Mahito vs Tomura Shigaraki

[LaserPrecision]

Air Cannon is portrayed as faster than Shigaraki’s normal speed, yes, to the point he uses it to propel himself faster. It can be reacted to if you have prior knowledge but it’s dodged to the side and never “outpaced.”

I’m not saying it would kill Mahito, or literally vaporize him. That’s called “exaggeration.” I’m saying it would harm him enough that he would need to regen huge portions of his body, likely from being nothing but blood stains scattered across the city. In which time Shigaraki flies over and pokes him with Decay or blasts him again then Decay. Like there’s really nothing Mahito can do back to him other than run away, which Shigaraki can catch up to easily.

Mahito talking to Shigaraki isn’t happening. Shigaraki is a bit preoccupied being a split personality being that’s constantly fighting for control of the body. Mahito doesn’t even know anything about Shigaraki or AFO to attempt to talk to them. Either personality would ignore or even twist his own words back on him since they have supernatural charisma.

“Low-High” regen doesn’t cover being decayed to dust btw, that would be Mid-High. So if Shigaraki even taps Mahito with decaying rubble he will be in danger of straight up dying.

I dunno if I consider using an ability to propel oneself faster alone as evidence of it scaling above combat speed, though I suppose it could work? Usually It'd be something more obvious like using it to blitz someone equal to or faster than himself. As for it never being outpaced, you could just argue their travel speed <<< combat speed thus why that's never occurred. What's the width or AoE of the attack? I figured it was giant so it couldn't be side-stepped.

My mistake then. Though it was hard to detect the exaggeration with the way you had worded it. "He will instantly get obliterated to nothing by it since Shigaraki is hundreds of thousands of times stronger than him.". I will take note of that for later though. If he closes in after turning him to a stain smeared across the city, that would be good FOR Mahito since he'd then be in range to either touch him or use Domain Expansion (and while I admit I have yet to read MHA, tho I do plan to soon, from what I have seen of Shigaraki fights, it is quite in-character for him to fight in close-range. He doesn't seem like someone who spams range and nothing else from what I saw. Not to say he DOESN'T use range, just that he doesn't abuse it).

So is he like mindless always fighting for control? Or is it just two alternating personalities? The way you worded it at first made it sound like at every second he's switching between each personality and is a crazed lunatic, but then your later statement makes it seem as though he's stable but just switching between two personalities. I will say he wouldn't really need to know them to attempt goading them though. You don't really need to know someone to annoy/pester them into playing into your hand. Though I can concede to it not being very effective.

I'm aware (Tho I do think his regen should be changed back to low-godly, but that's for another time). I just don't think it's likely he'll fall victim to decay. Especially if Shigaraki tries to use it from a distance. Up close I think it's feasible, but at that point I think Mahito transfiguring him is more likely.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I mean has Mahito ever outran an attack of this scale before? He has no knowledge of the attack, so believing that he will turn around and fly away before it catches up to him is hard to believe, especially when the attack is always portrayed as faster than usual. AFO used it against All Might, who is equal to him in speed, and he only ever dodged to the side or blocked it head on. Turning around and flying back from it as if it were just a normal person moving towards you isn’t exactly logical, it’s a shockwave attack that is usually done in less than a second even compared to Shigaraki.

Shigaraki is also massively faster than Mahito in speed unequal so if we’re trying to count the Air Cannon as a separate speed attack then it would blitz Mahito.

AFO and Shigaraki are constantly battling on the inside and have bouts of identity crisis but are overall a single being that can make its own decisions. It’s just that talking to him is, quite frankly, ridiculously stupid when the two personalities making him up are so strong willed.

If they blast Mahito to a blood stain and then see him coming back with his regen, they just blast him again then decay the whole city while he’s regenerating on the ground. The opening moves of Shigaraki are “Air Cannon” or “City-Wide Decay.” He only engages in h2h when he gives a damn about who he’s fighting and wants their Quirk.

Maybe he would get closer after the first blast and try to touch him but then it’s just a toss up of Mahito not getting deleted by another Air Cannon the second they see him move and then getting decayed alongside the city.



Shigaraki is above the clouds and is hitting the sea, which is several kilometers below, with his Air Cannon. It’s not even showing the full width or range of it since it goes off screen.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I mean has Mahito ever outran an attack of this scale before?

The size of an attack doesn't matter if the speed is equal. Well, I guess that's circumstantial since if you did an omnidirectional attack against someone who can't fly or escape earth's atmosphere that'd be an issue. But as this is just a shockwave, yes, you could outrun it IF you are either faster or equal in speed to the projectile. If there was a bullet behind you moving at a pace equal or slower than you, and you ran the other way before it got close, you'd outrun it. This wouldn't change even if the bullet was 100 kilometers wide. You'd still remain ahead of the bullet or outpace it if you're equal in speed or faster than it.

