Lucifer question (DC comics)

[NHTkenshin2]

In Lucifer (2006) #75
There is a statement that has troubled me because of people in the true form of hell (tiktok) use as evidence that Lucifer is a “Overvoid level entity”

As many would guess what i am talking about, i am referring to this scan


Is this really anything to scale Lucifer or is it a misinterpretation, and if so, why?

 

[Confluctor]

I feel like this has a few meanings, some more boring ones, like how it's speaking about his mind and emotion stuff.

In any case, there are more than one Void in DC - or at least layers of it, depending on how you look at, so there is no indication that they were talking about Over-Void which is essentially the ultimate Void, i.e the blank canvas irl. So, it comes down to what Void you want to interpret this as. This is simply vertigo Void, which is different than Over-Void.

Also, they could have been talking about Chaoplasm, which was another Void sort of place with nothing in it. And that's where Lucifer was cast off.


Tl;Dr, it all comes down to how you interpret the last few words. And how you want to look at the Void(s) in DC.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I feel like this has a few meanings, some more boring ones, like how it's speaking about his mind and emotion stuff.

In any case, there are more than one Void in DC - or at least layers of it, depending on how you look at, so there is no indication that they were talking about Over-Void which is essentially the ultimate Void, i.e the blank canvas irl. So, it comes down to what Void you want to interpret this as. This is simply vertigo Void, which is different than Over-Void.

Also, they could have been talking about Chaoplasm, which was another Void sort of place with nothing in it. And that's where Lucifer was cast off.


Tl;Dr, it all comes down to how you interpret the last few words. And how you want to look at the Void(s) in DC.

I need some explanations on why the vertigo void and the overvoid are different.

Also isnt the chaoplasm the Pre-Hell realm? Does it exist anymore after hell was created?

 

[Xearsay]

I need some explanations on why the vertigo void and the overvoid are different.

Also isnt the chaoplasm the Pre-Hell realm? Does it exist anymore after hell was created?

The Void in Lucifer is more like a standard space of nothingness that contains the Presences creation. It’s not really transcendent in any manner it’s just outside of everything.

The Overvoid is similar but a little different as it’s supposed to be this transcendent consciousness underlying everything where all contradictions dissolve into unity. Which includes the concept of nothingness. Meaning the Overvoid is essentially beyond the concepts of nothing and something. Which the Void presented in Vertigo is not.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

The Void in Lucifer is more like a standard space of nothingness that contains the Presences creation. It’s not really transcendent in any manner it’s just outside of everything.

The Overvoid is similar but a little different as it’s supposed to be this transcendent consciousness underlying everything where all contradictions dissolve into unity. Which includes the concept of nothingness. Meaning the Overvoid is essentially beyond the concepts of nothing and something. Which the Void presented in Vertigo is not.

Is this void and the void the spectre merges with the same?

 

[Xearsay]

Is this void and the void the spectre merges with the same?

I would say no as Dematteis admitted that he doesn’t know what the Overvoid is.

 

[Unwanted]

I'm not really sure what about this scan that can be used to scale Lucifer to the Overvoid. But the void Lucifer went into is definitely the Overvoid/Monitor-Mind.

There two types of void in DC.
A white void, which is the Overvoid/Monitor-Mind/the light, embodied by the Presence and his aspects. It's the canvas for creations and the source of all good.
And a black void/God's unconsciousness/the darkness, represented by TGEB, Mother Night, and Pralaya. It's annihilation, and the source of all evil and it's older than the overvoid

And since the Great Evil Beast and Lucifer are one and the same, the latter scales to the overvoid through being the embodiment of its opposite, the black void/God's unconscious.
Both voids are part of the Presence btw. The white represents his consciousness, while the black his unconscious.

 

[Hellsing]

I'm not really sure what about this scan that can be used to scale Lucifer to the Overvoid. But the void Lucifer went into is definitely the Overvoid/Monitor-Mind.

