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Makina vs Knives

Enter_Bluey said:
I never said it gives her infinite speed, and yes, it does make her stronger as she has more experience with her RE from her battles which she keeps, thus she is higher than him absolutely. He doesn't just instantly RE to an opponents strength
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I never said it doesn't make her stronger so you can just stop that gaslighting shit right now. I said it doesn't allow her to adapt to people who can get infinitely faster than her. And yes he does just instantly RE to his opponents strength, Vash did just that so your applying your own headcanon here.




Enter_Bluey said:
And yes I am reading the profile
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Yeah and I'm the President of the United States.


At least Hypersonic (Able to dodge AK 47s at close range and can throw a rock to deflect bullets, has been able to remove everyone's bullets [Estimated 30 guys carrying shotguns, pistols, heavy machine guns...etc.] from their guns in a bar house rumble without anyone noticing in less than a minute) | Infinite (His attacks could skip past measurable distance instantly) | Infinite (Far faster than before)



At least Hypersonic (Comparable to Vash) | Infinite (Comparable to Vash, whose attacks could skip past measurable distance instantly) | Infinite (Far faster than before. Blitzed Vash)



Vash went from Hypersonic to Infinite instantly just by getting serious then Vash and Knives's took turns blitzing one another.
 
azontr said:
Don't you like Ergenverse-
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Ain't a favorite verse I'd actively argue for. It ain't like The Boxer, Legend of the Northern Blade or The Genius Duelist (Ergen is objectively better than the Genius duelist, but I still enjoyed the latter more to the point I give a shit about it VS wise)
 
LordGinSama said:
I never said it doesn't make her stronger so you can just stop that gaslighting shit right now. I said it doesn't allow her to adapt to people who can get infinitely faster than her. And yes he does just instantly RE to his opponents strength, Vash did just that so your applying your own headcanon here.





Yeah and I'm the President of the United States.


At least Hypersonic (Able to dodge AK 47s at close range and can throw a rock to deflect bullets, has been able to remove everyone's bullets [Estimated 30 guys carrying shotguns, pistols, heavy machine guns...etc.] from their guns in a bar house rumble without anyone noticing in less than a minute) | Infinite (His attacks could skip past measurable distance instantly) | Infinite (Far faster than before)



At least Hypersonic (Comparable to Vash) | Infinite (Comparable to Vash, whose attacks could skip past measurable distance instantly) | Infinite (Far faster than before. Blitzed Vash)



Vash went from Hypersonic to Infinite instantly just by getting serious then Vash and Knives's took turns blitzing one another.
Click to expand...
You literally said omniscience doesn't give infinite speed, and that her starting off higher would make her stronger. That is what I meant, relax
 
Point being that she's never been shown to be capable of reacting to Infinitely faster opponents, something that Knives's is capable to achieve with his RE.


Until you get infinite speed on her profile then I'm not taking anything about her RE being above his as legitimate and I'm positive the majority would agree with that.
 
Enter_Bluey said:
ou literally said omniscience doesn't give infinite speed
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Omniscience doesn't grant you infinite speed. You can be below bullet timing with Omniscience, so yeah this is a hard no. Stop dodging the question, has she ever reacted to a literal infinite difference in her speed? No she hasn't.
Enter_Bluey said:
and that her starting off higher would make her stronger. That is what I meant, relax
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She wouldn't start off higher, that's the thing. You haven't proven that she's stronger than him, and unlike her again, he can and will eventually become infinitely faster than her. His RE is inherently infinitely better when it comes to the Amplification of speed.



Eden doesn't have infinite speed, drop that argument immediately or make a CRT. Omniscience does not grant infinite speed.
 
I'm not even saying omniscience grants infinite speed, I am correcting that it's not what I meant. And yes, let me answer, just getting the misunderstanding outta the way
 
She isn't starting off faster than him, you can argue that she's starting off stronger than him but strength isn't going to help her. Her speed even with her RE is still finite, while the same can't be said about the speed that Knives's can achieve with his RE.


She can start off stronger as she wants, that isn't going to help her react to Knives's growing infinitely faster than her.
 
Honestly with this much support you can prolly just give Knives Makina's spot at this point TBH-
 
I mean she objectively lacks the feats of adapting to an infinite difference in speed, while Vash does and Knives's the Plant bro's were taking turns blitzing one another like it was a game.


At least till someone gives her infinite speed somehow, till then Knives's passively gets infinitely faster than Eden, something she herself has no answer to.
 
Simply put, makina has fought a hundred million years, with another being of her level with similar abilities. The abilities of her reactive evolution, save, including strengths, resistances, abilities, etc permanently as an example here. Meaning that she has had more time to massively scale above what he has shown with his own RE feats. This alone makes anything knives does to her...objectively null, while she completely nullifies his abilities on several levels above his own. I agree, that if he can instantly jump to infinite speed she won't be REing to it, but she doesn't need to as this, or either of his RE feats show him jumping to such a height compared to hers like that. Overtime, his power will jump up to that level, but nothing suggests for him to instantly reach that level of strength. I question how this got accepted as infinite speed, or shows why he will instantly jump to infinite speed against an opponent who isn't. It should be more clear in the scans to be honest. In speed equal, he will continue to grow indefinitely, along with Makina's speed, but absoltuely nothing shows that he will just jump up to infinite speed like this in a person not on that level.

