Mafioso VS Deliquent

[XxZetsuxX]

So doesn't Dazai basically destroys Mike?

He still has wincons such as AP advantage and LS

Also dark impulse gets negated but he can activate it again if he isn't touching Dazai, Only to get cancelled again XD

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I don't understand how this helps in a hand to hand fight. The scans linked in his profile imply that his Analytical Prediction only works when he has prior knowledge.

Like i said he can predict machine guns trajetories who move way Way faster than Mikey

That only works when he knows the target. His analytical prediction only helps him when he knows the opponent for a long time like Chuuya's case.

?????

So you are telling me a if someone Dazai knows has a gun he can predict them???

Sorry buddy, It doesn't work like that

I don't understand how these help him in a hand to hand fight as well. Predicting a dominant limb with info analysis is nice but that doesn't mean you can dodge hits. Blocking hits would damage Dazai severly so that's out of option for him as well.

This will help him realize Mikey uses taekwondo or other abilities, Info analysis means you can know alot about the opponent just by looking at him, Which Dazai is good at

DI isn't a super power lol. It's a curse. Dazai can only nullify super powers and abilites as far as I know.

Curse is a super power, He can touch it with Power nullification + NPI

I didn't see a rule like that so i would like it if you can write the rule here.

???

If i didn't place Fear manip not restricted then of course he has it

I think I already answered that.

So did i, Above that is

I don't understand how he can just keep dodging Mikey's attacks especially when Mikey has Reactive Power. A dislocated joint would slow you down regardless of your pain resistence.

He moves just fine with tortures and beatings don't see what you mean here

I don't understand how this is a "No problem" point for Dazai. Predicting whole arcs is about Intelligence, not Combat.

It's for combat because all of these predictions are combat based and because of that he also has prep time in his profile

Not sure about that.

It counts since dark impulse isn't something normal

Curses are super powers

Even if it does, It still doesn't stop Mikey from grabbing Dazai with hid LS advantage, pinning him down and give him a beat down (more than 2.25 times AP difference) like he did aganist Kazutora and South.

Nothing stops Dazai from evading too as he is more of a evasive fighter more than anything else

 

[DekuGlazer]

Osamu Dazai VS Kanto Manji Mikey

Rules;

• Speed is equalised.
• Starting Distance: 10 Meters
• Location: Open Field
• No prep time, Both have no prior knowledge.
• Mikey is bloodlusted
• Mikey starts with Dark impulse
• Win via incap or death
• Dazai AP: 486 KiloJoule
• Rama AP: 1,093 Megajoules

Dazai's advantages:

• More skilled
• Ungodly smarter
• More versatile
• More experienced
• Analytical prediction and Information Analysis
• Better martial arts
• Better pain tolerance
• Better stamina

Mikey's advantages:

• Roughly 2,2x AP advantage
• Ginourmous LS advantage
• More haxed via Dark impulse
• Reactive power level that increases speed as the battle goes on
• Higher attack speed with Dark impulse

Dazai (2) - RoggerReggor, XxZetsuxX

Mikey (1) - Zefra3011

Batman kills both (Inconclusive) (0) -

Mikey wins. The martial arts point is not true because Dazai's martial arts history is very vague. Dazai does not have better martial arts, we dont even know Dazai's fighting background enough to just say he is a better fighter. Mikey is a prodigy and lives in a dojo and has shown more versatility using more martial arts styles.

Analytical Prediction and Information Analysis: Dazai's Analytical Prediction iaa he states has shown multiple times to not work on Mikey. Mikey's reactive power was a direct counter to Takemichi's analytical prediction which was a higher level of it than what Dazai has since Takemichi could actually see visions of Mikey's attacks before he even attacked.

Stamina: Mikey has better fighting stamina feats. Dazai's suicide attempts are not fighting stamina feats because neither of them have shown to benefit him in an actual fight. When Dazai was shot he didn't do anything notable after to say he can tank Sniper bullets and continue fighting, the same goes for the poison knife. Dazai laid down after being stabbed. Mikey tanked life threatening blows to the head repeatedly then shortly after used his head to headbutt to free himself. Which is a also a form of torture in itself.

Lifting Strength: Mikey could grab Dazai if he gets close and slam him after lifting him(which will also damage him like an attack) then be mounted, held down and beaten until he dies. He doesnt have the strength to free himself and as stated above he doesnt have supernatural willpower to outlast the ground and pound. Dazai's suicide attempts will not help him here either because he doesnt have any death resistance hax.

No Longer Human: No Longer Human conventionally should work on Dark Impulse and neutralize his Reactive Power but this is not a fight where Mikey has to rely on Dark Impulse because he has the AP advantage, LS Advantage, and martial arts advantage which no longer human doesnt apply to. I already mentioned why Dazai's analytical prediction is in effective because he knows nothing about Mikey and the above listed reasons for Dazai's Analytical prediction has never helped him in combat against someone he has never fought before.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Mikey wins. The martial arts point is not true because Dazai's martial arts history is very vague. Dazai does not have better martial arts, we dont even know Dazai's fighting background enough to just say he is a better fighter. Mikey is a prodigy and lives in a dojo and has shown more versatility using more martial arts styles.

You telling me beating a bunch of deliquent kids is better than demolishing entire groups of Mafia/Bandits full of guns, And skill users who all have super powers on a daily basis?

Are you kidding me? Are you seeing what you are typing right now?

Analytical Prediction and Information Analysis: Dazai's Analytical Prediction iaa he states has shown multiple times to not work on Mikey. Mikey's reactive power was a direct counter to Takemichi's analytical prediction which was a higher level of it than what Dazai has since Takemichi could actually see visions of Mikey's attacks before he even attacked.

Dazai predicts machine guns trajetories, Predicts whole scenarios, Knows alot about a target just by looking at them, Can predict movement and memorize timings, methods and some other things

Are you really telling me some weak precognition like Takemichi who can only view some seconds into the future is better than Dazai who predicts whole arcs and prepares counters for them??

Stamina: Mikey has better fighting stamina feats. Dazai's suicide attempts are not fighting stamina feats because neither of them have shown to benefit him in an actual fight. When Dazai was shot he didn't do anything notable after to say he can tank Sniper bullets and continue fighting, the same goes for the poison knife. Dazai laid down after being stabbed. Mikey tanked life threatening blows to the head repeatedly then shortly after used his head to headbutt to free himself. Which is a also a form of torture in itself.

