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Lü Bu vs Naruto

Naruto has regen, speed amps, clone spam, and basic Shinobi abilities. Lu Bu is kind of a one trick pony with basic spear attacks.
 
AThe1412 said:
He's good but let's see what the Naruto supporters have to say first.
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As a Naruto Supporter, Naruto isn’t that skilled at this point in the series, especially the feral KN0 Naruto that’s not to say he’s without skill, he demonstrates a lot of ingenuity with his limited arsenal and has above average Taijutsu skill even among people with consistent martial arts training for several years including frequent sparring.
 
That_moron2 said:
As a Naruto Supporter, Naruto isn’t that skilled at this point in the series, especially the feral KN0 Naruto that’s not to say he’s without skill, he demonstrates a lot of ingenuity with his limited arsenal and has above average Taijutsu skill even among people with consistent martial arts training for several years including frequent sparring.
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I have a feeling that he can overwhelm Lu Bu with his massive number of shadow clones and ranged attacks.
 
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AThe1412 said:
Uh, hello? Knockout and incapacitation is a victory condition. Not to mention, Immortality Type 7 doesn't really save him here.
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Lu Bu also shouldn't even have immo type 7. He's "technically dead" but killing him not only kills him but also destroys his soul. It's more of a nerf than an ability. It literally has no effect on the battle. Lu Bu lost his canonical fight by getting his head destroyed and immediately dying.
That_moron2 said:
As a Naruto Supporter, Naruto isn’t that skilled at this point in the series, especially the feral KN0 Naruto that’s not to say he’s without skill, he demonstrates a lot of ingenuity with his limited arsenal and has above average Taijutsu skill even among people with consistent martial arts training for several years including frequent sparring.
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On the other hand Lu Bu is not really skilled either. He has a lot of combat experience fighting regular humans, but he's mostly a meat head who powers his way through the opponent.

Naruto also isn't necessarily feral when he's in KN0. He was pretty normal both during the Neji and Gaara fights.
 
Lu Bu might unironically be the more feral one here lmao.
ed8425eb431cb8a91a16c2e56214ebb8.jpg
 
Saw my boy Lu Bu getting disrespected and had to step in.

Lu Bu’s direct skill feats and he scales above Sun Jian ~ Musashi > Living Kojiro. Octavius is the strongest man in Roman history with incomparable sword skills and unarmed Lu Bu does him like so with relative speed and could be harmed. Here is him as a kid taking an attack for the first time and automatically flowing with it to not get his arm turned into a pretzel. He comes with his own Spidey Sense. Dodges Mjölnir twice in a row despite it being both faster than him and a homing attack which is enchanted to never miss.

Tl;dr Lu Bu massively outscales predicting 39+ steps ahead, skill stomps master swordsmen and spearman, basic masters can be blind and still perfectly perceive moves just from being in the same room as a slash from a sword etc, counters attack reflection the first time he faced it as a kid etc.
 
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AnonymousBlank said:
Lu Bu’s direct skill feats and he scales above Sun Jian ~ Musashi > Living Kojiro.
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Kojiro is a swordsman, Lu Bu uses a spear. Not exactly comparable. And Lu Bu has never actually shown anything even remotely close to Kojiro analyzing all of creation to predict every possible outcome of a battle, so skill scaling him like this doesn't really work. Also they literally can't be above Kojiro in skill otherwise they would be in the tournament instead of him. Sasaki is specifically in it solely based on his skill without offering anything else.
AnonymousBlank said:
Octavius is the strongest man in Roman history with incomparable sword skills and unarmed Lu Bu does him like so with relative speed and could be harmed.
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Lu Bu literally grabs his 2 handed attack with 1 arm and squashes it like a juice box. This is absolutely a power feat, not a skill feat.
AnonymousBlank said:
Here is him as a kid taking an anrta for the first time and automatically flowing with it to not get his arm turned into a pretzel. He comes with his own Spidey Sense.
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Dodging an attack he doesn't see doesn't automatically give him a spidey sense like ability or IR.
AnonymousBlank said:
Dodges Mjölnir twice in a row despite it being both faster than him and a homing attack which is enchanted to never miss.
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Why would it be significantly faster? Lu Bu doesn't predict it nor does he use any insane technique to avoid it. It's literally just a giant hammer coming at him and he ducks then jumps over it. It's really nothing note worthy.
AnonymousBlank said:
Tl;dr Lu Bu massively outscales predicting 39+ steps ahead,
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Predicting 39 possible moves isn't the same as predicting 39 moves ahead. And that's not how skill scaling works since again, Lu Bu has never shown any impressive analytical prediction. It could just mean Lu Bus insane stats made the predictions inaccurate or he had an ability the opponent wasn't aware of.
AnonymousBlank said:
skill stomps master swordsmen and spearman, basic masters can be blind and still perfectly perceive moves just from being in the same room as a slash from a sword etc, counters attack reflection the first time he faced it as a kid etc.
Click to expand...
Mainly because his stats are off the charts.

