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Magnus the Red vs Arceus

Arceus lacks things like soul attacks (or similar abilities that can destroy the soul) which probably makes it difficult for him to put down low-godly regen beings permanently.

To that comes Magnus "at least" ranking. Wether one minds such things like "at least" and stats with likely and possibly at all in vs-threads is subjective. If one does Magnus has an advantage in AP.

Death manipulation helps as well.

His durability being unknown makes this a bit more uncertain, but the prior mentioned Regenerationn balances that out IMO.

Dimensional manipulation possibly helps as well, though I am not sure in which context this ability is given here.

All in all my vote goes to Magnus.
 
DontTalk said:
Arceus lacks things like soul attacks (or similar abilities that can destroy the soul) which probably makes it difficult for him to put down low-godly regen beings permanently.
To that comes Magnus "at least" ranking. Wether one minds such things like "at least" and stats with likely and possibly at all in vs-threads is subjective. If one does Magnus has an advantage in AP.

Death manipulation helps as well.

His durability being unknown makes this a bit more uncertain, but the prior mentioned Regenerationn balances that out IMO.

Dimensional manipulation possibly helps as well, though I am not sure in which context this ability is given here.

All in all my vote goes to Magnus.
Click to expand...
Arceus could still just become a ghost type and at the very least his Judgement move will become ghost attributed so that should count as a Soul Attack. Also, the lake trio are supposed to represent living concepts such as "spirit" and Arceus created them. It's likely that he could destroy souls via destroying the concept as a whole.

Doesnt Arceus have Stat Amping? If At Least makes Magnus a bit higher im sure the gap could be filled in

Death Manipulation works on Arceus how?

However im not sure who wins this fight.
 
Ignoring the concept manipulation question here, since we are already doing that in another thread.

Ghost attacks where shown very often and consistently to be tanked by all kinds of pokemon, to the point that we can be quite certain that they don't do soul damage. Arceus also doesn't have it listed on his profile.

Stat amping only goes so far. Not only is it doubtful, that with swordsdance he can destroy twice the amount of universes or something, but in order to get on the level that would justify "at least" he would have to go far beyond 6 attack boost that can grant via game mechanics (who really knows how relevant such a move is to someone like arceus either way). The difference between low end and high end 2-B is 10^497, way to much for stat amping to be an argument on that level.

How would death manipulation work? well as said I don't know why that character has it exactly, but one of the common applications would be to "without exception and without permitting resistance, end the life of any living being". In other words it affects him by simply killing him (it just works).
 
@DT. Lore wise, Pokemon like Haunter and Litwick have been known to steal souls. Destiny Bond's whole purpose is to have to opponent die with you.

Also, shouldn't reality warping take down low godly Regen?
 
True but almost all ghost types can naturally effect beings on a spiritual level, such as Gengar and Chandelure, just for being ghost types. Im guessing it can be applied to Arceus who is noted to likely have all abilities and powers of pokemon from the verse.

Right...but how much of a gap is there between Arceus and Magnus? Magnus is "At Least" 2-B while Arceus is a solid 2-B, but possibly higher. Both should strongly imply that, being likely stronger than their solid ratings, makes them rivals in AP. ]

And as for the rest, that sounds like an NLF to kill someone by just..."killing" them. Unless its done differently and im just interpreting it wrong.
 
Arceus, precognition should help with invisibility. Arceus being omnipresent will also help pinpoint Magnus' location. I'm not seeing how death manipulation is affecting an entity with type-8 immortality(not sure why it isn't on his profile) that was born from nothing.
 
In fact shouldnt Arceus have death manipulation as well? It has the concept of all attributes in the pokeverse that result in such a hax and it created Yveltal whos sole purpose is to steal the life force of all things, therefore killing them.
 
Ok, just a question. This battle is using Magnus in the Warp, correct? Does that mean the battle itself takes place in the Warp, or just assuming Magnus has all the powers he has in the Warp but in a different location?
 
Genji, when did Arceus have Type 8?

Anime, that sounds more like life force draining.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Ok, just a question. This battle is using Magnus in the Warp, correct? Does that mean the battle itself takes place in the Warp, or just assuming Magnus has all the powers he has in the Warp but in a different location?
Click to expand...
He has all the powers in the Warp but is outside of it. More of like a neutral space.
 