I'm not gonna even argue here, I assume you are either trolling or just being biased towards Mikey here

Lifting Strength: Mikey could grab Dazai if he gets close and slam him after lifting him(which will also damage him like an attack) then be mounted, held down and beaten until he dies. He doesnt have the strength to free himself and as stated above he doesnt have supernatural willpower to outlast the ground and pound. Dazai's suicide attempts will not help him here either because he doesnt have any death resistance hax.

LS is a good thing going for Mikey but Alas Analytical prediction + Information analysis says otherwise

No Longer Human: No Longer Human conventionally should work on Dark Impulse and neutralize his Reactive Power but this is not a fight where Mikey has to rely on Dark Impulse because he has the AP advantage, LS Advantage, and martial arts advantage which no longer human doesnt apply to. I already mentioned why Dazai's analytical prediction is in effective because he knows nothing about Mikey and the above listed reasons for Dazai's Analytical prediction has never helped him in combat against someone he has never fought before.

He doesn't have martial arts advantage, This is not a debate also what i said above about analytical prediction and info analysis

He doesn't need to specifically know the person

 

[Dinozxd]

Also dark impulse gets negated but he can activate it again if he isn't touching Dazai, Only to get cancelled again XD

Not sure Mikey will just touch Dazai again like an idiot after getting canceled once.

Like i said he can predict machine guns trajetories who move way Way faster than Mikey

Analytical prediction is dodging bullets. His hand to hand analytical prediction only works when he has prior knowledge about his opponents. Dazai wouldn't state that he blocked Chuuya's hits thanks to knowing him for a long time if that wasn't the case.

So you are telling me a if someone Dazai knows has a gun he can predict them???

Sorry buddy, It doesn't work like that

What? I didn't mean it that way. I gave Chuuya's case as an example for his Analytical Prediction.

He moves just fine with tortures and beatings don't see what you mean here

It would still slow him down lol.

It's for combat because all of these predictions are combat based and because of that he also has prep time in his profile

Predicting entire arcs is Combat based? Not sure about that. He doesn't have prep time in this matchup too.

Nothing stops Dazai from evading too as he is more of a evasive fighter more than anything else

Sure but it's speed equalized and no prior knowledge on this matchup. Dazai evades people with speed and prior knowledge (prep time).

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Not sure Mikey will just touch Dazai again like an idiot after getting canceled once.

How will he fight then XD

Analytical prediction is dodging bullets.

Dodging bullets means he can also dodge punches/kicks '-'

His hand to hand analytical prediction only works when he has prior knowledge about his opponents. Dazai wouldn't state that he blocked Chuuya's hits thanks to knowing him for a long time if that wasn't the case.

It doesn't oh my god, See above

What? I didn't mean it that way. I gave Chuuya's case as an example for his Analytical Prediction.

Chuuya states he is predicting his moves which is something is good at seeing how he can dodge bullets with ease

It would still slow him down lol.

Fine

Predicting entire arcs is Combat based? Not sure about that. He doesn't have prep time in this matchup too.

Yeah they are, He prepare antidotes because he knows he will be poisoned, Prepares a city wide smoke screen in advance because he knows he will be in a gun fire etc etc

Based on mental calculations because he has no way of knowing what the enemy will do without hearing their plans in advance

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Let's not forget he can casually manipulate people

Even crazy people and killers are not safe from his manipulations

 

[Dinozxd]

You telling me beating a bunch of deliquent kids is better than demolishing entire groups of Mafia/Bandits full of guns, And skill users who all have super powers on a daily basis?

Doesn't count as a martial art feat sadly.

Dazai predicts machine guns trajetories, Predicts whole scenarios, Knows alot about a target just by looking at them, Can predict movement and memorize timings, methods and some other things

No Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction feats here.

Are you really telling me some weak precognition like Takemichi who can only view some seconds into the future is better than Dazai who predicts whole arcs and prepares counters for them??

Hand to Hand Combat wise, yes. Also, Precognition via Seeing the future is above any Analytical Prediction ability.

I'm not gonna even argue here, I assume you are either trolling or just being biased towards Mikey here

I agree with him btw. A stamina feat only counts if you can actually tank it.

He doesn't have martial arts advantage, This is not a debate also what i said above about analytical prediction and info analysis

I would like some better and solid proofs.

How will he fight then XD

Does NLH stun the opponent or something? Mikey doesn't need DI to fight you know?

Dodging bullets means he can also dodge punches/kicks '-'

Guessing the pattern of bullets isn't hand to hand analytical prediction because it's just dodging the opponent's aim. I would also like some scans about this to have a clear opinion about this.

Chuuya states he is predicting his moves which is something is good at seeing how he can dodge bullets with ease

No? He just says that Dazai read his movements and Dazai said that he could do that through knowing his opponent for a long time.

Yeah they are, He prepare antidotes because he knows he will be poisoned, Prepares a city wide smoke screen in advance because he knows he will be in a gun fire etc etc

These aren't Combat based feats lol.

Based on mental calculations because he has no way of knowing what the enemy will do without hearing their plans in advance

Deduction and Prediction feat. Not Combat.

Let's not forget he can casually manipulate people

Even crazy people and killers are not safe from his manipulations

It's pretty obvious that DI Mikey just doesn't think about his decisions. He casually attacks his own allies just cuz they are on his way lol. you can't manipulate a guy that doesn't think or feel anything.

 

[DekuGlazer]

You telling me beating a bunch of deliquent kids is better than demolishing entire groups of Mafia/Bandits full of guns, And skill users who all have super powers on a daily basis?

Are you kidding me? Are you seeing what you are typing right now?

The title of the gangs they are affiliated has nothing to do with skill level. Mikey was the #1 criminal in all of Japan by the final arc as a delinquent. He had major control over every major region of japan including Mafias and Yakuza. None of that has anything to do with his fighting history which is basically what this fight boils down to. Chuuya is not martial arts based and he easily beat Dazai and even stated "Did you think predicting my moves would be enough to defeat me simply because he was physically inferior to Chuuya. Chuuya is far inferior physically to Mikey which would make it on an even bigger scale than what Chuuya did to him even with him reading his movements.