And again, I'm not saying Lu Bu is not skilled at all. But he's fighting with a MASSIVE number disadvantage against someone who can make 1000 clones relative to himself, speed disadvantage because shunshin is a blitz tier amp, and endurance disadvantage because Naruto not only has insane stamina but also regeneration to heal any stab wounds LuBu could do. And again Naruto himself is pretty a skilled fighter given he could fight on par with people like Kabuto who have been ninjas their entire lifes and can fight Tsunade, as well as Neji who's genius surpasses the entire Hyuga clan.

Lu Bus skill is simply nowhere near enough to make up for the insane amount of disadvantages that he has.
 
DavidTPPM said:
Kojiro is a swordsman, Lu Bu uses a spear. Not exactly comparable.
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A non argument. I’m not claiming Lu Bu will be using a sword or anything. I’m saying Lu Bu skill stomps Sun Jian who is more skilled than living Kojiro who is more skilled than anything Naruto has in this key by a wide margin.
DavidTPPM said:
And Lu Bu has never actually shown anything even remotely close to Kojiro analyzing all of creation to predict every possible outcome of a battle, so skill scaling him like this doesn't really work.
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This is a strawman. Nobody in this thread but you made mention of Lu Bu scaling to Kojiro scanning creation. I specified living Kojiro aka the one who was killed by Musashi. The one who you brought up is end of R3 Kojiro who is a completely different character in terms of scaling.
DavidTPPM said:
Also they literally can't be above Kojiro in skill otherwise they would be in the tournament instead of him. Sasaki is specifically in it solely based on his skill without offering anything else.
Click to expand...
Another strawman. Kojiro trained since his death, hence why he is old during Ragnarok as he is better than he ever was. Living Kojiro is the one we see in his flashbacks.
DavidTPPM said:
Lu Bu literally grabs his 2 handed attack with 1 arm and squashes it like a juice box. This is absolutely a power feat, not a skill feat.
Click to expand...
Having relative speed to a master swordsman and completely weaving his every strike besides a stomp on his foot after getting sand in the eye all while unarmed is very much a skill feat. Claiming otherwise is dumb.
DavidTPPM said:
Dodging an attack he doesn't see doesn't automatically give him a spidey sense like ability or IR.
Click to expand...
Yet another strawman. I never said he has IR. You should probably quit while you’re ahead and stop arguing against things I never said.
DavidTPPM said:
Why would it be significantly faster? Lu Bu doesn't predict it nor does he use any insane technique to avoid it. It's literally just a giant hammer coming at him and he ducks then jumps over it. It's really nothing note worthy.
Click to expand...
Because we literally see it fly past him and still catch up to him on its return before he can cross 4m to Thor. It’s a magic hammer enchanted to never miss, has never missed and yet missed twice in a row within seconds of going against Lu Bu.

