It's not just stats. Like I said, each character has access to a ton of new abilities, and do have notable differences, and backgrounds, such as their alts. There are also some examples like Xander and "Marth" that play a pretty major role within the plot of FEH.
How exactly? It's quite literally a list of games that IS basically said, "here, these are all the mainline games, and we will exclude spin-offs", which is consistent in all 4 examples I mentioned. I don't know how you would find out for sure what IS considers a mainline FE game otherwise, sans a direct statement from IS for each individual game where they say "X game is canon." I'd say this is very solid evidence that IS considers Heroes to be a mainline game, if it is included with all other mainline games, and is not ignored or excluded like the spin-offs.
I never once claimed that the originals were no longer canon, I was speaking hypothetically.
Sure, in Echoes Grima is brought up, but not Gaiden. Awakening brings up the Gaiden versions of Alm, Celica, etc. And if we include Heroes, some of the descriptions for the Heroes mentions they come from Blade of Light, and Mystery of the Emblem, and the brave outfits for Alm and Celica clearly reference their Gaiden counterparts. There is also FE Cipher (who's characters have shown up in Echoes) which has the Gaiden version of Celica. So it is probable that the original games and remakes could be their own separate worlds in the infinite FE Multiverse, or something.
I was more referring to the concepts of individual people, but here.
After looking through some threads about similar examples, yea I think this is a little to vague on it's own. So I'll drop this point for now.
Take your time, that's a lot more important than this.
Mystery of the Emblem
It's not just alternate costumes, like the smash alts. They each come with their own separate weapons, passives, specials, and assist skills.
See JSW's point, and the links I've provided for Lost Lore, where both the remake and original games appear in one scene. Not to mention, Gaiden Celica and Blade of Light Marth/Caeda have made an appearance in Cipher, which is canon thanks to Cipher characters appearing in Shadows of Valentia.
Once again, nowhere does it say it is a requirement for a game to appear in mainline entries for it to be considered canon.
I don't know what the deal with Dissidia is, since I know next to nothing about FF. But it's not double standards to accept Heroes as canon. Being mentioned in mainline titles is one way to be considered canon. Stuff provided by the author which shows the game being canon is another way to do so (whether it be statements, listings, or otherwise). Heroes is technically both, as characters from Heroes have appeared in Cipher, which I established earlier as being canon thanks to Shadows of Valentia. Heroes has also pulled various stuff from Cipher before, like Fallen Ike, and Legendary Micaiah.
I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here.
That's not my point. My point is, the same logic where originals are non-canon thanks to the remakes can't apply to Heroes, since Heroes doesn't have a remake, and can't be considered "non-canon" in the same way you argue that Blade of Light is non-canon due to the Shadow Dragon remake.
I've provided several sources from IS where they show Heroes, or Alfonse as a mainline game/lord.
The thing is, Awakening features the Gaiden versions of characters, as seen in their artwork, and like you said, Shadows of Valentia didn't exist yet. So regardless of how you put it, characters from Gaiden appeared in Awakening.
Pretty sure that kinda shows the original games and remakes are both considered canon if the two are used interchangeably within the same scene, rather than sticking solely with the remake.
My bad, here's a working one.
That isn't what I was arguing. I was arguing the fact that being featured in a mainline game isn't the only way to be considered a canon game. Not that it really matters, as like I said, Heroes is featured in Fire Emblem Cipher, which is canon thanks to Shadows of Valentia.
Yea basically, it's a "What If?" version of Ike that originated from Cipher, but also appears in Heroes.
Addressed later down
I'm looking at the canon page, and it doesn't say anywhere that "remakes make the originals completely non-canon", all I found was this:
I don't see why we can't focus on the art as well, if Alfonse is consistently listed with the mainline lords by IS.
I can though. What matters here is that Gaiden Celica is featured. Unless you want to claim that the Celica with Gaiden art is actually their Shadows of Valentia counterpart somehow.
Characters from Cipher have appeared in Shadows of Valentia.
Yea but that doesn't mean that the original is non-canon. Me and JSW have also provided several examples of the original games being featured in later games.
That's a false equivalency, as Marvel vs Capcom is a crossover between verses, when that isn't the case here.
IS doesn't always use the remakes though, which is seen several times like in Cipher, and Lost Lore, which both feature the original games as well.
Gaiden Celica, Blade of Light Marth and Caeda
Isn't the primary canon =/= non-canon
You're comparing a crossover of a bunch of different franchises from two different companies to an in-series crossover. That comparison doesn't work. The art I've been referencing isn't even from Heroes, but rather just some official art created by IS.
Like I've said multiple times before, Gaiden characters appear period, remake existing or not. You can't just deny their appearance.
Like we've said, the original games have been used in Lost Lore and in Cipher, the former of which is used interchangeably with the remakes. And the Brave alts of Alm and Celica, and the child versions of Marth, Caeda, and others clearly reference their original counterparts.
I'm pretty sure this also applies to the original games as well, since the child alts of Marth, Caeda etc, who have their designs from the original games are confirmed to come from a world entirely separate from the World of Mystery (ie, the "main" Marth's world)
Just because it's not the primary canon, doesn't inherently make it non canon.
Well, yea.
Sorry, but I don't really know what you are trying to say.
Odd, they work just fine for me. Try these ones then:
There wouldn't be a point to any other canons on this wiki if we just used the primary canon only. But this part doesn't really matter anymore due to the last point.
I never said Gaiden was the primary canon though, I was arguing it being used in canon games.
They are from the "World of Origin", while the main Marth is from the "World of Mystery".
Heroes doesn't necessarily contradict the pair ups. It just brings up the possibility that Lewyn is not the father to Fee and Ced in one of the timelines.