Dazai predicts machine guns trajetories, Predicts whole scenarios, Knows alot about a target just by looking at them, Can predict movement and memorize timings, methods and some other things

Are you really telling me some weak precognition like Takemichi who can only view some seconds into the future is better than Dazai who predicts whole arcs and prepares counters for them??

Everything you listed here is based on guns and not hand to hand combat which i stated above his analytical prediction does not help him when he is physically inferior to an even an opponent he has known most of his life. He knows nothing about Mikey which means he can't predict anything because he has no hand to hand feats of predicting foes he hasnt had prior knowledge of.

I'm not gonna even argue here, I assume you are either trolling or just being biased towards Mikey here

There is no argument because Mikey has the LS advantage.

LS is a good thing going for Mikey but Alas Analytical prediction + Information analysis says otherwise

Countered this point already.

He doesn't have martial arts advantage, This is not a debate also what i said above about analytical prediction and info analysis

He doesn't need to specifically know the person

If its not a debate about martial arts then prove scans of his history because i can prove proof Mikey was a prodigy Martial artist since age 4 and in this fight he is age 18 which is 14 years of fighting history and has used several styles which are all listed on his page. All Dazai's profile says is "Martial Arts" with no proof he even uses a specific style or his hand to hand training history.


Also, add mine and dinos vote to mikeys name

 

[Dinozxd]

his analytical prediction does not help him when he is physically inferior to an even an opponent he has known most of his life. He knows nothing about Mikey which means he can't predict anything because he has no hand to hand feats of predicting foes he hasnt had prior knowledge of.

Forgot this lol. Dazai's Hand to Hand Analytical prediction is just useless aganist opponents superior to him.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Doesn't count as a martial art feat sadly.

Battle IQ then, This is not close

No Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction feats here.

There is, And Information analysis too

Hand to Hand Combat wise, yes. Also, Precognition via Seeing the future is above any Analytical Prediction ability.

Not when you see only a few seconds into the future whereas Dazai can see whole scenarios and possibilities and counter them

I agree with him btw. A stamina feat only counts if you can actually tank it.

You telling me this, This, This, This and this, Which Dazai scales to all of this, Is worse than tanking a metal pipe to the head?

Are you kidding me?

I would like some better and solid proofs.

Battle IQ then '-'

Does NLH stun the opponent or something? Mikey doesn't need DI to fight you know?

It doesn't i was solely refering to DI Mikey not normal Mikey XD

Guessing the pattern of bullets isn't hand to hand analytical prediction because it's just dodging the opponent's aim. I would also like some scans about this to have a clear opinion about this.

Man, Both you and Deku are heavily downplaying Dazai

No? He just says that Dazai read his movements and Dazai said that he could do that through knowing his opponent for a long time.

His analytical prediction doesn't work only on opponents he already knows, Once again, Stop downplaying him

These aren't Combat based feats lol.

Fine

Deduction and Prediction feat. Not Combat.

I know it's prediction, Analytical prediction to be more exact

It's pretty obvious that DI Mikey just doesn't think about his decisions. He casually attacks his own allies just cuz they are on his way lol. you can't manipulate a guy that doesn't think or feel anything.

Only when he is on his DI state not normal

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The title of the gangs they are affiliated has nothing to do with skill level. Mikey was the #1 criminal in all of Japan by the final arc as a delinquent. He had major control over every major region of japan including Mafias and Yakuza. None of that has anything to do with his fighting history which is basically what this fight boils down to. Chuuya is not martial arts based and he easily beat Dazai and even stated "Did you think predicting my moves would be enough to defeat me simply because he was physically inferior to Chuuya. Chuuya is far inferior physically to Mikey which would make it on an even bigger scale than what Chuuya did to him even with him reading his movements.

Analytical prediction not working on him means he has resistence to it because he can counter his predictions

What you talking about???

Everything you listed here is based on guns and not hand to hand combat which i stated above his analytical prediction does not help him when he is physically inferior to an even an opponent he has known most of his life. He knows nothing about Mikey which means he can't predict anything because he has no hand to hand feats of predicting foes he hasnt had prior knowledge of.

Guns are way faster than punches and kicks which Dazai predicts them at close range

Once again, Stop downplaying Dazai predictions

There is no argument because Mikey has the LS advantage.

What stamina has to do with LS?

Countered this point already.

Downplaying a character is not countering a point

If its not a debate about martial arts then prove scans of his history because i can prove proof Mikey was a prodigy Martial artist since age 4 and in this fight he is age 18 which is 14 years of fighting history and has used several styles which are all listed on his page. All Dazai's profile says is "Martial Arts" with no proof he even uses a specific style or his hand to hand training history.

Man, Dazai literally made entire groups of mafia filled with guns and are profissional fighters feel fear the moment they knew Dazai was going to kill them

Also, add mine and dinos vote to mikeys name

I forgot

Though you guys are severely downplaying Dazai here

 

[Dinozxd]

Battle IQ then, This is not close

We never said it wasn't a battle iq feat lol.

There is, And Information analysis too

"There is" is not a good point. These feats are all Analytical Prediction (not hand to hand) and info analysis feats. And just so you know, predicting gun shots isn't really better than predicting Mikey's kicks. You see where the gun is aimed at where Mikey's kicks come out of nowhere and you can't dodge them if you don't have Inhuman Kinetic Vision like Hanma, Analytical prediction that work on every opponent like Izana and future vision like Takemichi.

You telling me this, This, This, This and this, Which Dazai scales to all of this, Is worse than tanking a metal pipe to the head?

Are you kidding me?

The first one is just a durability feat and Mikey scales higher lol. The second one is literally listed as a dura feat too lol. I don't even understand the third scan. The fourth scan is just a character being hit and getting severly damaged lol. No one even tanks the fifth one. Overall, these feats (they are not even stamina feats lol) don't come close to Mikey beating 550 people without breaking a sweat and tanking metal pipes straight to his skull.

Battle IQ then '-'

So Mikey has better martial arts.

It doesn't i was solely refering to DI Mikey not normal Mikey XD

I also want to ask if Dazai's NLH works with direct contact or not. Does it work even if Mikey kicks him in the head or Dazai blocks a hit?

