Low 1-A for Manifold

[Antvasima]

I am fine with compromising on leaving the rating as At least Low 1-A, likely 1-A

This is fine with me as well.

 

[Threemagi]

What's the speed for Low 1-A? Immeasurable? Irrelevant?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably immeasurable, but I think that Ultima Reality might revise our speed ratings as well.

 

[Threemagi]

@Antvasima I think its Immeasurable too.

Alright, I already finished the page for The Goddess of The Manifold and Downstreamers.


If you want, you could unlock the pages, then I could add the changes.

 

[Threemagi]

Downstreamers

Powers and Stats

Tier: 3-A to 2-C | At least Low 1-A , Likely 1-A

Civilization Tier: Transcendent Civilizatio

Name: Downstreamers, Old Ones, Ancestors of the Afterglow

Origin: The Manifold Trilogy (by Stephen Baxter)

Gender: Varies, possibly Unknown

Age: More than 10^117 years old | Inapplicable

Classification: Hyperadvanced posthuman civilization, neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational beings | Abstract existence

Kardashev Level: Type VII

Population: Unknown

Territory: The entirety of existence

Powers and Abilities: Acausality (Type 5), Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, up to Higher-Dimensional Existence, Regenerationn (High-Godly, possibly higher. Can even 'regenerate' into a more effective and powerful form after their neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational form was destroyed in the Manifoldverse's total collapse), Time Manipulation, Immortality (Types 1 and 3), Causality Manipulation (They transcend causality and could alter causality on multiversal scale), Omniscience, Invulnerability, Matter Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Spaceflight, Teleportation, Non-Corporeal, Probability Manipulation, Creation, Quantum Manipulation, Portal Creation, Time Travel, Technology Manipulation, Mathematics Manipulation, Reality Warping, Higher-Dimensional Existence, | All previous powers and abilities Abstract Existence (Type 1), Likely Transduality (Type 3 ; Manifoldverse encompasses all forms of mathematical/logic systems) Immortality, (Likely Type 10), Large Size (Type 10, Likely Type 11), Likely Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Likely Type 1), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Likely Type 1 ; as the Old Ones (Created and transcended an "ultimate reality" which contains the crux of all logical concepts))

Attack Potency: Universe level (Can effortlessly create abstract material with their thoughts which can withstand the combined energy of a thousand big bangs per second. Similarly, they possess weapons capable of carving giant maws on a construct which is noted to be trillions of times bigger than our current observable universe) to Low Multiverse level (Capable of altering the fabric of time in thousands of universes, including at least one 11-dimensional M-Theory universe) | At least Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones' capability, which includes the effortless manipulation of the fabric of existence, is nearly boundless, and they are capable of creating infinitely-layered multiverses that contain an equally infinite number of multiverses within them. The Manifoldverse itself consists of an infinite hierarchy of infinite multiverses) , Likely Outerverse level (In Manifoldverse, there exist at least one realm which is beyond the structure of spacetime, where mathematical concepts such as ; "add" and "substract" lose all meaning. Manifoldverse consists of an infinite number of infinite multiverses, encompassing all forms of mathematics and formalisms ; Type IV Tegmark Multiverse, The Old Ones themselves exist at the top of this endless hierarchy, far beyond the applications of normal space and time, and may be one with an "Ultimate Manifold", that encompasses all other manifolds in the tapestry of existence. Superior to all physical laws as they can be described, they have a near complete understanding of existence itself, allowing them to modify a few rules governing how the entirety of the verse works, such as likely changing the type of the multiverse, which enables them to create "infinite possibilities for life and mind")

Power Source: The entirety of existence

Industrial Capacity: Irrelevant

Military Prowess: Irrelevant

Notable Individuals: The Goddess of The Manifold

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Their non-corporeal forms include a Causal Loop computer that essentially make them know things before they happen, and they also possess FTL ships with which to transport lesser races) | At least Immeasurable (Created the Red Moon, a construct that could travel through an infinite amount of possible universes within a finite scope of time through the use of phase-space engineering. Capable of easily changing the constants of reality to be able to travel in ways that cannot be described by human language, and may transcend the concept of movement itself) , Likely Irrelevant

