Machmatej
He/Him- 1,642
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at this point its funnier if no one says anything
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Mahoraga vs Yoru
- Thread starter Tuxidoe_Redo
- Start date
Arkansalter2
He/Him- 8,211
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No, she cannot. Getting this closed. Asa can't see nor interact with Maho.
Arkansalter2
He/Him- 8,211
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Ain't shit to really argue but whatever boats ya float.
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Is this true?
Arkansalter2
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Yes. Shikigami are disembodied to non-sorcerors.
Breadbear83
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as matchmatej shared, Megumi once said this certain conditions for someone with no cursed energy being able to see one (the special place, i guess is under the curtain that the guy with glasses made in the cursed womb arc, a curtain that uses cursed energy to cover a large area like an entire school, from the outside it seems like nothing changes in there, which is used by sorcerers to hide the fights that sorcerers have against curses)
Edit: even then, Yoru can´t get to that condition of actually ´´´being near death´´ because of her immortality, California has a Population of 32 Million People so she would never get to be near death, as i expect the battle to end earlier, either because Mahoraga could adapt to her immortality or being weaponized (not sure if he could) or Yoru managing to make up some stupid logic that allows her to believe him as her own to Weaponize him and Mahoraga not adapting to that
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1. shikigami are invisible like curses, tho sometimes people can see them but its not made clear when
2. shikigami as of now are treated like curses as far as i know so they're invulnerable ig? technically Yoru would still have a wincon of turning Maho into a weapon
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Meh, potentially current Yoru due to her "if I see a weak look on you, your mine" mentality
But Chainsaw Man War arc Yoru? Not too sure, he ego wasn't so gloated as it is now.
You can eviscerate him with the Gun Goddess, but that's about it, you can argue means of her actually pulling it off, and I CAN. But, it doesn't make sense if she can't see or harm him regardless.
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Where is it said that Shikigami are normally invulnerable?
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Thing is… Shikigami are Distinguished from Curses. Yes they Resemble them, but that does not mean they ARE them.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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The literal only difference is that Shikigami work for Sorcerers (with one big exception) as opposed to against them. They're still an entity made of Cursed Energy exactly like Cursed Spirits. Hell, Rika was a Cursed Spirit who became a Shikigami so it's not like they were ever treated as two different things aside from alignment.
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Where was it said that Rika became a Shikigami?
Nothing directly confirms that they are one and the same. At best its a Possibly for Cursed Spirit Physiology, which I'm not against.
Things can be alike, but still have different qualities to them…
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Well... it depends..
Curses working for a sorcerer isnt exactly the same as Shikigami, we know Toji had a Curse he tamed, it was not considered a Shikigami
Dagon, a Curse, had Shikigami of his own, which are again distinguished from Curses
And lastly, Shikigami, unlike Cursed Spirits, can handle and even use RCT themselves (Mahoraga, Round Deer, Rika), while Curses die from it.
So it's weird.
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I completely forgot about those factors (Especially about Reverse Cursed Technique, when that is literally against the existence of negative Cursed Spirits)… yeah Shikigami are not Curses.
So Rika did become a Shikigami after her soul was liberated
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Invulnerability of curses
We currently accept that curses have invulnerability. However, our page does not explain it proply, and many people seem to be confused about it. As such, this CRT does have the goal to make the justification better and decide if it's really invulnerability. @LaserPrecision along some other...
Breadbear83
He/Him- 835
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by seeing the evidence, i now can believe on Mahoraga having invulnerability to Yoru attack because she dont have curse energyInvulnerability of curses
We currently accept that curses have invulnerability. However, our page does not explain it proply, and many people seem to be confused about it. As such, this CRT does have the goal to make the justification better and decide if it's really invulnerability. @LaserPrecision along some other...vsbattles.com
that means the fight is entirely dependant on if Yoru can Weaponize Mahoraga and if Mahoraga could adapt to it, despite Yoru only needing to use the ability on him once
the battle would also end earlier for mahoraga winning if somehow his adaption could ´´adapt´´ to Yorus immortality, which i dont believe he cant just negate immortality of a character hes fighting, you dont see him for example stopping a character doing RCT that regenerates them just like Yorus Devil contract gives her Regeneration
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What immortality does she have that is combat applicable? Is it via the devil/fiend/etc. physiology page? Cuz all I see is when they die they resurrect in Hell (Which would be BFR) as a completely new "person". Pretty sure that'd just constitute a loss since it's not combat applicable immortality.
Breadbear83
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ah, i refer to the current Yoru of the newest Chapters, her current profile is outdated and tomorrow or after tomorrow theres supposed to be and asa/yoru CRT
her current profile is stuck at the Aging Devil arc that ended in chapter 190, we are at Chapter 227, a whole year of chapters later
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How does her current Immortality work (With minimal spoilers if feasible)?
