Lord English vs SCP-001 (S Andrew Swann's Proposal)

[WeeklyBattles]

YOU. YOU THERE. GIRL. QUIT ALL THIS SCURRYING AROUND. DO YOU THINK YOU CAN ESCAPE ME BEFORE I ARRIVE? HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO OUTRUN ME WHEN I AM ALREADY HERE?
	~ Lord English​

Powers and Stats
Tier: Low 1-B, possibly far higher

Name: Caliborn, the Lord of Time, Lord English, the Angel of Double Death, undyingUmbrage (screen name)

Origin: Homestuck

Gender: Male

Age: Technically older than time

Classification: Indestructible paradox demon

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Flight, Time Manipulation (As a Lord of Time, he has complete control over the flow of time), Spatial Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, Mind Control, Clairvoyance (Can observe events across space and time), Invulnerability, Reality Warping, Sealing, BFR, Acausality, Void Manipulation (His existence includes Equius, the Heir of Void, and he can cause "Double Death", completely erasing a person from existence), Probability Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Time Travel, Teleportation, exists simultaneously across all timelines even before his emergence, Regenerationn, Immortality (Types 1, 3, 4, and 8; can only be killed through the exploitation of various time-based glitches and loopholes)

Attack Potency: Low Hyperverse level (Was destroying Paradox Space, which exists beyond the rest of the multiverse, which is referred to in Problem Sleuth as a String Theory multiverse), possibly far higher (Was able to kill Andrew Hussie, who is the author of the story and creator of all MSPA)

Speed: Immeasurable, possibly Omnipresent (Lord English exists in all timelines, even prior to his summoning and his birth; he is already here.)

Lifting Strength: Immeasurable

Striking Strength: Low Hyperversal, possibly far higher

Durability: Low Hyperverse level (He can only be harmed by the exploitation of many time-based glitches, paradoxes, and loopholes), possibly far higher

Stamina: Likely limitless.

Range: Low Hyperversal, possibly far higher

Standard Equipment: The Green Sun Cane and the Golden AK.

Intelligence: Although referred to as "learning-impaired" by both himself and Hussie, Caliborn is noted to be exceptionally cunning, inventive, and brutal, and was able to use The Felt's powers to their fullest extents to win his session, which was so difficult it was seen as "nearly impossible", even for him. In addition, he later develops an exceptionally high understanding of the mechanics and time and space.

Weaknesses: Lord English is weak to the Ultimate Weapon and can be harmed by a combination of many time-based glitches, paradoxes, and loopholes.

We found out that there is a God, and it is SCP-001. And it's a bunch of horror writers.

Powers and Stats
Tier: Low 1-B

Name: SCP-001, "The Database"

Origin: SCP Foundatio

Gender: Unknown

Age: Unknown

Classification: Keter Class Anomalous Entity

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Creation, Reality Warping, Non-Corporeal, Conceptual Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Memory Manipulation

Attack Potency: Low Hyperverse level (Has perfect control over the SCP reality, transcending beings such as the Scarlet King, the Hanged King, Yaldabaoth, and Mekhane and viewing them, and the multiverse as a whole, as nothing more than a work of fiction. If it dies it would cause the total metaphysical annihilation of the multiverse)

Speed: Omnipresent (SCP-001 is simultaneously present in all points throughout the entire SCP multiverse)

Lifting Strength: Immeasurable

Striking Strength: Low Hyperversal

Durability: Low Hyperverse level

Stamina: Limitless (Has been in a constant state of rewriting parts of the multiverse since its creation)

Range: Low Hyperversal

Standard Equipment: None

Intelligence: Nigh-Omniscient

Weaknesses: None notable

001 is an author, Lord English killed his author. Both are related to Yaldabaoth in some way. Lets kick off 001 Swann's long awaited upgrade with a good matchup. In character, non prior knowledge or prep time. Who wins?

Lord English - 2 (Gargoyle 1, Numbersguy)

001 Swann - 0

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

SCP via having absoulute control over the whole SCPverse

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Will get back to this later, but just want to point out that having control over an entire verse means jack if your opponent is on the same level as you.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

SCP via having absoulute control over the whole SCPverse

That means nothing.

Anyway, I think I'd give it to English via his unbelievable versatility by comparison. Void manipulation, BFR, matter manipulation etc are all great but I don't know if Casualty can work on Mr. English

 

[Numbersguy]

I am going with English.

I mean he literally "got out of the plot" and killed Hussie, who knew he was coming and all that jazz, and he has far more powers. I think he has this.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Gargoyle 001 has void manipulation too, as well as conceptual manipulation...