Lifting Strength: Unknow | At least Immeasurable , Likely Irrelevant

Striking Strength: Unknow | At least Low Outerversal , Likely Outerversal

Durability: Universe level (Some Downstreamers, who don't come from the "Time of Afterglow," are born from naked singularities. They are capable of surviving even when exposed to such a naked singularity at close proximity. They can produce material strictly from their thoughts that can withstand the combined force of a thousand big bangs per second; said material is completely immune to any change in the laws of physics. The Downstreamers as a whole were also fully capable of surviving the heat-death of a universe, though it is unknown to what degree they were weakened as a result of this). Likely High Hyperverse level (Individual Pre-FVC Downstreamers are intangible neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational beings, which could survive the collapse of an infinitely-layered reality) | At least Low Outerverse level , Likely Outerverse level (Reached a new level of existence, which was vastly superior to its previous incarnation, transcending the whole of known reality and the "infinite ensemble," of possible multiverses that arranged due to the Manifold's expansion)

Stamina: Unknown | Limitless

Range: Interstellar (Pre-FVC Downstreamers are described to be a "light-year wide," in size) to Low Multiversal (Capable of enacting time-line alteration on at least 1000 non-causally connected universes, and could set up Time Portals made of physics-warping material at will in at least 1000 universes) to Low Outerversal (They have access to the whole Manifoldverse) | At least Low Outerversal , Likely Outerversal (Capable of controlling and initiating cosmic inflation across the multiverse, in which universes are described as "mere bubbles of foam on an ocean". The Old Ones exist in the "ultimate manifold", on top of an endless hierarchy that encompasses all other manifolds in the tapestry of existence)

Standard Equipment: None notable

Intelligence: Omniscient (Know how every possible event in the universe will unfold down to the quantum level. Their "brains," are Causal Loop computers, a device which grants them infinite thinking and processing power.) | Omniscient (The Old Ones exist at the top of endless hierarchies of infinity, and are able to comprehend the "ultimate manifold" that encompasses all other manifolds in the tapestry of existence.)

Weaknesses: Dependent on energy (Mainly from Black Holes). If they are present in a universe approaching heat death, their abilities take significantly longer to use, as they cannot collapse any black holes to sustain their abilities and technology. | None notable

Technology:

• Red Moon: A moon-sized construct that wanders through the Manifoldverse, transporting humans from different universes to empty ones. It can travel to infinite number of universes in a finite amount of time through use of phase space (higher-dimensional engineering). It can also affect probability through quantum tunneling.

• Refugium: A universe-sized construct built around cosmic strings, which is created as a shelter of sorts to all different kinds of organisms. All sections have bubbles which are tailored to suit all kind of organisms' needs.

• Planetarium: A simulation system whose purpose is to project a generated reality surrounding the solar system, which is undetectable by any means. It is a perfect simulation down to the quantum level, requiring more energy than a galaxy. It's implied that this was just another experiment of the Downstreamers, resolving the Fermi Paradox in a certain universe by creating this false reality to protect humanity.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

• Time Portals: Pre-FVC Downstreamers can materialize material of molded space-time out of their thoughts at will. The material can be used to time travel and for defensive purposes (It can withstand the force of thousand Big Bangs instantaneously, and is still intact even past the heat death of the universe. It can also deploy a field around selected areas which allow the Downstreamers to freely change the laws of physics inside it.)

• Unreality Wave: Mixes all different possible states of a universe from phase space until the universe is completely destroyed.

• Time-line Alteration: Allows the Pre-FVC Downstreamers to change time-lines of at least 1000 different non-causally connected universes at the same time.

• Transcendence: A transformation which allows the Downstreamers to transcend an infinitely-layered infinite multiverse after their Non-Corporeal form (Which was a neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational body was destroyed in the complete multiversal collapse. This form transcends all known existence.)

• Cosmic Inflation: Produces seeds which grow into countless universes. These universes are compared to bubbles in foam floating on an ocean.