He has no knowledge of the attack, so believing that he will turn around and fly away before it catches up to him is hard to believe

I mean isn't SBA that they start kilometers away because of Shigaraki's range? He has several Kilometers to react in a speed equalized match. He'd have plenty of time to turn around and fly away. Especially since Mahito has shown to be particularly agile/acrobatic with his shapeshifting. Him turning around to fly or run away before it reaches him so it can disperse is entirely plausible.

especially when the attack is always portrayed as faster than usual. AFO used it against All Might, who is equal to him in speed, and he only ever dodged to the side or blocked it head on.

So it can be reacted to and thus likely scales to combat speed. I can see the concern with choosing not to outrun it, but that's because typically combat speed is far superior to travel speed in most fictions. The exceptions are typically speedsters who are depicted as being able to run fast and fight fast. But most of the time, character's will have vaguely superhuman travel speed with far faster combat speed (This is a very common occurence). Mahito doesn't have this issue tho, not only can he increase his travel speed to a point he can blitz someone comparable to him by changing his legs shape to be that of a gazelle (or whatever the hell kinda feet he had when he struct Nanami) and was able to have Mechamaru's homing lasers trail behind him when flying. So his travel speed should be equal if not superior depending on how he shapeshifts.

Turning around and flying back from it as if it were just a normal person moving towards you isn’t exactly logical, it’s a shockwave attack that is usually done in less than a second even compared to Shigaraki.

It being a shockwave doesn't make it an exception. If a shockwave was moving at you at a speed equal to your travel speed, and you had several meters to react, you'd be able to turn around, and outrun it (Of course irl this isn't feasible as any shockwave would be WAYYYY faster than you or anyone for that matter). It could be a person, a shockwave, a bullet, a laser, it doesn't matter. If it's speed isn't greater than yours, it couldn't overtake you if you started running away from it. Now if it were point blank? Sure. You wouldn't have much time to turn around and make a break for it. But from Kilometers away? Not an issue.

Shigaraki is also massively faster than Mahito in speed unequal so if we’re trying to count the Air Cannon as a separate speed attack then it would blitz Mahito.

Yes, tho speed is equalized here for that reason. The shockwave seems to scale to Shigaraki's combat speed from what you described, Mahito's travel speed = his combat speed. So in a speed equalized match, if he wanted to fly/run away, he could. In most battles tho, yeah, people couldn't outrun it since their travel speed <<< their combat speed, and in an equalized match, their travel speed is lowered to be as many times slower than their combat speed as it is usually. Meaning Shigaraki's projectiles would be faster than their travel speed in an equalized speed match.

AFO and Shigaraki are constantly battling on the inside and have bouts of identity crisis but are overall a single being that can make its own decisions. It’s just that talking to him is, quite frankly, ridiculously stupid when the two personalities making him up are so strong willed.

Alright, that clears things up. Thank you for clarifying again.

If they blast Mahito to a blood stain and then see him coming back with his regen, they just blast him again then decay the whole city while he’s regenerating on the ground. The opening moves of Shigaraki are “Air Cannon” or “City-Wide Decay.” He only engages in h2h when he gives a damn about who he’s fighting and wants their Quirk.

I mean if he's blasted to a stain, and sees another one incoming, he's unlikely to just lay there and let it hit him again. His technique allows for great maneuverability and speed amps. So he'd prolly duck out the way if he was hit once and saw another one incoming.

I think the last point is kind of moot. Because in this battle he DOES give a damn about Mahito. Pretty sure SBA has them wanting to target and kill each other. But even if he didn't, I assume he'd want to close the gap when he realizes ranged combat is effective against someone like Mahito.

Maybe he would get closer after the first blast and try to touch him but then it’s just a toss up of Mahito not getting deleted by another Air Cannon the second they see him move and then getting decayed alongside the city.

I was going to mention that. You said if he wanted their quirk he'd also go for H2H. I think if they saw Mahito regening and shapeshifting and doing weird shit with their body they'd attempt to take their "quirk".

Shigaraki is above the clouds and is hitting the sea, which is several kilometers below, with his Air Cannon. It’s not even showing the full width or range of it since it goes off screen.

The full length isn't shown, but based on the curvature, it doesn't look like it gets much wider than what's on the panel. Albeit that's still pretty big. Like at least tens of meters.