His analytical prediction doesn't work only on opponents he already knows, Once again, Stop downplaying him

Yet you couldn't present anything aganist this claim? I'm starting to lose interest in this thread.

I know it's prediction, Analytical prediction to be more exact

Not Hand To Hand Analytical Prediction though.

Only when he is on his DI state not normal

I don't want to debate about the Power Nullification thing as i don't know about NLH very much, but if Mikey's DI gets nullified, he can just go into it again. Not a problem at all.

 

[Dinozxd]

Also, I suggest you to stop telling us we are "Downplaying" a character we don't have interest in and focus on debating and presenting counter arguments aganist our arguments. Thanks.

 

[DekuGlazer]

Analytical prediction not working on him means he has resistence to it because he can counter his predictions

What you talking about???

No. Chuuya does not have resistance. His attacks were still able to be read by Dazai but it didn't matter because he overpowered him physically. I'm not sure why you keep ignoring the fact his analytical prediction has only consistently shown to work against people he has prior history to and even then it was shown to be limited when he simply can be overpowered while reading attacks. Mikey also as I stated before has history against people who can read his attacks. Takemichi is not the only person, Izana could read Mikey attacks as well and Mikey did the same as Chuuya. He overwhelmed him. Izana stated his limbs got tired, but physical tiredness does not slow down reaction time. The same thing would just happen to since Izana has comparable AP and Dazai doesn't, this would effect him more severely than it did Izana if Dazai continually tries to block Mikey kicks which he hasn't shown he can even do against opponents superior to him physically.

Guns are way faster than punches and kicks which Dazai predicts them at close range

Once again, Stop downplaying Dazai predictions

Asking for context and feats is not downplaying. Thats a random accusation when I am proving detailed description of my decision/vote. You cannot use aim dodging bullets as your main point for hand to hand combat dodging feats when he has shown it doesnt work as effectively in hand to hand as it does with guns. If it did you should be able to provide feats for him doing it against characters he has no prior knowledge of.

What stamina has to do with LS?

Stamina has to do with LS because as i stated before every time Dark Impulse Mikey has activated he has done the same ground and pound move where he hold his opponent down and beats them to death. Dazai does not have the stamina to overcome having his face beaten like Kazutora, South, and Takemichi who all either died or were put into a coma after Dark Impulse activated.

Downplaying a character is not countering a point

Once again I am not downplaying I simply took a look at Dazais profile and seen his LS is only Superman while Mikey's is Class 10. Chuuya overwhelmed Dazai while having his moves read the same way Izana read Mikey's moves and they both overwhelmed them. The LS argument is just one of the many ways mikey can kill Dazai because he doesn't have the physical strength, stamina hax, death manipulation or grappling history to stop Mikey when he uses ground and pound.

Man, Dazai literally made entire groups of mafia filled with guns and are profissional fighters feel fear the moment they knew Dazai was going to kill them

How does making someone feel fear translate to his martial arts history to prove he is a more skilled hand to hand fighter than Mikey? I asked for proof of his martial arts history since it is listed on his profile but doesn't have any scans to provide context of how deep his martial arts history is, which I am assuming isn't that deep. Scaring someone who knows you is nothing but Social Influencing. Which Mikey also has and they have no prior knowledge so that doesn't even matter for either character.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

We never said it wasn't a battle iq feat lol.

Kay

"There is" is not a good point. These feats are all Analytical Prediction (not hand to hand) and info analysis feats. And just so you know, predicting gun shots isn't really better than predicting Mikey's kicks. You see where the gun is aimed at where Mikey's kicks come out of nowhere and you can't dodge them if you don't have Inhuman Kinetic Vision like Hanma, Analytical prediction that work on every opponent like Izana and future vision like Takemichi.

I think you are being severely biased towards Mikey at this point, Theres no way

Dazai predicts attacks way faster than Mikey could ever hope for, Predicting Machine guns which are supersonic+ or even more yet you are saying just because it's not hand to hand prediction it's invalid

The first one is just a durability feat and Mikey scales higher lol. The second one is literally listed as a dura feat too lol. I don't even understand the third scan. The fourth scan is just a character being hit and getting severly damaged lol. No one even tanks the fifth one. Overall, these feats (they are not even stamina feats lol) don't come close to Mikey beating 550 people without breaking a sweat and tanking metal pipes straight to his skull.

Do tell me what part of torture and beating from the most violent Mafia gang you do not understand?

So Mikey has better martial arts.

Fine

I also want to ask if Dazai's NLH works with direct contact or not. Does it work even if Mikey kicks him in the head or Dazai blocks a hit?

Just touching him anywhere activates his power null

Yet you couldn't present anything aganist this claim? I'm starting to lose interest in this thread.

I already presented, You just keep downplaying him by saying it's invalid

Since when punches/kicks are faster than bullets? Care to tell me?

When no TR characters are faster than bullets?

Not Hand To Hand Analytical Prediction though.

Like i said, You are downplaying him

I don't want to debate about the Power Nullification thing as i don't know about NLH very much, but if Mikey's DI gets nullified, he can just go into it again. Not a problem at all.

What i said above about his power null

 

[XxZetsuxX]

No. Chuuya does not have resistance. His attacks were still able to be read by Dazai but it didn't matter because he overpowered him physically. I'm not sure why you keep ignoring the fact his analytical prediction has only consistently shown to work against people he has prior history to and even then it was shown to be limited when he simply can be overpowered while reading attacks. Mikey also as I stated before has history against people who can read his attacks. Takemichi is not the only person, Izana could read Mikey attacks as well and Mikey did the same as Chuuya. He overwhelmed him. Izana stated his limbs got tired, but physical tiredness does not slow down reaction time. The same thing would just happen to since Izana has comparable AP and Dazai doesn't, this would effect him more severely than it did Izana if Dazai continually tries to block Mikey kicks which he hasn't shown he can even do against opponents superior to him physically.

He has resistence to analytical prediction as he counters Dazai predictions not because he is stronger

Asking for context and feats is not downplaying. Thats a random accusation when I am proving detailed description of my decision/vote. You cannot use aim dodging bullets as your main point for hand to hand combat dodging feats when he has shown it doesnt work as effectively in hand to hand as it does with guns. If it did you should be able to provide feats for him doing it against characters he has no prior knowledge of.

