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Mahito vs Tomura Shigaraki
- Thread starter Stupits
- Start date
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Specify what keys. Tomura only has 8-B and 7-A keys, all of Mahito's are "at least High 7-C". I don't think there's a way to do this without giving either side an AP advantage but they're both pretty haxxed so it might not matter.
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- Thread starter
- #3
Highest Keys so Tomura 7-A and Mahito High 7-C. I think Mahito’s Hax are enough to make this an interesting battle but I might be wrong.
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To be honest it's pretty much Shigaraki's Deconstruction vs Mahito's soul manip. While Mahito's is more deadly I believe (one tap and it's gg compared to Shigaraki where people have time to cut off the affected limb i think), Shigaraki has a lot of advantages.
Info Analysis and ESP would let him analyse Mahito's weaknesses, he's very mobile, can also grow extra limbs.
Class 5 against Class T LS but grappling in any way is a horrible idea for both of them so Shigaraki probably won't be able to use his advantage there.
Info Analysis and ESP would let him analyse Mahito's weaknesses, he's very mobile, can also grow extra limbs.
Class 5 against Class T LS but grappling in any way is a horrible idea for both of them so Shigaraki probably won't be able to use his advantage there.
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Shigiraki can't grow limbs in this key, that's Final Act Arc Shigiraki.
Anyway both characters have one shot hax but Shigiraki starts off with Decay that can cover up to kilometers in range. He can control the speed of it too.
Mahito does have flight, but I don't know if he can shape his soul to fly before Decay hits him. But since Cursed Spirits are incorporeal, you need Non-Physical Interaction to fight them, so not sure if decay will work.
So this match up doesn't work.
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He said highest keys, i.e 7-A Shigi with AFO, no?
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Yea but we don’t have a key for Shigiraki with the growth yet.
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Ah, got it. Can't regular humans see and interact with Cursed Spirits if they have strong enough intent to kill? I vaguely remember that being mentioned somewhere around where Megumi learned his incomplete Domain Expansion.
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Not sure but even so if Shigiraki can interact with Mahito then it’s a stomp in Shigiraki’s favor but if he can’t then Mahito stomps.
Shey
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No such thing.
Only similar statements are such that Dying humans release a large amount of Cursed Energy which enables humans who wouldn't normally be able to see Cursed Spirits see them before passing.
But even then, some people still wouldn't be able to see them, like the Guy that Mahito put Eso into
Harming them also requires Cursed Energy
noisyPitta
She/Her- 417
- 171
Ignoring the fact that Shigiraki has no way of seeing or interacting with Mahito and bring it down to just Decay vs Transfiguration, I still think Mahito wins.
If Mahito gets touched and starts to decay, he can very easily change the shape of his body and cut off the limb, since it does no actual damage to his soul. If a normal human like Redestro could do this with his legs I see no reason why Mahito, an experienced shapeshifter, would have any problem countering it.
If Shigaraki gets touched with Idle Transfiguration, there is still a chance that he could cut off a limb to save himself (like Todo did) but unless we're using Shigaraki's final form, then he wouldn't have the regen required to keep fighting after that.
If Mahito gets touched and starts to decay, he can very easily change the shape of his body and cut off the limb, since it does no actual damage to his soul. If a normal human like Redestro could do this with his legs I see no reason why Mahito, an experienced shapeshifter, would have any problem countering it.
If Shigaraki gets touched with Idle Transfiguration, there is still a chance that he could cut off a limb to save himself (like Todo did) but unless we're using Shigaraki's final form, then he wouldn't have the regen required to keep fighting after that.
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His decay speed is slower before he gets AFO. Also, Shigiraki's widespread decay in AFO can't be dodged since it can spread to things he hasn't touched the rubble or anything decay has touched will also affect the person, so any even if a piece of rubble hits Mahito he will start to decay.
Mahito can't regenerate anything affected by decay since regenerating from decay requires Mid-High and Mahito only has Possibly Low-High.
Even if Mahito somehow avoids widespread decay, close range decay is instant, and Shigiraki in base was able to decay someone's face before they could react.