Arceus created the souls of all living beings in the pokemon verse, also his ghost plate negates all soul based attacks. So this is definitely no problem for Arceus.

Death manipulation won't be helpful as well. Should the Llama body be killed, which I doubt could happen since he has type 4 immortality, he can regenerate from the OS, which is everywhere and in everything (which Magnus doesn't know of course). Against the OS itself, well it is an immortal (again type 4) acausal abstract. That makes it nigh-impossible for death manip to have any effect, should Magnus somehow discover it's existence.

Invisibility is not really useful in a battle of 2-B reality warpers. Arceus precog, omniscience and omnipresence give him the knowledge he needs. Also the OS, being an omnipresent abstract, is also in a sense "invisible".

My vote for Arceus via hax/attack negation, conceptual manip, higher intelligence, the broken version of low-godly regen (which lets him regenerate from the multiverse itself), the ability to hit incorporeal enemies with all attacks and summoning of the creation trio.
 
I say Magnus, with really high difficulties.

Arceus got the intelligence advantage, at least temporarily (If Tzeentch starts helping, they'll be evened out), but Magnus got a wider ranger of techniques and more versatility.

Hax/technique negation? Magnus can do the same thing. Not only that, but he should be resistant to the same kind of technique thanks to Tzeentch's protection, and the fact that psykers can often block other psychic attacks, such as power negation.

Summoning weaker dudes is kinda useless when you get to Arceus' power level. If you are at Arceus' level, the Creation Trio is more than useless in a fight, barely cannon fodder, something that Magnus is.

Nonetheless, they're pretty even, and I'd go for an inconclusive fight wasn't it for Magnus greater range of abilities.

But I'd like to note that IDK the extent about some of Arceus' powers, so there's that.
 
@EliminatorVenom

While they are fodder to Arceus who created them, please notice that all three of the creation trio are highly haxxed 2-B abstract entities as well. Also Magnus would have to fight them alongside Arceus himself. It's not like Arceus would lean back after summoning them.

Magnus doesn't have hax negation or resistance to it on his profile, where does he get this from?

Idk how much Tzeentch is allowed to interfere with this matchup, i mean he's 1-C... don't know how his bond with Magnus works, but if he can actively support him this would be a stomp. The OP should clarify how far he can support him.

Arceus is very versatile as well. High level reality warping, concept creation/manipulation, causality manip, soul manip, stat amping, all of his pokemon attacks with 2-B in power and lots more.
 
@DaFritzi

Who are still way below Arceus. Either Magnus is around their tier, and be stomped by Arceus, or he's nearby Arceus' power level, which'd make him stomp the Creation Trio. Their hax was irrelevant to Arceus, and would still be irrelevant against someone who is just as powerful as Arceus and - on the very least - almost as haxxed.

He should have them, considering that it is a really common psychic power. Here are the links to a complete list, but if you want a direct answer, try to look for "Banishment" and "Dark Exccomunication".

Nah, it's not like he can just pop up and squash Arceus. It is more like he passively tries to augment Magnus' defense and resistances (He isn't immune, mind you, but abnormally resistant even for someone of his caliber) and, if inclined so, grant Magnus forbidden knowledge.

Yes, and Magnus can do the same. Considering his status as an Alpha-Plus level psyker, the fact that he is blessed by the God of Sorcery him/her/itself and that he has access to virtually all kinds of psychic powers, he should have most, if not all psychic powers. There are several lists about different psychic powers, and note that I only covered a part of them. There are still plenty of powers that I still haven't mentioned.
 
@EliminatorVenom

The reason they are below Arceus is because he created and holds control of the concepts they embody. This conceptual manip is one of the main advantages Arceus has over Magnus.

Arceus hax/attack negation does not affect Magnus himself, it's defensive hax. If Arceus gets hit by an attack that falls under a pokemon type (or what that type stands for: ghost=soul, psychic=mind/magic, etc.) that attack will have no effect.

"Dark Excomunication" severs the connection one has to a higher being. Arceus has no such connection, as such I doubt it will have effect on him. "Banishment" dissolves material bonds. Arceus true form is non-corporeal.

Also even with all those psychic powers, I don't see how Magnus will get around Arceus low-godly regen. It may only classify as low-godly but Arceus consciousness is basically everywhere and in everything in the multiverse (including the concept of space, time and antimatter).