Aim dodge isn't enough when you are at close range

Stamina has to do with LS because as i stated before every time Dark Impulse Mikey has activated he has done the same ground and pound move where he hold his opponent down and beats them to death. Dazai does not have the stamina to overcome having his face beaten like Kazutora, South, and Takemichi who all either died or were put into a coma after Dark Impulse activated.

Him being tortured and beated + being constantly being hit by stronger attacks means he has good stamina

Even better than Mikey, As being hit by a metal pipe doesn't come nowhere near as being tortured and beated

Once again I am not downplaying I simply took a look at Dazais profile and seen his LS is only Superman while Mikey's is Class 10. Chuuya overwhelmed Dazai while having his moves read the same way Izana read Mikey's moves and they both overwhelmed them. The LS argument is just one of the many ways mikey can kill Dazai because he doesn't have the physical strength, stamina hax, death manipulation or grappling history to stop Mikey when he uses ground and pound.

I'm not saying you are downgrading his LS, I'm saying his analytical prediction is what is being downgraded

How does making someone feel fear translate to his martial arts history to prove he is a more skilled hand to hand fighter than Mikey? I asked for proof of his martial arts history since it is listed on his profile but doesn't have any scans to provide context of how deep his martial arts history is, which I am assuming isn't that deep. Scaring someone who knows you is nothing but Social Influencing. Which Mikey also has and they have no prior knowledge so that doesn't even matter for either character.

The fact he is knowned as one of the most dangerous executives in the mafia who regularly thrashed a high tier such as Akutagawa, Obliterated entire mafia/bandit gangs so much that they tremble in fear the moment they know Dazai is coming for them

 

[Dinozxd]

Dazai predicts attacks way faster than Mikey could ever hope for, Predicting Machine guns which are supersonic+ or even more yet you are saying just because it's not hand to hand prediction it's invalid

Predicting and aim dodging attacks don't scale to speed and yes it makes them invalid especially when Dazai gets beaten by a guy physically stronger than him (Mikey scales higher than Chuuya) in a hand to hand combat situation even though he could read his moves.

Do tell me what part of torture and beating from the most violent Mafia gang you do not understand?

The feats you linked didn't have something like that. Also, I don't think i have to mention how characters who Mikey upscales from stamina wise can beat 50 people with a fatal stab wound, catch a guy with one hand from a fall even though he was shot 5 times, casually keep fighting with his vision being blurry and his ears not being able to hear, tank a car explosion and being able to move (this is a durability feat but you listed some explosion feats as stamina feats so I just wanted to remind you that TR has explosion feats too). It seems like you're the one "downplaying" here.

Just touching him anywhere activates his power null

I'm assuming you meant Dazai touching Mikey activates power null and not Mikey coming in contact with Dazai. So how does Dazai touching Mikey effect this battle? It's not like Mikey will let Dazai touch him.

I already presented, You just keep downplaying him by saying it's invalid

Stop stonewalling the thread by telling me i'm "downplaying". This is not a counter argument.

Since when punches/kicks are faster than bullets? Care to tell me?

It's not about being faster. You can easily see where a shooter is aiming at but you can't guess where Mikey's gonna kick if you don't have good Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction like Dazai who loses to characters physically stronger than him even though he can predict their movements.

When no TR characters are faster than bullets?

Irrelevant topic. This is a speed equalized matchup.

Like i said, You are downplaying him

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Predicting and aim dodging attacks don't scale to speed and yes it makes them invalid especially when Dazai gets beaten by a guy physically stronger than him (Mikey scales higher than Chuuya) in a hand to hand combat situation even though he could read his moves.

The feats you linked didn't have something like that. Also, I don't think i have to mention how characters who Mikey upscales from stamina wise can beat 50 people with a fatal stab wound, catch a guy with one hand from a fall even though he was shot 5 times, casually keep fighting with his vision being blurry and his ears not being able to hear, tank a car explosion and being able to move (this is a durability feat but you listed some explosion feats as stamina feats so I just wanted to remind you that TR has explosion feats too). It seems like you're the one "downplaying" here.

Stop stonewalling the thread by telling me i'm "downplaying". This is not a counter argument.

It's not about being faster. You can easily see where a shooter is aiming at but you can't guess where Mikey's gonna kick if you don't have good Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction like Dazai who loses to characters physically stronger than him even though he can predict their movements.

Irrelevant topic. This is a speed equalized matchup.

Man, I give up, We are not going anywhere when you clearly ignore everything i say

I'm assuming you meant Dazai touching Mikey activates power null and not Mikey coming in contact with Dazai.

If Mikey touches anywhere, Dazai power nulls and vice versa you understood it right

So how does Dazai touching Mikey effect this battle? It's not like Mikey will let Dazai touch him.

He will just nullify his DI nothing else

 

[TheDarkTriadz]

Mikey destroys, I see no way for Dazai to win this comfortably even after reading such reasoning

 

[Dinozxd]

We are not going anywhere when you clearly ignore everything i say

I would prefer a "You countered my arguments well so let's drop this topic" but alright. Thanks anyway.

If Mikey touches anywhere, Dazai power nulls and vice versa you understood it right

No I said that it only works when only Dazai touches Mikey on purpose, not them getting in contact.

 

[DekuGlazer]

He has resistence to analytical prediction as he counters Dazai predictions not because he is stronger

Where did Dazai state this was the case? All the manga and anime showed was was dazai dodge a few punches, grab Chuuya when get kicked into the wall before he was blitzed and hit multiple times again and hit again. You cannot make make the case for chuuya having resistance(it isn't even on his profile) while ignoring the fact Mikey has done the same thing to his opponent. They either both have resistance at at that point or neither do. Thats the only logical way to make this point because

Aim dodge isn't enough when you are at close range

You simply just dont understand that bullet dodging feats have nothing to do with hand to hand combat dodging when he has shown to be less effective using it.

