Lucifer Downgrade cw

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Lucifer and co are currently scaling to

Attack Potency: At least Mountain level+, likely at least Multi-Continent level, likely higher (As an Archangel, he should be superior to angels like Manny, demons like Neron, Mallus and Sabbac, and wizards like Constantine.)

But I will show how that's not true. As there is no reason for Lucifer to scale massively above any of those. First there is no justification shown in any profile for why they should be above any of them.

Angels
There is no actual justification to scale him above other angels, them being archangels means little even more on Earth. Actually considering Lucifer is a fallen angel we know that fallen angels should be weaker than other angels since Imogen was easily killed by Manny. Also either because of his subconsious, because he is a fallen angel or whatever, his power's on earth are very clearly limited. It was also agreed with this thread that Manny's weather feat should not scale.
Uriel who is not an archangel can beat Lucifer too, he was inicially losing but after starting to predict Lucifer's patterns he beat him completely.

Demons
Again we have no reason to scale Lucifer above demons and even less for them to scale while on Earth.
I will start to say that in Lucifer series is specifically stated that demons cannot became rulers of hell, simply because the ruler needs to be an angel, it's a huge plot for season 4 that's why the demons even tried to kidnap Charlie to rule over hell, so it doesn't really matter if Lucifer is weaker or not, there is also the fact that he controls hell which apparently give him tier 4 power which is above any demon.
Also why would Neron be considered an average demon? Considering what we saw in Lucifer with Maze and all her brothers and sisters it seems the average demon should be at best as strong as Maze herself, Lilith is stated to have had millions of kids some of which we saw in the Lucifer series as being barely stronger than a human during the entirety of season 4 and some at Maze's wedding
And more importantly Maze can fight and hurt archangels/angels Maze also fights Michael in episode 5x2 beating him but I can't find a youtube video, and it's implied to have killed angels before (I couldn't find the scene but it's episode 3x13 when Lucifer asks Maze on ways to kill Cain, she talks about her fight's with celestial beings) which would contradict demons bellow archangels and angels, Maze herself can be hurt by normal humans although she clearly outskill's them since she trainned in hell at least since before Abel was killed, the same way angels outskill Maze yet she is more than capable of making them bleed with her own hands and not just her hell blades. Given that Maze can hurt them, they cannot be massively stronger than she is.

Wizards
Again no justification in the other thread he says that he want to scale based on the fact Lucifer can go to hell while Constantine can't, but that's clearly hax not power scalable. Actually him having a card to go to Hell in any circumstance doesn't really make sense with the plot of Lucifer since he wasn't supposed to be capable of travelling to and from Hell without his wings or his special coin.

The explosion
The feat that seemingly conviced the staff to scale Lucifer was him being capable of walking out of an explosion. That explosion was a gas explosion which duo to it's earthly natura cannot hurt Lucifer because he has invulnerability to those, it's an hax feat not an actual durability feat. There is also the fact that we have no reason to scale Lucifer's attack potency from a durability feat since those who are capable of hurting him are angels and demons to whom the invulnerability doesn't work.

Conclusion
I's not saying that angels and archangels don't have super strenght, they do but they are shown to be just a bit stronger than humans surely not tier 7 or 6.
Lucifer, Amenadiel, Michael, Azrael, Remiel, Uriel should go back to

At least''' Small Building level''

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Actually considering Lucifer is a fallen angel we know that fallen angels should be weaker than other angels since Imogen was easily killed by Manny.

Those two points don't correlate, Imogen could've always been stronger regardless of what angel he was, you'd have to prove his superiority is through being a normal angel while Manny was fallen.

It doesn't help that the scene you used had Imogen kill Manny by surprise before she can react, it's legit a non viable scaling method to begin with.

Also either because of his subconsious, because he is a fallen angel or whatever, his power's on earth are very clearly limited.

I mean sure, but irrc that was only with when Chloe was around no?

It was also agreed with this thread that Manny's weather feat should not scale.

Yeah true.

Uriel who is not an archangel can beat Lucifer too, he was inicially losing but after starting to predict Lucifer's patterns he beat him completely.

Which isn't exactly demoting, Uriel won because fancy percog, not by strength or speed or power, infact he was losing in said categories, hence this does the opposite of your point.

I agree on the Demon point as nothing seems sketchy there tbh, explosion too, Wizard's weird but I'd rather point to it out to be inconsistency.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Those two points don't correlate, Imogen could've always been stronger regardless of what angel he was, you'd have to prove his superiority is through being a normal angel while Manny was fallen.

Manny wasn't fallen though

It doesn't help that the scene you used had Imogen kill Manny by surprise before she can react, it's legit a non viable scaling method to begin with.

He was right there. Also I don't need to prove Imogen and Manny as relative since the entire point of their scaling is that all angels are somehow relative in all attributes, being capable of killing them that easily contradicts them being relative

I mean sure, but irrc that was only with when Chloe was around no?

I meant his power limited compared to his full power self on heaven or hell.

Yeah true.

Which isn't exactly demoting, Uriel won because fancy percog, not by strength or speed or power, infact he was losing in said categories, hence this does the opposite of your point.

Fancy precog doesn't make him go from 9-A to tier 7 to defeat Lucifer. I'm not saying Lucifer isn't stronger only that they are close enough that they can fight each other. Currently Lucifer is scaled to 7-A possibly high 6-A while Uriel is 9-A.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Manny wasn't fallen though

My bad, don't have much knowledge on Constantine. Kinda confused them both with each other.

He was right there. Also I don't need to prove Imogen and Manny as relative since the entire point of their scaling is that all angels are somehow relative in all attributes, being capable of killing them that easily contradicts them being relative

Now that I think about it yeah, if they were relatively not that far off Manny shouldn’t be able to literally tear her heart out, even in surprise or not.

I meant his power limited compared to his full power self on heaven or hell.

Alr.

Fancy precog doesn't make him go from 9-A to tier 7 to defeat Lucifer. I'm not saying Lucifer isn't stronger only that they are close enough that they can fight each other. Currently Lucifer is scaled to 7-A possibly high 6-A while Uriel is 9-A.

Nah Uriel is 7-B from what I checked on the wiki, still a big power difference but not really as big as 9-A.

So yeah still an anti-feat problem but not that big of a one.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Nah Uriel is 7-B from what I checked on the wiki, still a big power difference but not really as big as 9-A.

So yeah still an anti-feat problem but not that big of a one.

Everyone is scaling to Neron because of "he is an average demon" with no actual evidence and it's why I have a part in the op about average demon, so I was ignoring the tier 7 but sure I guess it's lower but an antifeat nonetheless