If Mahito hits Shigiraki with Idle Config, he can basically do the same thing as Todo and his limb would just regenerate.
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I don't think that's how it works. I think he wouldn't be able to regenerate ONLY after his WHOLE body is reduced beyond a level he can regenerate from. If just his arm gets dusted, he'd be more than capable of regenerating it as he is able to do so as long as his soul is in-tact regardless of the damage.
noisyPitta
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Ok but does Decay deal soul damage? Mahito's regen isn't just standard regen since it is based on his soul rather than his physical body composition. Since souls are not a tangible concept I don't see how Decay would do anything against it.
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Why would he be able to regenerate outside his regeneration limit?
It doesn't matter if his regen is dependent on the soul or not, at best he was only shown to regenerate from being exploded which is Low-High.
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Because if JUST his arm were turned to dust, he'd be able to regen the limb as his regen covers that. That isn't beyond his regen limit. It would be another thing if his ENTIRE body was turned to dust since he can't regen from his entire body being turned to dust
Regen is based on how much of your WHOLE body you can regen, not tiny parts of your body (Well, weak levels of regen are). If you have a regen that allows you to come back from being blown to thousands of pieces, then you'll be able to regenerate an arm regardless of the level of damage done to it (unless someone has regen negation) as you still have the rest of your body (or in Mahito's case, soul) to regen the arm from.
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Anyway, has anyone brought up Mahito's domain or his ability to create clones? The former is basically an instant-win button, the latter can be used to tactically land Idle Transfiguration on him.
noisyPitta
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JJK fights generally don't use DE when going up against other verses because domains with lethal sure-hit techniques are an instawin in a lot of scenarios. With DE Mahito low diffs.
The cloning would be interesting but I don't know if he would risk it. To make a clone he needs to remove part of his soul, which would make both weaker. Shigaraki has no way to damage his soul but if he somehow manages to incap/kill a clone, thats a % of Mahitos soul he doesnt have on him anymore. He only used it in shibuya because he felt safe in thinking that there were no sorcerers who could do soul damage to him.
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Well that's a silly reason not to use a technically fully available to him. Yeah, it's an insta-win option, but that's the purpose of it. It's like the pinnacle of Jujutsu that can turn the tide of nearly any battle.
That's not the only time he used it. He also used it against Nanami and Itadori when making an escape. Anyway, someone being able to damage a soul is a rare occurrence, and he was surprised Itadori was even able to affect his soul, someone he knew was a vessel of Sukuna. He's unlikely to think Shigiraki has a way to permanently dispatch of a clone. Not that him being weaker matters when he already has the physical disadvantage. He'd figure it's worth using a clone to get a touch in, from which he then wins as Shigiraki becomes transfigured.
noisyPitta
She/Her- 417
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Because if you are allowing DE, then theres no point in even having this discussion. Its like if we just say Mahito wins bc Shigaraki cant see cursed spirits. Realistically Mahito wins because of both these reasons but it kind of defeats the purpose of comparing two "I touch you with my hand and you die".
Fair point on the cloning. Should that be added to his profile? its not a named ability like some of his other moves but I feel like its significant enough to warrant a mention.
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Following lol
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It's not something we can restrict in a vs match though. In fun and games, sure. But in an actual match? We can't just restrict the natural abilities of a character to give the other one an advantage. Regardless of if it makes it an easy win in Mahito's favor.
It is on his profile. Listed as "duplication".
noisyPitta
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Fair. Fully agree that Mahito wins this
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As do I. I think he could pull it off without Domain Expansion. However, if he couldn't, he'd certainly resort to it if nothing else worked.
I think he'd catch onto Shigiraki's quirk quick, shapeshift his arms into wings to take flight, and then create a clone discretely to distract him, and then go in for the kill. He has shown to be very strategic in battle and in escape. So I think he'd find a way to transfigure Shigaraki reliably.
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Are we forgetting that Shigiraki decay is instant? And can cover distances up to Kilometers, while Mahito can only do tens of meters? What stops Shigiraki from playing range? Shigiraki up close is deadly there too, since if Shigiraki touches Mahito's face it would instant death while for Idle Config Shigiraki would have a few seconds before turning into an air head.