Him being tortured and beated + being constantly being hit by stronger attacks means he has good stamina

Even better than Mikey, As being hit by a metal pipe doesn't come nowhere near as being tortured and beated

He was hit by people who scale to his own durability. Mikey scales 2.2x above anything he has been hit with according to the AP listed in the thread. Meaning you can't compare the pain tolerance he showed against Chuuya to what he will face against Mikey. Every kick does not have the same force and Mikey's kick is 2x harder than Chuuyas which means the pain will be worse. Dazai does not have supernatural willpower for added resistance against the higher AP Mikey has so he will be beaten to death with ground and pound(explanation below)

I'm not saying you are downgrading his LS, I'm saying his analytical prediction is what is being downgraded

You are ignoring all of my points to keep using strawman arguments saying he is being downplayed when I am making point after point that you arent even replying to. My replies are far longer than yours and this debate is becoming never ending. I already made counter arguments to the analytical prediction point multiple times even in this reply. My LS point was Mikey's LS is far higher if Dazai grabs him like he did Chuuya Mikey can grab him back then use his significant LS advantage to pick up and slam him to the ground then proceed to do what he did to Kazutora, South and Takemichi.

The fact he is knowned as one of the most dangerous executives in the mafia who regularly thrashed a high tier such as Akutagawa, Obliterated entire mafia/bandit gangs so much that they tremble in fear the moment they know Dazai is coming for them

Thats does not provide context of his martial arts history to say he is more skilled hand to hand. Feeling fear ≠ Skill. I've stated this already as well. Mikey is the #1 criminal in Japan by the time he makes Kanto Manji Gang, and he has statements of his martial arts history with this. Which proves he is skilled. Dazai does not so to say he is more skilled is actually a downplay of Mikey's skills when he has more detailed information and dazai has nothing besides the ability listed on his profile while the other abilities have scans with them.

 

[RoggerReggor]

So doesn't Dazai basically destroys Mike?

Yes.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Meaning you can't compare the pain tolerance he showed against Chuuya to what he will face against Mikey.

The reason why we have Dazai's stats as "at least" is because he could easily damage Akutagawa who could go on against a 7-C character, albeit getting pretty much damaged, but still, he wasn't killed, so in case you are wondering, Mikey's strikes might just be useless lol.

 

[Zefra3011]

Yes.

Dazai pfp JK

 

[RoggerReggor]

Dazai

Better waifu than Power, period.

Where did Dazai state this was the case? All the manga and anime showed was was dazai dodge a few punches, grab Chuuya when get kicked into the wall before he was blitzed and hit multiple times again and hit again.

Bro needs to either read the entire manga or watch the anime again lol.

You simply just dont understand that bullet dodging feats have nothing to do with hand to hand combat dodging when he has shown to be less effective using it.

Many of Dazai's "bullet dodging" is just aim dodging at proximity, I believe if he can predict bullet trajectories in a rush battle, then a H2H shouldn't be a debate lol.

He was hit by people who scale to his own durability.

No, Dazai could significantly damage Akutagawa who took 7-C strikes while he was in his base from Chuuya or Shibusawa iirc, albeit getting highly damaged but not dying.

You are ignoring all of my points to keep using strawman arguments saying he is being downplayed when I am making point after point that you arent even replying to. My replies are far longer than yours and this debate is becoming never ending. I already made counter arguments to the analytical prediction point multiple times even in this reply. My LS point was Mikey's LS is far higher if Dazai grabs him like he did Chuuya Mikey can grab him back then use his significant LS advantage to pick up and slam him to the ground then proceed to do what he did to Kazutora, South and Takemichi.

All Mikey can do is disarticulate Dazai, Mikey wouldn't give the acceleration at the moment, but will have to provide it slower which Dazai should be able to overpower easily. And against South, South was a mindless fighter compared to Dazai. Dazai has at least a 1000 times better battle IQ than Mikey with significant amount of experience, his hax is strictly too much for Mikey and he can even nullify Gojo's infinity with that.

Thats does not provide context of his martial arts history to say he is more skilled hand to hand. Feeling fear ≠ Skill. I've stated this already as well. Mikey is the #1 criminal in Japan by the time he makes Kanto Manji Gang, and he has statements of his martial arts history with this. Which proves he is skilled. Dazai does not so to say he is more skilled is actually a downplay of Mikey's skills when he has more detailed information and dazai has nothing besides the ability listed on his profile while the other abilities have scans with them.

So your point is how Mikey is more skilled than Dazai? The best one I heard so far, got a genuine laugh.

 

[Zefra3011]

Better waifu than Power, period.

I see, if you really want to be reported I'm willing to handle it.

Jokes aside, @XxZetsuxX I changed my vote to Dazai earlier, I'm still counted for Mikey in the OP.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I see, if you really want to be reported I'm willing to handle it.

Jokes aside, @XxZetsuxX I changed my vote to Dazai earlier, I'm still counted for Mikey.

Ah, Sorry i didn't notice XD

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I was too Stressed you have no idea to notice anything else because of this "VS Thread" who just so happens to be TR

 

[Dinozxd]

Many of Dazai's "bullet dodging" is just aim dodging at proximity, I believe if he can predict bullet trajectories in a rush battle, then a H2H shouldn't be a debate lol.

Already explained why predicting bullet trajectories isn't hand to hand analytical prediction and how the hell is he getting beaten by Chuuya just because he scales higher than himself physically even though he could read his movements?

No, Dazai could significantly damage Akutagawa who took 7-C strikes while he was in his base from Chuuya or Shibusawa iirc, albeit getting highly damaged but not dying.

Dazai doesn't have 7-C on his profile but if he actually does have Town Lvl Durability, this thread is just pointless cuz it's an AP stomp lol.

provide it slower which Dazai should be able to overpower easily.

Not sure about the overpowering part given there is a big LS and AP difference between Dazai and Mikey.

So your point is how Mikey is more skilled than Dazai? The best one I heard so far, got a genuine laugh.

Martial arts wise. We are not arguing about Battle iq here.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Voting Mikey for LS and AP advantage.

 

[DekuGlazer]

Better waifu than Power, period.

Zefra can't change his vote without a valid reasoning, especially when I've made several points that were never validly countered by anyone. Nobody ever made counter arguments to my main points and somehow votes are being changed. Thats invalid voting.

Bro needs to either read the entire manga or watch the anime again lol.

Telling me to read or watch the anime does not make your point. Everytime i make a great point all you or the Zetsu guy do is strawman every argument. I've watched the manga and read the anime. If you disagree with my points it should be easy provide scans of him predicting HAND TO HAND COMBAT of someone he never met since I am making the case it doesnt work that way.