With all that said, even discounting the things that make the match impossible for Shigaraki, I think he'd be able to get Shigaraki to come in close (Well, assuming they start far away from each other anyway. It'd be different if they started out a couple meters apart). Which from there he'd be able to transfigure him. I'd give it to Shigaraki if Mahito was an absolute dumbass, but given how capable he is in combat, I'd say he wins.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I feel like your interpretation of the Air Cannon being dodged by “he just runs away” is quite ridiculous.

In every instance of the Air Cannon Quirk, it travels its full distance faster than someone dodging it to the side will travel theirs. In the scan I just showed, Shigaraki’s blast hit kilometers away from himself in a near instant, with those fighter jets moving before he even fired and still almost getting hit and needing to activate their shields. Your argument that Mahito just runs away is reliant on the Air Cannon not just being faster than Mahito, which it is. It’s a very bad faith argument.

“Give a damn” as in cares about him more than he would a random person. Mahito is, for all intents and purposes, an ant to him. Shigaraki wants to kill everyone he meets, Mahito is not special or will get special treatment, he will kill him fast and go away. The only thing Shigaraki cares about in character is getting One For All and anything related to One For All. Mahito is a severely underpowered being stepping in front of him that he can reduce to a stain on the ground with a sweep of his hand, and he will know that due to his Search quirk and ability to gauge his opponents strength.

“Tens of meters” as if it very clearly is not hitting the sea level from several kilometers above the cloud layer. He absolutely devastates Mahito and he’s not dodging it. I’d your concern is distance, Shigaraki just gets closer and splatters him then, unless Mahito is dumb and won’t try to get closer.

By your own logic, Mahito’s hand is moving at a speed Shigaraki can react at, so he would just dodge or create a barrier for the same reasons Mahito would dodge the Air Cannon. Your own logic defeats your stance.

Also how on earth is he touching Shigaraki if he just flexes a finger and blows Mahito’s hand off? Or creates a forcefield and blocks his hand? Or just dodges backwards with his own flight? Or point blank Air Cannon and turns him to paste? How is Mahito ever even getting close to touch him in any circumstance other than being a puddle of blood in range for decay?

Mahito doesn’t have a Quirk, at best that would spark AFO’s interest. Other than that, Mahito is a literal nobody to him that he will kill like a fly on the wall. And no, his shapeshifting is horrible compared to what Shigaraki can do himself. Literally nothing Mahito has is interesting to Shigaraki, he will swat him and move on with his day.

He doesn’t need to be close to Mahito to kill him with decay if Mahito is nothing but blood stains.

He splatters him, sees he can regen, splatters him again, touches the ground, gg Mahito.

 

[SuperStar]

Unequalized Speed

 

[LaserPrecision]

I feel like your interpretation of the Air Cannon being dodged by “he just runs away” is quite ridiculous.

In every instance of the Air Cannon Quirk, it travels its full distance faster than someone dodging it to the side will travel theirs.

Which is again an issue of travel speed. It means the character who side-step the blast have travel speed inferior to their combat speed.

In the scan I just showed, Shigaraki’s blast hit kilometers away from himself in a near instant, with those fighter jets moving before he even fired and still almost getting hit and needing to activate their shields.

Which is again an issue of travel speed. If their travel speed was equal to that of the shockwave, they would be able to stay out of its reach.

Your argument that Mahito just runs away is reliant on the Air Cannon not just being faster than Mahito, which it is. It’s a very bad faith argument.

It is in speed unequal. It wouldn't be in speed equal if it isn't faster than Shigaraki's combat speed. If it scales to being equal to his combat speed, then it is avoidable. If there's cases of it blitzing people equal to him, I will concede to that. If people equal to him can put their arms up to block it, then it doesn't scale above his combat speed. But from what you told me, people comparable to him could step out of its way or block it before it hits them (they can react). It is not bad faith if it is not presented as superior to his own combat speed. I don't want cases of it being superior to his travel speed. I want cases of it being faster than he or those equal to him can react to. As Mahito's travel speed ~ his combat speed.

“Give a damn” as in cares about him more than he would a random person. Mahito is, for all intents and purposes, an ant to him. Shigaraki wants to kill everyone he meets, Mahito is not special or will get special treatment, he will kill him fast and go away. The only thing Shigaraki cares about in character is getting One For All and anything related to One For All. Mahito is a severely underpowered being stepping in front of him that he can reduce to a stain on the ground with a sweep of his hand, and he will know that due to his Search quirk and ability to gauge his opponents strength.

Though as you noted yourself, if a Quirk intrigues him he'd be tempted to approach to try and take it. Perhaps Mahito's strength may not interest him. But being able to regen from being reduced to a stain instantly would certainly be something to note. As would his ability to shapeshift and fire projectiles and manipulate their trajectory for multiple purposes.

