverse to be Mathematical Platonism-type Multiverse. Below are quotes Manifold : Space.
XXX
Reality is truly based on Math
Cassiopeia had spent time trying to teach him about a phenomenon just a little beyond his own horizon — as chaos theory might have been to an engineer of, say, the 1950s. It was something to do with the emergence of complexity. The Gaijin seemed able to see how complexity, even life, naturally emerged from the simplest of beginnings: not fundamental physical laws, but something even deeper than that — as far as he could make out, the essential mathematical logic that underlay all things.
Its here expluicitly said that complexity itself did not originate or created from most fundamental of physical laws. But all is originating from even deeper and more primal source, that is mathematical logic tgat underlay all things.
As we already know, Level IV Multiverse is based on math and logic. And in this quote from Manifold : Space its outright said that everything in Manifoldverse did originate from math.
XXX
Reality is just Consequence of Mathematical Concepts
Human scientists had a glimmering of this. His own DNA somehow contained, in its few billion bases, enough information to generate a brain of three trillion connections… But for the Gaijin this principle went farther. It was like being given a table of prime numbers and being able to deduce atoms and stars and people as a necessary consequence of the existence of the primes. And since prime numbers, of course, existed everywhere, it followed there was life and people, humans and Gaijin, everywhere there could be. Life sprouting everywhere, like weeds in the cracks of a pavement. It was a remarkable, chilling thought
An example : how the existence of one mathematical structure caused the existence of physical structures like stars. And since said mathematical structure existed everywhere, (all over Manifoldverse) so can complexity like Life exist because it would be consequence of mathematical strucures which presided it. Mathematical structures which reside on Ultimate Manifold which is the crux of totality of existence itself.
Quotes above might be supporting statement to Level IV Multiverse statement in the first novel of Manifold : Time, in case you guys forgot :
Anna's face worked. "They are considering constraints on the ultimate manifold."
Maura suspected that she was going to struggle with the rest of this conversation. "The manifold of what?"
"Universes. It is of course a truism that all logically possible universes must exist. The universe, this universe, is described - umm, that's the wrong word - by a formal system. Mathematics. A system of mathematics." Maura frowned. "You mean a Theory of Everything?"
Anna waved a hand, as if that were utterly trivial, and her beautiful wings rustled.
"But there are many formal systems. Some of them are less rich, some more. But each formal system is logically consistent internally, describes a possible universe, which therefore exists."
XXX
we know already that concept of 'prime numbers' already 'created' existence of atoms, stars and sapient life. and there are many statements regarding dimensionality in the trilogy (Four dimensions of Einstein Rosen Bridge) and Theories of Everything (Transactional Interpretation and 11-Dimensional universe iirc). so mathematical structures also have conceptual superiority over Dimensional structures in Manifold.
Dimensional structures are mere consequence of the mathematical structures that are Theories of Everything. in other words, mathematical structures in Manifoldverse (most primal underlying concept of reality) which held dominion over dimensional structures are Tier 1-A.
this 1-A interpretation is without relying on outside sources like Tegmark paper and the likes by the way. so everyone can rest assured that that Downstreamers being 1-A can hold its own weight without the existence of Mr. Tegmark's Paper.
and as already said in previous discussion, even 1-A concepts aren't exempt from mathematics and logic (only High 1-A and above who truly transcend logic). since even Initial Manifolfverse is already Mathematical Multiverse, and Downstreamers explicitly said to further add new possibilities and changed the rule of the verse, its safe to say that Downstreamers' control over the the variety of underlying concepts of reality is total and beyond.
Because for their grand project, Downstreamers need to take control and/or make entirely new mathematical structures that govern reality of multiverse (mathematical underlying which are source of dimensions/space/time, void and etc) to make new infinitely more possibilities for new complexities to appear.
so mere 'dimensionally superior' (base fodder 1-A) is massively understating the power of Downstreamers IMO.
Indeed, its math all the way down. its official that Downstreamers are the most enthusiastic mathematicians ever recorded in this wiki. ovo
With additional quotes from Manifold:Space, I think its safe to say that Manifoldverse is undoubtly Mathematical Multiverse based on Platonism or also known as Level IV Multiverse.
With 1-A supporting statements being complexity/reality/life are mere consequences of the existence of mathematical structures, entities which are not unlike Forms of Platonism. Them being the very conceptual crux of reality/complexity itself.
And Downstreamers possibly transcended and presided over a Platonic-like 1-A outerverse named the Ultimate Manifold.
So, is this enough of confirmation to warrant Revision? Specifically, get rid of the Note on Downstreamers' page regarding the doubt wether its truly multiverse based on all mathematics and logic or not.