Many of Dazai's "bullet dodging" is just aim dodging at proximity, I believe if he can predict bullet trajectories in a rush battle, then a H2H shouldn't be a debate lol.

"I believe" is not canon proof. You are trying to make aim prediction to apply to hand to hand fighting when that isn't how it works at all, again. His hand to hand fighting analytical prediction has shown to NOT be as effective even against people he has prior knowledge of and knows everything about.

No, Dazai could significantly damage Akutagawa who took 7-C strikes while he was in his base from Chuuya or Shibusawa iirc, albeit getting highly damaged but not dying.

Chuuya's physical durability is scaled to "At least 9-B" so none of this matters, unless you are trying to invalidate the entire thread by making the point he is actually 7C tier rather than 9B.

All Mikey can do is disarticulate Dazai, Mikey wouldn't give the acceleration at the moment, but will have to provide it slower which Dazai should be able to overpower easily. And against South, South was a mindless fighter compared to Dazai. Dazai has at least a 1000 times better battle IQ than Mikey with significant amount of experience, his hax is strictly too much for Mikey and he can even nullify Gojo's infinity with that.

No. Mikey lifted and slammed Takemichi during the Manila scene before mounting him like he does during ground and pound. Mikey. Dazai and overpower should never be said together in this fight because he is almost 20x weaker than Mikey so anything with "overpower" is downplaying especially when he clearly has the AP, and LS advantage. Also South being mindless and Dazai having a better IQ wont do anything for him when he physically cant do anything to do much damage nor stop Mikey from pursuing and nonstop attack him. If your reasoning is analytical prediction it should be proven against people Dazai has no knowledge of since his only feat of it he was overwhelmed by someone physically stronger which applies to Mikey.

So your point is how Mikey is more skilled than Dazai? The best one I heard so far, got a genuine laugh.

I don't care if you laugh. Thats a red herring I am still asking you to provide me proof of his martial arts history to prove his skill level. First zetsu calls it bias then you laugh, even though NEITHER of you have provides context of his skill level. Being feared ≠ Skill. Thinking that is how martial arts works is whats actually funny

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Zefra can't change his vote without a valid reasoning, especially when I've made several points that were never validly countered by anyone. Nobody ever made counter arguments to my main points and somehow votes are being changed. Thats invalid voting.

Sure he can this ain't a crt. Points don't need to be countered. If someone feels like someone wins they say it.As long as a single post contains a way to win then a fra suffices.

 

[Dinozxd]

Can't believe how much stonewalling and straw manning is going on in this thread. This is making me cringe tbh.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Those terms do not apply here. People can read both and vote.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Already explained why predicting bullet trajectories isn't hand to hand analytical prediction and how the hell is he getting beaten by Chuuya just because he scales higher than himself physically even though he could read his movements?

Predicting bullet trajectories in a rush battle is pretty much analytical prediction. Either you cannot imagine it or you are just not applying it to application here. And precisely, Dazai beats Chuuya through his battle IQ unless he gets speedstomped which doesn't work like that.

Dazai doesn't have 7-C on his profile but if he actually does have Town Lvl Durability, this thread is just pointless cuz it's an AP stomp lol.

AP stomps require 7.5x higher AP. Nah I am just saying that Dazai actually is much higher than even the stuff on his profile currently.

Not sure about the overpowering part given there is a big LS and AP difference between Dazai and Mikey.

Not actually lol. LS advantages only work when Mikey gets a hold of Dazai, which as we know wouldn't happen unless Dazai is an idiot which he isn't. AP difference is not as big as you say, it still is much lesser than the required to oneshot. And oh now, Dazai can harm Mikey as well. It will take some amount of time for Dazai to fully read Mikey, and Dazai has never gone serious. If he does, then this is over lol.

Martial arts wise. We are not arguing about Battle iq here.

How does martial arts which is a mere fighting style even give advantage here? LOL. Secondly, all Mikey has is some statements from his grandpa about his martial arts, we don't know if Mikey even polished them to their finest. Dazai was in port mafia for a significantly high amount of time, was involved in much more criminal stuff than Mikey ever did, and has put it more into use.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Zefra can't change his vote without a valid reasoning, especially when I've made several points that were never validly countered by anyone. Nobody ever made counter arguments to my main points and somehow votes are being changed. Thats invalid voting.

Bro stop kidding now. Why do you feel like your reasons suffice or your reasons weren't correctly countered? LOL. I am not going to give conclusions to everything but Zetsu pretty much settled you.

Telling me to read or watch the anime does not make your point. Everytime i make a great point all you or the Zetsu guy do is strawman every argument. I've watched the manga and read the anime. If you disagree with my points it should be easy provide scans of him predicting HAND TO HAND COMBAT of someone he never met since I am making the case it doesnt work that way.

Nah I said it because you thought that "Dazai never showed ability to predict his opponents without memorizing their habits" which is blatantly false. Dazai's profile states that he has a keen adaptability in which he basically adapts to a character's attack pattern, nothing like he cannot predict them without any muscle memory on them. And come on, why do I need to provide scans to prove something "made up" false when it's already on their profiles?

"I believe" is not canon proof. You are trying to make aim prediction to apply to hand to hand fighting when that isn't how it works at all, again. His hand to hand fighting analytical prediction has shown to NOT be as effective even against people he has prior knowledge of and knows everything about.

Cut off "I believe". In a rush battle, the opponent hands move at a very great speed. It is at a proximity. I don't think I need to explain this unless you cannot really imagine him putting this into a H2H.

Chuuya's physical durability is scaled to "At least 9-B" so none of this matters, unless you are trying to invalidate the entire thread by making the point he is actually 7C tier rather than 9B.

This is not "invalidating the thread", many people in various threads need to state this stuff because you know, character's AP and durability are not always calculated to their best.

No. Mikey lifted and slammed Takemichi during the Manila scene before mounting him like he does during ground and pound. Mikey. Dazai and overpower should never be said together in this fight because he is almost 20x weaker than Mikey so anything with "overpower" is downplaying especially when he clearly has the AP, and LS advantage. Also South being mindless and Dazai having a better IQ wont do anything for him when he physically cant do anything to do much damage nor stop Mikey from pursuing and nonstop attack him. If your reasoning is analytical prediction it should be proven against people Dazai has no knowledge of since his only feat of it he was overwhelmed by someone physically stronger which applies to Mikey.