“Tens of meters” as if it very clearly is not hitting the sea level from several kilometers above the cloud layer.

I was explicitly referring to the width, not the length. The length is very clearly Kilometer long as per your statement:

The full length isn't shown, but based on the curvature, it doesn't look like it gets much wider than what's on the panel. Albeit that's still pretty big. Like at least tens of meters.

I suppose the "full length" thing might've threw you off. So I apologize for the miscommunication there. I was referring to the length of the width. The width doesn't seem to be kilometers wide or anything. Just tens of meters. Albeit it does look like a strange angle.

He absolutely devastates Mahito and he’s not dodging it.

It would certainly devastate Mahito, but saying he can't dodge it is far from the truth. If those equal to him can already slip off to the side or block it before being hit, than certainly Mahito from ten kilometers or even in relatively close range (not point blank, but like numerous meters away) he could side-step it due to speed equalization and having the ability to instantly buff his speed to a point he can blitz someone equal/comparable to him from across the room by changing the shape of his leg into that of an animal. That or he could contort his body to evade the blast (Whether that be opening a large gap in his stomach or stretching his torso off to the side, etc.), though I feel the former is more likely since he's done that twice.

I’d your concern is distance, Shigaraki just gets closer and splatters him then, unless Mahito is dumb and won’t try to get closer.

Nothing dumb about trying to stay out of the reach of an opponent. In fact, he's done this against Mechamaru, opting for flying away from his homing projectiles and luring him in close so he could use Domain Expansion (Which is also part of an elaborate plan that strings past that). And when Shigaraki does get closer, Domain Expansion becomes an option that is an instant win for Mahito. Though it does become harder to dodge in close quarters.

By your own logic, Mahito’s hand is moving at a speed Shigaraki can react at, so he would just dodge or create a barrier for the same reasons Mahito would dodge the Air Cannon. Your own logic defeats your stance.

I mean if Mahito tried to stretch his hands 100 meters or smth in a straight line, then yeah, Shigaraki has plenty of time to react. This doesn't defeat anything. At point blank range, I already stated things change. I noted that in my previous response:

It could be a person, a shockwave, a bullet, a laser, it doesn't matter. If it's speed isn't greater than yours, it couldn't overtake you if you started running away from it. Now if it were point blank? Sure. You wouldn't have much time to turn around and make a break for it. But from Kilometers away? Not an issue.

I'm not sure where I expressed that Mahito could dodge any attack from Shigaraki point-blank. Just that it's easy to do from kilometers away. Or hundreds of meters away. The point where it would become difficult to manage is the point where Mahito can pull of his win-cons (Domain Expansion or just hand contact. Tho given how tricky of an opponent Shigaraki is, I would think Mahito opts for Domain Expansion).

Though I should note it's not impossible to dodge attacks point-blank either. It's just substantially harder, though not impossible (Look at boxing for reference). Especially when you've got a technique that greatly enhances your maneuverability and nimbleness. But that's besides the point.

Also how on earth is he touching Shigaraki if he just flexes a finger and blows Mahito’s hand off? Or creates a forcefield and blocks his hand? Or just dodges backwards with his own flight? Or point blank Air Cannon and turns him to paste? How is Mahito ever even getting close to touch him in any circumstance other than being a puddle of blood in range for decay?

Under the assumption Shigaraki has closed in for any reason (Based on your previous statements, he only does this if the opponent interests him, or he wants their technique. So I'm assuming that to be the case here) then it becomes harder to react to attacks effectively. Especially if Mahito his abilities, that can again let him blitz people comparable to him from across the room. Landing a single finger on him is is very feasible from close range. Though as I noted earlier, after seeing Shigaraki's strength, he's likely to opt for Domain Expansion. Which instantly spells defeat for Shigaraki the moment he's captured within it.

Mahito doesn’t have a Quirk, at best that would spark AFO’s interest.

I'm aware he doesn't. But Shigaraki wouldn't know that. Well, not that I'm aware of anyway. I assume Shigaraki would see Mahito do all of the things previously mentioned and believe Mahito to have a Quirk.

And no, his shapeshifting is horrible compared to what Shigaraki can do himself.

Ehh, not sure about that. He can turn parts of his body into weapons, create duplicates, shapeshift into any animal, reform from nearly anything, distort and shoot his body in almost any fashion, etc. I don't really think that's "horrible" compared to what Shigaraki can do. In fact, from what I've seen on Shigaraki's profile (There could be more left out), comatively Mahito's seems significantly more advantageous in a fight than Shigaraki's. Only thing I think going for Shigaraki would be the range. But versatility seems to easily go to Mahito.