But giving the benefit of the doubt, and he jumps to infinite speed, I don't see how this stops her from inevitably incapping him, let alone him getting rid of her main body. It's not even a matter of her omniscience granting her infinite speed, she will still be trying to know about her opponent while increasing her strength. The adaptation to hax is considered instant shown by Alice a few times. I recall it being treated as instant as well, making it harder for knives to do anything to her either way. This brings me back to the fact information concealment is a thing used by many characters, including world creators and the beings above them. Either way these resistances are amped by her RE. What exactly stops Makina from rewriting his existence, including the concepts involving his acaus 3, travelling back intime to do so, manipulating probability to make sure it happens, along with a couple more things from her arsenal.
 
Enter_Bluey said:
Simply put, makina has fought a hundred million years, with another being of her level with similar abilities. The abilities of her reactive evolution, save, including strengths, resistances, abilities, etc permanently as an example here. Meaning that she has had more time to massively scale above what he has shown with his own RE feats. This alone makes anything knives does to her...objectively null, while she completely nullifies his abilities on several levels above his own. I agree, that if he can instantly jump to infinite speed she won't be REing to it, but she doesn't need to as this, or either of his RE feats show him jumping to such a height compared to hers like that. Overtime, his power will jump up to that level, but nothing suggests for him to instantly reach that level of strength. I question how this got accepted as infinite speed, or shows why he will instantly jump to infinite speed against an opponent who isn't. It should be more clear in the scans to be honest. In speed equal, he will continue to grow indefinitely, along with Makina's speed, but absoltuely nothing shows that he will just jump up to infinite speed like this in a person not on that level.

But giving the benefit of the doubt, and he jumps to infinite speed, I don't see how this stops her from inevitably incapping him, let alone him getting rid of her main body. It's not even a matter of her omniscience granting her infinite speed, she will still be trying to know about her opponent while increasing her strength. The adaptation to hax is considered instant shown by Alice a few times. I recall it being treated as instant as well, making it harder for knives to do anything to her either way. This brings me back to the fact information concealment is a thing used by many characters, including world creators and the beings above them. Either way these resistances are amped by her RE. What exactly stops Makina from rewriting his existence, including the concepts involving his acaus 3, travelling back intime to do so, manipulating probability to make sure it happens, along with a couple more things from her arsenal.
Click to expand...
fumGjYp.jpg
 
You wrote that entire wall of text for no reason, nothing you've said thus far helps her avoiding getting blitzed by Knives's becoming infinitely faster than her instantly.



Enter_Bluey said:
I question how this got accepted as infinite speed, or shows why he will instantly jump to infinite speed against an opponent who isn't. It should be more clear in the scans to be honest. In speed equal, he will continue to grow indefinitely, along with Makina's speed, but absoltuely nothing shows that he will just jump up to infinite speed like this in a person not on that level.
Click to expand...
Vash getting serious made his RE make him jump from Hypersonic to Infinite. To be frank I really don't care what you think, it was accepted by several staff and other knowledgeable members.

That last part literally makes zero sense, Vash's scan show him doing exactly what you just said he can't do and Knives's can match Vash's RE before they took turns blitzing one another with Knives's blitzing Vash in the end of the back and forth bout. Again Eden doesn't have infinite speed, Knives's does is can amp to be infinitely faster than the opponent via scaling to Vash's.



You can't say that she'll adapt to his infinite speed advantage whenever her profiles caps well below infinite speed. Even with her omniscience she won't be able to know where Knives's is coming from. Knives's would literally view a character with finite speed as being frozen, Knives's has all the time in the world to track her down and find her even if it takes him an absurd amount of time. Eden wouldn't be able to even perceive him.
 
For more information, Infinite speed characters are so fast, they move faster than time can flow at any period. They perceive every finite speed character as completely frozen and it takes 0 time to react to any finite speed object or travel finite speed distance. They can also perform and infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow.


Makina isn't adapting to an infinite difference in speed, her omniscience doesn't help her in any way shape or form. She's unable to perceive Knives's while she'd literally remain stagnant in his view.
 
I'm waiting for Pegasus's input before voting. Rules aside. The fact that there are speed equal and speed unequal ranking should consider the rules about speed equal match. Them.
Besides Regarding infinite sped RE. I doubt that will happen seeing his enemy is not infinite speed if his RE relies on how powerful his enemy is it would only evolve within a reasonable area above his enemies nit suddenly going infinite so i do not really agree with that but i agree knives having chances to RE and speed blitz

The thing about Makina still beyond reach of Knives since even infinite range in 6D cannot reach her hasn't been answered yet so im withholding my vote
 
I know how infinite speed works, and I mean appreciate it for letting me know you don't care? The unneeded aggression when i'm just tryna debate for her is kinda oozing. So i'll just let the results fly
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Besides Regarding infinite sped RE. I doubt that will happen seeing his enemy is not infinite speed if his RE relies on how powerful his enemy is it would only evolve within a reasonable area above his enemies nit suddenly going infinite so i do not really agree with that
Click to expand...
That's not how his RE works, Vash went from Hypersonic to Infinite without even fighting. His RE isn't in response to stronger opponents, it just happens passively.


Knive's and Vash took turns blitzing one another back and forth directly after Vash's jump from Hypersonic to Infinite just by getting serious instantly.
 
Anyway the best case scenario for her is sharing the spot with Knives's since she can't beat him without speed being equalized. She's getting steam rolled by Knives's without speed being equalized and she arguably loses to Knives's even with speed being equalized due to him still being able to blitz the **** out of her.



I'm not trying to spend all night here so I'll simply agree to disagree at this point and let the voters pick.






Matches can either have speed equalized or non-speed equalized, we normally assume speed equalize but if a character who doesn't beat another because of speed equalization can beat that same character with speed unequalized than they would share the same tier/placement.

It would look something like this.

5. Eden (Speed equalized) / Knives's Millions (Speed Unequalized)
 
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