Still, the help of Tzeentch makes Magnus a tough opponent.

@Cal What's your opinion on this matchup?
 
@DaFritzi

Are you saying the Creation Trio is as powerful as Arceus, but Arceus curbstomped them because he controls the concepts that they embody? Just asking, so I do not misinterpret your phrase.

Oh, I see.

Afaic, Banishment can still affect beings whose physical state is intangible (Although it is more a "phasing" style intangibility than true incorporeal nature, so there's that).

Well, it depends. If Arceus needs to retain his soul and mind to regenerate, it isn't an obstacle for Magnus. But if he truly regenerates from everything in the multiverse, well, maybe Dark Excomunication may sever his connections to them? I know said things are more of a conceptual/abstract nature, but Dark Excomunication does sever the ties that beings have to their respective conceptual gods.

But I honestly thought Magnus got conceptual manipulation. If he doesn't have it, then I must change my vote. I say that Arceus should win, although with extreme difficulties.
 
EliminatorVenom said:
But I honestly thought Magnus got conceptual manipulation. If he doesn't have it, then I must change my vote. I say that Arceus should win, although with extreme difficulties.
Click to expand...
In the Warp? He definitely does.
 
@Azzy He does? That should be added to his profile then.

@EliminatorVenom

The creation trio is powerful, they have potent hax and a 2-B rating, so I wouldn't dismiss them as cannon fodder. But you're not wrong, Arceus is above them in power and hax. Still imo the reason he no-selled their hax is because he controls their concepts.

The thing with dark excommunication is a complicated one. We currently see Arceus and his consciousness spread out anywhere as one being. It's not like a tie to a being above him. I can't say whether dark excommunication would work or not. I think rather not because Arceus and his consciousness are one being, but I'm not sure.

Since Magnus somehow has conceptual manip, the battle gets closer. My vote stays with Arceus, but there's definitely difficulty now.
 
@DaFtizi

Exactly. If Magnus is around Arceus' level, the Creation Trio isn't really a problem. Granted, they would provide something akin to a difficulty, but largely irrelevant on the large scheme of things.

Oh, I thought he had a more "conceptual" connection than a conscioussness-based one.

Hmmm, yeah, the fight is kinda harder now.
 
People are massively forgetting something, Magnus uses the powers of Greater/Higher beings in the Warp right?? Arceus in this term would also have the creation powers that Magnus would have in the warp since the warp is basically just a dreamland, Tzeech represents change and his opposite is Nurgle, Entropy. By this logic, Magnus shares the same Weakness to Entropy and static decay as does his master. Arceus without a second thought would destroy the Universe if they wanted to, And we all know this from his fight against all three of the Space-Time, Gravity/Anti-matter Deities have he ignored them for an extended amount of time, defeated all of them without a second though and only after Time Plot armour level BS had Ash and Co. finally find a way to calm him down, not destroy mind you. Arceus is above a 4-D God like Dialga, World ending Yveltol and life-binding Xernes. The embodiments of the Soul, MiSPIRIT, Aziel and Uxie. Emotions, Will and Knowledge are all there above Dialga, Palkia and maybe Giratina, though this could be debated, are all under Arceus' control, meaning the very soul is in Arceus hands and Magnus kinda needs that to do anything, The Plates of Creation negates EVERY attack as shown by a Screenshot up there ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Protect, Detect, Counter, Perish song, Destiny bond, Light Screen, Glass Screen, Mimic, Metronome and all these are outs and wins for Arceus to countering everything and if per say doesn't come under Pokemon Attacks (But we all know it will) would be countered by these. Magnus punches Arceus, Arceus uses counter. Magnus uses an instakill attack, Protect/Detect/deflect. Magnus does immense damage to Arceus, Synthesis, Rest, Roost, etc. Magnus wants to get Healed, Heal Block. Magnus is about to kill Arceus' physical form, Destiny bond. There are far too many ways Arceus would win here. And if Arceus wants to, they could destroy the realm of Souls, the Warp, since it is basically a Dreamworld/Spirit world which are all said to exist which means they've already been created by Arceus and they could destroy them too.
 
Because the Necrons have to use 20D technology to contain a shard of the Nightbringer. Complete Nightbringer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shard of the Nightbringer. And Chaos Gods, who are the embodiment of the Warp scale from the Nightbringer
 
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