He doesn’t need to be close to Mahito to kill him with decay if Mahito is nothing but blood stains.

Which Mahito should be able to effortlessly come back from and thus react to. If it were super slow regen sure. But the speed at which he regenerates is extremely quick.

He splatters him, sees he can regen, splatters him again, touches the ground, gg Mahito.

He gets splattered, regens, avoids being splattered again until Shigaraki gets close, Domain Expansion, gg Shigaraki.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

So you agree he gets splattered on the first Air Cannon.

I’m ignoring all those other pointless arguments like shapeshifting, as Mahito will never even get to display them since he gets instantly splattered and has to regen.

AFO knows if he has a Quirk or not, his ability literally lets him know that.

How fast does Mahito regenerate and what’s his resistance to fear inducement. Cause the second he sees Shigaraki, he gets paralyzed by fear and decayed.

Shigaraki uses Air Cannon, Mahito gets splattered, Mahito regens, Shigaraki gets closer and uses Fear Inducement, he touches the ground, Mahito doesn’t do shit because of fear inducement, gg Mahito.

 

[Gitagon]

Do Curses still have incorporeality on this site? I remember this being a debate a while back and I'm almost sure it was removed. In the series, Curses can't do stuff like phase through solid matter. They have to go through doors like everyone else, and punching them into a wall, the ground, trees, etc will cause them pain. They don't just phase through solid matter. .

The only depiction of incorporeal Curses I remember was in the anime, Episode 1. But it isn't that way in the manga.

 

[Arkenis]

this should be closed. Mahito will have much more hax after changes are done. right now he is extremely outdated

 

[Arkenis]

Do Curses still have incorporeality on this site? I remember this being a debate a while back and I'm almost sure it was removed. In the series, Curses can't do stuff like phase through solid matter. They have to go through doors like everyone else, and punching them into a wall, the ground, trees, etc will cause them pain. They don't just phase through solid matter. .

The only depiction of incorporeal Curses I remember was in the anime, Episode 1. But it isn't that way in the manga.

Mainly low level curses are incorporeal.

 

[Arkenis]

Can decay decay abstract based energy like curse energy is? And can he effect the soul?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Can decay decay abstract based energy like curse energy is? And can he effect the soul?

No, the arguments are all for fun if nothing else. This match can’t really happen since he can’t affect Mahito normally.

 

[speedster352]

this should be closed. Mahito will have much more hax after changes are done. right now he is extremely outdated

Another jjk crt?

 

[SuperStar]

Another jjk crt?

That will take 6 years to be finished.

 

[LaserPrecision]

So you agree he gets splattered on the first Air Cannon.

Not really, but I didn't want to ruin the rephrasing by changing it too much. SBA means they start kilometers apart due to Shigaraki's range advantage, and I believe Mahito would be able to easily evade attacks from Shigaraki from kilometers away.

I’m ignoring all those other pointless arguments like shapeshifting, as Mahito will never even get to display them since he gets instantly splattered and has to regen.

Sure, I should've expected that. Anyway, far from the truth. Mahito shapeshifts in like every fight he's in. It'd likely be the very first thing he does. Nor would he get caught in the air cannon 4 kilometers away from him.

AFO knows if he has a Quirk or not, his ability literally lets him know that.

Fair. Though he may just end up thinking Mahito's "quirk" allows him to hide that he has a quirk. I mean, I don't think the verse is used to people having superpowers without having the genetic deviant that makes up quirks.

How fast does Mahito regenerate and what’s his resistance to fear inducement. Cause the second he sees Shigaraki, he gets paralyzed by fear and decayed.

It kinda varies in terms of speed as its dependent on how fast he wants to regen/reshape his body. Sometimes he'll wait a long time to trick an opponent into thinking he died, sometimes it'll be immediate. I can grab scans of demonstrations if you want. Hmm, good question. I'm not sure if it's yet accepted that Sukuna has fear manip, but his mere presence strikes fear in those around him, causing them to freeze up and follow his orders (such as kneeling before him). Mahito albeit shocked by the presence the first time, was shown to have no such issue when confronting him in the Mahito vs Todo and Itadori fight. So he should have a resistance. I'll prolly make a CRT soon after this after I finish up some other CRT's I have planned for Sonic.

Shigaraki uses Air Cannon, Mahito gets splattered, Mahito regens, Shigaraki gets closer and uses Fear Inducement, he touches the ground, Mahito doesn’t do shit because of fear inducement, gg Mahito.

Same as before. He should be capable of resisting fear manip pretty easily so that ain't really an issue.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Same as before. He should be capable of resisting fear manip pretty easily so that ain't really an issue.