• Existence Manipulation: The Old Ones can effortlessly change the rules of the entire Manifoldverse, allowing them to create infinite possibilities for both life and mind.

Key: Downstreamers | Old Ones

Related Blogs : [1] [2] [3] [4]

Others
Notable Victories:

Notable Losses:

Inconclusive Matches:


Goddess

Powers and Stats
Tier: At least Low 1-A , Likely 1-A

Name: The Goddess of The Manifold, The God of The Manifold

Origin: Manifold Trilogy

Gender: Female

Age: Unknown, likely innaplicable

Classification: "God", possibly a downstreamer or production of them

Powers and Abilities: Omnipresence, Cosmic Awareness, Immortality (Types 1, 3 and 5, Likely Type 10), Higher-Dimensional Existence, Likely Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1), Large Size (Type 10, Likely Type 11), Likely Transduality (Type 3 ; Manifoldverse encompasses all forms of mathematical/logic systems), Non-Corporeal, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Likely Type 1), Reality Warping, Causality Manipulation, Regenerationn (High-Godly), Creation, Probability Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Quantum Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Acausality (Type 5), Dimensional Travel

Attack Potency At least Low Outerverse level (Exists on the highest level of existence beyond the "Manifold of Manifolds" that contains an infinite hierarchy of infinite multiverses, implied to be a production of the Downstreamers or a member, or even leader, of them) , Likely Outerverse level (Manifoldverse which The Goddess embodies contains at least one realm which is ; beyond the structure of spacetime, where mathematical concepts of distance, 'add' and 'substract' are inapplicable. Manifoldverse encompasses all forms of mathematical systems and formalism, making it a Type IV Tegmark Multiverse)

Speed: At least Immeasurable, possibly Omnipresent (Implied to be an "expression" of existence)

Lifting Strength: At least Immeasurable , Likely Irrelevant

Striking Strength: At least Low Outerversal , Likely Outerversal

Durability: At least Low Outerverse level , Likely Outerverse level

Stamina: Limitless

Range: At least Low Outerversal , Likely Outerversal

Standard Equipment: None Notable

Intelligence: Nigh-Omniscient (Comprehends the entirety of the "Manifold of Manifolds" at once)

Weaknesses: None Notable

Others
Notable Victories:

Notable Losses:

Inconclusive Matches:

 

[Antvasima]

I think that seems fine, but am not the best person to ask. What do the rest of you think?

 

[Threemagi]

@Elizhaa , @Ultima Reality , @Zachary

About Beyond-Dimensional Existence, the Type should be Type 1, right?

quoting from the page for Type 1 :

Specifically, these are adimensional objects that can be found in universes with an emphasis on very advanced mathematics and geometry, such as ultimate ensembles, or in universes where there are characters with various dimensionless characteristics.

Transduality should be accessible too , right? Encompassing all logical systems and all. But what Type? Type 3? Type 1?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Seems fine

 

[Threemagi]

Seems fine

I can't decide on what type of Transduality they may have though.

But it seems Transduality page seems forbid even Type IV Multiverse Creators to have Transduality?

Transduality, as is used/portrayed in fiction, is mainly a philosophical or theological concept, although its foundations lay within real logic and mathematics. However, even though we can construct non-dual mathematical and logical models, this, similar to our inability to perceive higher dimensions of space and time, will not allow us to truly grasp the scope of non-dual systems, since the foundations of our logic (classical logic within mathematics) are all based off binary distinctions

A basic example of Plurality is characters whose fundamental nature operates under many-valued or certain kinds of non-classical logic, where many different values can exist that are not true or false, 0/1/2, or any dichotomies in betwee. However, simply being able to use many-valued logic in a feat context does not qualify a character for this type, such characters must demonstrate true qualitative superiority to all types of dual distinctions. Naturally, only 1-A characters and up can have this type, as it exists outside all possible dual distinctions.

Can someone confirm this for me? Wether creator of Type IV Multiverse can have Transduality or not?

 

[Threemagi]

@Ultima Reality @Elizhaa


Would an embodiment/creator of Type IV Multiverse has Transduality? If so, what Type?