There two types of void in DC.
A white void, which is the Overvoid/Monitor-Mind/the light, embodied by the Presence and his aspects. It's the canvas for creations and the source of all good.
And a black void/God's unconsciousness/the darkness, represented by TGEB, Mother Night, and Pralaya. It's annihilation, and the source of all evil and it's older than the overvoid

And since the Great Evil Beast and Lucifer are one and the same, the latter scales to the overvoid through being the embodiment of its opposite, the black void/God's unconscious.
Both voids are part of the Presence btw. The white represents his consciousness, while the black his unconscious.

unwated how is lucifer 1A? seeing how they changed the definition for outerversal

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

unwated how is lucifer 1A? seeing how they changed the definition for outerversal

outdated information. He is getting downgraded to Low 1C or 1B

 

[ImmortalDread]

outdated information. He is getting downgraded to Low 1C or 1B

Why no one is editing it if staff accepted the downgrade? Mind linking me to the thread to downgrade?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Why no one is editing it if staff accepted the downgrade? Mind linking me to the thread to downgrade?

the thread isn`t done yet. DC is going to be split among writers since it cosmology is a mess

 

[Hellsing]

outdated information. He is getting downgraded to Low 1C or 1B

do you know if the presence is getting downgraded?

 

[Confluctor]

Likely yes

 

[Transcending]

do you know if the presence is getting downgraded?

Yeah, Divine Presence will be 1-A instead of High 1-A.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

outdated information. He is getting downgraded to Low 1C or 1B

Lucifers new tier is going to be low 1-C, possibly 1-A (baseline)

 

[ImmortalDread]

Lucifers new tier is going to be low 1-C, possibly 1-A (baseline)

bro between low 1-C and 1-A is big difference imao

 

[NHTkenshin2]

bro between low 1-C and 1-A is big difference imao

Me personally, i am leaning towards low 1-C more, but i'll see what happens

 

[ImmortalDread]

Me personally, i am leaning towards low 1-C more, but i'll see what happens

IDK TBH, we are talking about Lucifer Morningstar, it's been stated he is the second-strongest character besides the Presence and Michael.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

IDK TBH, we are talking about Lucifer Morningstar, it's been stated he is the second-strongest character besides the Presence and Michael.

His rank in the verse doesn't matter to where he scales at

 

[Transcending]

IDK TBH, we are talking about Lucifer Morningstar, it's been stated he is the second-strongest character besides the Presence and Michael.

Not exactly, it was stated that he was perhaps the second strongest character in the verse. Dream also ignored Michael iirc, so Michael matching him would be a contradiction.

Plus the statement comes from the 80s after which lots of new characters were made. A past statement wouldn't apply to future characters.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Not exactly, it was stated that he was perhaps the second strongest character in the verse. Dream also ignored Michael iirc, so Michael matching him would be a contradiction.

Plus the statement comes from the 80s after which lots of new characters were made. A past statement wouldn't apply to future characters.

Dream has no chance against both. If you are referring to the oldest game battle, Dream only outplay him, but he himself stated that Lucifer got no chance.
Did you not see how Lucifer literally mock the Endless family?

 

[Transcending]

Dream has no chance against both. If you are referring to the oldest game battle, Dream only outplay him, but he himself stated that Lucifer got no chance.
Did you not see how Lucifer literally mock the Endless family?

I never said Dream is above Lucifer though? I agree that Lucifer is above The Endless

 

[ImmortalDread]

I never said Dream is above Lucifer though? I agree that Lucifer is above The Endless

But you are right. In the 80s, nigh omnipotence was like a multiverse level or even a Lil above.
Him being outversal as many fanboys claim makes no sense. The presence is literally above him still.

 

[Transcending]

But you are right. In the 80s, nigh omnipotence was like a multiverse level or even a Lil above.
Him being outversal as many fanboys claim makes no sense. The presence is literally above him still.

Agreed