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Where did you get the idea that Shigiraki's idle transfiguration always takes a few seconds. There's several exceptions. Normal people with no notably strong soul are always transfigured instantly. Those who have a minor resistance due to their strong cursed energy have a slight resistance to the ability, such as Nanami, which Mahito explicitly noted.
Otherwise the very brief tap would've immediately transfigured Nanami.
Todo is noted as being built different, so him having time to react to it is expected. Though I think that was because the exposure time was intentionally shortened and Mahito planned to follow it up with a strike. Characters who have no resistance such as the random humans or a Sorcerer like Junpei are immediately transfigured if Mahito wills it:
Also worth noting that he's able to transfigure any part of the body through contact. So for it to start on Todo's arm seems to entail he didn't want to immediately transfigure his brain or any other part he could easily remove.
So saying it takes a few seconds is terribly dishonest. It's instantaneous if he wishes it to be.
To address your other concern:
I understand that. I never disagreed with that. The problem is that Mahito is strategic in his approach. Especially if he's observed how Shigaraki's technique works. Thus would plan around being touched. Likely creating a clone discretely to get the jump on him.
He can play range. Though it won't help him much if Mahito just flies around and avoids being hit at all cost. Shigaraki would eventually need to close the gap. Even if he chose to never do so, Mahito would plan a way to get in close. Such as seeking cover, creating a clone, and then have his real body sneak up from behind while he tries to dispatch of the clone from far away.
Mahito's ability just seems more versatile and his tactical planning in battle seems like it'd give him the win more times than not.
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Is there a reason Shigaraki doesn’t nuke Mahito out of existence instantly with a tens of kilometers wide Heavy Payload + Air Cannon as his first attack. Decay is 1 of his literal dozens of abilities, it’s not exactly his only option.
Also how strong even is Mahito, there is no calc or anything and the scaling for his profile is absolutely worthless and circular. Why is he even High 7-C.
Also how strong even is Mahito, there is no calc or anything and the scaling for his profile is absolutely worthless and circular. Why is he even High 7-C.
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“Seeking cover” from an attack that would delete entire portions of New York, which they are SBA inside? And how does he dodge it? Unless Mahito can teleport, he is dead the second Shigaraki points his hand at him and thinks “Air Cannon + Heavy Payload.”Where did you get the idea that Shigiraki's idle transfiguration always takes a few seconds. There's several exceptions. Normal people with no notably strong soul are always transfigured instantly. Those who have a minor resistance due to their strong cursed energy have a slight resistance to the ability, such as Nanami, which Mahito explicitly noted.
Otherwise the very brief tap would've immediately transfigured Nanami.
Todo is noted as being built different, so him having time to react to it is expected. Though I think that was because the exposure time was intentionally shortened and Mahito planned to follow it up with a strike. Characters who have no resistance such as the random humans or a Sorcerer like Junpei are immediately transfigured if Mahito wills it:
Also worth noting that he's able to transfigure any part of the body through contact. So for it to start on Todo's arm seems to entail he didn't want to immediately transfigure his brain or any other part he could easily remove.
So saying it takes a few seconds is terribly dishonest. It's instantaneous if he wishes it to be.
To address your other concern:
I understand that. I never disagreed with that. The problem is that Mahito is strategic in his approach. Especially if he's observed how Shigaraki's technique works. Thus would plan around being touched. Likely creating a clone discretely to get the jump on him.
He can play range. Though it won't help him much if Mahito just flies around and avoids being hit at all cost. Shigaraki would eventually need to close the gap. Even if he chose to never do so, Mahito would plan a way to get in close. Such as seeking cover, creating a clone, and then have his real body sneak up from behind while he tries to dispatch of the clone from far away.
Mahito's ability just seems more versatile and his tactical planning in battle seems like it'd give him the win more times than not.
Also Shigaraki has enhanced senses and other quirks like Search and Infrared Vision. Mahito is not sneaking up on him, Shigaraki would sense and see him through buildings.
noisyPitta
She/Her- 417
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Yep. I'm not sure why people are still debating this tbh.