Breadbear83
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it would literally work (and it seems to work) the same way as Makima´s contract with the prime minister of Japan, Yoru made a contract with the governor of california, a State in the United states with a population of 32 million, she explicitly says that, for the price of she not attacking california ´´all californias shall take the burden of my deaths´´
this makes her regenerate easily from being sliced off, and points that she would need to be killed 32 million times to actually die
theres other stuff that shows that her immortality is greater than just regenerating from being sliced off, or even objectively greater than the one of makima but i would need to spoil you much more for it
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Yeah, that'd be hard to counter (If Binding Vows were explored more, it likely wouldn't have, as it seems very feasible Mahoraga would be able to adapt to negate law manip stuff but I digress). But if the fight's location was California, that'd be much easier to counter by the fact Mahoraga's Tier 7 and could just obliterate millions of lives in seconds if Maho needed to.
Breadbear83
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yeah, i have been looking at the abilities she would have after Post Nuclear Weapons boost and she could do that, even more, she was seen having Fallins Gravity Manipulation in Chapter 220
Im not sure if Devil Contract are Law Manipulation, i see the similarity but they arent explored on stuff like even explaining the consequences of breaking them as much as Binding Vows, plus the fact that once again, Yorus abilities arent based on Cursed energy, which is what Mahoraga is more commonly seen adapting to, it being a better explanation to most of the time he adapts to being that he changes in some way his opponents cursed energy, like in that way being able to Destroys Yorozus True Sphere that had infinite Pressure (it hards to believe that so quickly Mahoraga would Adapt to Infinite Pressure, as that an Infinite amount of times higher than his normal strength, an explanation being he manipulating its cursed energy) same thing with Gojos Infinity
as hes not familiar to Devil Contract or Types of Immortality, even less ones that doesnt use Cursed Energy, it certainly should take him longer than just 4 spins to adapt to, if its the case that he could
i may discuss about Devil Contract being Law Manipulation in the Asa/Yoru CRT, as Yoru would have it
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That is not a mechanism. A mechanism would be like there's an active ability that makes the characters invulnerable. As mentioned in the staff thread, servants would actually qualify for invul because they use CM to grant it while another character uses time manip to prevent their body gaining effects from causes.
Also that's just gonna stay as damage reduction up to the tier they can tank.
Breadbear83
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Btw the thread stater Tuxidoe_Redo ain even commenting here, this thread ended up very unorganized on what counts as vote or not
tbh ill wait for the asa/yoru CRT before voting myself, usually most VS takes weeks to be ended, plenty of time to discuss in CRT
tbh ill wait for the asa/yoru CRT before voting myself, usually most VS takes weeks to be ended, plenty of time to discuss in CRT
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Contracts are stated to be law manip on the devil physiology page under contracts. Though to be clear I wasn't saying Mahoraga would adapt to it. I mentioned it as a mere distinct possibility. Mahoraga would more likely opt for the strategy I stated if the fight occurs in Cali cuz he'd be sensing lives/CE dropping like flies when "killing" her. Thus intuiting they need to wipe out a lot of people most likely. Well, that and the fact there'd be a lot of collateral damage regardless due to how aggressive Mahoraga is.
Saqphire
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Exactly. She aint gotta kill the mf, just incapacitate him.
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
What if Yoru traps him in the infinite sized aquarium ? Or uses Bang to shoot the mf into space (Yoru's Bang is stronger than Makima's Bang as it was capable of knocking back a stronger Pochita, meaning his lifting strength / physicals are higher here).
What if Yoru just pulls a Sukuna and nukes the area with Gun Goddess / Nuke Punch ?
She aint gotta kill the mf to win according to SBA. Also Cursed Spirits exist because of negative emotions and Devils in Chainsaw Man exist because of a negative emotion (Fear). That should already be sufficient in inferring that attacks from CSM can affect things that have negative emotion with their energy anyway essentially making the interaction damn near 1:1.
Or even better, what if Yoru.. just takes the f*cking country? Oregon isn't even much smaller than Japan itself (the latter is like 1.5x bigger than the former) so what the hell is Big Raga gonna do when he gets incapacitated by a sudden abyss of land and a massive force of water flooding the area? Especially if the guy can't fly.
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That'd be hard considering she wouldn't be able to see Mahoraga.
Two things being similar doesn't mean they are close enough to be interactive with one another :/
Especially since Devils take on physical forms/avatars that anyone can interact with and see as opposed to being made of CE that no one can sense, see, feel, etc.
To say it's 1:1 is a drastic claim.