How potent is Sukuna’s fear manip. Because it doesn’t matter if he resists it if what he can resists is lower than what Shigaraki can do. That’s basic knowledge.

His fear manip also seems to only make people feel inferior to him. Shigaraki, before he even got AFO and had his willpower boosted, could make dozens of people stop moving entirely with just a stare, despite them being mentally amplified by a Quirk that made them supernaturally willing to die for their leader.

Then after getting AFO, just getting near him and having his attention is enough to cause hallucinations of your death.

 

[Danny33wise]

Instead of removing an ability from mahito, why not just add a rule that shigaraki can interact with curse spirit.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Instead of removing an ability from mahito, why not just add a rule that shigaraki can interact with curse spirit.

That would just do the same thing. Doesn’t really matter.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

This is a mismatch. Regardless of how cool this match may sound due to their similarities as characters, there's too much incompatibility here. Tomura's got a massive AP advantage but no real way to touch or see Mahito, while Mahito's got a massive AP disadvantage but soul hax that could obliterate Tomura. This should be closed.

 

[LaserPrecision]

How potent is Sukuna’s fear manip. Because it doesn’t matter if he resists it if what he can resists is lower than what Shigaraki can do. That’s basic knowledge.

It causes those who oppose him or wanted to recruit him to immediately freeze up in fear and immediately yield to his command due to the strong presence of his soul IIRC. I can get scans if you want.

Anyway, I think resistances don't work like that for fear manip. I'm pretty sure it comes down to layers. Unless the fear manip is through some extremely convoluted method.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It causes those who oppose him or wanted to recruit him to immediately freeze up in fear and immediately yield to his command due to the strong presence of his soul IIRC. I can get scans if you want.

Anyway, I think resistances don't work like that for fear manip. I'm pretty sure it comes down to layers. Unless the fear manip is through some extremely convoluted method.

First I’ve ever heard of fear manip not relying on the scale of range. And even then, his base fear manip is amplified by AFO’s presence, which is what lets it cause illusions of death. It’s literally his fear manip + AFO’s fear manip.

So yeah, it’s layered if that’s what you want to call it. Either way you slice it, it’s superior to “makes people give up,” via skips straight to “you see your death vividly and submit to him on a biological level” as shown with Re-Destro not even being able to gather his stress via Shigaraki’s presence.

He could overpower an ability specifically designed to remove the fear of death with his fear manip. And then it was amplified. Sukuna’s fear manip is not that potent.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Not to mention, it seems like Mahito didn’t even resist it. He was effected like everyone else but then got out of it if I’m understanding correctly. So he wouldn’t have a resistance in the first place.

 

[SuperStar]

Welp time to downgrade Mahito again.

 

[LaserPrecision]

First I’ve ever heard of fear manip not relying on the scale of range.

I've never heard of scale being dependent on range. That just sounds like how far it can affect you from.

And even then, his base fear manip is amplified by AFO’s presence, which is what lets it cause illusions of death. It’s literally his fear manip + AFO’s fear manip.

So yeah, it’s layered if that’s what you want to call it.

That's not what layered is. Layered means the fear manip can affect someone who's previously shown a resistance to fear manip. If someone resisted Shigaraki's fear manip before, being completely unaffected by it, but was entirely affected by the fear manip later on, that would make it layered.

Either way you slice it, it’s superior to “makes people give up,” via skips straight to “you see your death vividly and submit to him on a biological level” as shown with Re-Destro not even being able to gather his stress via Shigaraki’s presence.

From how it's described, it just sounds like he's too scared to feel stress. Ig you could say its on a biological level? But if that's the case almost all fear manip is biological since fear is a biological function.

He could overpower an ability specifically designed to remove the fear of death with his fear manip. And then it was amplified.

Can I see a scan regarding the ability designed to remove the fear of death? And then them affecting said ability?

Not to mention, it seems like Mahito didn’t even resist it. He was effected like everyone else but then got out of it if I’m understanding correctly. So he wouldn’t have a resistance in the first place.

The first time he encounters Sukuna it does, yeah. In his last encounter with Sukuna when fighting Itadori and Todo he wasn't and was able to move normally without any signs of fear. In fact, he was talking shit to Sukuna, threatening that he'd kill Itadori which would be bad for Sukuna.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I've never heard of scale being dependent on range. That just sounds like how far it can affect you from.

That's not what layered is. Layered means the fear manip can affect someone who's previously shown a resistance to fear manip. If someone resisted Shigaraki's fear manip before, being completely unaffected by it, but was entirely affected by the fear manip later on, that would make it layered.