 

[LoliPower]

This might be inconclusive. Swann seems to have the advantage in conceptual manipulation and he is also decisively omnipresent with non-corporeality, while English is "only" immeasurable to possibly omnipresent, a distinction which I think is important to point out. English seems to have the advantage in soul manipulation and possibly mind control (clairvoyance as well perhaps), as well as having an actual degree of immortality. How does English's regen work? If Swann can manipulate and gain control over the concepts of time (which I feel like he might be able to assuming he's faster), he could perhaps take this. If we assume both have the same speed then it seems like a bit of a toss-up, but English's regen could maybe give him the advantage.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Lolipower 001 erasing English on a conceptual level would nullify his regen and immortality, just putting that out there

 

[LoliPower]

Well I was assuming Swann would be attacking English on the temporal plane since that's where he's vulnerable, while English would attack Swann on a mental/soul plane. If English's regen or powers end up giving him any sort of resistance to Swann's attack, no matter how small and assuming speed equalized (which could be reasonable considering he also has control of time, though Swann has conceptual manipulation), then that equals things a bit since Swann doesn't appear to have any resistance to mental/soul based attacks either. I guess it would depend on how good English's soul manipulation/mind control is as well. But Swann with speed advantage + messing with time on a conceptual level would give him the edge otherwise. Is it in-character though? I'd think Swann would love an eldritch abomination like English and be a bit reluctant to just erase him, heh.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Lolipower Why would it be out of character for Swann to erase English if he knew full well that he could kill it?

 

[LoliPower]

I'm not really saying that he wouldn't do it, but he'd probably be sad about it afterwards. There's also the whole thing about Swann technically being more than just one entity, which would likely make things harder for English to attack on the mental/soul plane. You can count my vote in for Swann.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Considering what Swann's proposal is, this almost certainly plays out like English vs Hussie.

 

[Conflicting_Messiah]

Since both characters are omnipresent, Lord English has the higher possibility of victory. SCP-001 can't permanently destroy English without manipulating time due to his "indestructible" time paradoxical nature. While English's double death ability is a peripheral component to his reality warping and time control. Allowing English to bypass 001's non-corporeal existence with reality warping then erase it with double death.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Conflicting Erasing English on a conceptual level would bypass that

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Except nothing suggests it'll be able to do that, since we don't even know if the beings that make up Swann's proposal are that strong compared to other things on their level. English, on the other hand, has brutalized and erased other beings on his own level, and killed the being that created him.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Why would he not be able to? And unless i'm reading Hussie's page wrong, Swann powerset is far more impressive...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Because if a character can erase something several degrees of infinity below it, we don't assume it can do the exact same thing to beings of the same level without evidence.

Hussie's page is pretty old and extremely vague. If we're being more specific, he can do everything Swann can, as he is the creator and writer of the comic who explicitly controls all aspects of everything in it (until English kills him, that is).

 

[LoliPower]

If that's the case, then you might as well equate that to 001 having no/unknown powers and is just an ambiguous Low 1-B, who naturally stomps anything 11-dimensional or below due to higher dimensionality and everything else is unknown so just ban him from matchups since no events in the SCPverse happen at that level and likely never will.

It's not like there's any other matchable characters anyway, the amount of Low 1-Bs is very reduced.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's quite literally how things of this level work, though. A 20-dimensional being showing the capacity to alter a lower-dimensional world like fiction doesn't mean it can do the same to its own world. That's how it's always worked.

Swann's proposal has all powers listed on a proven 11-D scale. The problem is you have to provide evidence that it is a 12-D being with these powers on a 12-D scale as opposed to a 12-D being with these powers on an 11-D scale.

 

[LoliPower]

Yeah I understand that, and it's a fair request. Ultimately makes the matchup pointless though.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

In that case should i just close this then...?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It can be a problem, as it often makes things difficult to properly gauge.

For instance, we know something like the Chaos Gods can use their powers on their own level of existence because they are constantly warring with each other and can create beings that share their level of existence. But if there was only, say, Tzeentch and nothing else of his level, and he only ever used his power on worlds on a lower level of existence, we'd have no way of knowing if these translated to his own level.

 

[SITHISIT]

001 has created hundreds of paradox type SCP's before. time glitches have been used many times in SCP tales and articles before. SCP is very well in the conclusion to harming English, then after that can just hax him to death

Ill go with 001

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The paradoxes that damage English are incredibly specific to him (as in, just random Time players, who can already do stuff like this, are useless against him. On top of that, the "Time" that needs to be "glitched" is beyond the rest of the multiverse's time), and even then only destroy a single Lord English. There are still essentially infinite Lord Englishes who remain unaffected.

 

[SITHISIT]

There is one lord English in front of SCP, an infinite amount of others do not matter unless that infinite amount is in front of him.

