Major Hax-Upgrade--Causality Manipulation--for Yhwach

[Goodyfresh]

So it is now established as of the newest chapter that Yhwach has Causality-Manipulation of some kind! It is completey legit, he can alter the causality of events in order to change the future as he sees fit. Just read the latest chapter and you'll see: http://readms.com/r/bleach/678/3470/1 It's worth reading the entire thing to really get a look at what he can do with his causality-manipulation! It's pretty damn crazy, guys. This amounts to a HUGE hax-upgrade for the Bleach-verse overall, if I'm not mistaken, because causality-manipulation is really one of the most hax abilities out there besides actually conceptually-based abilities.

Now unfortunately, the way this power is being presented in the story is a case of seriously lazy/downright bad writing, but that doesn't change the fact that it gives Yhwach an immense upgrade as far as Vs Battles are concerned. Suddenly, the hax in Bleach (and it's always had some fairly decent to, in some cases, truly formidable hax) have become absolutely insane.

 

[Dekoshu]

Seriously? Bad writing is too subjective. You can't expect to have all abilities audibly explained in real life. So Yhwach was intentionally keeping those details to himself. And too many foreshadowing can be annoying.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I dont see how it's a case of bad writing bleach has always had fairly broken abilities and yhwach has been potrayed as unbeatable so far, this is just a further extension upon his almighty ability which we were told a couple chapters back had more to it. As for this causality manipulation i am still wondering how the hell ichigo is suppose to beat this guy, i expect one massive asspull for yhwach to be beaten, anyway this is just bleach again upping it's hax game its always been hax.

 

[Goodyfresh]

I dont see how it's a case of bad writing bleach has always had fairly broken abilities and yhwach has been potrayed as unbeatable so far, this is just a further extension upon his almighty ability which we were told a couple chapters back had more to it. As for this causality manipulation i am still wondering how the hell ichigo is suppose to beat this guy, i expect one massive asspull for yhwach to be beaten, anyway this is just bleach again upping it's hax game its always been hax.

The reason I say it was bad writing is because even though this is one of the most expository Bleach chapters ever in terms of a characters abilities, it still only took me a minute or two to read the chapter in its entirety >_< As has been the case for most chapters for a long time now, the writing in this chapter of Bleach is just lazy. If you can read an almost 20 page manga chapter in literally two minutes, even though it's one of the most important expository chapters in ages, then holy crap dude the author really needs to get his shit together.

Anyway, the important thing as far as Vs Battles is concerned, is the new reveal concerning Yhwach's power. It is SOME form of causality-manipulation (seemingly with limits, but still). For now I propose that we put "causality manipulation with unspecified limits" in his list of powers, and update that accordingly once we learn more about those limits.

This is important because while you're right that "it's always been hax," this is certainly the MOST hax ability we have seen so far in the series.

 

[Dekoshu]

Let's explain formally, if somebody had "hacker-type" abilities and fought with a realistic personality, wouldn't they say you have no right to complain about it?

 

[Goodyfresh]

Let's explain formally, if somebody had "hacker-type" abilities and fought with a realistic personality, wouldn't they say you have no right to complain about it?

Wait. . .what?

I don't even know what you're saying, exactly. But let's get back on topic. We should seriously add "limited causality-warping" to Yhwach's abilities. Apparently everything so far in the fight has been using it, like the "traps" that Ichigo kept stepping on that appeared as if they had always been there via prediction of where he could step--it turns out, they were actually created by Yhwach warping causality to alter the near future.

Fact is, in this chapter Ichigo pulls out his new Bankai. . .and then at the very next moment it is broken in half, and the top half is in Yhwach's hands. Without Yhwach ever moving in order to break it. Because Yhwach, as he himself explains, changed the future by warping causality. He changed events so that in the very near future, he will have broken and taken half of Tensa Zangetsu. By the time Ichigo can register what's going on, Yhwach has already done it. He then does the same thing to Ichigo's Hollow-horn. That is causality-warping right there, folks.

 

[Dekoshu]

I am not trying to be rude. Yhwach's abilities, are not what they previously seem. Here's what I mean, Yhwach would rather break Ichigo's Tensa Zangetsu, and not having to face Ichigo with an unbroken Bankai. This is what I'm talking about, Goodyfresh. I sounded off-topic because I didn't clarify this earlier.

 

[Goodyfresh]

I am not trying to be rude. Yhwach's abilities, are not what they previously seem. Here's what I mean, Yhwach would rather break Ichigo's Tensa Zangetsu, and not having to face Ichigo with an unbroken Bankai. This is what I'm talking about, Goodyfresh. I sounded off-topic because I didn't clarify this earlier.

That's just because of Ichigo's sheer power/attack-potency. It would seem that in THAT regard Ichigo has actually surpassed or at least managed to equal Yhwach, to the point that Yhwach wishes to avoid allowing Ichigo to attack with his bankai. But the point here is that with his causality-warping hax, Yhwach doesn't need to be more powerful than Ichigo, he only needs to be powerful enough to be able to cause him injury and cut him with his reiatsu. That's the scary thing about hax, they can render power and speed completely irrelevant. That's why this hax needs to be added to Yhwach's powers-and-abilities list. Because it's one that pretty much bypasses strength and speed entirely (unless the enemy is at a level overwhelmingly above Yhwach, like a large-planet-destroyer with FTL speed or something).