My bro, Mikey is significantly faster than Takemichi. Takemichi is of the similar height as Mikey, so it was of course. Dazai is a 6 feet guy who is much taller than Mikey. We saw him clearly trying to disarticulate South so I am saying that he would struggle against a tall guy.
And no, Mikey is not much faster than Dazai here, they are literally equals. So, anything you say doesn't make sense when Dazai can actually just get rid of Mikey when he's trying to disarticulate him. LS doesn't really matter here much unless they start Armwrestling all of a sudden.

I don't care if you laugh. Thats a red herring I am still asking you to provide me proof of his martial arts history to prove his skill level. First zetsu calls it bias then you laugh, even though NEITHER of you have provides context of his skill level. Being feared ≠ Skill. Thinking that is how martial arts works is whats actually funny

Ok, I will.

• Predicted which hand the shooter was using by just looking at the mark on his chin.
• Has a better experience of fighting in rush than Mikey with opponents who are as fast as him or are much faster than him. Iirc, Mikey has no experience fighting the guys who are as fast as him. The only time we see him doing is against Izana and he really got his body served in that.
• Can adapt to a fighter's moves. Against Chuuya he could predict almost all of his moves because they had been partners for years.

 

[Dinozxd]

Predicting bullet trajectories in a rush battle is pretty much analytical prediction.

I explained how that's not Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction. Dazai can predict the trajectories of bullets but can't predict Chuuya's movements without prep time as he states.

Dazai beats Chuuya through his battle IQ unless he gets speedstomped which doesn't work like that.

He gets AP stomped as well from what I have seen and him getting speed stomped literally means he can't counter Mikey's Reactive Power.

AP stomps require 7.5x higher AP.

The difference between 1 MJ and Baseline Town Level AP is much more than that.

Nah I am just saying that Dazai actually is much higher than even the stuff on his profile currently.

Irrelevant topic.

Not actually lol. LS advantages only work when Mikey gets a hold of Dazai, which as we know wouldn't happen unless Dazai is an idiot which he isn't.

I only answered the overpowering part. I also want to have more proof on how Mikey can't grab Dazai as his Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction only works when he knows the opponent and he doesn't know Mikey here.

AP difference is not as big as you say, it still is much lesser than the required to oneshot.

Yes but it doesn't change the fact that there is an AP difference. I also think Mikey should scale to 1,277 MJ as he performed the denting car hood feat at the same kick as his denting car grill feat. He even has to upscale from this AP by 1.2x cuz there was a multiplier accepted in an old thread about Mikey performing this feat with bad balance if i remember correctly. He also performed the feat at base which should just scale his AP higher. There is at least 3-4 times AP difference between Mikey and Dazai.

How does martial arts which is a mere fighting style even give advantage here?

The OP gave martial art advantage to Dazai's favor so that's why we debated about that. He even accepted it after lol.

Secondly, all Mikey has is some statements from his grandpa about his martial arts, we don't know if Mikey even polished them to their finest.

being a genius martial artist at a young age literally means he polished his martial art skills to his finest. Don't know what you're trying to say here.

Dazai was in port mafia for a significantly high amount of time, was involved in much more criminal stuff than Mikey ever did, and has put it more into use.

And these are supposed to be martial art knowledge feats? Come on now.

 

[Dinozxd]

Iirc, Mikey has no experience fighting the guys who are as fast as him. The only time we see him doing is against Izana and he really got his body served in that.

I'm gonna leave other things to Deku but I'm just gonna answer this. Mikey pretty much stated that he would not let Izana hit him if he doesn't want to get hit so that's that.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I explained how that's not Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction. Dazai can predict the trajectories of bullets but can't predict Chuuya's movements without prep time as he states.

It is. Imagine it like this: You are in a rush battle, you are in a gun fight at a proximity. Whenever shooter does stuff, you are dead, so predicting that counts as analytical prediction as well. In fact, predicting moves is a much easier thing than predicting any bullet. I don't myself know why was I even arguing this.

He gets AP stomped as well from what I have seen and him getting speed stomped literally means he can't counter Mikey's Reactive Power.

"which doesn't work like that" is what you focus on bud, not the "speedstomped" part. And by speedstomped, I don't recall when Dazai actually got speedstomped lol.

The difference between 1 MJ and Baseline Town Level AP is much more than that.

Oh, you are saying that. I just said it because you guys were pausing Dazai's durability at 486 kJ which is not like that hehe.

Irrelevant topic.

It isn't irrelevant. The part of the reason why Yoriichi won against Gon was this exactly lol.

I only answered the overpowering part. I also want to have more proof on how Mikey can't grab Dazai as his Hand to Hand Analytical Prediction only works when he knows the opponent and he doesn't know Mikey here.

His analytical prediction for Chuuya requires some prep because come on, Chuuya is basically much faster than Dazai, while Mikey isn't.

Yes but it doesn't change the fact that there is an AP difference. I also think Mikey should scale to 1,277 MJ as he performed the denting car hood feat at the same kick as his denting car grill feat.

This feat... I am not going to say anything F.

He even has to upscale from this AP by 1.2x cuz there was a multiplier accepted in an old thread about Mikey performing this feat with bad balance if i remember correctly. He also performed the feat at base which should just scale his AP higher. There is at least 3-4 times AP difference between Mikey and Dazai.

Dazai should be at tier 7 or 8 durability according to what I said above, but ok, that's good to hear that Mikey actually has a pinky finger of chance lol.

The OP gave martial art advantage to Dazai's favor so that's why we debated about that. He even accepted it after lol.

Dazai has martial arts advantage upon his continuous experience and him learning from just seeing various people, "as he stated with Chuuya", lol.

being a genius martial artist at a young age literally means he polished his martial art skills to his finest. Don't know what you're trying to say here.

Doesn't mean that. You have read COTE so you would know that Manabu is confirmed to have dans above black belt in both Karate and Aikido, something exact like that is exactly what I want for his martial arts qualification.

And these are supposed to be martial art knowledge feats? Come on now.

Nah bro, apparently you didn't think beyond it and I am scared I didn't explain it better, but yeah, Dazai learns from seeing.