Type 4 seems like its explicitly outside the reach of Goddess/Downstreamers, so maybe Type 2? Or 3?

 

[Elizhaa]

Type 1 Beyond-Dimensional Existence looks fine; I think it would be Type 3 Transduality, Threemagi.

 

[Threemagi]

Type 1 Beyond-Dimensional Existence looks fine; I think it would be Type 3 Transduality, Threemagi.

Okay, thank you.

Umm, anyone else?

@Antvasima Maybe we could start editing the pages?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so, although I would prefer a bit more staff input first.

 

[Udlmaster]

Would an embodiment/creator of Type IV Multiverse has Transduality? If so, what Type?

Type 4 seems like its explicitly outside the reach of Goddess/Downstreamers, so maybe Type 2? Or 3?

It would be Type 3, being Non-dual isn't many valued, it's not 0 or 1.

 

[Threemagi]

@Antvasima Okay. But who should I call? Ultima and Elizhaa already posted in here.

It would be Type 3, being Non-dual isn't many valued, it's not 0 or 1.

Well, yes, Type 4 already said so ; being able to use many-valued logic Ôëá having Type 4 Transduality.


But wonder, is there a Power that covers : 'can use non-classical logic or many-valued logic'?

Maybe Logic Manipulation? But iirc there's no such page.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you can ask some of our administrators. They are usually reliable when it comes to rational analysis.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. You can probably start to edit the pages. If you write the exact page titles here, I can unlock them for you with my automated script.

 

[Udlmaster]

>But wonder, is there a Power that covers : 'can use non-classical logic or many-valued logic'?

No, besides your transdualism, being Transdual doesn't give you any powers

 

[Threemagi]

Never mind. You can probably start to edit the pages. If you write the exact page titles here, I can unlock them for you with my automated script.

Okay then

Downstreamers

The Goddess of The Manifold

No, besides your transdualism, being Transdual doesn't give you any powers

Exactly. Goddess/downstreamers is the reverse of Type 4 description. They can possibly use other logic systems, but not explicitly said to qualify by Type 4's own description.

That's why I'm searching for another Power page which fits.

But Transduality page is the closest I could find , regarding 'encompassing logic' and all.

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked the pages. Please make sure to closely follow the instructions in the following page when you edit: Common Editing Mistakes

 

[Threemagi]

@Antvasima Okay, thank you. I'll call you when done.

 

[Threemagi]

@Antvasima'Kay I'm done


@ZacharyGrossman273 I got rid of Higher-Dimensional Existence on Pre Key because in their weaker form, they no longer qualify considering they no longer qualify as High 1-C.


If no one has anything to add. This thread might be considered finished. I think...

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. I have locked the pages again.

 

[Threemagi]

You're welcome.

 

[Threemagi]

I'd say "At least Low 1-A, likely 1-A" is good for them based on the scans. The Goddess could be higher if more context to the "hierarchy of Manifolds" thing appears.

@Ultima Reality I may have found context to this :

Manifold has higher-order

`You may be right that we come from different alternate realities, Malenfant. Two strands in some higher-order manifold of possible universes. If so, the strands don't seem to run in neat parallel lines, like lanes on a highway, do they? They must - touch - in a more complicated way. Here, in Phobos. And maybe other places like it.' He shook his head, trying to clear his thoughts.
	~ World Engines : Destroyer​

'Higher-order' might be alluding to quote of 'manifold of manifolds infinite hierarchy'.
We might be looking at infinite outerversal hierarchy here? Considering just One Manifold (of possibly lower order) already contains all possible cosmologies.

Higher order logic, in manifold

`Impossible,' Emma said. `Experienced, impossible or not,' Bartholomew said. `There's probably a logic to all this,' Emma said. 'Just as there is probably a logic to having those five hoops in a space where only four hoops can exist. It's just that it's a - higher - logic than we are capable of seeing.' `Yeah,' Malenfant said, thinking hard.
	~ World Engines : Destroyer​

It has 'higher order logic'. Maybe this quote lends some legitimacy about manifold encompassing all forms of logic.