Lord Recluse vs Hot Dog (Tiersetter Tourney R1M1-C)

[Agnaa]

Let's see if we can get through this match of my tourney without another DQ.

Lord Recluse's AP will be interpreted as 7-C (10-20 kilotons).

Hot Dog's AP is 18 kilotons.

Speed will be equalised. Other than that, the battle assumptions will be standard; starting range will be somewhere in the Tens of Meters range since neither of their profiles give an exact number.

Lord Recluse: 0

Hot Dog: 0

Inconclusive: 0

@DaReaperMan @Propellus

 

[DaReaperMan]

Lord Recluse's heat resistance depends on how you take it, but generally dips in magma don't do anything to him and plasma flame doesn't torch him.

So... somewhere between 1200 Celcius and 20,000 Celcius for his heat resistance.

In terms of battle... Lord Recluse already wrecked Krypto himself, and Hot Dog doesn't seem much more impressive.

 

[DontTalkDT]

If Hot Dog's flames are supposed to be Tier 7, then their heat should be much higher than the 1370°C on the profile, but then again, no idea how that character's scaling works.

Going with what's on the profile, Recluse seems more impressive at a glance.

 

[DaReaperMan]

If Hot Dog's flames are supposed to be Tier 7, then their heat should be much higher than the 1370°C on the profile, but then again, no idea how that character's scaling works.

This is a case where we go by feats not what makes sense from a physics perspective... mostly because I don't think the creators realize power-scalers would put these characters to the point where the heat from Hot Dog would need to have the full concentrated power of the sun to harm anything with it lol

 

[DontTalkDT]

This is a case where we go by feats not what makes sense from a physics perspective... mostly because I don't think the creators realize power-scalers would put these characters to the point where the heat from Hot Dog would need to have the full concentrated power of the sun to harm anything with it lol

This page quantifies feats via physics, so there is no separating these things. Heck, the water feat on the profile probably would need much higher temperatures to actually work.
And due to AP ≠ AoE I don't see a counter feat (or at least none that wouldn't also be one for the AP rating in general)

In any case, heat and energy of a flame are one and the same. Two words for the same thing. It's like trying to separate the kinetic energy a punch carries from its AP. You can't have a mountain level 3J punch, because the joules are the definition of what it means to be mountain level.
If that flame is supposed to be Tier 7-C, then the flame has to have 7-C energy in it by definition (unless factors like extreme concentration apply). So unless you wish to argue that it has that energy in some other form, like kinetic energy or electricity, it will have 7-C heat energy which will reflect in its temperature.

We don't have a standard in place that separates temperature from heat energy, otherwise we would have a rule page explaining it.


What you could maybe argue is that Hot Dog (or just his flames specifically) isn't actually energy-wise comparable to Krypto and can only harm comparable beings due to their lack of heat resistance (the thread on whether that chain of argument holds never 100% concluded and personally I don't think it should without limit). However, I don't know if that's viable by the verse's scaling and doing so would mean to downgrade the character (or at least his flames specifically) from 7-C. Hence my note that I don't know the scaling.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This page quantifies feats via physics, so there is no separating these things. Heck, the water feat on the profile probably would need much higher temperatures to actually work.
And due to AP ≠ AoE I don't see a counter feat (or at least none that wouldn't also be one for the AP rating in general)

In any case, heat and energy of a flame are one and the same. Two words for the same thing. It's like trying to separate the kinetic energy a punch carries from its AP. You can't have a mountain level 3J punch, because the joules are the definition of what it means to be mountain level.
If that flame is supposed to be Tier 7-C, then the flame has to have 7-C energy in it by definition (unless factors like extreme concentration apply). So unless you wish to argue that it has that energy in some other form, like kinetic energy or electricity, it will have 7-C heat energy which will reflect in its temperature.

We don't have a standard in place that separates temperature from heat energy, otherwise we would have a rule page explaining it.


What you could maybe argue is that Hot Dog (or just his flames specifically) isn't actually energy-wise comparable to Krypto and can only harm comparable beings due to their lack of heat resistance (the thread on whether that chain of argument holds never 100% concluded and personally I don't think it should without limit). However, I don't know if that's viable by the verse's scaling and doing so would mean to downgrade the character (or at least his flames specifically) from 7-C. Hence my note that I don't know the scaling.

Sounds like you should calculate the water feat then, but I don't really think we should make assumptions on heat like that, personally. It's just me but I think it'd just end up in a lot verses having weird anti-feats to the heat assumed by harming XYZ.

 

[Propellus]

Hot Dog's flames still has force in them, that's the thing, as we can't really scale heat energy much to physical force.

I'm not sure where Reaper got the 1,200⁰C-20,000⁰C heat resistances from, but if it's true that Recluse has a heat resistance of 20,000⁰C then this mostly isn't a fair match as it takes away Hot Dog's massive advantage which would have to keep Recluse far alert from his powers as he would also be unable to be grappled just by burning through the opponent. And Hot Dog doesn't seem to have that much skill compared to Krypto's so far, so he'll likely get comically skillwanked to death and just easily dodge most of his attacks if I'm not mistaken.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Sounds like you should calculate the water feat then, but I don't really think we should make assumptions on heat like that, personally. It's just me but I think it'd just end up in a lot verses having weird anti-feats to the heat assumed by harming XYZ.

In my experience those anti-feats you think of would kinda be anti-feats in general. Like "Tier 6 character can't melt tungsten wall, so their flame can't be super hot" is an anti-feat... but also an anti-feat towards the attack being Tier 6, as a Tier 6 attack should definitely destroy it regardless.

You could make a CRT on the topic. Only reason I haven't done so myself is that "Y'know this thing we make no special exception for? We should continue to make no exception for it" is an awkward thread.

Hot Dog's flames still has force in them, that's the thing, as we can't really scale heat energy much to physical force.

Ah, so the idea is that the flames actually have 7-C energy in the form of KE but not a lot of heat energy. Yeah, that's a fair argument to make.

In that case Recluse should take this.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hot Dog's flames still has force in them, that's the thing, as we can't really scale heat energy much to physical force.

I'm not sure where Reaper got the 1,200⁰C-20,000⁰C heat resistances from, but if it's true that Recluse has a heat resistance of 20,000⁰C then this mostly isn't a fair match as it takes away Hot Dog's massive advantage which would have to keep Recluse far alert from his powers as he would also be unable to be grappled just by burning through the opponent. And Hot Dog doesn't seem to have that much skill compared to Krypto's so far, so he'll likely get comically skillwanked to death and just easily dodge most of his attacks if I'm not mistaken.

Good ol' Google.

either way, yeah, Lord Recluse's resistances kind of carry him here, allowing him to just kind of exercise his slight AP advantage and beat Hot Dog into the ground. Lord Recluse kind of does tank for the hell of it to his detriment, but it's not gonna ever lose him a match when he holds quite literally every advantage except maybe Mobility.