Your argument against this point is as valid as someone claiming Goku isn’t skilled just because the anime just shows a flurry of blows when he fights aka it isn’t. Sure, the panel doesn’t look impressive but context tells us otherwise.
DavidTPPM said:
Predicting 39 possible moves isn't the same as predicting 39 moves ahead. And that's not how skill scaling works since again, Lu Bu has never shown any impressive analytical prediction. It could just mean Lu Bus insane stats made the predictions inaccurate or he had an ability the opponent wasn't aware of.
Click to expand...
Are you trolling? This is the analytical prediction feat. The narrator statement in the scan explicitly says that Lu Bu used proto-Sky Eater in response to Sun Jian’s predictions, ie Lu Bu out-predicted him. It’s also, ya know, on the profile. You’re also ignoring the fact that this feat is practically identical to beginning of R3 Kojiro’s TID against Poseidon.
DavidTPPM said:
Mainly because his stats are off the charts.
Click to expand...
Literally no lol. His AP advantage against Cesc was irrelevant and honestly made it worse for him once Cesc used his sword, Lu Bu’s speed was comparable to Octavius but he evaded everything sent his way, Sun Jian was hyped by Dong Zhuo (someone comparable to Lu Bu) to be a worthy challenge for Lu Bu etc.
DavidTPPM said:
And again, I'm not saying Lu Bu is not skilled at all. But he's fighting with a MASSIVE number disadvantage against someone who can make 1000 clones relative to himself,
Click to expand...
Shadow Clones that will get erased by Sky Eater. Even one of the guys that Lu Bu scales above (Wei Qing) is responsible for killing thousands of guys. One of the previously established requirements for being the strongest is specifically in regards to how many heads they can take in a single swing. Numbers is not what you want to be arguing here.
DavidTPPM said:
speed disadvantage because shunshin is a blitz tier amp,
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Irrelevant since not only are Sun Jian’s predictions at the same level as start of R3 Kojiro which account for a blitz level amp so Lu Bu is chilling … Naruto doesn’t even use Shunshin in character.
DavidTPPM said:
and endurance disadvantage because Naruto not only has insane stamina but also regeneration to heal any stab wounds LuBu could do.
Click to expand...
Naruto needs to regen limbs if Lu Bu hits him (which he can’t) so that’s useless and his stamina is going to hell if he spams clones like you are claiming. Naruto, on the other hand, will struggle to do any damage here and what little he does, Lu Bu can ignore by just flexing his muscles and getting rid of the small wounds.
DavidTPPM said:
And again Naruto himself is pretty a skilled fighter given he could fight on par with people like Kabuto who have been ninjas their entire lifes and can fight Tsunade, as well as Neji who's genius surpasses the entire Hyuga clan.
Click to expand...
That’s a lot of fluff with nothing quantifiable. This Naruto is Forest of Death Naruto. He doesn’t have any of the skill or training that he got before fighting any of the people that you listed but let’s go down the list for posterity’s sake.
  • Kabuto is comparable to Kakashi (who Naruto doesn’t scale to in any fashion outside of landing a Rasengan) and trolled tf out of Naruto right after he tired out Tsunade by dodging every single one of her attacks. Naruto fluked his way into landing a hit on an offguard Kabuto who wasn’t even trying against him.
  • Tsunade stomped a stronger Naruto than the one in this match up with a single finger. There is no scaling here.
  • Neji fondled Naruto like a pro on the hub and would have won ridiculously fast if it wasn’t for the Kyuubi chakra unsealing his tenketsu. Naruto got stomped in terms of skill and needed to jump Neji while pulling on Kyuubi chakra to last long enough to exhaust Neji who was whipping out Kaiten.
Crazy, not only is this Naruto weaker and less skilled than the one who was part of the fights you mentioned, those Naruto’s don’t even perform the feats you referenced, especially by skill.
DavidTPPM said:
Lu Bus skill is simply nowhere near enough to make up for the insane amount of disadvantages that he has.
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What disadvantages? Regen does nothing for missing limbs? Large numbers that get one shot with a graze and waste Naruto’s stamina? A speed amp that has never even been used by this version of Naruto? An opponent sorely lacking in experience and skill to match even the most basic stuff Lu Bu scales above? Lu Bu is the one with an insane amount of advantages here.
 
AThe1412 said:
He may not have said it directly but what he has shown Lu Bu can do so far makes me think that he does stomp.
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I’d like to hear other’s opinions on this as well. If more agree that it’s a stomp, then this match can conclude
 
We can make this significantly more interesting if you use One-Tailed Cloak Part 1 Naruto or Start of Shippuden Naruto instead.
 
Okay, now Naruto has the AP advantage plus deceptively good melee range given his Cloak can extend to catch opponents who dodge his strikes as shown against Sasuke and it's hard to predict to since Sasuke's Sharingan wasn't enough to deal with it.
 
Base Lu Bu was upgraded to 7-A (467 Megatons) but the entire verse got downgraded to upscaling from his value.
 
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