From how it's described, it just sounds like he's too scared to feel stress. Ig you could say its on a biological level? But if that's the case almost all fear manip is biological since fear is a biological function.

Can I see a scan regarding the ability designed to remove the fear of death? And then them affecting said ability?

The first time he encounters Sukuna it does, yeah. In his last encounter with Sukuna when fighting Itadori and Todo he wasn't and was able to move normally without any signs of fear. In fact, he was talking shit to Sukuna, threatening that he'd kill Itadori which would be bad for Sukuna.

Pretty sure range has been the deciding thing for mental affects on this wiki for years. Extenuating things can make it better sure but range has been how we scale that at least to my knowledge.

I mean regardless of it being layered, making the claim that Mahito will not be affected by this clearly superior and more intense fear manipulation because he can not feel Sukuna’s fear manip is quite the claim. Even Base Shigaraki’s fear manip is superior to what Sukuna has shown, why would it matter if he hasn’t affected someone that was immune to it after it got amplified?

For Re-Destro, he got stunned by Shigaraki’s sheer charisma and feeling of Liberation, to the point it back tracked out of fear, which would have made him stressed. It instead turned into him wanting to serve Shigaraki, so much he became unafraid of him and instead just gave up. This is also why he has Social Influencing because his presence causing fear is just one part of



Not exactly overcome the fear of death but their mentality is boosted. It’s been described as only working on absolute fanatics, and these same people watched their own get decayed to nothing, burned to corpses and killed in droves thousands of times over without even flinching. Shigaraki looked at them and they couldn’t even move despite Trumpet yelling with his support equipment enhanced Quirk telling them to go.

That sounds like he got used to it, not that he doesn’t still feel it. He could feel the fear and just ignore it, as we have Bakugo doing for our profiles. But that would only limit it to what Sukuna’s fear actually does, not make it so that he’s just immune to any type of fear manip. If anything this would prove that he would absolutely feel fear from Shigaraki, it’s just a matter of how he would handle it, and given his first time meeting Sukuna made him stop moving, meeting Shigaraki would do the same on a higher scale as he will feel everything he felt for Sukuna ramped up + seeing his own death.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Like I’m pretty certain the amount of people you affect with you hax = the potency of it compared to other similar hax.

That’s quite literally why I remember so many upgrade threads for Rimuru Tempest’s passive fear and other hax. He can affect hundreds of thousands of people with it, so just having a baseline resistance to fear doesn’t mean anything to him.

 

[Arkenis]

This fear point should be dropped in all honesty, Mahito doesn't have it listed as a resistance and I don't even know if he actually resisted it either.

The first time he encounters Sukuna it does, yeah. In his last encounter with Sukuna when fighting Itadori and Todo he wasn't and was able to move normally without any signs of fear. In fact, he was talking shit to Sukuna, threatening that he'd kill Itadori which would be bad for Sukuna.

Sukuna's fear manip stems from actually asserting himself and telling you what to do like how he does to Jogo though no? I don't remember him doing that to Mahito.

Honestly I don't even think Sukuna's fear is supernatural, he's just very scary due to his power but they are able to move and even ask him for stuff, so it's not just his presence, its not some passive fear aura.

Edited: Rereading it, the way it works seems to be in comparison to the person he's near, the sister's completely bowed their heads, while Jogo only kneeled, it could be based on power is what im getting at

 

[Kingofwolves999]

From the Hax page:

Having resistances to certain hax can help characters/things to withstand them, but only if the specific resistances are around the same scale as the hax being used against them, or better.


Note 2: When judging the potency of hax-based abilities such as Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation, and the resistance against them, there is a variety of factors to be potentially considered. Such as the mechanisms involved, how many people the power can affect, whether it has demonstrated to break through resistances, how great the effects are, etc.

These factors need to be examined with the mechanism in mind, to determine if they actually demonstrate potency. For example, for a mind-controlling gas simply affecting more people with it, by using lots of the gas, would not indicate an increase in potency of the gas as simply more of it was used. The effect couldn't be accumulated to be as strong on a single target as it is on all affected individuals summed up.

Whether a power can overcome a resistance against it based on certain feats has to be determined by comparing the various factors at play. For example, a resistance can be overcome by Mind Manipulation with higher potency in any factor, if the resistance is equal, less or unknown in all other factors. When it comes to resistance that is above the Mind Manipulation in some factors, while the Mind Manipulation that is superior in other factors, one has to see on a case-by-case basis whether a convincing argument can be put forth. Otherwise, such a situation will have an inconclusive result.

How the mechanism of the power (Such as the before-mentioned Mind Manipulation) interacts with the mechanism of the resistance is, of course, also relevant.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

This fear point should be dropped in all honesty, Mahito doesn't have it listed as a resistance and I don't even know if he actually resisted it either.


