Madoka's immortality

[Kaltias]

Madoka right now has type 8 based on the concept of destroying witches, which she embodies. According to this, a character who embodies the concept that it relies on shouldn't have type 8, but Mid-Godly regen.

So basically, removal of the type 8 adding Mid-Godly regen.

Thoughts?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Did she even regenerate from the concept being destroyed though?

Otherwise that's just Abstract Existence

 

[Kaltias]

Mami stated that Madoka would remain firmly implanted in the universe as the concept of destroying witches itself.

Also doesn't AE automatically include Mid-Godly?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No? That'd be like giving anyone with Non-Corporeality Low/Mid-Godly regen.

 

[Kaltias]

A non-corporeal who can grow a body to manifest as long as the non-corporeal part exists is indeed a Low/Mid-Godly regenerator tho.

 

[Kaltias]

Also, it isn't regenerating after the concept is destroyed in her case, but as long as it isn't (basically type 8 reliant on her own concept)

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Doesn't it say on her and Homura's profile that they can't be killed by having their bodies destroyed?

To me that implies some degree of Regenerationn or something.

 

[Kaltias]

Homura is weird, we don't know how it works for her. We know that destroying her body without destroying her Soul Gem doesn't kill her because it doesn't kill any magical girl, and that destroying her Soul Gem doesn't kill her either because she broke it herself without any consequence.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Madoka is indeed a weird case...The "concept" she relied on is technically herself. It feels like she doesn't even have type 8 since the begin with.

 

[Kaltias]

So that's a "no type 8, yes mid-godly" or?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I...honestly have no idea. But perhaps she is just abstract existence like STLK pointed out because she doesn't have physical body.

 

[Kaltias]

She has physical manifestations tho.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Yeah, but it's only more acts like an avatar so she can "interract" with the lower D while her "true-self" is on another plane of existence.

 

[Kaltias]

That's textbook Low-Godly regen though. Except that it's a concept instead of her consciousness so it's Mid-Godly

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Hm...That makes sense. I mean Madoka basically have been erased from past, present and future after making her wish. And yet, she was able to create a "body" and ascended to a higher plane of existence.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that she should keep immortality type 8, as she fulfills the requirement, but that we need proof of Mid-Godly Regenerationn.

 

[Kaltias]

But DT said that type 8 reliant on the concept that you embody isn't type 8 to begin with because it's Mid-Godly instead.

It's because if you embody the reliant concept it works as "I can come back as long as my concept exists" instead of "I can come back as long as a different concept from my own exists".

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm okay with whatever is decided, however, it should be noted that Type 8 and Mid-Godly regen are essentially the same here, only Kal is arguing that regenerating from your own concept is not Type 8.

 

[Kaltias]

^ Pretty much. It's a change in semantic really. It basically goes from "will exist as long as the concept of destroying witches exists" to "will exist as long as the concept of destroying witches, which she embodies, exists"

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am extremely reluctant to make any changes in our system that would require widespread hard-to-organise revisions across many different franchises.

According to our current standards, being reliant on a concept qualifies for type 8 immortality, whereas Mid-Godly Regenerationn can be a consequence, but should preferably be proven before we add it.

 

[Kaltias]

We actually already do that, Star Wars top tiers for example.

The thing is that the reliant concept is Madoka herself. So her type 8 as it stands right now is "Will keep existing as long as her own concept does". But this simply isn't type 8 (which is why she would lose it). It's a character regenerating from its conceptual self, which is Mid-Godly.

A character who can come back as long as its soul exists doesn't have type 8 reliant on its soul, it has Low-Godly Regenerationn. Same here, only the concept instead of the soul.

 

[Antvasima]

Aha, so she actually is the concept, rather than being dependent on it. Then it seems like you are likely correct.

 

[Kaltias]

Pretty much. Madoka herself is "nothing more than a concept" "firmly implanted in the universe as the concept of destroying witches itself"

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

If Ant gives an okay to this, I as well agree with Mid-Godly for Madoka. But does that mean we're gonna also add Abstract Existence to her profile as well? I read the AE page and it seems Madoka has fulfill the requirement to be an Abstract Existence.

Also, does it scale to Homura too?

 

[Kaltias]

How Madoka doesn't have abstract existence already is beyond me (she actually qualified with the type 8 as well). She should have it, yes.

Nope.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

So, is this an upgrade or just an adjuatment to Madoka?

Dammit, I expects too much…

 

[Kaltias]

Basically an adjustment. She can already do everything that the abstract existence entails and the regen is basically her old type 8.

It's your fault for thinking that Homura can have defensive haxes

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Waiting for the new movie to be released and praying Homura would show any defence and perhaps another offense hax.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that the profile can be updated with Mid-Godly Regenerationn and abstract existence.