To be frank I don't think he'd have much issue adapting flight or being able to use CE to leap off air like Sukuna given he could basically float through the air against Gojo. In fact, I'm pretty sure he did.
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,574
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I forgot to mention, but "near-death" =/= you actually have to be in your last legs. Resurrection works just fine for exploiting that mechanic imo.
In the cases where she does percieve him. She can percieve Pochita dashing around her with her eyes closed, relying on sound to track his position so she doesn't only see to fight.
I'm not tryna argue the fact that they are merely similar. I'm tryna argue that they are almost exactly the same that you might aswell infer the interaction regardless as it'd be absurd otherwise via logical reasoning. Proving that CSM characters can interact with JJK spirits is impossible unless Gege and Fujimoto decide to make both series canon or some sh*t which is why we'd need an abductive reasoning here.
Cursed spirits can be interacted with in that way as well, just under certain conditions as people have laid out. And people interact with devils with energy, same with how people interact with curses with cursed energy, which is verbatim stated to be simply energy. I legitimately cannot see an issue here.
That's why I said near 1:1. The inference comes from how cursed spirits are conceptualised and thinking "Hey, devils are conceptualised in the same way! What's up with that?" basically.
He adapted to Blue, which is not flight, it's merely a pull thingy. The mathematicians say it's some math manip sh*t with space and allat which is not flight and Yoru doesn't have that.
Also, the lack of flight isn't the only problem in this scenario.
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This just confuses me, bro
You guys are telling me he adapts to High 3A attacks, but he died to Hollow Purple, which is city or large town level?
Saqphire
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Sure, but humans can't hear Curses either. Even when said Curses are living on the person's shoulders making noises and groping them. They can't be sensed by touch, sight, or hearing.
It wouldn't be hard to prove they're almost identical if there was actual reasoning besides "Hey, they're both made from negative emotions!" or whatever when the two behave almost entirely different. A more analogous/compatible verse would unironically be Dragon Ball. Not to mention, just because they have fundamental concepts doesn't mean they can channel said concept as negative energy like JJK character's can. It'd be different if they could channel fears as a tangible energy the same way DB character's manifest their soul, courage, etc. as a physical energy. Otherwise, they're just like ordinary humans in JJK who possess CE, but aren't able to channel it to actually use it to harm Curses. They need to be able to utilize the energy or it doesn't do anything.
Curses can only be seen by humans. People don't harm devils with energy. ANYTHING can harm Curses. They just need the AP to do so. Guns, Knives, Explosives, etc. can all kill Devils.
I don't think they are relatively close to 1:1. I covered this in another thread, but the only similarity they vaguely possess is both are made from "negative emotions". Nor can said fears in CSM be used to manifest energy the same way negative emotions in JJK can manifest Cursed Energy. You don't see humans in CSM channeling fear energy and shooting fear blasts or fear punches like you do in JJK. If you can't wield the fear as an energy, then it won't matter.
I was referring to the fact that Mahoraga could stay airborne after jumping up to Blue (Which could no longer pull him since he adapted to it) and when Gojo used Purple. I don't think it'd take long for Mahoraga to just use CE steps like Sukuna to move around and hover.
Mahoraga didn't adapt to energy/ap directly. He adapted to liquid metal, and thus became immune to any byproducts of the metal, and said liquid metal balls could exude energy, with Perfect Sphere exuding infinite energy due to having infinite surface area. Since that High 3-A energy comes from an ability/attack he adapted to, he resists all the other effects of said ability. But that doesn't mean he adapted those other effects themselves. So ye, Purple could kill Maho. Had Maho adapted to Purple before, then yeah, it wouldn't matter how powerful Gojo's purple was, it wouldn't have even scratched Maho.
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Ye I see. I just don't see how he supposed to adapt to AP/DCs, which outscale his capabilities. If this is special case I just don't see how he supposed to survive AP that is beyond his dura or another Galaxy busting attacks
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Oh, well that's simple. He can adapt to pure AP too, but only after being struck/hit by hit. We're seeing that now against Dabura who had gained the KE to splatter Mahoraga into a dust cloud is starting to adapt to his AP rapidly (As brute force attacks are considered simple to adapt to compared to Cursed Techniques). So as long as his regen isn't bypassed, Makora would just adapt to it eventually. If the opponent has the feats/ability to reduce Makora beyond his regeneration, then they'd win.
He didn't need Maho against Yorozu. He chose to use him to test him out and flex tbf. He could've just domain'd and cooked her.
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That just sounds like some NLF, bro, unless you are telling me everyone should be High 3A. That makes sense, but I don't see right now how he's supposed to adapt to every till High 3A attack, ngl.