Sukuna's fear manip stems from actually asserting himself and telling you what to do like how he does to Jogo though no? I don't remember him doing that to Mahito.

Honestly I don't even think Sukuna's fear is supernatural, he's just very scary due to his power but they are able to move and even ask him for stuff, so it's not just his presence, its not some passive fear aura.

Edited: Rereading it, the way it works seems to be in comparison to the person he's near, the sister's completely bowed their heads, while Jogo only kneeled, it could be based on power is what im getting at

I mean if that’s the case, Shigaraki would make Mahito see his death and Mahito would just kinda freeze. His fear Inducement isn’t a “power” thing, it’s literally a representation of his willpower over someone else. Even someone like Stain could fear manip a far stronger character like Endeavor with his willpower while in a damaged state, and that level of intimidation is weaker than what Shigaraki could do before he got stronger.

So I’m not seeing a way for Mahito to not get fear haxxed -> decayed

 

[Arkenis]

I mean even taking into account Mahito resisted it, yeah the fact he Shig can effect more people and he can do so to stronger people, that should be enough

 

[LaserPrecision]

Pretty sure range has been the deciding thing for mental affects on this wiki for years. Extenuating things can make it better sure but range has been how we scale that at least to my knowledge.

Ohhh, I think I know the issue. I actually heard about this. That years ago the range and how many people it affected decided the potency of mind hax. However, from what I heard, that was changed in turn for layers. The only hax layers don't apply to are hax which has potency that can be measured (like heat or radiation where the potency can be obtained through real numbers). But for mind-hax, you gotta show being able to affect people that have resistances. At least that's what I've heard from the time I've been on here.

I mean regardless of it being layered, making the claim that Mahito will not be affected by this clearly superior and more intense fear manipulation because he can not feel Sukuna’s fear manip is quite the claim.

But the intensity/potency is measured in layers... well ig technically the affects it has on people can at least put it above baseline but not above layers. Like fear manip that affects ones very concept would be > standard fear manip. But I don't think Shigaraki's fear manip based on what was on the profile sounds more potent. Just sounds like he affected more people.

For Re-Destro, he got stunned by Shigaraki’s sheer charisma and feeling of Liberation, to the point it back tracked out of fear, which would have made him stressed. It instead turned into him wanting to serve Shigaraki, so much he became unafraid of him and instead just gave up. This is also why he has Social Influencing because his presence causing fear is just one part of

Not exactly overcome the fear of death but their mentality is boosted. It’s been described as only working on absolute fanatics, and these same people watched their own get decayed to nothing, burned to corpses and killed in droves thousands of times over without even flinching. Shigaraki looked at them and they couldn’t even move despite Trumpet yelling with his support equipment enhanced Quirk telling them to go.

Ah, alright, I think I get it. While I don't think that would be layered, it'd definitely be better than like standard fear manip. I think Sukuna's presence shakes people to their very soul IIRC tho. And can affect the disaster cursed spirits which are the embodiments of fear. I don't think it'd really be standard fear manip either. At best, Mahito may be affected, but I don't think it'd damper him nearly as badly as those other people he struct fear into.

That sounds like he got used to it, not that he doesn’t still feel it.

If he got used to it, then that'd still be a resistance he developed. His fear manip his a hax that unnaturally induces fear. It's not like a real fear where you can overcome it through exposure and mental training. His fear manip unwillingly causes a fear response though unknown means. The first times Mahito was exposed to him to froze up. In the instance I mentioned, he didn't even seem phased.

He could feel the fear and just ignore it

Unlikely, no one else was able to ever overcome it. The only one you could MAYBE argue overcame it is Jogo, but that's because Sukuna used the fear he induced into Jogo to FORCE Jogo into a fight.

Sukuna's fear manip stems from actually asserting himself and telling you what to do like how he does to Jogo though no? I don't remember him doing that to Mahito.

I recall Mahito freezing up and looking terrified immediately after trying to transfigure Itadori before Sukuna asserted himself. Tho it has been a while since I read the chapter.

Honestly I don't even think Sukuna's fear is supernatural, he's just very scary due to his power but they are able to move and even ask him for stuff, so it's not just his presence, its not some passive fear aura.

From what I recall, it was noted to be his presence or soul that struct fear in them.

Edited: Rereading it, the way it works seems to be in comparison to the person he's near, the sister's completely bowed their heads, while Jogo only kneeled, it could be based on power is what im getting at

I think that was just Jogo not being aware he needed to bow in an arbitrary way rather than it being because of the distance.