 

[OwariNepgear]

Just read the new chapter 2 mins ago. Let's wait for 1-2 more chapters. Just because Yhwach said he can manipulate the future doesn't mean he actually can do it. Maybe he just want to crush Ichigo's will with some false information. If he really has Causality Manipulation, then this manga's name should be "Yhwach the Almighty" and Yhwach is the true main character who only shows up after hundreds of chapter passed lol.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Just read the new chapter 2 mins ago. Let's wait for 1-2 more chapters. Just because Yhwach said he can manipulate the future doesn't mean he actually can do it. Maybe he just want to crush Ichigo's will with some false information. If he really has Causality Manipulation, then this manga's name should be "Yhwach the Almighty" and Yhwach is the true main character who only shows up after hundreds of chapter passed lol.

I don't think so man, this seems completely 100% legitimate. Ichigo's bankai ended up broken for no discernible reason, with the other half in Yhwach's hand, literally an INSTANT after Ichigo unveiled it.

What I suspect will turn out to be the case is that there are some kind of strict limitations/conditions to Yhwach's causality-warping, and that will be his only weakness. Something like that.

Either that, or as I said before a power overwhelmingly greater than his (Ichigo with the Hogyoku, perhaps?????)

 

[Promestein]

It does seem like possible causality manipulation to me, but I do think it would be best to wait for more information.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Agreed with prom, let's just wait a bit for more info.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Same as Aizen and especially Prom. Given recent events, it's better to wait it out more for further info.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Just waaaait it ouuuuut. Casualty manipulation would be lovely, but come on, Ichigo would've been beyond atomized if Yhwach can do that on the first place.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^Kubo writing>The Almighty

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

"I read the writing for the next chapter. I didn't like it so I changed it where I took over everything with my Almighty Power." From Dekoshu

Nice to meet you new meme

 

[Raito_Utopia]

if yhwach has causality manipulation , ichigo need to have concept manipulation to win

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Actually, came up with the theory that maybe... Ichigo can change the past subconsciously... And maybe that would explain how he got all these powers and all.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Actually there's already something in the verse that would allow Ichigo to potentially beat a causality-warper: The Hogyoku. It has yet-unrevealed reality-warping and other capabilities. What Aizen used it for was to become something that was both Shinigami and Hollow but also beyond them. . . .but its fundamental power is to "materialize desires." It's obviously no coincidence that Aizen and the Hogyoku have come back into play in this war (along with the Almighty Chair-Sama, of course. . .those who don't know the meme need to look it up). The Hogyoku has to be the missing piece needed to beat a hax-as-hell dude like Yhwach. My suspicion is that by the time the whole series is over, the Hogyoku may need to get its own page on this Wiki as a weapon/item (although it would seem it may have a will of its own, which if confirmed would make it an actual character).

That being said, you all have persuaded me that we should wait another chapter or two to figure out for sure if Yhwach's power is really, truly some kind of limited causality-warping. It seems like a 99% chance that it is, but let's wait. For now, somebody can close this thread

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

"I saw the future and made you close the thread because I didn't like it with my Almighty power." from Yhwach

 

[OwariNepgear]

@^: I rofl so hard

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I also think that it seems to be causality manipulation, but it may be better to wait a bit, as the other staff members say.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

I think Give him fate manipulation like for example the Idea of Evil but probably wait a bit since the description of his power has changes as much as 3 times.

 

[Goodyfresh]

"I saw the future and made you close the thread because I didn't like it with my Almighty power." from Yhwach

Hahaha this was a great laugh right before bed. Gosh, see THIS is why the writing for Bleach has become so stale, because it sounds like what you just wrote there, it's just one ASSPULL after another. What happened to the days of the Soul Society Arc when Tite Kubo could write a good story? >_<

@Not Jim Sterling Fate-manipulation and causality-warping are pretty much the same thing, just different semantics, haha. I like the term causality-warping more, for no particular reason other than my own personal quirks.

Somebody in charge close this thread for me, and let's just wait on standby for the definitive reveal of the nature of Yhwach's power, and add causality-manipulation (and whatever limitations) to his list of powers once it is confirmed.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

I know they are the same, but I think it's kinda more suited for him.

 

[SilverRain]

I don't really think it's that his power "changes". He said that he can see all futures, and essentially be can choose which one he wants to have happen. He's literally Almighty~

 

[Dekoshu]

Let's just say Yhwach might get something stupid happening to him.

 

[Goodyfresh]

I don't really think it's that his power "changes". He said that he can see all futures, and essentially be can choose which one he wants to have happen. He's literally Almighty~

YES, that was stated! His ability to see the future is very similar to a high-level Kwisatz Haderach from Dune, like Leto Atreides II (not sure if any of you are familiar with that series). Basically he can see all possible "branches" of the timeline based on all possible outcomes of decisions and random-happenings. But in Yhwach's case it would appear he can actually choose which of those timeline-branches comes to pass. Either something even more hax is going to have to attack him (again, the Hogyoku, guys!!!!!) or it will turn out there are some kind of flaws/limitations to his ability.

Regardless, while we have to wait to see exactly what they are, Yhwach clearly has some very very scary hax that would allow him to beat many much-more-powerful characters from other franchises.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Wow calm the shit down, jeez. @Goody

 

[Goodyfresh]

Wow calm the shit down, jeez. @Goody

I'm a huge nerd and get excited about these things *embarassed*

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I agree with Cross that it is getting annoying.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well, the majority agreed to wait for more feats. I think this is safe to close.