I don't know wether these quotes have been posted or not. here is few quotes to confirm that Stephen Baxter the Author might truly intend for Manifoldverse to be Mathematical Platonism-type Multiverse. Below are quotes Manifold : Space.
XXX
Reality is truly based on Math
Cassiopeia had spent time trying to teach him about a phenomenon just a little beyond his own horizon — as chaos theory might have been to an engineer of, say, the 1950s. It was something to do with the emergence of complexity. The Gaijin seemed able to see how complexity, even life, naturally emerged from the simplest of beginnings: not fundamental physical laws, but something even deeper than that — as far as he could make out, the essential mathematical logic that underlay all things.
Its here expluicitly said that complexity itself did not originate or created from most fundamental of physical laws. But all is originating from even deeper and more primal source, that is mathematical logic tgat underlay all things.
As we already know, Level IV Multiverse is based on math and logic. And in this quote from Manifold : Space its outright said that everything in Manifoldverse did originate from math.
XXX
Reality is just Consequence of Mathematical Concepts
Human scientists had a glimmering of this. His own DNA somehow contained, in its few billion bases, enough information to generate a brain of three trillion connections… But for the Gaijin this principle went farther. It was like being given a table of prime numbers and being able to deduce atoms and stars and people as a necessary consequence of the existence of the primes. And since prime numbers, of course, existed everywhere, it followed there was life and people, humans and Gaijin, everywhere there could be. Life sprouting everywhere, like weeds in the cracks of a pavement. It was a remarkable, chilling thought
An example : how the existence of one mathematical structure caused the existence of physical structures like stars. And since said mathematical structure existed everywhere, (all over Manifoldverse) so can complexity like Life exist because it would be consequence of mathematical strucures which presided it. Mathematical structures which reside on Ultimate Manifold which is the crux of totality of existence itself.
Quotes above might be supporting statement to Level IV Multiverse statement in the first novel of Manifold : Time, in case you guys forgot :
Anna's face worked. "They are considering constraints on the ultimate manifold."
Maura suspected that she was going to struggle with the rest of this conversation. "The manifold of what?"
"Universes. It is of course a truism that all logically possible universes must exist. The universe, this universe, is described - umm, that's the wrong word - by a formal system. Mathematics. A system of mathematics." Maura frowned. "You mean a Theory of Everything?"
Anna waved a hand, as if that were utterly trivial, and her beautiful wings rustled.
"But there are many formal systems. Some of them are less rich, some more. But each formal system is logically consistent internally, describes a possible universe, which therefore exists."
XXX
we know already that concept of 'prime numbers' already 'created' existence of atoms, stars and sapient life. and there are many statements regarding dimensionality in the trilogy (Four dimensions of Einstein Rosen Bridge) and Theories of Everything (Transactional Interpretation and 11-Dimensional universe iirc). so mathematical structures also have conceptual superiority over Dimensional structures in Manifold.
Dimensional structures are mere consequence of the mathematical structures that are Theories of Everything. in other words, mathematical structures in Manifoldverse (most primal underlying concept of reality) which held dominion over dimensional structures are Tier 1-A.
this 1-A interpretation is without relying on outside sources like Tegmark paper and the likes by the way. so everyone can rest assured that that Downstreamers being 1-A can hold its own weight without the existence of Mr. Tegmark's Paper.
and as already said in previous discussion, even 1-A concepts aren't exempt from mathematics and logic (only High 1-A and above who truly transcend logic). since even Initial Manifolfverse is already Mathematical Multiverse, and Downstreamers explicitly said to further add new possibilities and changed the rule of the verse, its safe to say that Downstreamers' control over the the variety of underlying concepts of reality is total and beyond.
Because for their grand project, Downstreamers need to take control and/or make entirely new mathematical structures that govern reality of multiverse (mathematical underlying which are source of dimensions/space/time, void and etc) to make new infinitely more possibilities for new complexities to appear.
so mere 'dimensionally superior' (base fodder 1-A) is massively understating the power of Downstreamers IMO.
Indeed, its math all the way down. its official that Downstreamers are the most enthusiastic mathematicians ever recorded in this wiki. ovo
With additional quotes from Manifold:Space, I think its safe to say that Manifoldverse is undoubtly Mathematical Multiverse based on Platonism or also known as Level IV Multiverse.
With 1-A supporting statements being complexity/reality/life are mere consequences of the existence of mathematical structures, entities which are not unlike Forms of Platonism. Them being the very conceptual crux of reality/complexity itself.
And Downstreamers possibly transcended and presided over a Platonic-like 1-A outerverse named the Ultimate Manifold.
So, is this enough of confirmation to warrant Revision? Specifically, get rid of the Note on Downstreamers' page regarding the doubt wether its truly multiverse based on all mathematics and logic or not.