 

[LoliPower]

I agree with WeeklyBattles in that this should probably just be closed for reasons already discussed, unless we are suddenly assuming Swann's powers to work on a 12-D scale now. Though I'm not sure if we are making the same assumption about Lord English, since I noticed he is rated as "Likely" Low 1-B, and possibly higher. If a knowledgeable individual could clarify that'd be good.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

There is one lord English in front of SCP, an infinite amount of others do not matter unless that infinite amount is in front of him.

It does if you're trying to use paradoxes to actually kill him, as the Lord Englishes/Caliborns from other timelines/universes can affect this one in ways such as assuring his own existence.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Though I'm not sure if we are making the same assumption about Lord English, since I noticed he is rated as "Likely" Low 1-B, and possibly higher. If a knowledgeable individual could clarify that'd be good.

Assuming full 12-D English, they would, as he showed the ability to manifest on and damage the highest planes of MSPA's existence.

 

[LoliPower]

Assuming full 12-D English, they would, as he showed the ability to manifest on and damage the highest planes of MSPA's existence.

Sorry, you lost me there. I just mean that the MU is pointless if Swann is 12-D but without any of his powers and English is 12-D but has all of his powers. It would only make sense if they were dimensionally equivalent and with their powers. So I only see a couple outcomes without the two equivalences:

- Swann wins via higher dimensional stomp due to being decisively Low 1-B while English is "1-C, Likely Low 1-B, possibly higher" (which I don't think would be fair, holds no value as a MU and ultimately is a bit nonsensical).

- With dimensional equivalence alone, inconclusive because we don't know anything about Swann and its powers on a 12-D scale (holds no value as a MU).

So... yeah.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Sorry, you lost me there. I just mean that the MU is pointless if Swann is 12-D but without any of his powers and English is 12-D but has all of his powers. It would only make sense if they were dimensionally equivalent and with their powers. So I only see a couple outcomes without the two equivalences:

- Swann wins via higher dimensional stomp due to being decisively Low 1-B while English is "1-C, Likely Low 1-B, possibly higher" (which I don't think would be fair, holds no value as a MU and ultimately is a bit nonsensical).

- With dimensional equivalence alone, inconclusive because we don't know anything about Swann and its powers on a 12-D scale (holds no value as a MU).

So... yeah.

You asked if English was a 12-D being with powers that were only seen to be used on a lower scale or a 12-D being who demonstrated use of his powers on a 12-D scale, if I'm not mistaken. My answer was that the comic itself shows that it is indeed the latter.

 

[LoliPower]

I see. What stops English from being a solid Low 1-B and instead only rated as "likely", then?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1-C is merely the safe low-end that ignores other MSPA stories entirely and uses only Homestuck. Low 1-B assumes the MSPA stories are indeed linked and that the comic's author (who English killed) indeed also created the other MSPA stories in the canon of Homestuck, as well.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Lord English due to the fact that he has proven to be able to use his powers on beings on his own level while Swann hasn't.

 

[SITHISIT]

Jesus Christ can we stop with that argument? There's no evidence both ways. He's low hyperversal and if it's said that he can't use his powers then put it on the thread or just remove his powers.

 

[LoliPower]

Like I already said a few times, if neither are dimensionally equivalent with their powers then this is not a MU that should even be discussed/added since there is no purpose to it. Those equivalences either are made or the thread should be closed.

 

[Raian230]

I vote 001 for having conceptual manipulation (which at this level I don't think English could resist), true omnipresence as opposed to just possible omnipresence, and nigh-omniscience. With neither having any prior knoweldge of each other, 001 has the higher intelligence, so I bet he could figure out a way to utilize English's weakness to time-based glitches.

 

[LoliPower]

Even if we consider them to be at the same level, in the end, I don't know how to process this. I mean, SCP-001 Swann technically isn't supposed to be one single entity. It's many. It's a collective of plot manipulators at an unreachable level, being perceptible to a limited extent by only by a select few in-universe, and only because of its rulings. But maybe we could also look at it as a single entity, and the low-key projections witnessed through SCP-3500 and Project OverMeta are just the byproduct of a highest order of one, though the select few who went down the rabbit hole to find out just what is Swann and how it works seem to have the idea of many.

Swann is so ridiculously meta that it's really hard to quantify, that seems to be in line with the unthinkable and unexplainable that things at this level are supposed to be.

 

[Blademan9999]

I'm going or SCP-001 due to lord englishes 12-D rating relying on taking stuff from other stories.

And I don't see how Paradox space being seperate from the rest of the Multiverse justifies it being 12-D.

Finnally SCP-001 is made up of many entities.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

-001 for blades reasons