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Idk JJK but if so then ye, fight can’t really happen
Bruh
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Yeah, battle seems really mismatch
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Ignoring the aforementioned comments regarding him being untouchable to non-sorcerers (as well as invisible), assuming you're referring to decay when you say "delete", he can fly far out of Shigiraki's range while avoiding being tagged at all. SBA dictates they start in a city, but arent restricted to ONLY that area. Not sure what heavy payload is, though air cannon shouldn't be able to put him down given he can regen from being blown to itty bitty pieces (I still think it should go beyond that, but that'll have to be for another time).
What does search do? I assume it is what would allow him to see or sense people brought buildings as infrared vision doesn't (well, not ordinarily anyways. Just lets you pick up on heat sigs. Though I doubt Mahito would have such a thing given him being a spirit comprised of negative emotions).
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Air Cannon is what I mean by delete.
As in he would use his Air Cannon and obliterate tens of kilometers of land, as that is the range of that attack. Heavy Payload is a damage modifier Quirk that amplifies it to that range.
Mahito is not dodging that attack in speed equal. He will instantly get obliterated to nothing by it since Shigaraki is hundreds of thousands of times stronger than him.
Search lets him see, track and know the weak points of anyone in range, up to 100 hundred people. It goes through any terrain and has tens of kilometers range as well, if not higher.
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Ah, my mistake.
Thanks for clarifying.
Is Shigiraki's attack speed for Air Cannon faster than his combat speed? If so, then yes, it can be evaded. Though not in the conventional sense of side-stepping it due to its stupid AOE. But by outpacing/out flying it until the energy disperses. From which he'd then be out of range unless Shigaraki decided to persue him. That is assuming that his attack speed = his combat speed. If it is faster than his combat speed, then yeah, it can't be evaded in any fashion. Anyway, I think we treat Mahito's regen as being good enough to recover from being blown to pieces and a puddle of blood? (He did verbatim state the former and recovered from blowing himself up). If that is the case, I don't think we accept an ap difference as being enough to negate regen (similar to how unless someone is shown to destroy things on an atomic level we don't assume they can bypass atomic level regen via an ap gap alone). I would think Shigaraki would need feats of being able to vaporize something if I had to guess. Could be wrong about how Mahito's regen is treated rn tho.
Ah, that is problematic. I'd assume he would realistically resort to retreating or trying to goad Shigaraki into close quarters (not exactly H2H, but close range. He does goad people on in-character, such as against Itadori in Shibuya arc, so it's not out of possibility).
Ill reply to whatever your reply is tomorrow since its hella late for me rn. Assuming the thread isnt closed or smth on account of Shigaraki not realistically having the ability to perceive Mahito, let alone interact with him.
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Air Cannon is portrayed as faster than Shigaraki’s normal speed, yes, to the point he uses it to propel himself faster. It can be reacted to if you have prior knowledge but it’s dodged to the side and never “outpaced.”
I’m not saying it would kill Mahito, or literally vaporize him. That’s called “exaggeration.” I’m saying it would harm him enough that he would need to regen huge portions of his body, likely from being nothing but blood stains scattered across the city. In which time Shigaraki flies over and pokes him with Decay or blasts him again then Decay. Like there’s really nothing Mahito can do back to him other than run away, which Shigaraki can catch up to easily.
Mahito talking to Shigaraki isn’t happening. Shigaraki is a bit preoccupied being a split personality being that’s constantly fighting for control of the body. Mahito doesn’t even know anything about Shigaraki or AFO to attempt to talk to them. Either personality would ignore or even twist his own words back on him since they have supernatural charisma.
“Low-High” regen doesn’t cover being decayed to dust btw, that would be Mid-High. So if Shigaraki even taps Mahito with decaying rubble he will be in danger of straight up dying.
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And yes, the match is irrelevant since Shigaraki can’t touch Mahito or see him.
If he could, however, he would horrendously kick his ass.
If he could, however, he would horrendously kick his ass.
